How reliable is Radio-Locator?

[danikayser84]

From what I've seen, Radio-Locator's reception maps are very hit-or-miss: some examples include WKBE-FM actually reaching to southern Rensselaer and Albany counties despite being outside the blue contour, and WQSH-FM reaching quite a bit beyond the blue in the north and south (first-adjacents get in the way in the east and west). However, WAJZ-FM is very spot-on and is a true fringe signal (barely receivable) in the blue contour

As for the empty frequency finder, it's failed me a couple of times (such as picking up WLZW Utica in parts of Albany and Rensselaer counties on 98.7 FM, which RL says is an empty frequency IIRC) and thinking 100.3 is an empty frequency when it's not (WKBE-FM reaches much further than the map implies)... so I don't usually trust that either

 

[cyberdad]

Given the scope of the undertaking, I think Radio-Locator overall does a great job. Sure it's not error-proof. But it's still reasonably accurate more often than not, and it's a great resource. And for the most casual users....it's FREE.

 

[danikayser84]

There's also the issue of it not updating its database frequently... it still lists WKLI-FM as "Magic 100.9" and WZMR as "104.9 The Edge" even though both stations have changed formats almost a year ago (but it's always been like that, from what I've seen )

 

[fangio28]

check out radiotime.com for formats.
None of these sites are near 100%....

 

[cd637299]

As far as free sites, I suppose R-L is the best it can be.

cd

 

[jd]

As noted here a few times you can't rely on Radio-Locator for up to date information on Canadian AM stations since so many of them have moved to FM. It's not entirely their fault, though, since many "long gone" stations in Canada still show up in the FCC database, too. Probably the best example is CHYR 710 and its former nighttime companion CHYR7 730 in Leamington, Ontario. Both disappeared from the Detroit/Windsor area AM radio dial in 1994 but the listings (and patterns) can still be found on Radio-Locator.

 

[fangio28]

For AM, then buy the NRC log, 31st edition....it's very much up-to-date....1994 and still listed???? omg

 

[gar hi]

Radio Locator is fun to use and a good general guide but the only thing I notice is that some of the 'fringe' daytime lines are a little too conservative in their estimates.

There are a couple of Miami area stations that can be heard in parts of central Florida which go beyond their listed fringe limit. For example, I was surprised to find a barely audible trace of 880 WZAB up at Daytona Beach during the day.

Radio Locator has been very helpful in deciding which stations I try to hear from across the Gulf in the daytime.

 

[swfl]

I have found Radio-Locator to be reliable over all although not perfect but that is to be expected of most sites. Their biggest fault is that at times they do fall behind on format changes etc.

I travel several times a year and use them to plan on what radio stations that I will listen to while driving. I not only look for formats that I like but I usually look for the stronger stations so I know which ones will last the longest while driving. You can hold on to a good 100,000 watt FM for almost 3 hours if you catch it right.

On their pages they even state the following; "This image is intended solely for entertainment purposes. Radio-Locator makes no claims as to the accuracy of this information, nor towards its suitability for any intended purpose".

Just use it as it is intended, as a quick reference.

 

[LibertyNT]

It depends on which stations really, they tend to do best wit the big Class C stations, where the little Class A's can be neglected.
(ex. KXEZ hasnt been oldies in nearly 5 years, and
hasn't been called EZ 92.1 for at least 10 or more years,
yet it' still listed as such.)

 

[BRNout]

R-L is better in flatland areas than it is in hilly terrain. It seems to take larger mountain ranges into account (though there are always little openings that no website could account for); the more hilly areas tend to be minimized as far as the R-L maps go. Yes, there are exceptions in that large western cities' terrain issues are handled pretty well, but in the hilly east or south-central regions, the topography is often downplayed.

R-L's AM maps are generally better than their FM ones, mainly for that reason.

 

[fybush]

I'm not exactly sure what algorithm R-L uses when it takes terrain into account on its FM maps, but it's certainly not doing a full-scale Longley-Rice plot, the sort you'd want to see if you really needed to see where a signal does and doesn't go. I'm pretty sure R-L's plots don't take knife-edge diffraction into effect, and that makes a big difference in any area where there's any terrain to speak of; it's probably the biggest reason why the original poster's R-L search results don't quite match with reality.

I find R-L useful for a few things: getting a quick read on how an AM station's coverage is affected by ground conductivity (its model is pretty good for that) and getting a very rough sense of an FM station's reach.

