How to make Christian radio a failure

[vchimpanzee]

Some of the most eloquent posts on this site (that I have seen) are on the Eastern North Carolina board.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,153717.0.html

In summary, it's about a town big enough to have four radio stations. All are Christian (and similar in style to each other), and all are doing poorly.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Some of the most eloquent posts on this site (that I have seen) are on the Eastern North Carolina board.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,153717.0.html

In summary, it's about a town big enough to have four radio stations. All are Christian (and similar in style to each other), and all are doing poorly.

I don't think he goes quite far enough. It sounds like typical Christian radio - playing it safe, dollar for hollar, sectarian stuff, dominated by one man (or more generally by one denomination) sectarianism. None of these inspire many listeners, and none of them are effective tools of the gospel.

I've recently been accused of trying to re-define CCM. Excuse me, but I think it is the praise and worship people who have been doing the re-defining. They've taken stuff that makes pretty good church, and tried to make it the only acceptable flavor of CCM. This may work for the saved, but to unsaved people - the music is unprofessional sounding and boring. Sure, a mega church may have a great sounding choir, but to the unsaved it is still a church choir. The members of which are not professional musicians. The inspiration of the Holy Spirit that we as believers might appreciate is lost on the secular world. Plonk goes the pushbutton - they are back listening to Lady GaGa - because she has an incredibly good voice and her songs are catchy and upbeat. NOT worshipful and plodding.

One station like that out of four in a market might make sense, there is no shortage of options. AFR, Moody, CC, etc. But when all four Christian stations are like that - forget it. They are dividing up an already small pie and nobody will make a go of it. Since they are not up to date, their audience will literally die off in a few years, and they will be brokered Asian, NPR, or whoever will buy the property at ten cents on the dollar.

A lot has been said about "professionalism". Professionalism in music is mandatory - nobody wants to hear suckish music no matter how spiritual it is. But - professionalism on the air is NOT a preacher "annoitned by God" controlling every word on the air, or saying every word on the air. Especially if they have an affectation in their voice like some I have heard. Too long - radio of all genres have equated professionalism with perfection on the air. A few rough edges make things interesting - and absolute perfection equates only with boredom. I did a show with some interns, and it had some rough edges. It also garnered a massive audience because I gave the audience what it wanted, not what some revererd Bigbottom wanted them to hear. If a mistake went out on the air, we laughed - and the audience laughed with us. We weren't perfect, but we were sure effective, and I have the call slips to prove it - prayer requests, rededications, salvations, prevented suicides, the phone never stopped ringing - until our show was over. Then the phone lines went silent completely, as the semi-melodious strains of boring praise and worship music came out of the cold, lifeless automation system. Ichabod - we walked out as the station merely consumed electricity for an audience that never tuned in to PW.

 

[radiocph]

I went over and read that thread. These stations in Wilson, NC seem to be more like vanity stations for the owners than
anything else, really. One or two of them are not making enough money/receiving enough donations to stay on the air for long....

 

[CCMDJ]

[/quote]


I've recently been accused of trying to re-define CCM. Excuse me, but I think it is the praise and worship people who have been doing the re-defining.

[/quote]

Bruce,

Since I'm the person who accused you of this, allow me to reply.

You're doing it again. You're taking your definition of what Praise and Worship is (based on something that just about nobody working in Christian radio would agree with) and tarring all CCM with the same brush.

We KNOW you have an opinion, and you've made it painfully clear. But please stop the broad-brush approach and accusations. I don't believe it's as simple as you want to make it. And those of us who work in the ministry of CCM every day understand that.

Yes, there are some CCM stations that simply preach to the choir. Yes, a well-executed 12-24 targeted Christian music format would reach kids better than an Adult CCM station (or talk/teaching station) ever could. And yes, there are a few CCM stations around the country in some major markets that are collectively impacting millions of listeners. Some CCM reaches some listeners, while other styles reach different listeners. Some P&W does the same as does Rock, Alternative, Hip Hop, and a half-dozen other styles.

It's NOT all P&W, it's not all bad, it's not all good. Some stations are more evangelistic than others. Some stations are intended to help build the body by preaching to the choir. I contend that God has room for both.

