How long did kinescopes hang around post-VTR?

[Stanislav]

Thought about this when viewing a YouTube clip that is from a color kinescope recording of Truth or Consequences, supposedly dating from 1966 (10 years after the initial rollout of VTRs).

Just how long did kinnies survive once videotape became practically ubiquitous? What were some of the last TV shows for which they were made, and which stations still continued to use them the latest? I know that quite a few kinnies that exist of later shows were made for AFRTS stations around the world, assumedly because some of those far-flung little military stations were slow to get any VT equipment. (I even recall once seeing footage of Nixon's resignation speech -- and that was from 1974! -- that clearly came from a kinescope perhaps prepared for AFRTS?) But domestically, one would think that by the mid-to-late 60s, most TV stations in the U.S., even small-market stations, had at least a VTR or two. So, just how long were kinnies still made and used?

 

[mleach]

I can remember seeing an episode of The Facts of Life that was aired in color kinescope form. It was one of the early episodes with John Lawlor as the headmaster and future movie actress Molly Ringwald and of course Charlotte Rae and the girls. This had to be around 1980 and the station that aired it one Sunday afternoon...WHAG-TV in Hagerstown, Maryland. The episode was about Tootie ( Kim Fields ) getting her hands on the other girls IQ scores.

Being a kid back then I thought it was cool to see Blair and Ms. Garrett on a Sunday afternoon but even at that age I also felt it was strange to see the Facts of Life looking well different than it was during the week. To this day I am not sure why WHAG would had aired that show on a Sunday afternoon in the first place.

 

[kirkiefan]

I can remember seeing an episode of The Facts of Life that was aired in color kinescope form. It was one of the early episodes with John Lawlor as the headmaster and future movie actress Molly Ringwald and of course Charlotte Rae and the girls. This had to be around 1980 and the station that aired it one Sunday afternoon...WHAG-TV in Hagerstown, Maryland. The episode was about Tootie ( Kim Fields ) getting her hands on the other girls IQ scores.

Being a kid back then I thought it was cool to see Blair and Ms. Garrett on a Sunday afternoon but even at that age I also felt it was strange to see the Facts of Life looking well different than it was during the week. To this day I am not sure why WHAG would had aired that show on a Sunday afternoon in the first place.

I vaguely remember any "color" kinescopes in the 1970s...would have enjoyed seeing one. Most kinnies were duped in black and white from the original color videotape so the networks can save some money. My inspired guess is that color kinescopes didn't have broadcastible quality..but for the most part neither did those "muddy looking" B&W kinnes!

However I do remember watching a mid 70s Johnny Carson Tonight Show when a kinescope clip from the NBC archives showing Johnny (when he didn't have gray hair yet) was shown for about roughly a minute or two when the show was still taped in New York. A graying Johnny remarked at the beginning that the network wanted to re-use the videotapes for other purposes and for that reason the clip was put on film...It really didin't look that bad for a color kinnie.

 

[anotherguyTN]

Are there any links to color kinescopes on You Tube?

 

[ajc_trw]

However I do remember watching a mid 70s Johnny Carson Tonight Show when a kinescope clip from the NBC archives showing Johnny (when he didn't have gray hair yet) was shown for about roughly a minute or two when the show was still taped in New York. A graying Johnny remarked at the beginning that the network wanted to re-use the videotapes for other purposes and for that reason the clip was put on film...It really didin't look that bad for a color kinnie.

How much did tape have to cost for film to be cheaper? ???

 

[oldiesfan6479]

http://www.cbsretirees.com/rem-images/page_7/image14.html

The above link, from the CBS NY retirees (engineering) website,
is to a pic of a kinescope recorder in the CBS Broadcast Center
(aka "dairy barn") circa 1973.

No indication though as to whether it was still being used.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I thought most of Carson's shows from the time he moved to LA and gained ownership of the show in the early 70's existed on tape.

 

[wbhist]

http://www.cbsretirees.com/rem-images/page_7/image14.html

The above link, from the CBS NY retirees (engineering) website, is to a pic of a kinescope recorder in the CBS Broadcast Center (aka "dairy barn") circa 1973.

No indication though as to whether it was still being used.

May very well have been. Someone put up a 1974 Good Times episode on YouTube (divvied up into parts to suit the 10-minute limit, of course), as from a black-and-white kinescope. 1974!!! There are some B&W kinnies from as late as 1976 (a few ABC Evening Newscasts from just before Barbara Walters was first teamed with Harry Reasoner), if this is of any indication.

 

[FreddyE1977]

Did AFRTS use local TV broadcast standards? (for example, at German bases, did they transmit in 25 frame/625 line PAL color?) If so this was probably done to spare the military the time and expense of a systems conversion.

 

[Stanislav]

Did AFRTS use local TV broadcast standards? (for example, at German bases, did they transmit in 25 frame/625 line PAL color?) If so this was probably done to spare the military the time and expense of a systems conversion.

