• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

How to shoot oneself in the foot

This article is truly amusing:

"HD Radio Makes Waves"

http://www.wgal.com/news/11422632/detail.html

Check out this quote:

"Biggest advantage is that it's going to be local. So there's going to be local ads. Local companies can still advertise on there. You'll be able to hear what's going on around the area -- local news, local weather," said Rost."

Dah - isn't that what analog radio already does, with all the lousy ads and just local content, versus Satellite Radio ? :D
 
MORE local content, more variety from LOCAL sources, is always a good thing. Stations could, for instance, put school board or city council meetings on an HD3 stream. NOBODY is going to do THAT on their main analog channel, but it's an excellent community service, AND an opportunity to reach a very specific audience (with advertising relating to city events...such as a newspaper or TV newscast...anyone who listens to this type of programming is bound to be super-interested in local news!)

Pocketradio I hope you realize that most people on this board work in terrestrial radio. Many o us have devoted our lives to community service, and even stayed at the station during emergency situations, "for the greater good", rather than being at home with family as we would prefer. Make fun of locally oriented, community content at your own peril (no that's NOT a threat...but if I made fun of terrestrial radio and broadcasters here, I'd watch my back!)
 
PocketRadio said:
This article is truly amusing:

"HD Radio Makes Waves"

http://www.wgal.com/news/11422632/detail.html

Check out this quote:

"Biggest advantage is that it's going to be local. So there's going to be local ads. Local companies can still advertise on there. You'll be able to hear what's going on around the area -- local news, local weather," said Rost."

Dah - isn't that what analog radio already does, with all the lousy ads and just local content, versus Satellite Radio ? :D

As long as we're getting off track here, Where were you on 9-11? I was in Manhattan a few miles north of ground zero. Y'see, I am a master control supervisor for one of the radio networks and so I couldn't be with my family or friends. I spent two days in Manhattan at work, and outside of minimal sleep, my collegues and I had to make sure that our 60 plus channels of programing which included 4 seperate major news networks stayed on the air so that the country could be kept informed. I guess things like that don't happen and anyway, it's not all that important.
 
Mike Walker said:
MORE local content, more variety from LOCAL sources, is always a good thing. Stations could, for instance, put school board or city council meetings on an HD3 stream. NOBODY is going to do THAT on their main analog channel, but it's an excellent community service, AND an opportunity to reach a very specific audience (with advertising relating to city events...such as a newspaper or TV newscast...anyone who listens to this type of programming is bound to be super-interested in local news!)

Pocketradio I hope you realize that most people on this board work in terrestrial radio. Many o us have devoted our lives to community service, and even stayed at the station during emergency situations, "for the greater good", rather than being at home with family as we would prefer. Make fun of locally oriented, community content at your own peril (no that's NOT a threat...but if I made fun of terrestrial radio and broadcasters here, I'd watch my back!)

I was just making fun of HD Radio - it is being sold as some wonderful new technology, when it is just a repeat of the same old stuff. Isn't that the complaint with terrestrial radio, with too many ads and just local content ? Why, do you think consumers pay for Satellite Radio ? I listen to distant AM every night - there is no reason to listen to local content, and it is the only reason I put up with all the ads. You all are so sensitive - don't take everything so personally. Oh talk about emergency situations - what happens, when there is another Katrina and local radio is knocked out and people have to depend on distant AM, when IBOC is buzzing the band into uselessness ?
 
Re: How to mistitle a post.

I was just making fun of HD Radio - it is being sold as some wonderful new technology, when it is just a repeat of the same old stuff. Isn't that the complaint with terrestrial radio, with too many ads and just local content ?

No that's YOUR problem with local radio. You don't want local news, you don't want weather, you don't want to know what's going on around where you live, you want MUSIC. That's should be secondary for local radio.

Just local content, huh? Right, THAT'S the problem with radio.

Why, do you think consumers pay for Satellite Radio ? I listen to distant AM every night - there is no reason to listen to local content, and it is the only reason I put up with all the ads.