Those stations that are in it for the right reasons, God will use. Those that aren't, God will discipline and correct.

Ultimately it's not the style of the music that converts anybody. God does the conversion. He doesn't need any music to do that (but I'm glad He chooses to use it just the same.) Style is like bait, and some fish like some bait better than others. But just because I don't like a certain kind of worm, doesn't mean that there's not a fish that will gobble it up in a heartbeat!

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I think CCMDJ said it well. Some stations are more evangelistic than others. Some stations are intended to help build the body by preaching to the choir. I contend that God has room for both.

Those stations that are in it for the right reasons, God will use. Those that aren't, God will discipline and correct.

Ultimately it's not the style of the music that converts anybody. God does the conversion. He doesn't need any music to do that (but I'm glad He chooses to use it just the same.) Style is like bait, and some fish like some bait better than others. But just because I don't like a certain kind of worm, doesn't mean that there's not a fish that will gobble it up in a heartbeat!

God can use any style of music he chooses from a Bach fugue (remember J.S.Bach was a Lutheran who wrote church music of that time), to Gregorian Chants, to Hymns, to Jazz Masses, to Praise/Worship, Folk, Rock, Rap, Heavy Metal, Country Gospel, Urban Gospel, etc. Bottom line is having the right reasons for your radio station to be on the air (serving Christ and the Great Commission to evangelize the lost to make disciples, and to serve, feed, and encourage the people of God). If the station has a heart to serve Christ, God will bring people to your spot on the radio dial. God does the saving. We get the privledge and honor of being used by him to reach the lost and to minister to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Here is a bit adapted from Radio World's article on "How the Mighty Fall" - as it applies to radio in general and Christian radio specifically:

(1) Hubris born of success: "I've run the station this way for years, I see no reason to change."
(2) Undisciplined Pursuit of More: "We don't need to do anything to upset our big donors, just give them more of what they want."
(3) Denial of Risk and Peril: "It is safe to minister to those who are already saved, it is riskier to go after the unsaved / young people because we don't know if they will donate as much money. Its all about the donations."
(4) Grasping for Salvation: "Well I'M in the will of the LORD and you AREN'T. I'M SAVED and you AREN'T. I'VE got the frequency and you DON'T, so I can do anything I want with it, and there is NOTHING you can do about it."
(5) Capitulation to Irrelevance or Death: "We don't care that kids and young adults don't listen, we are too busy preaching to the choir, the future be damned because we are OK right now."

 

[R.D.P.]

To Mr. Bruce Carter,

I share in your sentiments. I understand where you're coming from. Fixing to celebrate my 39th birthday, next April. I've seen many changes take place in radio, over these years and most of it is not for the better.

I can remember a time when Moody and AFR was catering to more music and less talk. That's not the case any longer though. I'm not too thrilled about that. I've often heard it said that the youth are the future. If we don't reach out to this future now, then we'll lose them when they get our age.

I don't want to see a whole generation of people being avoided because of prevailing attitudes that say "We do for the adults only, because they're the ones that give the most." What a shame and a disgrace that is. When a younger person hears that statement, they will avoid those who make it and not associate with them at all.

That's my reason for wanting to build this new radio station. I want to reach out to our future and help lead them to the saving knowledge of Jesus, in a way that'll relate to them.

R.D.P. <><

 

[justalurker]

Here is a bit adapted from Radio World's article on "How the Mighty Fall" - as it applies to radio in general and Christian radio specifically:

(1) Hubris born of success: "I've run the station this way for years, I see no reason to change."
(2) Undisciplined Pursuit of More: "We don't need to do anything to upset our big donors, just give them more of what they want."
(3) Denial of Risk and Peril: "It is safe to minister to those who are already saved, it is riskier to go after the unsaved / young people because we don't know if they will donate as much money. Its all about the donations."
(4) Grasping for Salvation: "Well I'M in the will of the LORD and you AREN'T. I'M SAVED and you AREN'T. I'VE got the frequency and you DON'T, so I can do anything I want with it, and there is NOTHING you can do about it."
(5) Capitulation to Irrelevance or Death: "We don't care that kids and young adults don't listen, we are too busy preaching to the choir, the future be damned because we are OK right now."

