Well, it's been nearly 6 months since analog TV went bye-bye. I'll admit to being a dinosaur who still has a high profile antenna for TV reception. For me, I lost many, but not all, of the 70 mile away distant signals I used to watch in analog. Has anything ever come of the discussions with the FCC to allow for increased power levels for DTV transmissions? I know many of the "problems" in major cities like Philadelphia and elsewhere have been individually addressed with the permission to increase power for DTV. One station I used to watch here in Lexington, WAVE in Louisville, KY delivered a perfect Grade-A signal to me in analog, but NEVER appears here in Digital. Other Louisville stations, like WBNA were NEVER seen in analog, but are received here 100% of the time now that they are digital.
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How's OTA DTV working out for YOU?
- Thread starter KR4BD
- Start date
K
kenrayc
Guest
DTV is working fine for my locals in Fresno all come in even KAIL 7 which used to be UHF in a all UHF market, Bakersfield,100 miles south of me I used to get in analog all the time KERO ABC 23 and KBAK CBS 29, and occasionally got KGET NBC 17 and KUVI MNT 45.
Now in digital KERO NBC 23 switched to VHF 10 in what also was a all UHF market, which didn't make any since, being most OTA veiwer had a All UHF Antenna. I have a VHF/UHF combo Directional Antenna 25 ft high and I CAN'T get KERO anymore along with KGET17 and KUVI 45, But now I still receive KBAK ABC 29 and KBFX FOX 58 which I couldn't get before on analog, the reason it comes in is because it became KBAKs Sub-channel running on 58.2, where the original analog 58 was a LPTV station.
Now in digital KERO NBC 23 switched to VHF 10 in what also was a all UHF market, which didn't make any since, being most OTA veiwer had a All UHF Antenna. I have a VHF/UHF combo Directional Antenna 25 ft high and I CAN'T get KERO anymore along with KGET17 and KUVI 45, But now I still receive KBAK ABC 29 and KBFX FOX 58 which I couldn't get before on analog, the reason it comes in is because it became KBAKs Sub-channel running on 58.2, where the original analog 58 was a LPTV station.
KR4BD said:
DTV is a definite improvement at my location 30 miles northwest of Nashville.
I did lose channel 13 out of Bowling Green, Kentucky and intermittent reception of Kentucky Educational TV on channels 35 and 53.
However, I gained:
- 2.2 with fulltime weather
- 4.2 with Telemundo (I speak Spanish at about a first-grade level, but with the captions on I understand enough to enjoy many of the programs)
- 5.2 with local talk
- 5.3 with old movies (ThisTV)
- 8.2 with an alternate schedule of PBS programs (watch this more than any other channel)
- 28.1, .2, .3, and .4 with Ion's four channels of programming. (used to get a VERY snowy analog picture from a transmitter 50 miles away)
- 39.2 with religious programming
- 50.2, .3, .4, and .5 with religious programming
And, I now get a decent (indeed, perfect) picture on channels 2, 8, 39, 50, 58, and sometimes 66. Some summer mornings, I'd turn on the TV and channel 2 would be broadcasting in Spanish -- the local ABC station was being completely clobbered by Monterrey, Mexico. Even when there was no "DX" propagation, channel 2 analog was noisy.
How's DTV working out? You're kidding.....right?
I've posted several times on the various issues I've had but in the event you haven't seen those I'll summarize once again. Bear in mind that I was an early proponent of DTV thinking the combination of improved PQ and digital subs would provide benefits to those of us who got fed up with satt/cable and preferred OTA.
I am located approximately 8 miles line-of-sight (and due east) from the towers upon which are located every single one of Phoenix's full-power TV stations (and virtually all the local FM's as well). I have four different makes of converter box, two of which use set-top rabbit ears/loops and the other two are connected via coax to a large VHF/UHF/FM antenna perched on top of my two-story home.
Although there are currently 40 TV signals present in the Phoenix market I am only interested in virtual's 3 (indie), 5(CBS), 7/27(indie), 8(PBS), 10(Fox), 12(NBC), 15(ABC), 45(indie), 51(ION) and 61(indie). 8/10/12 are VHF. The others are UHF. Signal strengths are all in the "green" (upper third) of the graph on each converter box (which generally equates to better than 70% in digital terms). Stations in the market other than the above are either religious, Spanish, infomercial or children/crafts and of no interest to me.
Since the DTV conversion I have noticed not one single 30 minute segment on any station having either/both audio or video drop-outs and/or pixilation. Some are momentary and some more than that. Some seem to be related to the time-of-day/position-of-sun (behind towers) and/or wind/clouds/rain/dust.
Frequently I notice the sound out-of-sync with the video. This sometimes lasts for several minutes and sometimes for only a few seconds. It has happened on the major network stations as well as the indies. I can't be sure it is directly related to DTV but assume so since it seems widespread.
PQ is indeed marginally improved over previous analog OTA signals but not enough to be a big deal.
Subs, with two exceptions, have been major disappointments:
3.2 (This) is one exception. A movie channel with commercials, it features MGM oldies with frequent repeats.
8.3 (PBS World) is the other exception. An excellent addition to the PBS root in the Discovery mode.
The disappointments include 5.2/12.2/15.2 (weather/traffic loops), 8.2 (PBS Create) and 8.4 (simulcast of KBAQ FM), 45.2 (simulcast of 45.1), 51.2/.3/.4 (religious/kids).
Since I still have three analog VCR's whose tuners are now useless and require manual setting of digital tuners I now cannot record consecutive shows on different channels unattended. A minor problem for me but one which my wife cannot wrap her head around and gets severely agitated at every attempt.
With all this "expanded" viewing courtesy of DTV my TV viewing has declined to about 8 hours per week not including college football games and the occasional movie on This.
So, "how is the DTV working out for me?". I repeat.....you are KIDDING ME, right!
I've posted several times on the various issues I've had but in the event you haven't seen those I'll summarize once again. Bear in mind that I was an early proponent of DTV thinking the combination of improved PQ and digital subs would provide benefits to those of us who got fed up with satt/cable and preferred OTA.
I am located approximately 8 miles line-of-sight (and due east) from the towers upon which are located every single one of Phoenix's full-power TV stations (and virtually all the local FM's as well). I have four different makes of converter box, two of which use set-top rabbit ears/loops and the other two are connected via coax to a large VHF/UHF/FM antenna perched on top of my two-story home.
