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How to kill an industry

Salty Dog said:
Of course he didn't do it alone any more than Henry Ford did it alone or Thomas Edison did it alone.

Those are two poor examples because both Ford and Edison were almost solely responsible for their respective inventions. BTW, Ford did not invent the automobile. That had already been done by Daimler-Benz in the 1890's. He perfected the assembly line which made cars aFORDable to the masses.

Salty Dog said:
No he didn't design and build it himself but it took a visionary to see its potential and bet so much money on it.

You could say exactly the same thing about venture capitalists but no one would call them visionaries.
 
landtuna said:
While it is true Apple is very successful using this model imagine how much more successful they might have been had they competed openly.

I seem to spend a good percentage of my time maintaining the 7 or 8 PCs running in my household. I spend zero time maintaining the 4 iPhones and 3 iPads.

"Open source" means "open to problems and incompatibilities."
 
landtuna said:
I understand what you are saying but consider the dozens of iPOD models - each one only slightly different than the last. Great marketing but poor philanthropy. Like $150 jeans. Only the label is definitive.

The iPods (which are very near the end of their life cycle anyway) never had all that many concurrent models. The first ones had little hard drives... they gradually came down in size and the drives were replaced with flash memory.

Complaining about "too many models" in an era of individualized entertainment is not realistic. Look at the dozens of models offered at any one time by the cellular providers. Or the number of models at your nearby Toyota dealer. Or the number of laptops at any significant retailer.
 
DavidEduardo said:
landtuna said:
I understand what you are saying but consider the dozens of iPOD models - each one only slightly different than the last. Great marketing but poor philanthropy. Like $150 jeans. Only the label is definitive.

The iPods (which are very near the end of their life cycle anyway) never had all that many concurrent models. The first ones had little hard drives... they gradually came down in size and the drives were replaced with flash memory.

Complaining about "too many models" in an era of individualized entertainment is not realistic. Look at the dozens of models offered at any one time by the cellular providers. Or the number of models at your nearby Toyota dealer. Or the number of laptops at any significant retailer.

I'll complain then that no laptops really offer the great big sound available from the boom boxes of the 80s.

Many products have tried to be exclusive of other products.
I like the story about microgroove recordings, where CBS (Paley?) wanted to sell microgroove records.
When asked for specifics, he stated something to the effect that whatever Columbia was to produce
it HAD to be incompatible somehow with the existing RCA 45 RPM microgroove 7" standard, which was
taking off big time in the late 1940s.

Kodak tried to develop exclusive film sizes, but that did not stop other companies from producing the same sizes, or
instant loading cassettes like the 126 and 110 film formats.

Auto manufacturers to ths day maintain non-interchangable wheel-bolt patterns.

Printer manufacturers, like Kodak, take a loss on hardware and decide the profits will be in consumables,
packaged in proprietary sizes. While I was working for Heidlelberg, they made a BIG decision somewhere in the late 1990s to follow the high priced consumables route. The customers simply started excercising more choice, and
Heidelberg only got more business from those without the ability to discern.





When the stated goal of "best results" is in conflict with "best profits", something must give way.
Corporations usually decide in the direction of profits.
The 110 instamatic cameras had such small negatives that the results were uniformly disappointing,
regardless of the fact that Kodak intially offered about 5-6 different models with many different levels of control for
photographers of all levels of experience and needs.
 
landtuna said:
Those are two poor examples because both Ford and Edison were almost solely responsible for their respective inventions.

You must have read different biographies than I did.

Edison is credited for contributing to various inventions, including the phonograph, the kinetoscope, the dictaphone, radio, the electric lamp (in particular the incandescent light bulb), the autographic printer, and the tattoo machine. He also greatly improved the telephone by inventing the carbon microphone. Most of these inventions were not completely original but improvements of earlier inventions. Many of his patented inventions were actually made by his employees, but Edison did not share credit with his employees.[2] However, one of Edison's major innovations was the first industrial research and development lab, which was built in Menlo Park and West Orange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Edison_patents
 
DavidEduardo said:
I seem to spend a good percentage of my time maintaining the 7 or 8 PCs running in my household. I spend zero time maintaining the 4 iPhones and 3 iPads.

I too run both systems and since Windows 7, I have no more problem with my PC than I do my Apple electronics. As good as they are, Apple products are not perfect or else there wouldn't be MacFixit. http://reviews.cnet.com/macfixit/
 
DavidEduardo said:
I seem to spend a good percentage of my time maintaining the 7 or 8 PCs running in my household. I spend zero time maintaining the 4 iPhones and 3 iPads.