And of course any radio station not being operated to Mr Carter's standards is a failure as a Christian station.
How many stations are you running, Mr Carter? How many stations are you on?

It seems most of Mr Carter's posts fall into the "Hubris born of failure" category. He's not successful so damn anyone who is.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

There may be an aspect of this you may be over looking. Many markets have only one CCM station. Maybe only one Christian station. In Wilmington, we have only WXHL which is CCM that is top 40 CCM aimed at the younger audience. Yet, they may not be as radical as you'd prefer. But something to consider, if you are the ONLY CCM station in town, you may want to be more towards the middle in terms of musical style so as to appeal to the largest audience possible (this is a blue county - liberal not the Bible Belt so MY GUESS IS maybe even more limited than a Bible Belt Red County radio market. My guess is, that is what WXHL has done. I'm not into the rockier CCM and frankly prefer the mellow CCM more. WXHL doesn't play anything older than 5 years old, most is loud with plenty of beat. So they may not play much in either extreme, but they play what blesses the largest audience, the group in the middle. Unlike secular formats where you might have a couple AC stations where their play list has differences, or a couple of Oldies stations, where one plays 50'-60's and the other plays 60-80's, etc. When you're the ONLY game in town you may use a wider approach to reach as many people as possible. An example, IF I had the only Oldies station in town, I'd play mainly 60's-70's with limited amounts of disco, some oh wow songs from late 50's and some format friendly songs from early 80's. This way I reached the largest amount of Oldies listeners. Same with most CCM's as they probably are the only game in town, generally.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

It seems most of Mr Carter's posts fall into the "Hubris born of failure" category. He's not successful so damn anyone who is.

What failure? I had phones ringing off the walls compared to the normal Praise and Worship and dollar for hollar format. The only reason I wasn't on more hours is that I am no good at marketing. I couldn't sell bottled water in the Sahara, much less air time. I used my own money to purchase the air time. Salvations, rededications, answered prayers, prevented suicides were my pay, and my measure of success. All the praise goes to the Lord Jesus Christ and the power of His Holy Spirit for all of it. My only prayer before going on the air was that I could get out of the way, and He would speak through me and the music I played. And speak He did to literally thousands of kids.

The only reason why I stopped doing Christian radio was that I moved to another city. The station didn't have an inclination to continue to reach out to kids, so they went back to total obscurity in the ratings. No ratings = no donations = no potential salvations = eventually off the air.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

There may be an aspect of this you may be over looking.

If a market only has one CCM station, I can see your logic. However, I think they could accommodate more diverse audiences by allowing people to come in to do shows targeted at different groups, so nobody is left out. Far too often, it is the kids who get the short end of the stick - NOT because there isn't an audience there, it is because somebody in station management might be afraid of grandma pharisee who writes big checks every month getting offended.

That is really not the case anyway - I logged about 7000 calls. At least that is how many call slips I have left - I am sure not every call got logged. Out of those 7000, only three were negative. One I recall because I was in the reception area. One of the anti-Christian rock types called the little 14 year old girl we had answering the phone with a string of profanities that would make a riverboat gambler blush. The poor little thing took it all in stride until I rescued her and dealt with the jerk. I was also there when the second of the three complaints came in, an old lady who was civil enough. I persuaded her to keep listening to the show, just for the lyrics. She did, and called back later to apologize, telling me that she in no way liked the style of the music, but could not deny the Christlike nature of it and the lyrics she had heard. I cannot document a single case where somebody quit supporting the station because we were on the air one night playing Christian rock music.

