how much delay?

[japman]

Was listening to the Magic pre-game Wed. evening on 95.9FM, and as I hit the edge of their coverage I flipped over to WDBO ... was surprised to hear about a 6 second delay on DBO. Strange the flagship station would delay more than the affiliates.

Somewhat on that same topic, my Brighthouse cable digital channels used to have a 3-4 second delay from the analog Ii'd notice when running from family room to the tiny set in the bedroom and back) ... suddenly that's flipped and the analog is "older" than the digital .. wonder what changed?

 

[Parttimer]

DBO is using a delay, the smaller affililiate stations often don't have the euipment.

Why the cable has changed is that standard def signal is now coming down the line in digital format and has to be converted to annalog. That's how they are making room for all the new HD channels. One standard def analog can be converted into 3 HDs or 5 standard def digital channels because the digital signals can be compressed.

 

[japman]

I'd have to believe the Magic Network itself (ala WDBO) would run a delay, it's live programming and I'm sure they're careful not to let a spurious fan yell something out in the background [for example, the Florida Gator football feed is about 20 seconds delayed]. Just thought it was odd DBO added additional delay.

As for HD video compression, latency is always at minimum the time for the Group of Pictures since you do your compression by double cycling between key frames. Guess I didn't realize B.H.'s "analog' really isn't analog any longer.

 

[Kabrich]

The delay is because HD Radio delay the analog audio to match up with the delay in coverting the analog to digital that the IBOC system uses. It has nothing to do with censoring comments.

The affiliate does not broadcast HD Radio so it does not have the IBOC delay.

 

[japman]

Digitizing and compressing audio doesn't take seconds, it's on the order of milliseconds. I'm guessing Magic Radio Network affiliates get their feed digital too, most likely compressed to some level (what's the standard now, satellite or internet?). It's way too good to be coming over phone lines.

 

[larnov]

Was listening to the Magic pre-game Wed. evening on 95.9FM, and as I hit the edge of their coverage I flipped over to WDBO ... was surprised to hear about a 6 second delay on DBO. Strange the flagship station would delay more than the affiliates.

Somewhat on that same topic, my Brighthouse cable digital channels used to have a 3-4 second delay from the analog Ii'd notice when running from family room to the tiny set in the bedroom and back) ... suddenly that's flipped and the analog is "older" than the digital .. wonder what changed?

My Digital Box in one room is about 2 seconds behind my HD DVR box in a 2nd rom, and they are all behind my Standard non box TV in 3rd guest room

 

[engineer65]

I'd have to believe the Magic Network itself (ala WDBO) would run a delay, it's live programming and I'm sure they're careful not to let a spurious fan yell something out in the background [for example, the Florida Gator football feed is about 20 seconds delayed]. Just thought it was odd DBO added additional delay.

As for HD video compression, latency is always at minimum the time for the Group of Pictures since you do your compression by double cycling between key frames. Guess I didn't realize B.H.'s "analog' really isn't analog any longer.

The Magic radio network (as far as I know from working with them for 7 years) only used the delay during the post game show for callers. WDBO (again...as far as I know from working there for 10 years) did not run the games in delay, but maybe that has changed since I left.

WDBO is on WHTQ's HD2 channel and from what I understand it sounds great.

 

[Kabrich]

The Magic radio network (as far as I know from working with them for 7 years) only used the delay during the post game show for callers. WDBO (again...as far as I know from working there for 10 years) did not run the games in delay, but maybe that has changed since I left.

WDBO is on WHTQ's HD2 channel and from what I understand it sounds great.

Again, its the IBOC delay on WDBO which people are hearing. The IBOC delay also delays the ANALOG NonHD Signal so that the 2 signals match up seemlessly.

 

[engineer65]

The Magic radio network (as far as I know from working with them for 7 years) only used the delay during the post game show for callers. WDBO (again...as far as I know from working there for 10 years) did not run the games in delay, but maybe that has changed since I left.

WDBO is on WHTQ's HD2 channel and from what I understand it sounds great.

Again, its the IBOC delay on WDBO which people are hearing. The IBOC delay also delays the ANALOG NonHD Signal so that the 2 signals match up seemlessly.

Is WDBO running in HD now? When did they start?

 

[engineer65]

The Magic radio network (as far as I know from working with them for 7 years) only used the delay during the post game show for callers. WDBO (again...as far as I know from working there for 10 years) did not run the games in delay, but maybe that has changed since I left.

WDBO is on WHTQ's HD2 channel and from what I understand it sounds great.

Again, its the IBOC delay on WDBO which people are hearing. The IBOC delay also delays the ANALOG NonHD Signal so that the 2 signals match up seemlessly.

I am just curious because I assisted in installing the HD system, and was there for the testing through the Christmas holiday. We were told after the initial testing that WDBO would not be running in HD at that time, and on Ibiquity's web site they do not list WDBO as a station runnig in HD. WDBO is listed on WHTQ's HD2 channel though.

Has the status of WDBO running in HD changed? I ask because I am very interested in hearing it when I come back to visit.

 

[KE4KLS_Radio]

WDBO and some other AM Cox Media properties had HD installed at one time but don't use it due to interference and other issues with HD-AM. On the other hand, they are heard on on their sister station, 96.5 WHTQ on HD-2 and sound excellent.

 

[Kabrich]

The Magic radio network (as far as I know from working with them for 7 years) only used the delay during the post game show for callers. WDBO (again...as far as I know from working there for 10 years) did not run the games in delay, but maybe that has changed since I left.

WDBO is on WHTQ's HD2 channel and from what I understand it sounds great.