Apples to oranges comparison. The PC has magnitudes more functionality than either iDevice.

DavidEduardo said:
"Open source" means "open to problems and incompatibilities."

Software-wise, it has been my 20+ year experience that open source has fewer bugs and exposures than the majority of proprietary software. Because most open source software is either freeware or sold at very low cost (compared with proprietary software) the developers tend to "do it right" and do not work to artificial revenue-dependent deadlines. I, personally, have had many more issues with Microsoft software than any other builder but that seems to be the result of their scope and business model rather than anything else. There are plenty of other companies who build software for the X86 world who do not have Microsoft's issues.

In hardwareland there can be issues depending upon the ability of the manufacturer to adequately test multiple versions and pair those up with appropriate drivers. But the industry has seemed to have reached a point where this isn't a major issue. Given that Apple products are closed-hood, if course there will be fewer problems (and functionality).

Personally, I like being able to modify the original product to suit my unique needs and am willing to take responsibility if something goes awry in the process. I realize not everyone is that way. I currently operate with an 8-year old PC which has been updated and modified (hardware and software) to keep it current. The cost has been minimal. I could not have done that with an Apple product.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Complaining about "too many models" in an era of individualized entertainment is not realistic. Look at the dozens of models offered at any one time by the cellular providers. Or the number of models at your nearby Toyota dealer. Or the number of laptops at any significant retailer.

The examples you suggest are right on target and are part of the same "complaint" as I stated. Too many models with too few upgrades/functions which usually produce a nightmare of support issues for the owner. Cellular phone manufacturers tend to churn the market with new models as a means of revenue (got to have the latest and greatest syndrome). The great majority of phones in any one category are virtually identical in functionality.

The automobile comparison is not as there is very little overlap within one manufacturer. The Big Three found out the hard way that re-badging virtually identical models is not the most efficient way to market or support their products. And competing with yourself is even more foolish given modern competition. Of course, cars are not phones and the difference in cost usually precludes most of us from swapping constantly to get the latest small innovation.
 
landtuna said:
Software-wise, it has been my 20+ year experience that open source has fewer bugs and exposures than the majority of proprietary software. Because most open source software is either freeware or sold at very low cost (compared with proprietary software) the developers tend to "do it right" and do not work to artificial revenue-dependent deadlines.

But I find that, other than some utilities and things like Firefox, productivity software is costly and always lacking something that is "still under development."

I've been through a dozen scanning / scanned image processing options before coming up with one that works and does almost exactly what I want. Of course, it's not the downloadable $40 generalist shareware program, but ran around $6000 and gets about 12 updates a year, including a couple I requested.

Sure CC Cleaner and many utilities are free, and others are nominally priced, but few satisfy the needs of more demanding use. And with the PC I still have to do a regular round of driver update checks otherwise the updates on one program kill the older ones. And a fresh install of Win 7 every 5 or 6 months is vital... all these being things that make, to many users, the Apple devices with controllable closed architectures much more appealing.

In hardwareland there can be issues depending upon the ability of the manufacturer to adequately test multiple versions and pair those up with appropriate drivers. But the industry has seemed to have reached a point where this isn't a major issue.

Let's see.. Windows 7 has how many versions? Home, Professional and Ultra, and then there are 32 bit and 64 bit versions of those.... things like that, from the offset, make PCs inherently more confusing to the consumer who wants to use a computer the same way they use a TV or refrigerator.

Given that Apple products are closed-hood, if course there will be fewer problems (and functionality).

For the vast majority of tasks, the Apple's simplicity, interface and attractive designs (any laptop I would consider buying is always a dull black brick) are to be preferred. In some areas, like using devices with multiple languages, Apple is far ahead. My iPad is set up to tap its way from Spanish to English to Portuguese keyboards... on a PC, changing language is tedious and changing keyboards is a significant process.

Personally, I like being able to modify the original product to suit my unique needs and am willing to take responsibility if something goes awry in the process. I realize not everyone is that way.

Most people are not that way.

I currently operate with an 8-year old PC which has been updated and modified (hardware and software) to keep it current. The cost has been minimal. I could not have done that with an Apple product.

But you could have seemlessly upgraded to better hardware. I'm already anticipating Ivy Bridge, which means the tower gets a new MB, and maybe faster memory. My remaining SATA I devices will likely have to be replaced with SATA II ones, although my boot SSD is already SATA II... and I go through things like that at least once a year. Again, how many people want to lie on their side on the floor with a shop light installing a new drive or MoBo, going through the still-scarry process of flashing BIOS, etc?