Actually - I think those who insult me on this board are mis-informed as to the nature of the mission field. Their argument isn't with me, though, it is with a saintly old Christian missionary who was too feeble to go on. His wisdom - imparted to the church that supported him for decades - was that in his experience, witnessing to people his advanced age and holding crusades, was that he had maybe one chance in 750,000 of a conversion to Christ. For people in their 30's, the statistic was about one in 35,000. But - for a teenager - maybe one chance in 3 of persuading them to become a Christian. Bottom line - there IS no real ministry to adults other than feeding the sheep. The only chance the church has of large numbers of converts is with the kids. That is where the money and time needs to be spent, because if we don't - they will be much harder to reach as adults. Insult me some more on this board, you know who you are - I don't care. I don't answer to you, I answer to the Lord Jesus Christ. And if you are going to insult me over that statement that our only real ministry should be to kids - you are insulting the saintly old missionary who educated me to the reality, a man who gave far more to the cause of Christ with a life of service than any of us ever will. So - go ahead and insult him, and his wisdom. He has long since gone on to his reward, so your insults to his wisdom are moot.

Keep feeding those sheep, they are getting fatter and fatter. I think Amy Grant had a song about them early in her career. Kids - ah who needs them, they dress funny, talk funny, and don't fit in to the churchy mold. Let them go to hell, nobody will notice ----

 

[MikefromDelaware]

The Christian station I worked at during the 1980's (WNNN) did that on Saturday night from 9pm-1am. The jock played all the "heavier" more radical sounds that didn't air during the week. It was a popular show with youth, no spots as I recall, other than PSA's and promos for the other shows, the dollar a hollar preachers, etc. (it was a commercial CCM station). That station eventually was sold (today a secular urban station - WJKS) due to another CCM station coming to our market, a non-comm based in a church that plays for the middle audience. WXHL also call themselves "The Reach FM" and today have a boat load of repeaters all over the middle Atlantic states and points north and south.

The problem Bruce is radio is not free. So if you can't get enough donors to pay to keep a program on the air or enough spots to cover it ( or enough to cover it from excess spots or money from other shows), eventually, basic economics kicks in and the show gets dumped.

Even the ever present gigantic NPR (National Public Radio) does that. With the economic down turn, a number of NPR shows were scrapped due to lack of financial support from those shows listeners. So it isn't only with CCM or Christian radio, but any station, commerical or non-comm. Market forces will play a part in determining what gets on the radio.

A suggestion for you. If you want to do another show like you did in that other city. Go and find corporate donors (or whatever it's called in the non-comm world these days) for your show, and then go pitch your idea to a station. If you have someone willing to underwrite your show, My Guess is you'll get on.

 

[gr8oldies]

Bruce, I understand your comittment to winning converts from the youth is sincere. But isn't there a verse that says there will be rejoicing in heaven over one who sees the light? It certainly hasn't been unheard of in my life for adults who have been away from the church for years to have a life event and seek that solace. Often it's the birth of a child where a couple may think it would be nice to have their children have some religious background. Or someone going through a divorce who finds a DivorceCare ministry. Now these folks may not become "instant fundamentalists" but at least if no one is screaming at them, they may be open to it eventually. I have a friend who cares for a child of a Hindu couple. This couple is sincere Hindus, but the wife listens to the Fish out of Cleveland. I don't know that you try to run up numbers by getting teens to covert to evangelicalism and ignore everyone else.

I realize I have a background where I'm not a big believer in salvation being a one-time transaction, where at 7:59pm on August 1st, I got saved. I was a non-believer, but now I'm a fundamentalist. I tend to believe it to be more a process, but sometimes that process can take a lifetime.

 

[justalurker]

Actually - I think those who insult me on this board are mis-informed as to the nature of the mission field.

Actually, I believe that YOU are mis-informed as to the nature of the mission field. It isn't just young folks that need the Lord.
Show some respect for our ministry and you may earn respect for yours. Otherwise, you reap what you sow.

We're just trying to catch the ones you missed - show them the light and encourage them to pass it on.
And we'll keep doing that, thankyouverymuch, even if you don't respect our mission field.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I realize I have a background where I'm not a big believer in salvation being a one-time transaction, where at 7:59pm on August 1st, I got saved. I was a non-believer, but now I'm a fundamentalist. I tend to believe it to be more a process, but sometimes that process can take a lifetime.

Preach on, Brother.