Although there are currently 40 TV signals present in the Phoenix market I am only interested in virtual's 3 (indie), 5(CBS), 7/27(indie), 8(PBS), 10(Fox), 12(NBC), 15(ABC), 45(indie), 51(ION) and 61(indie). 8/10/12 are VHF. The others are UHF. Signal strengths are all in the "green" (upper third) of the graph on each converter box (which generally equates to better than 70% in digital terms). Stations in the market other than the above are either religious, Spanish, infomercial or children/crafts and of no interest to me.
Since the DTV conversion I have noticed not one single 30 minute segment on any station having either/both audio or video drop-outs and/or pixilation. Some are momentary and some more than that. Some seem to be related to the time-of-day/position-of-sun (behind towers) and/or wind/clouds/rain/dust.
Frequently I notice the sound out-of-sync with the video. This sometimes lasts for several minutes and sometimes for only a few seconds. It has happened on the major network stations as well as the indies. I can't be sure it is directly related to DTV but assume so since it seems widespread.
PQ is indeed marginally improved over previous analog OTA signals but not enough to be a big deal.
Subs, with two exceptions, have been major disappointments:
3.2 (This) is one exception. A movie channel with commercials, it features MGM oldies with frequent repeats.
8.3 (PBS World) is the other exception. An excellent addition to the PBS root in the Discovery mode.
The disappointments include 5.2/12.2/15.2 (weather/traffic loops), 8.2 (PBS Create) and 8.4 (simulcast of KBAQ FM), 45.2 (simulcast of 45.1), 51.2/.3/.4 (religious/kids).
Since I still have three analog VCR's whose tuners are now useless and require manual setting of digital tuners I now cannot record consecutive shows on different channels unattended. A minor problem for me but one which my wife cannot wrap her head around and gets severely agitated at every attempt.
With all this "expanded" viewing courtesy of DTV my TV viewing has declined to about 8 hours per week not including college football games and the occasional movie on This.
So, "how is the DTV working out for me?". I repeat.....you are KIDDING ME, right!
For the most part, most of my locals and sub-locals are still there just as before. Here's my DTV scorecard...
WGBH 2.1 & 2.2 (DTV/19) PBS, strong
WBZ 4.1 (DTV/30) CBS, strong
WCVB 5.1 (DTV/20) ABC, strong
WLNE 6.1 (DTV/49) ABC, good
WHDH 7.1 (DTV/42), NBC, strong
" 7.2 "" "" . THIStv
WJAR 10.1 (DTV/51), NBC, strong
" 10.2 "" "" , RTV
WPRI 12.1 (DTV/13), CBS, strong
WFXT 25.1 (DTV/31), FOX, strong
WUNI 27.1 (DTV/29), UNI, weak
" 27.2 " " , ?
WLWC 28.1 (DTV/22), CW, strong
WSBE 36.1 (DTV/21), PBS, weak
" 36.2 " " , Learn
WSBK 38.1 (DTV/39), Ind.
WGBX 44.1 (DTV/43), PBS, strong
" 44.2 " " , WGBH World
" 44.3 " " , Create
" 44.4 " " , 'GBH Kids
WLVI 56.1 (DTV/41), CW, strong
WMFP 62.1 (DTV/18), RTV, strong
WNAC 64.1 (DTV/12), FOX, strong
" 64.2 " " , MNT
WUTF 66.1 (DTV/27), Telefutura
WBPX 68.1 (DTV/32), ION
" 68.2 " " , Qubo
" 68.3 " " , Ion Life
" 68.4 " " , Worship Channel
All I use is an Insignia DTV decoder, connected to a corner-reflector with an in-line 18 db. RF amp with RG/6 cable. Antenna height is 20" AGL. I am in Whitman, MA (30 miles south of Boston and 40 miles from Providence). The only no-shows (from the analog days) are, WZMY/50 (DTV/35, no surprise there!) and the other LPTV's in the area. 73, Pete (K1XRB)
WGBH 2.1 & 2.2 (DTV/19) PBS, strong
WBZ 4.1 (DTV/30) CBS, strong
WCVB 5.1 (DTV/20) ABC, strong
WLNE 6.1 (DTV/49) ABC, good
WHDH 7.1 (DTV/42), NBC, strong
" 7.2 "" "" . THIStv
WJAR 10.1 (DTV/51), NBC, strong
" 10.2 "" "" , RTV
WPRI 12.1 (DTV/13), CBS, strong
WFXT 25.1 (DTV/31), FOX, strong
WUNI 27.1 (DTV/29), UNI, weak
" 27.2 " " , ?
WLWC 28.1 (DTV/22), CW, strong
WSBE 36.1 (DTV/21), PBS, weak
" 36.2 " " , Learn
WSBK 38.1 (DTV/39), Ind.
WGBX 44.1 (DTV/43), PBS, strong
" 44.2 " " , WGBH World
" 44.3 " " , Create
" 44.4 " " , 'GBH Kids
WLVI 56.1 (DTV/41), CW, strong
WMFP 62.1 (DTV/18), RTV, strong
WNAC 64.1 (DTV/12), FOX, strong
" 64.2 " " , MNT
WUTF 66.1 (DTV/27), Telefutura
WBPX 68.1 (DTV/32), ION
" 68.2 " " , Qubo
" 68.3 " " , Ion Life
" 68.4 " " , Worship Channel
All I use is an Insignia DTV decoder, connected to a corner-reflector with an in-line 18 db. RF amp with RG/6 cable. Antenna height is 20" AGL. I am in Whitman, MA (30 miles south of Boston and 40 miles from Providence). The only no-shows (from the analog days) are, WZMY/50 (DTV/35, no surprise there!) and the other LPTV's in the area. 73, Pete (K1XRB)
I subscribe to DirecTV, but left the UHF antenna on the roof in case the satellite is rained (or snowed) out. I am in Oldham county, about 5 miles from WAVE's NTSC tower and 15 miles as a crow flies from the transmitters in Floyds Knobs Indiana. I completly lost WHAS 11 since they made the bonehead decision to go back to channel 11 for their digital signal. I'm not replacing the antenna I have now just for one station. When the weather is overcast, like it is now, I lose them all but WAVE and WLKY.
People are seeing issues that were never anticipated, but that didn't matter since the FCC saw nothing but dollar signs when it came to reapproating the vacated spectrum. Once again, a government agency screwed the people they are supposed to help.