Consumers pay for satellite because it has more variety. Some of satellite is commercial free now. It will be interesting to see if this continues.

You all are so sensitive - don't take everything so personally. Oh talk about emergency situations - what happens, when there is another Katrina and local radio is knocked out and people have to depend on distant AM, when IBOC is buzzing the band into uselessness ?

Right... That's what we need in an emerengcy DX. Talk about grasping at straws.

Clouseau
 
Ignorant people...flat Earthers all...with uninformed opinions interest me not at all. I NEVER click on your links, Pocket. Not a single one. Ever. And I'm not alone. Someone believing, or saying something doesn't make it true. A televangelist preaching doesn't prove there's an invisible man in the sky. Someone saying "man was never meant to fly" doesn't keep the plans from whizzing by. Someone saying "analog sounds better" doesn't keep cds first, and then digital downloads from outselling lps a zillion to one. And someone saying "HD has no place" doesn't do a freakin' thing to impact it's success, or lack thereof. Far from dead, terrestrial radio is in the black, and moving forward toward a digital future...a future where ALL media (short of print...and there are even moves in that way for "printed" matter in the form of electronic books) is delivered digitally.
 
Re: How to mistitle a post.

You all are so sensitive - don't take everything so personally. Oh talk about emergency situations - what happens, when there is another Katrina and local radio is knocked out and people have to depend on distant AM, when IBOC is buzzing the band into uselessness ?
Well, that's kind of simple. No local signals means no local IBOC interference. Distant signals come through, whether or not accompanied by their own IBOC signals.
 
Re: How to mistitle a post.

Philip J. Smith said:
You all are so sensitive - don't take everything so personally. Oh talk about emergency situations - what happens, when there is another Katrina and local radio is knocked out and people have to depend on distant AM, when IBOC is buzzing the band into uselessness ?
Well, that's kind of simple. No local signals means no local IBOC interference. Distant signals come through, whether or not accompanied by their own IBOC signals.

It may not be as simple, as you think - how do we know, that if there is no local AM-HD, that adjacent-channel AM-HD skywaves won't interfere with each other, by the time the skywaves arrive from hundreds of miles ?
 
DX stations never exhibit equal signal strength from channel to channel, across the entire dial, simultaneously. Yes, IBOC will make nighttime reception messy, but out of the entire band from 540 through 1700, whether 40 or 400 miles away, some stations will be audible. But, I'll guess we'll have that question answered in the coming months as the existing IBOC stations leave the switch flipped on 24/7. Just last night I was tuning around, listening to WFAN, WOR, WABC, WCBS, and CHML thinking, "Pretty soon I'll never hear these stations again, unless I am a few hundred miles from Chicago."

Regardless of listenership of AM stations at night (especially out-of-market), DX has always been a "given" for AM. Even with new allocations on prior clear-channels, there is still a lot of FCC-sanctioned spacing to accomodate the flamethrowers. IBOC will change a lot of that.
 
Hungry for more steam-dog dump fanciful tales from TeamBLOC? Not to worry!

Just ask 'em for more!

Magically, perhaps FCC repealing laws of physics, HD signals are strong, clean, and immune to noise within cities. But, these strong signals, which decrease in intensity by well known formulae regarding distance from transmitter, somehow evaporate at the city limits so as to not cause interference.

Know what's great about Stooge-Radio? If you don't like the bullshale they slopped on your plate, you can request more! As with seconds, thirds, fourths, and fifths, at BigKorpseorate Slopfest Buffets, TeamBLOC just hikes up and dumps another platter-full of steaming tales.

Aren't TeamBLOC folks accomodating? Does 'HD' stand for 'Hospitality Dump'?

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
30 March, 2007
 
paul vincent zecchino said:
Hungry for more steam-dog dump
Classy.

TeamBLOC?

Looks like more of the same...