This is sort of like radio. For the moment, radio is simple to use, but limited to a few varieties that someone else picked for you. The moment that devices make picking streams and webcasts that simple and that ubiquitous, yet customizable to my taste, the single-use device called a "radio" will be gone. But for much of the market, ease of use is the key...
 
DavidEduardo said:
But I find that, other than some utilities and things like Firefox, productivity software is costly and always lacking something that is "still under development."

Most industries are in a continuous improvement mode which means improvements and functionality are always being addressed. For the professional user in specific circumstances this may be important. For most of us it isn't. For example, I have been using Office 2003 since it was introduced and have never needed a functionality upgrade. I am still using XP Pro because it has all the functionality (and stability) I require. Although there have been numerous upgrades to both these products I do not need them so I refuse to upgrade and thereby save myself considerable effort.

DavidEduardo said:
I've been through a dozen scanning / scanned image processing options before coming up with one that works and does almost exactly what I want. Of course, it's not the downloadable $40 generalist shareware program, but ran around $6000 and gets about 12 updates a year, including a couple I requested.

There is a difference between "normal" user and "professional" user and it is evident you are in the latter category by this illustration. I have paid for very little software over the years using instead freeware or shareware. It is interesting to note that the most problem-prone software I own is one I purchased from a well-known software manufacturer.

DavidEduardo said:
Sure CC Cleaner and many utilities are free, and others are nominally priced, but few satisfy the needs of more demanding use. And with the PC I still have to do a regular round of driver update checks otherwise the updates on one program kill the older ones. And a fresh install of Win 7 every 5 or 6 months is vital... all these being things that make, to many users, the Apple devices with controllable closed architectures much more appealing.

You are obviously in a strata far beyond the average computer user. I cannot remember the last time I was required to "do a round of driver updates" and most updates, such as Flash, arrive on my PC straight from the manufacturer. Updating takes two button pushes and about 10 seconds. And the only time I have ever re-installed my OS was when I upgraded. With proper maintenance procedures in place you should never have to re-install the OS (which, I admit, is a real PITA on a Windows-based machine).

DavidEduardo said:
Let's see.. Windows 7 has how many versions? Home, Professional and Ultra, and then there are 32 bit and 64 bit versions of those.... things like that, from the offset, make PCs inherently more confusing to the consumer who wants to use a computer the same way they use a TV or refrigerator.

The average PC user has but one choice - 32 or 64 bit depending upon his hardware. The Home version should be the default. Professional users, or their IT departments, are the only ones having to choose from the more functional versions of Windows. This is primarily a cost choice and gives the purchaser some flexibility and price options - something Apple does not provide.

DavidEduardo said:
For the vast majority of tasks, the Apple's simplicity, interface and attractive designs (any laptop I would consider buying is always a dull black brick) are to be preferred. In some areas, like using devices with multiple languages, Apple is far ahead. My iPad is set up to tap its way from Spanish to English to Portuguese keyboards... on a PC, changing language is tedious and changing keyboards is a significant process.

My PC sits on my desk and is large enough so that I can work inside if necessary but small enough not to overpower my limited desktop. I do not use laptops. Functionality means much more to me than an attractive design. Although I do not normally function in multiple languages I haven't found the changing to be a big deal. Once initial set up there is practically no effort.

DavidEduardo said:
But you could have seemlessly upgraded to better hardware. I'm already anticipating Ivy Bridge, which means the tower gets a new MB, and maybe faster memory. My remaining SATA I devices will likely have to be replaced with SATA II ones, although my boot SSD is already SATA II... and I go through things like that at least once a year. Again, how many people want to lie on their side on the floor with a shop light installing a new drive or MoBo, going through the still-scarry process of flashing BIOS, etc?

The initial speed of my PC has been adequate for use for almost a decade. If I wanted to upgrade say to full-out gaming from ordinary desktop use I would replace the entire machine. Otherwise, I have upgraded the drives (although the original IDE drive is still installed and still works perfectly) and added more memory (again, the flexibility was built in by the manufacturer). Several add-in cards have been installed to provide specialized functionality (such as a TV tuner) and enough capacity exists within the box that I don't need to upgrade the MoBo. Parts and pieces only. And I have never needed to flash my BIOS.