People are seeing issues that were never anticipated, but that didn't matter since the FCC saw nothing but dollar signs when it came to reapproating the vacated spectrum. Once again, a government agency screwed the people they are supposed to help.
I mostly love DTV. Additional channels and improved PQ in most cases. I now have access to CW, My Network TV, RTV, and other services I would not have without digital TV.
The exception to my love for it is my local PBS, but it's their fault. It's a low-VHF signal that has a horrid time with electrical interference and they have their bandwidth allocated such that their HD is severely bit-starved. They have PBS World which I love, but their other SD subchannel is a center-cut version of the HD! What a waste!
- Trip
The exception to my love for it is my local PBS, but it's their fault. It's a low-VHF signal that has a horrid time with electrical interference and they have their bandwidth allocated such that their HD is severely bit-starved. They have PBS World which I love, but their other SD subchannel is a center-cut version of the HD! What a waste!
- Trip
It's a win, mostly, here in Rochester. 4300 feet from the transmitter site, my Rochester locals are (as expected) easily locked in on even the most modest of indoor antennas, and the coming of DTV brought an over-the-air CW option (WHAM-DT 13.2) that didn't exist in analog, as well as two additional PBS options (Create and World on WXXI-DT 21.2/21.3). Rumor has it that "This TV" is coming in 2010 as well. DTV also transformed a single channel of Pax analog with middling indoor reception (WPXJ 51 Batavia) into four channels of ion with usably clean indoor reception (51.1/2/3/4).
With the rooftop antenna in play, things get more interesting. In the analog era, I had constant reception of several distant VHF signals (2/4/7 from Buffalo, 3/5 from Syracuse), subject to all the electrical noise, summertime e-skip and other vagaries that affected signals at 70-80 miles distance. With the coming of DTV, all of those signals went to UHF, and now they're either in perfectly or not there at all. 2 and 4 (RF 33/39) from Buffalo and 5 (RF 47) from Syracuse are in most of the time, 7 (RF 38) and 3 (RF 24) less so. When they're in, I have some extra services that are new to me: RTV and Universal Sports on 2.2/2.3 and CW (a WSTQ-LP simulcast) on 3.2.
A few former analog Us that were only occasional catches are now regular DTV locks, most notably WSYT 68 (RF 19) from Syracuse, which puts a booming DTV signal over me and sometimes provides a useful alternative to my local Fox outlet. There's also extra PBS content from Syracuse's WCNY 24 (RF 25), which has a nifty subchannel of classic movies.
From Buffalo I get the first really clear My Network reception I've ever had OTA here. The Rochester MNT affiliate is an LPTV, WBGT-CA 40, with a really mediocre picture (even on the rooftop antenna) - but WNYO-TV 49 (RF 49) from Buffalo is solid here nearly all the time, not that there's anything on MNT worth watching.
On the "loss" side, my usual summertime trop reception of Watertown's stations (analog 7/16/50) has been replaced by far less-regular reception of the DTVs up there (RF 7/41/21). I also lost MNT affiliate WNYS Syracuse (analog 43/DTV RF 44), though again that wasn't much of a loss.
I wish I had a better explanation for landtuna's woes. My experiences with Phoenix DTV on my last visit back in April were much more positive, with pretty much everything from South Mountain locking in cleanly from an indoor antenna in a hotel room in downtown Scottsdale. (I had considerably more trouble with DTV in Tucson, for whatever it's worth.) It sounds like landtuna is getting plenty of RF - maybe even too much for some of his receivers - but with a lot of multipath along the way, which can be murder on 8VSB DTV in certain circumstances. Given the very large number of DTV stations, both full-power and LP, all operating from South Mountain, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there's significant intermod among those signals. That's a problem almost nobody wants to acknowledge, with the exception of TV Technology columnist Charlie Rhodes, who's been sounding the alarm for a while now. (You can read some of his columns here: http://www.tvtechnology.com/section/digital-tv )
With the rooftop antenna in play, things get more interesting. In the analog era, I had constant reception of several distant VHF signals (2/4/7 from Buffalo, 3/5 from Syracuse), subject to all the electrical noise, summertime e-skip and other vagaries that affected signals at 70-80 miles distance. With the coming of DTV, all of those signals went to UHF, and now they're either in perfectly or not there at all. 2 and 4 (RF 33/39) from Buffalo and 5 (RF 47) from Syracuse are in most of the time, 7 (RF 38) and 3 (RF 24) less so. When they're in, I have some extra services that are new to me: RTV and Universal Sports on 2.2/2.3 and CW (a WSTQ-LP simulcast) on 3.2.
A few former analog Us that were only occasional catches are now regular DTV locks, most notably WSYT 68 (RF 19) from Syracuse, which puts a booming DTV signal over me and sometimes provides a useful alternative to my local Fox outlet. There's also extra PBS content from Syracuse's WCNY 24 (RF 25), which has a nifty subchannel of classic movies.
From Buffalo I get the first really clear My Network reception I've ever had OTA here. The Rochester MNT affiliate is an LPTV, WBGT-CA 40, with a really mediocre picture (even on the rooftop antenna) - but WNYO-TV 49 (RF 49) from Buffalo is solid here nearly all the time, not that there's anything on MNT worth watching.
On the "loss" side, my usual summertime trop reception of Watertown's stations (analog 7/16/50) has been replaced by far less-regular reception of the DTVs up there (RF 7/41/21). I also lost MNT affiliate WNYS Syracuse (analog 43/DTV RF 44), though again that wasn't much of a loss.
I wish I had a better explanation for landtuna's woes. My experiences with Phoenix DTV on my last visit back in April were much more positive, with pretty much everything from South Mountain locking in cleanly from an indoor antenna in a hotel room in downtown Scottsdale. (I had considerably more trouble with DTV in Tucson, for whatever it's worth.) It sounds like landtuna is getting plenty of RF - maybe even too much for some of his receivers - but with a lot of multipath along the way, which can be murder on 8VSB DTV in certain circumstances. Given the very large number of DTV stations, both full-power and LP, all operating from South Mountain, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there's significant intermod among those signals. That's a problem almost nobody wants to acknowledge, with the exception of TV Technology columnist Charlie Rhodes, who's been sounding the alarm for a while now. (You can read some of his columns here: http://www.tvtechnology.com/section/digital-tv )
DTV is much like the nursery rhyme about the little girl with the curl: when it is good, it is very, very good, but when it is bad, it is horrid.