AFAAIK, in most cases, they used (and probably still use) NTSC standards, so TVs owned by personnel or sent from home would work. I know I've read of cases where the indigenous folk living in the area would try to figure out ways to modify their own TVs to pick up AFRTS, because in many cases the programming was superior to what they were getting on their own channels.

I don't know if the AFRTS OTA stations that still exist (if any) will ultimately convert to DTV or not. But I'm guessing that most bases now probably have satellite TV of some sort piped in.

 

[azumanga]

I know I've read of cases where the indigenous folk living in the area would try to figure out ways to modify their own TVs to pick up AFRTS, because in many cases the programming was superior to what they were getting on their own channels.

And for that reason, some of the programming seen on AFRTS was either censored or not shown, so they wouldn't offend the locals. According to Wikipedia, AFRTS stations in Germany picked up reruns of "Hogan's Heroes" in 1974, only to drop them the following week, by request of the West German Government.

I don't know if the AFRTS OTA stations that still exist (if any) will ultimately convert to DTV or not. But I'm guessing that most bases now probably have satellite TV of some sort piped in.

Yes they do -- AFN now has 8 channels to choose from on satellite and base cable, though no HD (yet). And, unlike the days of aerial TV, the signals are scrambled, requiring a special receiver to get them.

 

[hubcity]

However I do remember watching a mid 70s Johnny Carson Tonight Show when a kinescope clip from the NBC archives showing Johnny (when he didn't have gray hair yet) was shown for about roughly a minute or two when the show was still taped in New York. A graying Johnny remarked at the beginning that the network wanted to re-use the videotapes for other purposes and for that reason the clip was put on film...It really didin't look that bad for a color kinnie.

Actually, the surviving Tonight Show from 1969 featuring Judy Carne, Bob Hope, Dean Martin and George Gobel is a color kinnie destined for AFRTS broadcast. (That was the one where Gobel, having to follow Hope and Martin, commented "Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?" as Martin flicked cigarette ash in his drink...) There's a YouTube link somewhere...

 

[radioman148]

However I do remember watching a mid 70s Johnny Carson Tonight Show when a kinescope clip from the NBC archives showing Johnny (when he didn't have gray hair yet) was shown for about roughly a minute or two when the show was still taped in New York. A graying Johnny remarked at the beginning that the network wanted to re-use the videotapes for other purposes and for that reason the clip was put on film...It really didin't look that bad for a color kinnie.

Actually, the surviving Tonight Show from 1969 featuring Judy Carne, Bob Hope, Dean Martin and George Gobel is a color kinnie destined for AFRTS broadcast. (That was the one where Gobel, having to follow Hope and Martin, commented "Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?" as Martin flicked cigarette ash in his drink...) There's a YouTube link somewhere...

That is a classic.

 

[FreddyE1977]

doesn't AFRTS also provide service to US servicemen and their families living in off-base housing? If so, wouldn't that have to be an over-the-air signal?

And if they were transmitting with US standards, didn't the set owners have a tough time getting their sets to operate on 220v/50 hz?

 

[Stanislav]

doesn't AFRTS also provide service to US servicemen and their families living in off-base housing? If so, wouldn't that have to be an over-the-air signal?

I guess if you choose to live off-base, you're outta luck, unless they do a direct satellite feed that can be picked up with a small dish.

And if they were transmitting with US standards, didn't the set owners have a tough time getting their sets to operate on 220v/50 hz?

I'm sure most, if not all military bases generate their own power, and are not tied into the local grid (for reasons of both practicality AND security), so they could easily run 110/60 there. Again, if you have the privilege of living off-base, I suppose you have to make do with what prevails, but how many really get to live off-base anyway? I think there are probably pretty strict rules for military bases not on U.S. soil -- maybe a few of the brass might live off-base, but most of the rank-and-file wouldn't.

 

[azumanga]

I guess if you choose to live off-base, you're outta luck, unless they do a direct satellite feed that can be picked up with a small dish.

As I mentioned before, AFN has a special DBS service for servicepeople lining off-base -- all they would need is a dish and a special receiver.

 

[Stanislav]

I guess if you choose to live off-base, you're outta luck, unless they do a direct satellite feed that can be picked up with a small dish.

As I mentioned before, AFN has a special DBS service for servicepeople lining off-base -- all they would need is a dish and a special receiver.

You did mention "satellite and base cable" but I didn't realize it was a DBS system -- I figured the base would have a central receiving point (dish) and then distribute (cable).

You also had mentioned 8 channels -- not much to Americans used to 75-100 or more! Are they all DoD/military run channels, or do they at least let them have CNN, ESPN, etc?

 

[azumanga]

You also had mentioned 8 channels -- not much to Americans used to 75-100 or more! Are they all DoD/military run channels, or do they at least let them have CNN, ESPN, etc?

Everything is AFN run and packaged -- no outside channels.

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Forces_Network

 

[FreddyE1977]

my brother-in-law lived off base in Germany but I guess that would not happen in most countries.