DavidEduardo said:
This is sort of like radio. For the moment, radio is simple to use, but limited to a few varieties that someone else picked for you. The moment that devices make picking streams and webcasts that simple and that ubiquitous, yet customizable to my taste, the single-use device called a "radio" will be gone. But for much of the market, ease of use is the key...

I don't disagree with you that ease of use is in Apple's favor although a ton of users continue using the PC without maintenance issues. Given that Apple began as an educational tool it is normal that 'simplistic' outranks 'flexibility'. There is obviously a market for both and Apple has been successful in its niche.
 
DavidEduardo said:
I spend zero time maintaining the 4 iPhones and 3 iPads.

Be careful of which you speak. The following is a post from another board related to issues with an iPad upgrade:

I just got bitten by this upgrade and am posting this so with any luck those of you with an Ipad can avoid the same mistake I just made with the upgrade.

I have an iPad2. Yesterday, while attempting a backup of my ipad, I was informed that a new version of Itunes was available, so I downloaded it, installed it etc. I was then informed that a new "OS" was available "iOS5" so I downloaded that too.

It then asked if I'd like to back up and install the new OS, which I did. Low and behold, it didn't back up anything, just installed the new OS and deleted ALL my videos and photos ( of my new Grandson) AND wiped out most of my applications, even purchased ones! I've now spent a total of 10+ hours rebuilding my ipad.

After an hour on the phone with Apple, they basically said, "we don't know what to tell you, sorry about that"...........a&&hats!

So word of caution for those inclined to upgrade to the new OS. Back it up first and foremost. Also, there is a utility on the web called iexplorer that you can download here http://www.macroplant.com/iexplorer/ that treats your ipad like a USB stick. You can run this app and copy all your images off onto a hard drive "just in case" the backup doesn't work.........which in my case it didn't, hence all my images are gone.............FOREVER!

Hope this helps someone not go through the same thing I went through...............my SO is ready to hang me for losing those images and videos! Oyyyyyyyy.
 
landtuna said:
So word of caution for those inclined to upgrade to the new OS. Back it up first and foremost. Also, there is a utility on the web called iexplorer that you can download here http://www.macroplant.com/iexplorer/ that treats your ipad like a USB stick. You can run this app and copy all your images off onto a hard drive "just in case" the backup doesn't work.........which in my case it didn't, hence all my images are gone.............FOREVER!

Another advantage of Android phones. Plug them into the USB port on a PC, and they become just another disk drive. You do have to enable it on the phone, but that's trivial.
 
I consider myself a power user, and do a LOT with PCs, and I've never had to reload Windows 7. David, I don't know what you're doing with your computers, but I've yet to have a driver update cause the kind of problems that you describe. If it did, I'd simply roll it back. Worst case scenario would be re-imaging the drive, which is MUCH easier under Windows 7 than any previous version.

The lack of software, lack of backward compatibility, lack of aftermarket support, and closed nature of Apple negate any "simplicity" for me. Windows works for me, and I have far more applications available than Mac. iPad is a nice toy, but hardly a replacement for a good laptop, let alone a well-appointed desktop.
 
More OT but relevant...

@ landtuna and anyone looking for more FREE backup options:

I am really happy with the features that DropBox provides; meaning anytime I make a change within Dropbox (simply another folder in 'My Documents') I have three other computers that catch the change(s) within their corresponding files. I can also access this through the web on any other web enabled device.

Click this and take a look around: http://db.tt/ieUKIH7
 
Re: More OT but relevant...

TomZ said:
@ landtuna and anyone looking for more FREE backup options:

I am really happy with the features that DropBox provides; meaning anytime I make a change within Dropbox (simply another folder in 'My Documents') I have three other computers that catch the change(s) within their corresponding files. I can also access this through the web on any other web enabled device.

Click this and take a look around: http://db.tt/ieUKIH7

This technology looks a lot like the Sybase Replication Server of a database product of 15 years ago.

I don't have multiple connected devices so don't have the need for replication. I also wasn't one of the people looking for a new backup scheme but for the price nothing can touch my two Firewire-connected external disk drives. I use a free backup program from Seagate which can back up in file or image format. Makes it very easy to restore if the need arises.

Both external drives are portable and one can fit in your shirt pocket for easy use on remote machines or transfer of huge files and at much faster speeds than uploading to the 'Net. Encrypting the data means I don't share any info across the 'Net or on somebody else's server.
 
Or you could just take your own little station in the middle of nowhere down, by following people of whom you are jealous and then announcing that you have lots of money from your married boyfriend to help you to outdo those you follow around, thus perfecting your career.
 
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