I live a couple of miles from landtuna in Phoenix, but within clear line of sight of Tucson's Mt. Bigelow stations, so my one TV picks up 4 (23), 6 (30), 18 (19), and occasionally 46 from 100 miles away. My other TV, on the other side of the house, gets 6 and 18, but only occasionally, and only at night. A couple of miles to the west of me, in Ahwatukee, I can get all of the Mt. Bigelow full-service stations, even channel 9 with just a set of rabbit ears.
The odd thing about Phoenix DTV is that the locals will just drop out from time to time. I've had difficulty with 8 and 21 (20) lately, mostly in the 4pm - 6pm timeframe, the warmest part of the day. A website I'd visited suggested that it might be due to the signal reflecting from the ground and canceling the direct signal - I wish I could remember the website.
I live a couple of miles from landtuna in Phoenix, but within clear line of sight of Tucson's Mt. Bigelow stations, so my one TV picks up 4 (23), 6 (30), 18 (19), and occasionally 46 from 100 miles away. My other TV, on the other side of the house, gets 6 and 18, but only occasionally, and only at night. A couple of miles to the west of me, in Ahwatukee, I can get all of the Mt. Bigelow full-service stations, even channel 9 with just a set of rabbit ears.
The odd thing about Phoenix DTV is that the locals will just drop out from time to time. I've had difficulty with 8 and 21 (20) lately, mostly in the 4pm - 6pm timeframe, the warmest part of the day. A website I'd visited suggested that it might be due to the signal reflecting from the ground and canceling the direct signal - I wish I could remember the website.
In Chicago, most of the problems for people seem to be relicated to those within the city limits (even more so for those living in & near downtown). I'm I'm approximately 30 miles from downtown Chicago, and can get all full power DTV stations. I used to have problems after June 12th with only certain UHF stations. I have had no problems with the 2 VHF stations after June 12th, and never had any problems with Low VHF 3, which WBBM-TV used to broadcast on. Most people either had the wrong outdoor antenna, or using rabbit ears to get channel 3. Most people got WBBM-TV when they switch to channel 12. WLS-TV has had problems within downtown Chicago to where people could get their station. Since they didn't request a new channel before June 12th, they were forced to vacate channel 52 and go back to channel 7. So most people near & in Downtown Chicago haven't been able to get the station, even after they increased their power. They have kept channel 7, but using it as a full market translator, while their regular signal is now on channel 44. I can get both, but channel 7 comes in stronger for me than 44 does. Before June 12th, I had pixelation with WLS-TV on 52. On June 12th, only 4 stations changed channels (WBBM-TV from A-2/DT-3 to DT-12; WLS-TV from A-7/DT-52 to to DT-7; WGBO from A-66/DT-53 to DT-38; WXFT from A-60/DT-59 to DT-50). WJYS didn't request another channel, and A-62 was out of core; so they had to stay on DT-36. Lastly, WYIN was out of core on A-56, and didn't request another channel; so they had to stay on DT-17. The remaining stations had a choice on keeping one of the channels they used for, and with the exception of WBBM-TV, all the other stations stayed on the pre-transition channel. Until recently, I always had problems with pixelation with WCIU 27.1, WMAQ DT-29.1, WJYS DT-36.1, WCPX DT-43.1, WSNS DT-45.1, & WTTW DT-47.1 (all on the Sears Tower), & from time to time, WYIN DT-17.1 (the only Chicago area station not on any Chicago skycraper. I don't consider WWTO DT-10.1 a Chicago station, even if LaSalle County is part of the Chicago TV market).
Here's the list of channels for the Chicago market. I have both the RF channel & the virtual channel listed. Stations licensed to Chicago, except where noted.
RF VC station name
7.1 7.1 WLS-TV (ABC-HD)(Translator)
7.2 7.2 LiveWell HD (Translator)
7.3 7.3 Accu-Weather (Translator)
12.1 2.1 WBBM-TV (CBS-HD)
17.1 56.1 WYIN-DT (PBS) (Gary, IN) (For now, WYIN-DT is simulcasting the main channel on 17.2, .3, & .4.
Don't know what they have planned for those channels.)
19.1 9.1 WGN-TV (CW-HD)
19.2 9.2 LATV (Spanish)
21.1 20.1 WYCC (PBS-HD)
21.2 20.2 WYCC (PBS-SD, simulcast)
21.3 20.3 MHZ Worldwide
23.1 23.1 WWME-LD (MeTV, via WCIU DT-27.2)
27.1 26.1 WCIU (Independent-HD)
27.2 26.2 MeTV (WWME-LD programming)
27.3 26.3 MeToo (WMEU-CA Programming)
27.4 26.4 This TV
27.6 26.6 FBT (Ethic language programming, original programming for WCIU)
29.1 5.1 WMAQ-TV (NBC-HD)
29.2 5.2 NBC Plus (WMAQ-TV's 24 hour weather radar channel)
29.3 5.3 NBC Universal Sports
31.1 32.1 WFLD (Fox-HD)
36.1 62.1 WJYS (Independent) (Hammond, IN)
36.2 62.2 WEDE-CA (simulcast of WEDE-CA, licensed to Arlington Heights, IL. Ind. religious programming)
38.1 66.1 WGBO-DT (Univisión-HD) (Joliet, IL) (While now setup for HD, they don't currently air HD programming)
43.1 38.1 WCPX (Ion TV-HD)
43.2 38.2 Qubo
43.3 38.3 Ion Life
43.4 38.4 Worship TV
44.1 7.1 WLS-TV (ABC-HD) (Their full power service channel)
44.2 7.2 LiveWell HD
44.3 7.3 Accu-Weather
45.1 44.1 WSNS (Telemundo-HD)
45.2 44.2 WSNS (Telemundo-DS, simulcast)
47.1 11.1 WTTW (PBS-HD)
47.2 11.2 WTTW Prime (24 hour Primetime PBS programming, programmed by WTTW)
47.3 11.3 Create
47.4 11.4 V-Me (PBS programming in Spanish, though this is a partnership, and not 100% owned by PBS)
48.1 48.1 WMEU-CA (MeToo via WCIU 27.3)
50.1 60.1 WXFT (Telefutura-HD) (Aurora, IL) (While now setup for HD, they're not currently running HD programming)
51.1 50.1 WPWR-TV (My Network TV-HD) (Gary, IN)
Here's the list of channels for the Chicago market. I have both the RF channel & the virtual channel listed. Stations licensed to Chicago, except where noted.