Magically, perhaps FCC repealing laws of physics, HD signals are strong, clean, and immune to noise within cities. But, these strong signals, which decrease in intensity by well known formulae regarding distance from transmitter, somehow evaporate at the city limits so as to not cause interference.

Perhaps you hadn't noticed. We post in ENGLISH on this board.

Know what's great about Stooge-Radio?

My guess would be "people masquarading as educated" make up their own language about it."

Am I right, Alex?...

If you don't like the bullshale

See...

at BigKorpseorate Slopfest Buffets,

I swear to God I'm not making this up. Geez. Get Lindsay Lohan OUT of rehab and get "DR Z" in...


Go for it.

hikes up and dumps

OK, I'll concede. You are truly a "Different" class.

Aren't TeamBLOC folks accomodating?

Your mom must be proud. Don'r let me omit your credit...

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
30 March, 2007

Clouseau
 
No that's YOUR problem with local radio. You don't want local news, you don't want weather, you don't want to know what's going on around where you live, you want MUSIC. That's should be secondary for local radio.

You should send that message then to Clear Channel, Citadel, and all these other companies that use voicetracking and automation.

I cannot even begin to count how many times local radio stations have disregarded severe weather watches and warnings in their primary service area.

When tornardo sirens were blaring in Monroe County, MI, just across the border from Toledo, OH, I didn't hear a single weather update over a 15 minute period on Toledo's so-called "news radio" station, 1370 WSPD, which is owned by Clear Channel.

The scary thing is -- a LIVE and LOCAL talk show was on the air the entire time!

Minutes before, while I was driving through the Toledo area on I-75, the sky was an ominous yellow / orange color, the wind was calm, and there were tall, dark storm clouds to the north and west.

The talk host was too busy blathering on about the city council's expenditures on foreign-made landscaping equipment.

So, I tried 760 WJR from Detroit. The so-called "50,000 watt voice of the Great Lakes."

I didn't get much in the way of weather information -- just their PM drive host Mitch Albom whining about the prospect of his show being interrupted to give out severe weather information.

I couldn't get 950 WWJ in my location -- the incredible amount of static completely wiped out their signal.

I finally got a weather update by tuning to the Toledo market's Country station, K100.

So, those of you who act like local radio is some great bastion of information during emergencies are full of it. If YOUR station is, hats off to them. My experience, though, is that most local stations could care less -- and half the time they don't even run EAS alerts.

Sadly, it does take something like 9-11 or Hurricane Katrinia to whip local radio into shape as far as dispensing emergency information is concerned.
 
I guess I'm lucky to be in on the edge of a market where many stations are give very timely and informative information about foul weather, chemical leaks, and major traffic issues, etc. Just a few weeks ago I heard about a chemical leak close to where one of my parents live in the suburbs, and it was broadcast on a music station (WLUP Chicago). My rimshot stations such as WVLI Kankakee, WXNU St. Anne-Kankakee, WGFA Watseka, WSSR Joliet and WRZA Park Forest-Chicago give warnings and updates, too. I have even heard WVLI break into the middle of a song to give a tornado warning.

But, I've heard this kinds of activities on AM and FM stations while travelling, too. Just recently in west-central Michigan I was alerted to weather warnings on an FM music station. As to your statement about being "full of it," maybe you are so full of it that you can't concoct a viable argument through your own bias.
 
Cannot concoct a viable argument? I provided specific examples, just like you did.

I know a little something about West Michigan radio, too. I lived there for 20 years. A handful of stations out there do a good job (with WBCT "B93" by far being the best); most do not.

Nonetheless, the bottom line is a TON of stations use voicetracking & automation these days. Kinda contradicts the "live & local" argument some of you guys were making.

Heck, there are even FM stations in CHICAGO using voicetracking during weekdays. That's pathetic, if you ask me.

Let me ask you this -- how many FM stations in Chicago regularly break into programming to give out tornado warnings? How many continue to provide updates after the initial EAS alert goes out?
 
MarkW said:
I see...so now I am "biased." Whatever.

