how hard is it to "Modify" a Commercial Construction Permit?

[dataman19]

I was going to bid on a few FM station Construction Permits in the upcoming Auction 91.
One of them is out of state (and I got a change to visit the site today)...
The site coordinates are in the middle of a large Rail Yard..
Talked with the rail yard supervisor - and he told me the yard has always been there - but they added the additional tracks in the field adjacent last year (what part of "always been there" am I missing here)...
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I want to bid for the permit - but am concerned whether or not I can relocate the Tower Structure 1/2 mile or so (4-6Km would be best)..
The closest on-channel is 194 Km to the north east, the closest adjacent channel for this location is over 282 Km to the south east. there is an adjacent third occupied at 307 Kw almost due west.
Moving the transmitter site would add to the separation of the on-channel, and the 1st adjacent, the third adjacent would only slightly increase in separation by about 1 km.
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But my question is::: Is it better to first win the permit, then file for a change? Or Win the auction - then file for a new Construction Permit all together?
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Any thoughts???
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Dave

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Dave: I think others will be able to give you answers that are more specific and technically correct than I can offer, but let's start off with a few questions that are raised by your question.

If it is an auction, how can it be a Construction Permit that needs to be modified. Normally when you are the successful applicant in the auction, you then have the sole opportunity to then file and application in which you would spell out your exact location, your proposed tower height, proposed antenna and proposed transmitter power.

It looks to me that it is essential that you lay out some dollars and hire a Consulting Engineer who regularly files applications and for the reason knows what the FCC will and will not allow. A Consulting Engineer probably has contacts within the FCC who can give some guidance on what would be permitted in a close-call situation.

The Consulting Engineer will also calculate exactly where you can and cannot locate the new facility so that it does not create illegal interference with existing stations, and maybe another proposed station that is also in the auction that does not currently exist.

There are some broadcasters who can make something like this a do-it-yourself without hiring a Consultant, but I suspect if you had the knowledge and skills to do that, you wouldn't be posting the question you did.

Good luck on your project.

 

[dataman19]