RF VC station name
7.1 7.1 WLS-TV (ABC-HD)(Translator)
7.2 7.2 LiveWell HD (Translator)
7.3 7.3 Accu-Weather (Translator)
12.1 2.1 WBBM-TV (CBS-HD)
17.1 56.1 WYIN-DT (PBS) (Gary, IN) (For now, WYIN-DT is simulcasting the main channel on 17.2, .3, & .4.
Don't know what they have planned for those channels.)
19.1 9.1 WGN-TV (CW-HD)
19.2 9.2 LATV (Spanish)
21.1 20.1 WYCC (PBS-HD)
21.2 20.2 WYCC (PBS-SD, simulcast)
21.3 20.3 MHZ Worldwide
23.1 23.1 WWME-LD (MeTV, via WCIU DT-27.2)
27.1 26.1 WCIU (Independent-HD)
27.2 26.2 MeTV (WWME-LD programming)
27.3 26.3 MeToo (WMEU-CA Programming)
27.4 26.4 This TV
27.6 26.6 FBT (Ethic language programming, original programming for WCIU)
29.1 5.1 WMAQ-TV (NBC-HD)
29.2 5.2 NBC Plus (WMAQ-TV's 24 hour weather radar channel)
29.3 5.3 NBC Universal Sports
31.1 32.1 WFLD (Fox-HD)
36.1 62.1 WJYS (Independent) (Hammond, IN)
36.2 62.2 WEDE-CA (simulcast of WEDE-CA, licensed to Arlington Heights, IL. Ind. religious programming)
38.1 66.1 WGBO-DT (Univisión-HD) (Joliet, IL) (While now setup for HD, they don't currently air HD programming)
43.1 38.1 WCPX (Ion TV-HD)
43.2 38.2 Qubo
43.3 38.3 Ion Life
43.4 38.4 Worship TV
44.1 7.1 WLS-TV (ABC-HD) (Their full power service channel)
44.2 7.2 LiveWell HD
44.3 7.3 Accu-Weather
45.1 44.1 WSNS (Telemundo-HD)
45.2 44.2 WSNS (Telemundo-DS, simulcast)
47.1 11.1 WTTW (PBS-HD)
47.2 11.2 WTTW Prime (24 hour Primetime PBS programming, programmed by WTTW)
47.3 11.3 Create
47.4 11.4 V-Me (PBS programming in Spanish, though this is a partnership, and not 100% owned by PBS)
48.1 48.1 WMEU-CA (MeToo via WCIU 27.3)
50.1 60.1 WXFT (Telefutura-HD) (Aurora, IL) (While now setup for HD, they're not currently running HD programming)
51.1 50.1 WPWR-TV (My Network TV-HD) (Gary, IN)
N
nsa6210
Guest
Works great for me in the Cleveland area - I am about 25 miles from both the Cleveland and Akron antenna farms. I receive the following with a small outdoor antenna:
3.1 - WKYC (NBC HD - RF17)
3.2 - WKYC weather radar loop
5.1 - WEWS (ABC HD - RF 15)
8.1 - WJW (Fox HD)
17.1 - 17.5 WDLI (religious - RF 39)
19.1 - WOIO (CBS HD - RF 10)
19.2 - WOIO Weather
23.1 - WVPX (Ion - RF 23)
23.2 - WVPX Qubo
23.3 - WVPX Ion Life
23.4 - WVPX Worship
25.1 - WVIZ (PBS HD - RF 26)
25.2 - WVIZ Ohio Channel
25.3 - WVIZ World
25.4 - WVIZ Create
25.9 - Audio - Cleveland Sight Center, reading for the blind
43.1 - WUAB (MyNet HD - RF 28)
42.2 - ThisTV
49.1 - WEAO (PBS HD - RF 50)
49.2 - WEAO Fusion (part-time Classic Arts/Ohio Channel/British Comedies)
49.3 - WEAO MHz Worldview (foreign newscasts)
49.4 - WEAO V-Me (Spanish)
52.1 - WGGN (religious - RF 42)
52.2 - WGGN placeholder (video loop + WGGN-FM audio)
53.1 - WCDN-LD (religious - RF 7)
55.1 - WBNX (CW HD - RF 30)
61.1 - WQHS (Univision - RF 34)
68.1 - WMFD (indie - RF 12)
68.2 - WMFD Weather radar loop+bulletin board channel+news briefs
In addition, there is a low-power analog, W35AX, on CH35 with RTV. It comes in somewhat snowy.
No analog stations were lost
17 and 68 were non-existent in analog, and 23, 52, 53, and 49 were extremely snowy in analog. All are perfect in digital. Plus all the new subchannels, of which the PBS ones and This are worthwhile.
With an indoor antenna, all are received easily except 52, 53 and 68: 8 and 19, which are VHF, can be somewhat flaky with an indoor antenna.
Also DX-ed digital stations last summer during tropo openings from Toledo (11, 13, 40), Youngstown (21 & 27), Erie (24 and 66), Fort Wayne (21 & 33), Detroit (2, 7, 20, and 62), Bowling Green (30), and Lima (44).
3.1 - WKYC (NBC HD - RF17)
3.2 - WKYC weather radar loop
5.1 - WEWS (ABC HD - RF 15)
8.1 - WJW (Fox HD)
17.1 - 17.5 WDLI (religious - RF 39)
19.1 - WOIO (CBS HD - RF 10)
19.2 - WOIO Weather
23.1 - WVPX (Ion - RF 23)
23.2 - WVPX Qubo
23.3 - WVPX Ion Life
23.4 - WVPX Worship
25.1 - WVIZ (PBS HD - RF 26)
25.2 - WVIZ Ohio Channel
25.3 - WVIZ World
25.4 - WVIZ Create
25.9 - Audio - Cleveland Sight Center, reading for the blind
43.1 - WUAB (MyNet HD - RF 28)
42.2 - ThisTV
49.1 - WEAO (PBS HD - RF 50)
49.2 - WEAO Fusion (part-time Classic Arts/Ohio Channel/British Comedies)
49.3 - WEAO MHz Worldview (foreign newscasts)
49.4 - WEAO V-Me (Spanish)
52.1 - WGGN (religious - RF 42)
52.2 - WGGN placeholder (video loop + WGGN-FM audio)
53.1 - WCDN-LD (religious - RF 7)
55.1 - WBNX (CW HD - RF 30)
61.1 - WQHS (Univision - RF 34)
68.1 - WMFD (indie - RF 12)
68.2 - WMFD Weather radar loop+bulletin board channel+news briefs
In addition, there is a low-power analog, W35AX, on CH35 with RTV. It comes in somewhat snowy.