Cannot concoct a viable argument? I provided specific examples.

I know a little something about West Michigan radio, too. I lived there for 20 years. A handful of stations out there do a good job (with WBCT by far being the best); most do not.

Nonetheless, the bottom line is a TON of stations use voicetracking & automation these days. Kinda contradicts the "live & local" argument some of you guys were making.

Heck, there are even FM stations in CHICAGO using voicetracking during weekdays. That's pathetic, if you ask me.

Let me ask you this -- how many FM stations in Chicago regularly break into programming to give out tornado warnings? How many continue to provide updates after the initial EAS alert goes out?

I'm not in Chicago so I can't say. I'm in a top 150 market. Here, The Clear Channel cluster has auto forward on EAS for tornados. It works even if no one is home. Two other local groups do Tornados. One other "May" not be EAS compliant. I work at a stand alone AM. Even when unattended late at night WE do tornados. NWS here updates ANYTHING to do with tornados with EAS. And EAS and Tornados run on most stations all the time.

Chicago results may vary. I don't deny they do. But you're right, it's sad.

I'll bet Chicago terrestial has better tornado warnings than XM, Sirius, Internet or Podcast combined, though. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

Clouseau
 
You are definitely correct on your last point.

Bear in mind, though, that the NAB has fought vigorously against any attempts by XM & Sirius to provide localized content.

Getting back to the broader HD radio argument -- I'm all for the concept of more listening options on free radio. Who the heck could possibly be opposed to that?

With that said, I also believe the technology needs to be implemented in the best way possible. The current solution on the FM side isn't half bad, but could use improvement.

The biggest issue, IMO, is the manner in which HD2 and HD3 stations must be tuned in. The prospect of greatly expanded format variety is certainly the biggest draw. (Although in certain markets, the selection of HD-only stations is ho-hum.)

The AM solution, however, is a waste of time -- at least in my eyes. Reception range seems to vary from mediocre to downright awful. The newly created interference and especially the degradation in the analog signal's fidelity are frustrating -- although to the typical listener it might not be noticeable. Perhaps most importantly, I firmly believe this technology (in its present form) will do nothing to resurrect AM as a music-friendly band.

Some people believe IBOC digital audio will attract younger listeners to the AM band. I reject that argument, too. Why? Simple -- content is king. If the content is good, younger listeners will tune in. I'm 27, and most of my friends are 25 - 35. All of us listen to sports radio on AM on a regular basis.

If people my age live in a market where the AM band only offers syndie news/talk, pop standards, brokered programming, and religion -- chances are they still won't tune in, even when HD receivers are widely used.

With HD2 and HD3 stations in FM, there will be plenty of room for just about every music format under the sun.

A better solution for AM would be to increase analog bandwidth and / or encourage stations to use CQUAM stereo. Maybe eliminate some Class D licenses along the way. I hear AM radio sounds awesome in Japan.
 
MarkW said:
You are definitely correct on your last point.

Bear in mind, though, that the NAB has fought vigorously against any attempts by XM & Sirius to provide localized content.

It's a turf war thing and "I" agree with it. If we allow satellite to serve "Locally" they won't do it. It's a national service. They'll skim a little cream in the major metros. Meanwhile Tulsa, Billings and Frankfurt Kentucky won't get squat. If there is a problem with the service level on radio then let's fix it. Frankly, Satellite radio is the best thing that could have ever happened to terrestrial. It will keep terrestrial from becomeing a Jukebox.

Getting back to the broader HD radio argument -- I'm all for the concept of more listening options on free radio. Who the heck could possibly be opposed to that?

Amazingly, there are those who think radio is wasting it's time with more choices.

With that said, I also believe the technology needs to be implemented in the best way possible. The current solution on the FM side isn't half bad, but could use improvement.

The biggest issue, IMO, is the manner in which HD2 and HD3 stations must be tuned in. The prospect of greatly expanded format variety is certainly the biggest draw. (Although in certain markets, the selection of HD-only stations is ho-hum.)