What you give is good advice.. And I appreciate your input. Heck - I appreciate every ones inputs that will respond....
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The FCC is auctioning allocations, and the allocations have Construction Permits attached for review.
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But the auctions "list" the coordinates that the tower is required to be built at. And the FCC is using NAD27 (1927 Survey methods and location coordinates) not the current GPS. This means that coordinates can be off, and sometimes a lot. My GPS initially showed the site over 500 feet away (until I remembered to reset for NAD27 - then I was shocked...)
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The Construction permit "is" what the FCC is auctioning off, not licenses. You get the license once you get the station built and approved..
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Not all construction permits can be built - because not everyone is going to Vacate that new house they bought - just because you have an FCC Construction Permit with coordinates in "their back yard - right next to the kids swing set - OK - so I'm over simplifying). This is why the coordinates need to be verified.
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I was out of the country for most of 2010 and no one in the office told me the auction was scheduled (maybe because they never figured a Government SATCOM Engineer/Tech would want one?). Otherwise I would have already surveyed these two permits and commented during the public open comment period. Now I am back, The Government has paid me and - wow, there is gonna be an FCC Auction!!. Gotta spend some of this cash....
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One of the permits I wanted (I was actually interested in three) is a Class A permit. The coordinates for the tower site is over 40Km from the community of service (funny point is - the legal contour for a Class A is up to 28Km at -60dbu - Max contour range - So how can this permit cover the community of service? Another question for another posts) Looking back at prior actions I see where another Class C2 applied for a Class1 upgrade. In that upgrade they requested that the C3 for this community be moved. Then another FCC petitioner 5 years later requested that this station allocation be moved again and downgraded to a Class A (the coordinates were miss calculated and the Allocation was down graded). So now we have an allocation that will require a lot of hassle to get put back to where it belongs. the original petitioner that went to C1 was also moved to a new channel later in the Upgrade Construction Permit mill (which meant that the original change was for no reason - at least in appearance. Yet the change was left in place for another petitioner's attorney to get changed again.).
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I liked the third allocation. And I like the one I found in {_deleted because I don't want you to find it..} too - but I just need to get the facts right about whether or not I can modify the Construction Permit when I get the auction award (If I Get it). If I have to build the transmitter site and then apply to move it - it isn't possible. I don't think the railroad is going to let me put a 100M tower on a flat car in the yard, and therefore I don't believe it can be built....
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Unless...
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It is possible to amend the Allocation file for a second construction permit to amend the Allocation Construction Permit that will be awarded at the end of the auction. I spent all day reading all the FCC Papers and I see where permits have been amended. But I do not see where this has been done since they went to the spectrum auctions.. I only see where Construction permits that are amending or up classing existing licenses are amended (with as many as five construction permits requested and issued - then one executed and the remainder vacated or withdrawn once the one that worked is put in place.).
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This is why I posed the question...
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Is it possible to amend the allocation Construction Permit before you build the station. Given that this is a $40K per Step Permit - I expect it to go somewhere between $120K and $240K. That is a lot of money to be spending hoping that some one will allow me to modify... And the allocation is only two states away from Arizona (where I live) which is do able for me...
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Today I filled out all the paperwork and submitted to the FCC. If I don't get an answer - I just won't bid on that auction allocation. I'll bid on the other one. But then I might, If no one else jumps on it - I might take a chance (especially if "my" bid opens and stays flat. Who knows - I might catch the flu and have to spend the whole auction in bed (this will be more interesting than reading a dictionary... LOL).
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This will be "my" first station that I build from the ground up. I have bought and sold a few, and I'm not fuzzy on that part. I understand modifications and changes - I just don't understand where the FCC stands with these "auctioned allocations, and pre-set Construction Permits". If I'm blowing unlit matches - it is because I really don't know. If I am being just gun-shy, please chime in and correct me. I don't care about the ego crap - if I'm putting to much into this - Say so.
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At least Goat Rodeo Cowboy commented. And his advice is really good advice (I have an appointment at the end of the month to talk with an attorney who specializes in this stuff. But why pay out $$Bucks$$ when a simple answer from the experts here will probably clear the air)...
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How about it gang - can it be realistically done? Or is it money down the Candy Company Black hole???
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Dave

 

[TomT]

As I understand the auction process, you are bidding for the right to submit an application for a construction permit. If you are the winning bidder, you then have a limited amount of time to pay the Commission the amount you bid, then submit your construction permit application.

1. There is no requirement that you submit an application based on the "allocation coordinates," which are often arbitrarily chosen.

2. You do need to find a site that meets the minimum spacing requirements for the class of channel,

*****OR****

3. You need to lock in a site that can be used with a directional antenna or by reducing power to achieve contour protection towards any short-spaced station PROVIDING there is a site that is "fully spaced" and theoretically buildable (e.g., not in the middle of a lake).

(Any site would, of course, have to provide 70 dbu coverage of the city of license).

A grand invested with a communications lawyer would be a worthwhile investment. The auction process is very complicated.

 

[Nostalgia]

All suggestions so far are right on. I will add my observations having been enticed by the auction process but never have jumped in.

Some allocations are "restricted" to a certain location. These are usually ones that someone had petitioned to move an allocation from one place to another with the intent to shoehorn it into a certain location to serve a certain area. Often they are short spaced to another allocation/existing station. These you can usually spot in the table of allocations or searching rulemaking petitions. Not saying these cannot be moved, but you would need to have a consulting engineer carefully map the contours for this and all adjacent channels to see how it fits. And remember, if this was an allocation that was moved, the petitioner already has a considerable amount of money invested to have done that and would be ready for the auction with deep pockets to make sure that investment doesnt fly away!

Good luck.

 

[dataman19]

Thanks gang...
..very good inputs and suggestions...
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Dave