No analog stations were lost
17 and 68 were non-existent in analog, and 23, 52, 53, and 49 were extremely snowy in analog. All are perfect in digital. Plus all the new subchannels, of which the PBS ones and This are worthwhile.
With an indoor antenna, all are received easily except 52, 53 and 68: 8 and 19, which are VHF, can be somewhat flaky with an indoor antenna.
Also DX-ed digital stations last summer during tropo openings from Toledo (11, 13, 40), Youngstown (21 & 27), Erie (24 and 66), Fort Wayne (21 & 33), Detroit (2, 7, 20, and 62), Bowling Green (30), and Lima (44).
nsa6210 said:
I like some of the PBS subchannels too in Chicago. However, WYCC for some reason simulcasts the main channel in SD, instead of creating a different channel. I haven't seen PBS World. It would be nice if WYCC had this instead of their simulcast on PSIP 20.2 Milwaukee's WMVT PSIP 36.3 (RF 35.3) has it. WTTW may not have additional room to carry another channel, as they already have 3 subchannels. WTTW does a good job programming their own subchannel, WTTW Prime.
This TV is ok. There haven't been many movies for me to watch. At least it gives a choice. You can thank Chicago based Weigel Broadcasting for creating that channel. Now if they can get MeTV expanded outside of Chicago & Milwaukee, that would be a good channel for DTV. It's programmed very well for a Classic TV channel (similar to the old Nick at Nite & TV Land).
As for DX'ing on DTV, I usually get WSBT 22.1 (same on both RF & PSIP) (CBS) on most nights, along with WSJV 28.1 (both RF & PSIP) (Fox) from time to time. I'm on the fringe of the South Bend Indiana market, and have goot both of these stations. I only got WNIT RF 35.1 (PSIP 34.1) (PBS) once or twice. I have yet to get WNDU RF 42.1 (PSIP 16.1) & WHME RF 48.1 (PSIP 46.1) since they went digital. On analog, WNDU was a regular in my area on 16. Other than WNIT, WSBT, & WSJV from South Bend Indiana, I only got WMVS (PBS) RF 8.1 (PSIP 10.1) from Milwaukee (never got this station on analog), & WKOW RF 26.1 (PSIP 27.1) Madison Wisconsin. This is with the Magnavox DTV box, Model # TB100MW9.
At my house, an outdoor antenna is a must, as FM & TV signals don't penetrate my home at all. My antenna is a Philips upside-down V-shaped VHF/UHF antenna made for channels 2-69, and mainly for suburban to rural areas. This antenna was why I was able to get WBBM-TV on DT3 with no real trouble. Once this antenna is shot, I'll be getting an antenna made for 7-51, since WBBM-TV abandoned channel 3 for channel 12.
Working fine in the Los Angeles DMA about 30 miles from the Mt. Wilson tower farm. The recent wildfires over last summer came within yards of changing all of that but thankfully Cal-Fire knocked them down and a change in the weather steered the flames away to save the broadcasting super mountain. It was really touch and go up there for a while.
The only gripe I have is with KTTV-11 (Fox) and KCOP-13 (MNTV). Both channels are VHF but are consistently the weakest and most finicky to receive with indoor bunny ears. The FCC has granted both stations a power increase but who knows if or when that will ever occur. I personally don't think both of these Fox owned stations really care about us OTA watchers so I'll have to make due with bunny ear fiddling from time to time. Everything else comes in great with minimal antenna tweaking including the other two full power VHFs; KABC-7 (ABC) & KCAL-9 (Ind). Only KTTV and KCOP prevent me from having a "set it and forget it" sweet spot with my ears. Such is the bane of the free tv watcher I guess.
There is another VHF in the Southland that's a bit of a joke around these parts, low-power lightbulb KFLA-8 (America One). You could probably count the amount of people that get the signal on two hands but only use one hand to count people that actually watch it. I've never caught a whiff of anything being there but from what I've read on the AVS forums, I'm not missing anything at all important.
My scan count is currently at 80 digital channels including subs and 5 analog low-power infomercial or espanol godcasters that are still spinning their gears holding on to old tech. Of course, of that 80 I have deleted 61 channels due to being in languages I do not speak (although I will watch the World Cup matches on the Spanish channels when they begin) or programming I have no interest in. So, of the 80 available I only keep 24 channels in surf mode and of that 24, 14 are marked as favorites.
San Diego stations used to be a frequent visitor for me in the halcyon days during Summer inversion but now are all but digitally silent.
I am also in the camp that thinks PBS World is a great addition to the PBS family especially during Pledge Drive time when our PBS mains are in beg mode and showing the same Victor Borge special I've seen at least 10 times all ready. No knock against Victor Borge but come on, does every Pledge Drive have to feature him or Suze Orman? I also watch PBS Create because I am a horrible cook.
NBCs Universal Sports could be a better sub by utilizing much more diverse Olympic coverage than figure skating but I did catch a Canadian curling match where the winner would go to Vancouver the other night. That was cool. This-TV is hit or miss as far as the movies that air but it is a welcome addition over any sub devoted solely to infomercials. ABC O&Os Live-Well HD sub is absolutely useless and unnecessary. It degrades the HD bandwidth on the main channel which is far more important than an HD show about flower arranging.
The only gripe I have is with KTTV-11 (Fox) and KCOP-13 (MNTV). Both channels are VHF but are consistently the weakest and most finicky to receive with indoor bunny ears. The FCC has granted both stations a power increase but who knows if or when that will ever occur. I personally don't think both of these Fox owned stations really care about us OTA watchers so I'll have to make due with bunny ear fiddling from time to time. Everything else comes in great with minimal antenna tweaking including the other two full power VHFs; KABC-7 (ABC) & KCAL-9 (Ind). Only KTTV and KCOP prevent me from having a "set it and forget it" sweet spot with my ears. Such is the bane of the free tv watcher I guess.