You might be surprised to know that I agree with you to a degree. I DO think we should give radio a little more than 2 weeks of revenue promise before we totally dismiss the programming as a failure.

The AM solution, however, is a waste of time -- at least in my eyes. Reception range seems to vary from mediocre to downright awful. The newly created interference and especially the degradation in the analog signal's fidelity are frustrating -- although to the typical listener it might not be noticeable. Perhaps most importantly, I firmly believe this technology (in its present form) will do nothing to resurrect AM as a music-friendly band.
You may be right. I'm not sure AM will ever be the Music center it once was. I live 128 miles from a 50 KW blowtorch on AM. It does NOT make the trip. In my market there is no HD AM. The recordings I have heard do sound a lot better than analog, tho...

Some people believe IBOC digital audio will attract younger listeners to the AM band. I reject that argument, too. Why? Simple -- content is king. If the content is good, younger listeners will tune in. I'm 27, and most of my friends are 25 - 35. All of us listen to sports radio on AM on a regular basis.

Thanks for listening to Sports talk. My fellow sports talk PD's thank you. :)

I agree content "IS" king. However AM fidelity "IS" and issue for music. I was born 23 years before you. I remember when AM WAS king. It didn't die because it went brokered. It went brokered because it died. And it died because of the fidelity. I was raised on it and it doesn't bother me. It DOES bother a lot of people your age, though...

If people my age live in a market where the AM band only offers syndie news/talk, pop standards, brokered programming, and religion -- chances are they still won't tune in, even when HD receivers are widely used.

Agreed. However this MIGHT be a chicken and the egg kind of thing. IMHO AM is always going to be second rate. But it will be a lot closer to FM than it is now. Now only crazies try music on AM. (Apologies to those crazies fighting the war... I salute you)

With HD2 and HD3 stations in FM, there will be plenty of room for just about every music format under the sun.

Yep. My fear is that HD2 & HD-3 adopts formats like New & sportstalk and that AM is left with foreign language and the SCA type stuff.

A better solution for AM would be to increase analog bandwidth and / or encourage stations to use CQUAM stereo. Maybe eliminate some Class D licenses along the way. I hear AM radio sounds awesome in Japan.

I always like AM stereo, but it did not have the frequency response of Digital HD. And it still had that "AM sound". I actually remember when I got my first AM stereo radio in the car. It didin't "Sound" right, because it was AM but Stereo... After listening for just a few minutes I adapted. The weird thing was the fade under bridges when listening to stereo. (Which my brain interpreted as Lo-Fi FM. )

You might have convinced me on the last point. But today it's Digital Digital Digital... What a world...

Clouseau

BTW as a fellow poster...thanks for the thought provoking, civil exchange. Quite refreshing.
 
With AM, the FCC is essentially saying "local, local, local" with AM and FM service. Based on that, IBOC works. The FCC wanted a digital system that didn't interfere with local service. A well designed and implemented IBOC system fits those requirements.

The FCC long ago started doing away with the premise of "skywave service" with the 80-90 Docket and slicing up clear channels. There are very few places in the country where your only radio service is via skywave, period.

As for tracking chips? Nobody has proven that they exist, or if they do, how you extract data from them. Also the "what about emergency" types forget that analog radio still exists, and will for a good long time.

For better or worse, a new day has come.
 
That tracking chip thing is a real riot. I would be more concerned with the big evil nasty federal government installing a chip in my head as an Echelon experiment whilst I sleep, before I worry about anyone caring where my HD Radio receiver is located, and what station it is tuned to. "Now we've got him right where we want him. He said in court that he hates country music, but we ran an audit on his Boston Acoustics receiver and found that at 11:53 a.m. it was on his nightstand and was tuned to Country 100! Unfortunately, the camera in the receiver was blocked by a can of Coors. But, we still have enough to arrest him for purjury! Throw the book at him!"
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom