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How to deal with an FCC Visit (non-pirate FM)

H

hangbush

Guest
In response to the Part 15 transmitter thread.


The reality of what happens when the FCC visits varies, depending on where you live. Yes, I have been visited and I know others who have as well.

Here's how it usually goes down:

FCC arrives in your neighborhood responding to a complaint by a neighbor or broadcaster. They use their direction finding gear to determine, as best they can, where the signal is coming from. Despite what they would like you to believe, this isn't an exact science. They can figure out within a house or two, where the signal is coming from. A lot depends on power level and how far your antenna is from a public road or alley.

But they will do their best to identify the transmit antenna by visual verification. Quite often, there is no effort to disguise the antenna, and that makes it quite simple for the FCC to find once they know it's within a couple of hundred feet.

If your antenna is indoors or disguised as a vent pipe or tree branch or whatever, then they're probably stuck. They need probable cause to come rapping on your door and demanding that you turn it off. If they're knocking on the wrong door, it's a problem for them on a lot of levels. What they're likely to do is say "We're looking for an unauthorized transmitter in the neighborhood. What can you tell us?" If you voice sounds a lot like the one on the unauthorized transmitter, you're already done.

Best course, unless you're a hard-core pirate, is to come clean. You can try asking them to help you decrease the range so you're legal. If they're feeling friendly, they might just tell you how much you need to turn it down. More likely, they'll just tell you to turn it off and not broadcast again at the illegal level they just measured. But if you feel brave, ask them how many dB your signal was over the limit. They might tell you, but they don't have to.

Also, at the Oregon Field Office, they use a Field Intensity Meter with a Horizontally polarized antenna. They look for the 250 mV contour 3 meters from the outside wall of the building, rather than 3 meters from the antenna. It's more generous, and it means they don't need a search warrant to monitor you. Also, it's much more likely to stand up in court because the real value is always going to be higher than their readings. I'm willing to bet this technique is SOP at all offices just so the FCC attorneys can use the same training from case to case.

If you're caught red-handed and you're really not trying to be a pirate, just cooperate with them. First time is a warning unless you've really managed to get somebody's goat at the local radio station. Just turn it off and you'll probably be okay.

But it's possible that you'll get a notice of inquiry from the agents that visited you. That's most likely if you were really running way too much power, or you didn't cooperate with them very well. If you get a letter from the FCC after they have visited, always reply. Give your side of the story in writing and ask them to cut you some slack. DO NOT IGNORE AN FCC NOTICE.

They don't have a lot of resources, so they really love to pursue cases where there was an actual violation and the perp didn't bother to reply. Those are a slam dunk, and an easy $11,000 fine.

But unless you've been visited already and told to shut the transmitter off, it's highly unlikely you're going to face the full wrath of the FCC. They just don't have the time to bust everybody, and they really don't want to.

So the ground rules here are:

Don't interfere with anybody, no matter what your power level.
Be polite with the FCC. If you're not pirating, just turn it off and tell them you're sorry, you didn't know you were causing a problem.
Reply to any written notices promptly. Give your side of the story.

If you cooperate, there's very little chance of punishment. If you want to fight the FCC, then you need more information than you're going to get here.

As a side note, at least in Portland they use Horizontal polarization. So if you transmit only Vertical, you're going to be able to run more power without having the sniffer call you a pirate. And because of the way they measure, a higher antenna with a higher power and less downward radiation could still meet the FCC 250 uV at 3 meters test, as measured on the ground, which is where they're measuring.

The real world lesson is to put your rooftop antenna in the middle of your house, as high as it can be mounted. The 250 uV measurement will be made 3 meters from the outside wall with the strongest signal. They're not about to climb out on your roof with an FM FIM, I can almost guarantee that. Those who try that stunt generally don't survive the fall. (And certainly not the winter.)
 