Again, its the IBOC delay on WDBO which people are hearing. The IBOC delay also delays the ANALOG NonHD Signal so that the 2 signals match up seemlessly.

I am just curious because I assisted in installing the HD system, and was there for the testing through the Christmas holiday. We were told after the initial testing that WDBO would not be running in HD at that time, and on Ibiquity's web site they do not list WDBO as a station runnig in HD. WDBO is listed on WHTQ's HD2 channel though.

Has the status of WDBO running in HD changed? I ask because I am very interested in hearing it when I come back to visit.

You are correct. I checked and the Cox AMs have it turned off again at the moment. Ibiquity has an update which they think will solve the problem with wideband AM Radios, but the Harris Exciters will not accept it at the moment. When that is corrected, they will try it out and see if the interference is minimized.

If the audio was running through digital audio path that the IBOC system uses, it would be delayed to match the delay of the AM Digital Feed. As the obscenity delay is not usually on during Sports, this still is the most likely cause of the delay. Of course, there could always have been an operator error.

 

[radiomaniac]

DBO is not running IBOC, there is no need for it, WHTQ HD2. They are running a Gates 5 TX. As far as I know, Disney is the only ones doing AM HD.

engineer65 did you you work for Cox 7 or 10 years?

 

[davideduardo]

If the audio was running through digital audio path that the IBOC system uses, it would be delayed to match the delay of the AM Digital Feed. As the obscenity delay is not usually on during Sports, this still is the most likely cause of the delay. Of course, there could always have been an operator error.

Other causes of delay between the live studio output can be digital processing, which, depending on the processor, can introduce several seconds of delay as well as some digital STL systems which also have delay or the equivalent of buffering for error and dropout correction.

 

[Kabrich]

Other causes of delay between the live studio output can be digital processing, which, depending on the processor, can introduce several seconds of delay as well as some digital STL systems which also have delay or the equivalent of buffering for error and dropout correction.

No digital processor used on the air besides what is done with IBOC to delay the analog to match the digital signal or the indecency safeguards introduces several seconds of delay. All of it is done faster than a second.

 

[engineer65]

No digital processor used on the air besides what is done with IBOC to delay the analog to match the digital signal or the indecency safeguards introduces several seconds of delay. All of it is done faster than a second.
[/quote]

Again....WDBO is NOT running in HD. Not yet.

 

[Kabrich]

Again....WDBO is NOT running in HD. Not yet.

I believe if you will re-read reply #11 above from 5/08, we've already established that fact.

You are aware that the analog audio is delayed roughly 8 seconds to match the digital output of IBOC?

Furthermore, though it CAN be done in the IBOC exciter, most good engineers DO NOT do it there - because if the IBOC exciter locks up, then you loose your Analog Signal as well.

The newer audio processors have an option to delay the Analog Audio @ those units prior to being sent to the IBOC exciter or the analog exciter. As these also has the ability to lockup, some engineers are using other methods - such as a simple Eventide unit to delay Analog audio roughly 8 seconds to match the IBOC Digital as these units just do not lock up.

Your own earlier post stated:

I am just curious because I assisted in installing the HD system, and was there for the testing through the Christmas holiday.

So you agree and admit that that IBOC was installed and tested - whether its on now or not.

Because of the lockup issues and for redundancy, for the most part, Cox tries to use other methods for delaying analog audio to match the IBOC Audio at their stations. If the system was installed and tested, as you say, then the Analog Audio was in fact delayed roughly 8 seconds to match up with the digital system - at least in December of 2009.

Do you have first hand knowledge from Steve Fluker that the delay system, whichever method he decided to employee @ WDBO in December of 2009, has in fact been taken out of the AM Analog Audio Chain after it was installed and operational last Christmas?

 

[engineer65]

Again....WDBO is NOT running in HD. Not yet.

I believe if you will re-read reply #11 above from 5/08, we've already established that fact.

You are aware that the analog audio is delayed roughly 8 seconds to match the digital output of IBOC?

Furthermore, though it CAN be done in the IBOC exciter, most good engineers DO NOT do it there - because if the IBOC exciter locks up, then you loose your Analog Signal as well.

The newer audio processors have an option to delay the Analog Audio @ those units prior to being sent to the IBOC exciter or the analog exciter. As these also has the ability to lockup, some engineers are using other methods - such as a simple Eventide unit to delay Analog audio roughly 8 seconds to match the IBOC Digital as these units just do not lock up.

Your own earlier post stated:

I am just curious because I assisted in installing the HD system, and was there for the testing through the Christmas holiday.

So you agree and admit that that IBOC was installed and tested - whether its on now or not.

Because of the lockup issues and for redundancy, for the most part, Cox tries to use other methods for delaying analog audio to match the IBOC Audio at their stations. If the system was installed and tested, as you say, then the Analog Audio was in fact delayed roughly 8 seconds to match up with the digital system - at least in December of 2009.

Do you have first hand knowledge from Steve Fluker that the delay system, whichever method he decided to employee @ WDBO in December of 2009, has in fact been taken out of the AM Analog Audio Chain after it was installed and operational last Christmas?

I am aware that analog audio is delayed for blending purposes. (I monitor the stations I work for on a weekly basis to make sure the analog and digital audio are blending properly) For that key reason stations can not monitor their air signals. WDBO still monitors their air signal because there is no delay in place due to the fact that they do not run in HD, so there is no reason to delay the air signal.

As for the station "running in HD for the Christmas holiday", I never said what year it was done.


So much for the reading comprehension lesson. : )