I once managed a "Christian" radio station up in your part of the world. And what I learned from that experience was that you can sell time to those churches who are into this "one time transaction" theology, and you will starve to death trying to get the rest of the churches to give you the time of day. I found the other churches wanting to throw rocks at me because when their people listened to our programs, they sometimes wanted to tell the ordained clergy that they now knew more theology than they did... after all, "I've been listening to the radio."

This can be a tough world for a pastor in a church that does not follow Orthodox, Evangelical, or Fundamental teachings. Nobody likes to be told they are dumber than a radio. <G>

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Both gr8oldies and Goat Rodeo Cowboy make interesting points. Dumber than a radio, I like that. I too believe it is a process, that hopefully you continue to grow with as you live your walk of faith in the Christ. Most preachers I've ever heard on the radio fit in to what Goat Rodeo Cowboy said (actually I can think of only one national religious radio show that didn't preach the one time salvation experience, etc. (Pastor Ken Klaus of the Lutheran Hour). There probably are others, I've just not heard their broadcasts. My guess is the EWTN Catholic Radio also probably doesn't preach the one time salvation message either (we don't have a Catholic radio station in our market, so I can't say for sure, but I've watched some EWTN TV and I've never heard that sort of preaching.

If you tune in to a local church service on your local radio station (probably on a secular station rather than a "Christian" station) Sunday morning that has a Catholic, Lutheran, or Episcolpalian preacher, pastor, or priest you'd not hear the one time salvation message, but other than that, I'd have to say the evangelical-fundementalist type churches do seem to have a lock on preaching on Christian radio.

Goat Rodeo's comment makes me wonder if the "mainline denominations" avoid Christian radio or have in the past have been shunned by Christian radio not wanting their doctrines being aired at their station so now just don't want to be bothered and have found other ways to get their message out. An example from my past. When I was in the Air Force stationed in Alaska, there was and still is a 50,000w AM Christian radio station (KJNP which stands for King Jesus North Pole), now also with an FM and TV too, located in NorthPole, Alaska (about 15 miles East of Fairbanks). Anyhow, back in 1972 I applied for a part time job there and when the PD realized I was a Catholic, he nicely told me that I wasn't qualified for the job as I was a Catholic and wasn't saved, etc, etc so they couldn't offer me a job at their station. So MY GUESS is that even IF a Catholic, Lutheran or Episcolalian church wanted to buy air time at KJNP, they'd have been refused. I guess my question is, how often did this happen in the past? Does it still happen today? I've heard from some pastors in my area, that our only CCM station only airs the radio station's home church's preaching shows, other local churches, even Evangelical-Fundementalists are turned down. They'll air national shows like Focus on the Family, etc, but no local preaching except their pastor. As a non-comm, I guess you can do that.

My Guess is, a commerical station can't refuse anyone's ads or buying air time type shows. That may only apply to Political ads, I'm not sure. I do remember listening to WDAC Lancaster, PA ( a Christian station ) during the 2004 election where they aired political ads for John Kerry, and prior to the ad and after the ad, they'd air a disclamor saying that the ad didn't reflect the stations views, but they were required by law to allow all candidates to buy ad time on WDAC. I remember thinking, why did the Kerry campaign waste their money buying time on a conservative Republican oriented religious station when there were plenty of other Lancaster radio stations to buy air time. However, I'll bet their ads did get some notice and attention, thus the disclamors from WDAC. So if Kerry's campaign wanted to be noticed, they succeeded.

 

[gr8oldies]

A commercial station can refuse advertising; if they don't want a strip club on their "family friendly" A/C format they don't have to. Apparently, in the 50s and 60s you would hear more of the mainline churches on the air on Sunday mornings because stations could count that time toward public service requirements. This time had to be free. The FCC ruled later that a paid religious program could still count toward that requirement, and the evangelical (after all, the ones who are vested in spreading the word) churches bought a lot of the time, and the mainliners didn't want to spend the bucks. Of course there have been examples of preachers, some legit, some charlatans, who bought their way onto the airwaves (sometimes on cross-border stations). Herbert W. Armstrong comes to mind as one of the early pioneers in buying time.

