Outside of morning drive, I run two per hour. 6 minutes max, 12 per hour with a station promo option. 9am to 7p. 7-12mid we are in syndication with Nights/ Alice Cooper. The stops sets through out the day progress. No two hours are the same, the stops are at differing times. I've found that listeners are more likely to leave during a song they don't like verses a long stop set. We always set up the commercial break with a long music tease to hopefully make the long break worth while. We are never anti commercial. We are not commercial free just "more back to back music". The station focus is on "More Music". If you play the quarter hour game we always sweep at least three.
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Has anyone thought of running a spot or two, then a song, and repeat as necessary? A formula that includes "ten in a row" followed by a 6-9 minute stop set is just asking for people to tune out. It isn't fair to either the listener, or the sponsor. How would you like to pay for the #5 spot position out of 9? Do you really think anyone is listening? You might as well flush money down the toilet. Even if listeners haven't already pushed the button, they have tuned out mentally.
Back in "the good old days," if you had too many commercials for the time you had allocated to run them, you raised the price of the spot. Some would drop out, but you still made the same amount of money. Better yet, when sponsors were told that there was "no room at the inn," they wanted to be on your station even more. People with egos don't like to be told they can't have what they want. It makes them want it more. Properly handled, this can be very effective selling.
Of course, once radio was taken over by people who had names like "Venture Capital," or Investment Holdings," the ride down hill has been predictable. After all, when a station buys a device that compresses programming to allow for a couple of extra spots per hour, then the handwriting is on the wall. You reap what you sow.
Back in "the good old days," if you had too many commercials for the time you had allocated to run them, you raised the price of the spot. Some would drop out, but you still made the same amount of money. Better yet, when sponsors were told that there was "no room at the inn," they wanted to be on your station even more. People with egos don't like to be told they can't have what they want. It makes them want it more. Properly handled, this can be very effective selling.
Of course, once radio was taken over by people who had names like "Venture Capital," or Investment Holdings," the ride down hill has been predictable. After all, when a station buys a device that compresses programming to allow for a couple of extra spots per hour, then the handwriting is on the wall. You reap what you sow.
Didn't Dan O Day recently say that the first and last items are the ones that stand out ? If so, why not run 2-break stopsets ? Even as a listener, before I was involved with radio, I would not enjoy sitting through adverts - 2mins is plenty of time go get bored and flick to another station... You're only safeguard here is that you may be the only AOR/CHR/HotAC (delete as appropriate) in the market so perhaps people will sit through 6 minutes of "Mo's Tavern", "Bob's Pizza Palace" and "Larry's Used Autos" etc.
I suppose, in essence, your running/talent costs dictate how many breaks you run and how much you charge for each "slot"
I suppose, in essence, your running/talent costs dictate how many breaks you run and how much you charge for each "slot"
BuzzRadio said:
The biggest tune out is at the beginning of the stop. So if you run 12 minutes in 6 stops, there are 4 more chances for people to leave you.
[/quote]I suppose, in essence, your running/talent costs dictate how many breaks you run and how much you charge for each "slot"
[/quote]
No, rates are dictated by how many listeners you deliver to advertisers in the ages they are seeking. A station with twice the audience will charge twice the rate; a station with half the audience and double the expenses will still only get half the rate!
DavidEduardo said:
I'm sure that is well researched information, but has anyone considered why they tune out? Largely, it is because broadcasters have conditioned the audience to do so. They know there is going to be a six to ten spot stop set, so they react accordingly. It is a Pavlovian response. Perhaps the whole concept of the stop-set needs to be re-thought?
Many years ago, a very successful businessman gave me some great advice. It was simply, "Do what the other guys aren't." It has worked for me. If everyone in your market is mired in the concept of stop-sets, it might be a reasonable idea to try a more stealthy approach. That won’t be easy to do if you are taking your programming from a satellite service. You are pretty well stuck with their clock, but if you are actually originate your own programs, even if they are automated, it should be easy to try.
All fine ideas...for the most part. Just try taking these ideas to the Sales Manager/ GM! I just knocked back the number of times per hour we do breaks on remote to three. That was not warmly recieved! I was going to reduce it to two! That end of the building would have imploded!
There really is no pat answer to this question. The answer depends on several factors:
1. What's your target demo? Younger audiences react differently to long commercial sets than older audiences.
2. What's your market size? In smaller markets, local advertisers are the source of nearly all of the revenue. They're more likely to be unhappy if their spot is buried in the middle of an 8-unit stopset - and able to voice their displeasure to local management at the Kiwanis meeting.