It is limited in other areas by the nature of its source material. Because it depends on the FCC database, its listings of Canadian stations, especially AM, should be viewed as "what US stations are required to protect," not "what's actually on the air north of the border." And because it doesn't take interference from other stations into account, its coverage maps - especially nighttime AM - don't paint a full picture of whether or not an AM station will actually be listenable at any given location.

 

[spunker88]

It doesnt have a good index of Canadian stations so its not reliable for those on the border of Canada. It will say you have a clear frequency, and there can be a 100kw Canadian FM border blaster on it.

 

[Icangelp]

For AM, then buy the NRC log, 31st edition....it's very much up-to-date....1994 and still listed???? omg

It is a monumental effort to put something together like the NRC AM Radio Log, and unfortunately volunteers (& DX'ers) are few and far between these days. However, the 31st edition has been updated for 10/11.

BTW, the 21st (and last?) addition of the FM Atlas is out and available through the NRC.

 

[BRNout]

It will say you have a clear frequency, and there can be a 100kw Canadian FM border blaster on it.

No, not exactly. For one thing, there are no 100 kw Canadian "border blasters" in existence. The CRTC limits wattage of Canadian AMs to 50 kw, just as is the case here in the US. Secondly, few Canadian AMs target a US audience and those that may do so are not able to advertise it (CKWW Windsor comes to mind).

Lastly, R-L seems to catch the big 50 kw Canadian signals pretty well, though some that they still list are now off the air. It's the smaller regional and local stations that they come up short with.

Perhaps you're thinking of Mexican AMs, a lot of which are not captured by R-L. Although those would be the ones from interior Mexico; the "border blasters" are usually represented. As an example, look at listings for San Diego and note that XETRA and others from Tijuana are included; even the maps seem as accurate as those for US stations.

 

[jd]

Good points, but he was talking about FM stations, which is the basis for the Radio-Locator "unused frequencies" list. There are a number of 100kW FM's in Canada and a few that run considerably more than that (two in Winnepeg, one in London, Ontario come to mind). But it's doubtful that they could be considered "FM border blasters" in the true sense.

 

[fangio28]

thread starter danikayser84...any relation to danikapatrick7? lol

 

[BRNout]

Good points, but he was talking about FM stations, which is the basis for the Radio-Locator "unused frequencies" list. There are a number of 100kW FM's in Canada and a few that run considerably more than that (two in Winnepeg, one in London, Ontario come to mind). But it's doubtful that they could be considered "FM border blasters" in the true sense.

True, I missed the FM. But you'll note that there are very few FM's near the US border that are 100 kw - those are generally in places farther into Canada.

I can't think of a Canadian FM that I'd refer to as a "Border Blaster", though many of the Toronto and Montreal FMs used to get out very well into the USA before the FCC short spaced many of them with a spate of fairly recent co-channel and 1st adjacent allocations. No respect!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Canada allows directional allotments, while the US uses a distance separation based allotment system. Powerful, and even less powerful FMs in Canada near the border are often directional, often away from the US. While the Canadian FMs near the border in the Northeast United States areas were often limited in the past as Class Bs to 50 kW, many have been reclassified as Class C1, allowing 100 kW maximum ERP in a particular direction(s). And while CFPL-FM is more powerful than 100 kW, it is directional away from some US stations. Often the directional information is not in the US database used for Radio Locator, making them appear to be nondirectional. Canadian databases show a maximum and average ERP for each FM, which also must be taken into consideration. This is true also for directional Canadian TVs. For years, this led to confusion in publications like WRTH as to what the maximum ERP really was.

 

[fybush]

Which, again, comes back to one of the problems with radio-locator: it's using data from the FCC's CDBS database for a purpose for which that data was never intended.

The purpose of the Canadian data in CDBS is to tell US broadcasters what they need to be protecting at or across the border. It is not intended to be an accurate reflection of what is, or is not, actually on the air outside the borders of the United States.

I can't stress that point highly enough. The FCC doesn't care what callsign a Canadian station is using or if it's been silent for 20 years. If it's required to be protected, its technical data appears in CDBS.

The authoritative source for data on what is (or is supposed to be) actually on the air in Canada is, unsurprisingly, Canadian - Industry Canada's BASERAD database. Unlike CDBS, there's no online search tool that provides direct access to BASERAD. The very useful (and free!) RECNet search tools do, however, provide a way to search the Canadian database.

http://cdbs.recnet.net:8080/fmq.php?

You have to select "in Canada Database" from the pull-down menu to get the Canadian information.

The Canadian database contains US listings as well, but again, those are there to tell Canadian broadcasters what they have to protect, and so it's not an accurate depiction of what's really on the air in the US, either.