There is another VHF in the Southland that's a bit of a joke around these parts, low-power lightbulb KFLA-8 (America One). You could probably count the amount of people that get the signal on two hands but only use one hand to count people that actually watch it. I've never caught a whiff of anything being there but from what I've read on the AVS forums, I'm not missing anything at all important.
My scan count is currently at 80 digital channels including subs and 5 analog low-power infomercial or espanol godcasters that are still spinning their gears holding on to old tech. Of course, of that 80 I have deleted 61 channels due to being in languages I do not speak (although I will watch the World Cup matches on the Spanish channels when they begin) or programming I have no interest in. So, of the 80 available I only keep 24 channels in surf mode and of that 24, 14 are marked as favorites.
San Diego stations used to be a frequent visitor for me in the halcyon days during Summer inversion but now are all but digitally silent.
I am also in the camp that thinks PBS World is a great addition to the PBS family especially during Pledge Drive time when our PBS mains are in beg mode and showing the same Victor Borge special I've seen at least 10 times all ready. No knock against Victor Borge but come on, does every Pledge Drive have to feature him or Suze Orman? I also watch PBS Create because I am a horrible cook.
NBCs Universal Sports could be a better sub by utilizing much more diverse Olympic coverage than figure skating but I did catch a Canadian curling match where the winner would go to Vancouver the other night. That was cool. This-TV is hit or miss as far as the movies that air but it is a welcome addition over any sub devoted solely to infomercials. ABC O&Os Live-Well HD sub is absolutely useless and unnecessary. It degrades the HD bandwidth on the main channel which is far more important than an HD show about flower arranging.
Things working in Tallahassee Florida Thomasville Ga area Im about 17 miles southeast of Tallahassee on DTV I get...
6-1:CBS-HD WCTV
6-2:MYNTV
11-1:WFSU PBS 11-2:WFSU2 Florida Captial News 11-3:WFSU3 Creative 11-4:WFSU4 FKN
27-1-ABC WTXL
27-2: 24/7 Weather
40-1:WTWC-NBC HD
40-2:WTWC-SD
45-1:WVUP CTN (Low Power)
49-1:WTLH-FOX HD
49-2:WTLH-(The CW Plus)
Low power Analog:TV 35 Tallahassee (music vedios)
I normally pick up WABW-14 (GPTV) and Panama City's WMBB-13 and WJHG-7 when we used to be on analog but when we went to digital I cant pick them up any more it's depends on the weather. WABW-14 used to be a 5,000 watts on analog Tallahassee can pick up it up fine but on digital now WABW-DT digital singal is Moderate (not everyone picking it up).
6-1:CBS-HD WCTV
6-2:MYNTV
11-1:WFSU PBS 11-2:WFSU2 Florida Captial News 11-3:WFSU3 Creative 11-4:WFSU4 FKN
27-1-ABC WTXL
27-2: 24/7 Weather
40-1:WTWC-NBC HD
40-2:WTWC-SD
45-1:WVUP CTN (Low Power)
49-1:WTLH-FOX HD
49-2:WTLH-(The CW Plus)
Low power Analog:TV 35 Tallahassee (music vedios)
I normally pick up WABW-14 (GPTV) and Panama City's WMBB-13 and WJHG-7 when we used to be on analog but when we went to digital I cant pick them up any more it's depends on the weather. WABW-14 used to be a 5,000 watts on analog Tallahassee can pick up it up fine but on digital now WABW-DT digital singal is Moderate (not everyone picking it up).
Louis_009 said:
Actually, WABW was 5,000,000 watts analog, which was the maximum limit for analog UHF stations.
In digital, they drew RF channel 6. (WCTV is on RF channel 46, so there's no interference between the two) They're running about 11,000 watts which is very roughly 1/3 of the maximum for that channel and their antenna height. It's also a lot more susceptible to noise than their old RF 14 was. It's also susceptible to overload interference from non-commercial FM stations like WFSU and Way FM.
A quick word on terminology
I note several posters here identifying their local stations something like this -
"WXXI-DT (RF 16.1/16.2/16.3 VC 21.1/21.2/21/3)"
That's not quite right, and in fact is rather wrong, and here's why:
It's easy to assume that if you have a station that uses virtual major channel "21", but which actually broadcasts on RF channel 16, that the channels you see on your TV as 21.1, 21.2, 21.3 must really be somehow getting transmitted over discrete signals on "16.1," "16.2," etc.
The actual translation is more complex than that. What goes out on RF channel 16 is a single very fat bitstream (19.39 megabits/second) that gets divided up within your receiver into the individual program streams that you tune in. Those "transport streams" are actually identified by hexadecimal codes, so if you wanted to be really accurate about it, you might say that WXXI's 21.1 subchannel is "RF 16 - 0x0031" (though its audio actually travels as "RF 16 - 0x0034"!)
In practice, this is where "PSIP" comes in. That's another set of data transmitted over the ATSC bitstream, telling your DTV tuner how to combine those video and audio streams and how to identify them to you. By convention, stations actually use transport stream #3 for their "x.1" program, #4 for their "x.2" program, and so on - so it's perhaps somewhat more correct to say that "VC 21.1/21.2/21.3" on WXXI-DT are really "RF 16.3/16.4/16.5." If you look at Trip's RabbitEars listings, this is how he identifies the RF channels associated with each virtual channel. And depending on the brand of DTV tuner you use, you can sometimes tune these channels directly - on my Sony TV, for instance, I can punch in "16.4" and see the WXXI World channel that appears as virtual 21.2. (And if a station's PSIP is not configured properly or not working, that's sometimes the only way a station appears, if it appears at all on some tuners. In the case of one of our subchannels at WXXI-DT, we intentionally don't give it a virtual channel, since it's an audio-only stream intended only for internal use. So RF "16.7" appears as "16.7" on my Sony, but not at all on my Zenith/Insignia boxes or my $79 portable LCD set.)
But it's *still* more complicated than that, since stations can identify some or all of their program streams with the major channel number of a sister station. So if you're watching "30.x" in the Washington DC area, 30.1/2/3/4/5 are all coming from WNVC-DT on RF 24, while 30.6/7/8/9/10 all come from WNVT-DT on RF 30 from a separate location.
Here's the bottom line: all of this business about PSIP and program tables and hexadecimal stream identifiers and such is really deep inside baseball. Even for those of us in the business, some of these details are of little more interest than, say, the underlying IP address of the server that radio-info is using so we can all read these boards. And just like an IP address, the actual program streams and such can be changed on the fly without most users ever knowing.
Yes, it's sometimes important for us geeks to know the underlying RF channel on which we're receiving (or not receiving!) a signal. But it should generally suffice to say "WBBM-DT (RF 12/VC 2)" - and it's not even close to correct to say "WBBM-DT (RF 12.1/VC 2.1)"...and we all want to be correct, right?
I note several posters here identifying their local stations something like this -
"WXXI-DT (RF 16.1/16.2/16.3 VC 21.1/21.2/21/3)"
That's not quite right, and in fact is rather wrong, and here's why:
It's easy to assume that if you have a station that uses virtual major channel "21", but which actually broadcasts on RF channel 16, that the channels you see on your TV as 21.1, 21.2, 21.3 must really be somehow getting transmitted over discrete signals on "16.1," "16.2," etc.
The actual translation is more complex than that. What goes out on RF channel 16 is a single very fat bitstream (19.39 megabits/second) that gets divided up within your receiver into the individual program streams that you tune in. Those "transport streams" are actually identified by hexadecimal codes, so if you wanted to be really accurate about it, you might say that WXXI's 21.1 subchannel is "RF 16 - 0x0031" (though its audio actually travels as "RF 16 - 0x0034"!)
In practice, this is where "PSIP" comes in. That's another set of data transmitted over the ATSC bitstream, telling your DTV tuner how to combine those video and audio streams and how to identify them to you. By convention, stations actually use transport stream #3 for their "x.1" program, #4 for their "x.2" program, and so on - so it's perhaps somewhat more correct to say that "VC 21.1/21.2/21.3" on WXXI-DT are really "RF 16.3/16.4/16.5." If you look at Trip's RabbitEars listings, this is how he identifies the RF channels associated with each virtual channel. And depending on the brand of DTV tuner you use, you can sometimes tune these channels directly - on my Sony TV, for instance, I can punch in "16.4" and see the WXXI World channel that appears as virtual 21.2. (And if a station's PSIP is not configured properly or not working, that's sometimes the only way a station appears, if it appears at all on some tuners. In the case of one of our subchannels at WXXI-DT, we intentionally don't give it a virtual channel, since it's an audio-only stream intended only for internal use. So RF "16.7" appears as "16.7" on my Sony, but not at all on my Zenith/Insignia boxes or my $79 portable LCD set.)
But it's *still* more complicated than that, since stations can identify some or all of their program streams with the major channel number of a sister station. So if you're watching "30.x" in the Washington DC area, 30.1/2/3/4/5 are all coming from WNVC-DT on RF 24, while 30.6/7/8/9/10 all come from WNVT-DT on RF 30 from a separate location.
Here's the bottom line: all of this business about PSIP and program tables and hexadecimal stream identifiers and such is really deep inside baseball. Even for those of us in the business, some of these details are of little more interest than, say, the underlying IP address of the server that radio-info is using so we can all read these boards. And just like an IP address, the actual program streams and such can be changed on the fly without most users ever knowing.
Yes, it's sometimes important for us geeks to know the underlying RF channel on which we're receiving (or not receiving!) a signal. But it should generally suffice to say "WBBM-DT (RF 12/VC 2)" - and it's not even close to correct to say "WBBM-DT (RF 12.1/VC 2.1)"...and we all want to be correct, right?
Robnoxious said:
For now, LiveWell HD is for the most part, useless most of the time (especially with all the reruns of the same shows). For now, only the O&O stations carry it. ABC hopes that overtime, the affiliates (and non ABC stations) carry it as well, and contribute programming to the channel. The only program that WLS-TV makes for LiveWell is Let's Dish, with Chris Koetke. He's been well known on Chicago TV for several years by appearing on WGN-TV during the Noon news (or now, it's Mid-day news), and recently, been on WLS-TV for some parts of the 11am news when he isn't taping his show for LiveWell HD, or teaching at Kendall College in Chicago. His show is worthwhile. So is Greg Aiello's Motion. Advice For Life is a hit or miss. The other shows I could careless.
I don't know about other markets, but WLS-TV has filled in some of the time with repeats of some of their own programming, such as Chicagoing (don't know what this show is), 190 North (various stuff about Chicago, whether it's shopping, dining, or entertainment), and re-airing the 6 & 10pm news a half hour after the live broadcast. All of this is between the times that LiveWell HD has no programming scheduled.
As for airing in 720p; ABC stations can only air LiveWell HD in 720p if they have the bandwidth to do so. WLS-TV is pushing it by having their main channel, plus LiveWell in 720p, and AccuWeather in 480i. According to wikipedia, Flint, MI's WJRT-TV doesn't have the bandwidth to carry LiveWell in 720p, that they have to downconvert it to 480i.
Back to the subject at hand (more DTV disappointments):
EPG's. In my neck of the woods most, but not all, stations have a functioning EPG. Universally they have a few problems:
1. They are not always available for whatever reason. Other times they take several minutes to display after switching to the channel.
2. They don't carry much information. Most of what you get is the program name. That's all. No description, date of production, stars.....nada. Not even whether program is first run or repeat. Pretty useless.
Just another empty DTV promise.
EPG's. In my neck of the woods most, but not all, stations have a functioning EPG. Universally they have a few problems:
1. They are not always available for whatever reason. Other times they take several minutes to display after switching to the channel.
2. They don't carry much information. Most of what you get is the program name. That's all. No description, date of production, stars.....nada. Not even whether program is first run or repeat. Pretty useless.
Just another empty DTV promise.
I have Time Warner but do like to travel and do a little DX'ing to see what I can get off air. I had a Radio Shack 3" TV (still do but it's worthless except for Canadian and low power stations). I recently gave myself a little early Christmas present. A Curtis 7" digital TV/monitor I bought at Big Lots for $100. It works great except I don't get any of the Rochester stations (or any other cities). WHEC comes in occasionally with their sub weather channel but nothing else. Most of Rochester's transmitters are less than 20 miles away. I do live in an area where I have been told off air reception is very poor.- Good thing I have cable. However, before the June switch I received all the Rochester channels and some Buffalo & Watertown stations on my little Radio Shack set. I used a portable Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna which was amazingly powerful. So if cable goes out I still will not haveTV and I won't get WXXI's sub channels-which is one of the reasons I bought the new TV.
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