> In response to the Part 15 transmitter thread.
>
>
> The reality of what happens when the FCC visits varies,
> depending on where you live. Yes, I have been visited and I
> know others who have as well.
>
> Here's how it usually goes down:
>
> FCC arrives in your neighborhood responding to a complaint
> by a neighbor or broadcaster. They use their direction
> finding gear to determine, as best they can, where the
> signal is coming from. Despite what they would like you to
> believe, this isn't an exact science. They can figure out
> within a house or two, where the signal is coming from. A
> lot depends on power level and how far your antenna is from
> a public road or alley.
>
> But they will do their best to identify the transmit antenna
> by visual verification. Quite often, there is no effort to
> disguise the antenna, and that makes it quite simple for the
> FCC to find once they know it's within a couple of hundred
> feet.
>
> If your antenna is indoors or disguised as a vent pipe or
> tree branch or whatever, then they're probably stuck. They
> need probable cause to come rapping on your door and
> demanding that you turn it off. If they're knocking on the
> wrong door, it's a problem for them on a lot of levels. What
> they're likely to do is say "We're looking for an
> unauthorized transmitter in the neighborhood. What can you
> tell us?" If you voice sounds a lot like the one on the
> unauthorized transmitter, you're already done.
>
> Best course, unless you're a hard-core pirate, is to come
> clean. You can try asking them to help you decrease the
> range so you're legal. If they're feeling friendly, they
> might just tell you how much you need to turn it down. More
> likely, they'll just tell you to turn it off and not
> broadcast again at the illegal level they just measured. But
> if you feel brave, ask them how many dB your signal was over
> the limit. They might tell you, but they don't have to.
>
> Also, at the Oregon Field Office, they use a Field Intensity
> Meter with a Horizontally polarized antenna. They look for
> the 250 mV contour 3 meters from the outside wall of the
> building, rather than 3 meters from the antenna. It's more
> generous, and it means they don't need a search warrant to
> monitor you. Also, it's much more likely to stand up in
> court because the real value is always going to be higher
> than their readings. I'm willing to bet this technique is
> SOP at all offices just so the FCC attorneys can use the
> same training from case to case.
>
> If you're caught red-handed and you're really not trying to
> be a pirate, just cooperate with them. First time is a
> warning unless you've really managed to get somebody's goat
> at the local radio station. Just turn it off and you'll
> probably be okay.
>
> But it's possible that you'll get a notice of inquiry from
> the agents that visited you. That's most likely if you were
> really running way too much power, or you didn't cooperate
> with them very well. If you get a letter from the FCC after
> they have visited, always reply. Give your side of the story
> in writing and ask them to cut you some slack. DO NOT IGNORE
> AN FCC NOTICE.
>
> They don't have a lot of resources, so they really love to
> pursue cases where there was an actual violation and the
> perp didn't bother to reply. Those are a slam dunk, and an
> easy $11,000 fine.
>
> But unless you've been visited already and told to shut the
> transmitter off, it's highly unlikely you're going to face
> the full wrath of the FCC. They just don't have the time to
> bust everybody, and they really don't want to.
>
> So the ground rules here are:
>
> Don't interfere with anybody, no matter what your power
> level.
> Be polite with the FCC. If you're not pirating, just turn it
> off and tell them you're sorry, you didn't know you were
> causing a problem.
> Reply to any written notices promptly. Give your side of the
> story.
>
> If you cooperate, there's very little chance of punishment.
> If you want to fight the FCC, then you need more information
> than you're going to get here.
>
> As a side note, at least in Portland they use Horizontal
> polarization. So if you transmit only Vertical, you're going
> to be able to run more power without having the sniffer call
> you a pirate. And because of the way they measure, a higher
> antenna with a higher power and less downward radiation
> could still meet the FCC 250 uV at 3 meters test, as
> measured on the ground, which is where they're measuring.
>
> The real world lesson is to put your rooftop antenna in the
> middle of your house, as high as it can be mounted. The 250
> uV measurement will be made 3 meters from the outside wall
> with the strongest signal. They're not about to climb out on
> your roof with an FM FIM, I can almost guarantee that. Those
> who try that stunt generally don't survive the fall. (And
> certainly not the winter.)
>


Good read!

But has this 'really' happened to you or someone you know personally?

We've all read stories about the raids and FCC visits from the FCC websites/blogs... and it's all good info to base our awareness.

I'd like specific answers on whether the FCC ask anyone to tone down the FM transmitter if it's at one watt or less or do they specifically ask you to take down the transmiiter or show them hard evidence that the transmitter is at the power levels they want to see...