On the local level, when I worked at my first station in 1975, we were in a heavily Catholic community with a lot of mainline denominational churches and a handful of fundamentalist and/or pentecostal. We had the radio rosary from Powers Lake, N.D. (Once the announcer says "We had our first inch of snow. It will be here until May" to which I though "I didn't tell you to build your place on the tundra"). We had the United Methodist hymn sing show, a live remote from the Lutheran (not Missouri Synod) church, a show called "Lutheran Vespers" and the Catholic "Sacred Heart". In addition, we had a very fundamentalist hellfire and damnation KJV only church twice on Sunday, a screaming Pentecostal preacher who would scream and take very loud, sharp breaths for a half hour (he was completely unintelligible). So I guess we had quite a mix.

So are you saved? Are you really really saved? Are you really really really really really really really sure you're saved? I'm gonna play "Just As I Am" until you convert

 

[MikefromDelaware]

gr8oldies, you bring back a memory I had from when I worked at a CCM station back in the 1980's. When I first started they put me on Sunday mornings, where I board op'd a bunch of dollar a hollar preachers, then later in the afternoon I did a music show. One of those preachers was one of those hollerin' kind. This guy apparently had recorded his sermon on a $20.00 cassette recorder he had thrown into the pulpit. Bottom line was he was so distorted you couldn't tell what he was saying. This bozo would scream and yell for the entire 30 minutes. One week it was especially bad, it literally was pure distortion. After a few minutes of that, I potted him down and announced that due to technical problems we'd not be airing Pastor so and so, tune in next week, for the remainder of this half hour will be music. I played music until the next show.

The following week when I came in to work, the owner was there where she asked me why I had cut Pastor so and so's show and played music. So I told her, it was so distorted that it literally wasn't broadcast quality. I couldn't tell whether he was praising God or Satan. She then sternly explained to me that she had gotten some calls with folks complaining because Pastor so and so wasn't on. She then explained to me that it wasn't for me to decide what what was broadcast quality, and as long as the tape moved without jamming up the recorder, I should let it play. If they pay, they get played. I said yes maam. So from then on, I'd put his show on and pot down the monitor and sit there watching the needle. As long as it was moving, no problem. At 29 minutes after the hour, I'd pot it back up to get the close so I could smoothly go into whatever spots I had before the next dollar a hollar preacher started.

That is one aspect of a small market Christian station, where if they pay they play rule is what makes those stations very unlistenable. My problem wasn't his doctrine. I never figured out what it was as I couldn't understand what he was saying (and as there are so many different denominations of people who worship the Risen Christ that as long as they proclaim Christ as Lord, it shouldn't be a criterior to getting on the air at a Christian station - but the quality of the tape should be of broadcast quality which was my point), but obviously someone could understand what he was screaming and knew the one time I took matters into my own hands and cut his show short.

 

[justalurker]

Mike, that is the definition of "Dollar a Holler". If a station is struggling that kind of mercenary radio is a viable option. It pays the bills. It also segregates the listeners, but at least they know if they don't like pastor distorto they can come back in 30 minutes for someone else. (It is a case of doing what you have to do ... bring in money ... to do what you want to do ... broadcast good Christian radio.)

In a perfect world the station would not have to accept "Dollar a Holler" programs (unless the audio was clean and the message matched the theology of the station). But they pay. They often even "pay" non-comms by sharing donations. I prefer stations where the message is consistent but I'm willing to not listen to a station for an hour or two when they need to "pay the bills".

 

[gr8oldies]

I'll hasten to add the station I referenced was secular with blocked paid religious programming on Sunday morning and evening. So no worry about correct or incorrect doctrine. That and a couple of other places I board opped on Sundays could be a thread, if not a book, by themselves. "Sister Treva" coming in with her enterouge, saying a quiet good morning, setting up in an adjacent studio, and letting the screaming fly. The guy who screamed stacato style would bring in his tape and check, and very hoarsely say "here's my program". The years of screaming had ruined his speaking voice. We had a couple of guys who bought 15 minute segments on Thursday evening. 7:00 and 8:00 hour, we'd have ABC news, Pentecostal preacher, then 40 minutes of the regular format. (Of course I would play something like "You Should Be Dancing" by the Bee Gees out of the programs!)