3. What's your format? It is more upfront and dependent on active listening, or more background and dependent on passive listening? Background formats thrive on fewer, but longer stops. Foreground formats may benefit from shorter stops and live sells.
Q-107 in Toronto, a heritage Classic Rock station with very upfront personalities, has gone to several 2-minute stops per hour. They heavily promote that "music is never more than 2 minutes away". Their ratings show that the approach seems to be working for them. I'm not sure if the practice is 24/7, or if it's dayparted to AM/PM Drive, but the promos seem to indicate that it's a full-time approach.
1. What's your target demo? Younger audiences react differently to long commercial sets than older audiences.
2. What's your market size? In smaller markets, local advertisers are the source of nearly all of the revenue. They're more likely to be unhappy if their spot is buried in the middle of an 8-unit stopset - and able to voice their displeasure to local management at the Kiwanis meeting.
3. What's your format? It is more upfront and dependent on active listening, or more background and dependent on passive listening? Background formats thrive on fewer, but longer stops. Foreground formats may benefit from shorter stops and live sells.
Q-107 in Toronto, a heritage Classic Rock station with very upfront personalities, has gone to several 2-minute stops per hour. They heavily promote that "music is never more than 2 minutes away". Their ratings show that the approach seems to be working for them. I'm not sure if the practice is 24/7, or if it's dayparted to AM/PM Drive, but the promos seem to indicate that it's a full-time approach.
SirRoxalot said:
Yes, 12-24 will generally tune out, if they are using a preset capable reciever, at the start of the first spot. In the diary survey methodology, they (particularly males) will write in "98.7, 101.3, 97.5, 103.1, 106.9" in a time period in the diary... they move indiscriminately between stations.
So the more stops you have, the more times you are forcing the young demos to leave.
I've been there... in places like Lake City, FL. The average advertiser does not pay any attention to the mechanics of radio.
Actually, the reason talk formats still do well despite the old demos: they run 18 to 20 minutes of spots an hour, and cluster just like FM... except they have more 5 to 6 minute stops.
Not many stations are doing live sells anymore, for a variety of legal and other reasons.
That's a concept they stole from some of our Australian friends at Nova FM, where it has been used for a decade or more. In cases like this, the more limited competition in Australia (and Canad), the 150,000 watt power of primary FMs in Oz, etc., make some comparisons like this less than perfect.
I'm sure that is well researched information, but has anyone considered why they tune out? Largely, it is because broadcasters have conditioned the audience to do so. They know there is going to be a six to ten spot stop set, so they react accordingly. It is a Pavlovian response. Perhaps the whole concept of the stop-set needs to be re-thought? [/quote]
The main reason for tune-out is a bad song, not stopsets. Listeners pretty much accept free terrestrial radio comes at the price of enduring commercials.
Of course, David is absolutely right. How dare you think of trying something different or innovative that might separate you from your competition.
After all, radio is performing so well, especially with younger demos, so don't even THINK of trying any new approaches.
Personally, I'm in favor of changing to audio blipverts and foregoing all other forms of advertising.
After all, radio is performing so well, especially with younger demos, so don't even THINK of trying any new approaches.
Personally, I'm in favor of changing to audio blipverts and foregoing all other forms of advertising.
SirRoxalot said:
I'm not sure we want to get into the Max Headroom version, but the other day, I was listening to a HD-2 channel in Dallas, "The Strip." It's pretty good, if Frank, Dean and the Rat Pack are your cup of tea. There seems to be a total lack of spot clutter, except for one which might qualify as a "blipvert." It was for Star Power, which is a high end retailer of home theater products. I haven't lived in Dallas in about 8 years, but this was presented so powerfully, that it brought back a lot of remembrances of the store, and an urge to visit it the next time I'm in town. If I'd had time, I would have headed over there right then.
This particular spot couldn’t have lasted over 10 seconds. It was only five or six words, but it was really well done. I'll bet that it works on other people besides me. The trick was it engaged me, rather than made me mentally tune out as so many blathering car dealer commercials can do.
Does anybody remember Stan Freberg? He is still with us. In his prime, he was a genius at involving the audience in advertising. You loved to hear his stuff. It was great, always fresh, innovated and entertaining. That seems to be remarkably lacking these days.
Chuck said:
This brings up an excellent point. Imagine if radio actually put a focus on commercial QUALITY, regardless of quantity. The idea that something radio-related could have the same draw as the Superbowl commercial phenomenon is beyond laughable. But what if it weren't?
Of course, to have that happen, we'd have to stop letting salespeople write their own copy, actually create real ad campaigns, and consider using someone other than the local weekender to voice everything...
Roger That said:
Or, stop making some very talent production people spend time on voice tracking nights, weekends, and holdays...
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