It's tempting to put up a 1 watt FM transmitter 100 feet high in the hopes that the equipment the FCC uses will only read 250 uV/ at whatever meters the agent on the ground can read... suppose he registers 251-300 uv/ meter... is that enough to justify taking down the transmitter or shutting you down?

Most of the reads on the FCC website indicates the bust was for broadcasters having anywhere fron 1000 uv/ 30 meters or figures like 10,000 uv/m, this is obviously not what we are asking here or intending to do, most of these FM transmitters seem to be 100-500 tranmitters or amplifiers...

I'd ask the FCC agent about whether I would get busted, or at what power levels they would pay a vist to my house... but this would be inviting trouble... but if he said they wouldn't pay a visit if I used up to 5 watts and there was no interference, I'd do it, but the risk is when the local corporate broadcaster sensed competition and called the FCC on me!

Radiopilot
 
> Good read!
>
> But has this 'really' happened to you or someone you know
> personally?
>

If I lied to you the first time, does it help if I swear it's true the second time?
 
> > Good read!
> >
> > But has this 'really' happened to you or someone you know
> > personally?
> >
>
> If I lied to you the first time, does it help if I swear
> it's true the second time?
>


No harm intended.. the reply was just a general reply to all that either have had a visit... Not looking to break any rules or go pirate... just looking for the answers so one is well prepared.. I may not even consider the FM side at all, unless I can get a license for it.

Radiopilot
 
I guess the real lesson here is to read about what happend with Mikeo and , and also realize that it's not just people running transmitters for fun/hobby/whatever that are also part of the <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-260867A1.html>problem.
Here's a direct link to the page on the FCC's website that lists all the various notices and such: <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/>http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/</a><P ID="signature">______________
If it's the "greatest music ever made," why is it <a target="_blank" href=http://kisn910.com/>relegated to AM</a> or online only?</P>
 
> I guess the real lesson here is to read about what happend
> with Mikeo and Energy 98, and also realize that it's not
> just people running transmitters for fun/hobby/whatever that
> are also part of the problem.
> Here's a direct link to the page on the FCC's website that
> lists all the various notices and such:
> http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/
>


This is exactly what I was saying the FCC will be upset over... come on 1719 times the the legal part15 output!

These and other stories of the FCC closing down stations are the reasons I'm asking these questions....

So even at 85 times the legal part15 levels they take notice....

I'd rather talk it over with an FCC agent and get the feel for it, I'll be in the Atlanta area next week for business purposes and will stop by the FCC field office. I'll discuss the real situation... do's , don't and what if's...

My main focus will be the power levels as opposed to the field strength. Will I get a visit if my transmitter is at 100mw or at what power levels they consider to be blatant violations.

Hopefully if the meet takes place we can put these questions to rest, I'll post my findings, whatever they may be.

Radiopilot
 
> > I guess the real lesson here is to read about what happend
>
> > with Mikeo and Energy 98, and also realize that it's not
> > just people running transmitters for fun/hobby/whatever
> that
> > are also part of the problem.
> > Here's a direct link to the page on the FCC's website that
>
> > lists all the various notices and such:
> > http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/
> >
>
>
> This is exactly what I was saying the FCC will be upset
> over... come on 1719 times the the legal part15 output!
>
> These and other stories of the FCC closing down stations are
> the reasons I'm asking these questions....
>
> So even at 85 times the legal part15 levels they take
> notice....
>
> I'd rather talk it over with an FCC agent and get the feel
> for it, I'll be in the Atlanta area next week for business
> purposes and will stop by the FCC field office. I'll discuss
> the real situation... do's , don't and what if's...
>
> My main focus will be the power levels as opposed to the
> field strength. Will I get a visit if my transmitter is at
> 100mw or at what power levels they consider to be blatant
> violations.
>
> Hopefully if the meet takes place we can put these questions
> to rest, I'll post my findings, whatever they may be.
>
> Radiopilot
>
You could broadcast at 50,000 watts, but your antenna must be really bad and your house must be well-shielded.<P ID="signature">______________
17-year-old radio geek
Location: Princeton Junction, NJ
AIM: KewlDude471</P>
 
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