Hurricane Ian coverage

[Greg Strickland]

...My cousins used to live in Juneau, Alaska. They get tremendous wind storms up there so it is common to bury telephone poles in the front and rear and tie them across the roof with heavy stranded cable. You won't see mobile homes shredded by storms up there...

landtuna that is a good idea. Thank you for sharing it and giving me the opportunity to appreciate smart thinking.

Seen frequently in Florida is another good idea for mobile homes. That is the slanting tin roof constructed a few feet above the mobile home. This is sometimes built on telephone poles, but mostly with wood frame. This keeps the heat down and provides a level of rain protection, which could minimize rust and degradation from rain on the mobile home. For the security conscious the frame provides an opportunity for a fence. It looks like country hick stuff to some who are not from the area, but it is actually very smart.

Another aspect of Florida that is somewhat disconcerting is the mound septic system. It is used when the water table is high. The mobile home is mounted on wood or block frame with the floor a couple feet higher than the top of the mound. There will be a slanting PVC pipe running in the air (on a frame) from the mobile home to the top of the mound. Now, from an esthetic standpoint you might want the mound some distance from the mobile home. But from a cost and efficiency standpoint the mound will probably be close by, a prominent feature of the back yard.

All this and mosquitos too!

But the joking aside, I visited a mobile home down there that was spotlessly clean, and the air conditioning was working perfectly. Crisp and cool with low humidity.

 

[landtuna]

Well, Arizona has a bunch of critters in it that obviously don't want you or any other human being there and can make life miserable for humans at any opportunity, specifically scorpions and snakes. Even the best-known plants in Arizona will cause you pain if you so much as touch them. I say evacuate the entire state and turn it into a refuge for poisonous, stinging, biting and prickly fauna and flora.

You are not a well informed person and I assume you've never lived in the desert southwest. I've been here virtually my entire life and I can count the number of snakes I've seen on the fingers of one hand. Yes we have scorpions but if you don't stick your hands into their living quarters you need not fear them. OTOH we don't have the much more common pests such as mosquitoes, fire ants, very dangerous wildlife, including common poisonous plants such as Oak or Ivy.

Everyone who doesn't understand the desert most always complains about the heat BUT our cooling systems are more robust and except for mountainous areas we don't need to run the heater all winter. Plus, the heat doesn't tend to blow our houses down and makes enjoying our swimming pools and patios all the better. While people in FL are sweating through the humidity we are reaching for our long sleeve shirts.

In summary, don't post about subjects which you obviously do not understand.

Oh, and we can buy homeowners insurance too.

 

[landtuna]

Seen frequently in Florida is another good idea for mobile homes. That is the slanting tin roof constructed a few feet above the mobile home. This is sometimes built on telephone poles, but mostly with wood frame. This keeps the heat down and provides a level of rain protection, which could minimize rust and degradation from rain on the mobile home. It looks like country hick stuff to some who are not from the area, but it is actually very smart.

At first glance it might seem like a good idea but that raised second roof is like a parachute. Let the wind get underneath it and it could take the real roof right off. Any idea what a mobile home having one of these compares with one that doesn't?

 

[Greg Strickland]

I don't know how it compares. I have just observed it. I know that it reduces direct heating from the sun, since the mobile home is in the shade. The tin roof is 3 or 4 feet above the mobile home roof, not connected to it. As I understand it certain roof pitches (angles) minimize sail and lifting effect in wind. And I suppose a semi-hip roof could be used, which further minimizes the wind risk. As you probably know, the gables are a weak point in hurricane survival of stick-built wood houses, lots of wind load on that surface.

 

[Yabadabado1]

Note it's being listed as Post Cyclone according to this update.

Any relation to Post Malone?

 

[davideduardo]

You are WAY over the top my friend. Hurricanes on the FL peninsula are a common occurrence and their residential codes are clearly insufficient. The fastest way to die is to live in a mobile/manufactured home in FL and stick homes are not much better. What really pisses me off is that someone has to pay for them to rebuild only to get knocked down again and again. We either pay thru taxes or rising insurance premiums (not to mention the cost of keeping victims alive, fed and sheltered while the state gets

But if you look at any specific area of Florida, such as the western Panhandle, the Keys, Dade and Broward, the Orlando are, the Big Bend, Jacsonville, etc. each gets neither less nor more than the MS coast, the AL coast, the Houston/Beaumont area or the Lower Rio Grande Valley area of Texas. The one area of the US that gets far more is Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands

While high-end construction in Puerto Rico is reinforced concrete, lower income housing is wood frame with "zinc" roofs.

And the manufactured homes in FL are no different than the ones in Pascagoula or New Iberia or Corpus Christi.

The other places you mention in the USA or territories do get severe storms but not every year (and yes, I note that Ian was worse than most).

Based on misles of coastline, FL gets no more nor no less than LA, AL or Texas... but much less than PE and the USVI

I don't care about those places outside the USA because they are not our problem.

But I mention them because anywhere in the coastal Caribbean, from Port-au-Prince to South Padre Island is vulnerable.

And while you point out that SoCal is subject to earthquakes they have taken mitigating steps to lessen the risk and damage should the big one hit.

And just like this hurricane was exceptionally strong, nothing will protect CA against "the Big One" such as the the Fort Tejon incident in 1857

 

[landtuna]

But if you look at any specific area of Florida, such as the western Panhandle, the Keys, Dade and Broward, the Orlando are, the Big Bend, Jacsonville, etc. each gets neither less nor more than the MS coast, the AL coast, the Houston/Beaumont area or the Lower Rio Grande Valley area of Texas. The one area of the US that gets far more is Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands

Of course. They are sticking right out there in open ocean in "hurricane alley".

While high-end construction in Puerto Rico is reinforced concrete, lower income housing is wood frame with "zinc" roofs.

Just like most other places in the 2nd and 3rd worlds. Out here on the reservations they just toss a bunch of old tires on the roof to keep it in place during windy times.

And the manufactured homes in FL are no different than the ones in Pascagoula or New Iberia or Corpus Christi.

What is different is what the owners do to lessen the impact of nasty weather. It seems the "before" photos I've been seeing don't look like the owners did much, if anything, in advance of the storm warning.

Based on misles of coastline, FL gets no more nor no less than LA, AL or Texas... but much less than PE and the USVI

What makes FL different is the width of the peninsula. Just as we are seeing right now the hurricane doesn't have far to travel overland before reaching the open ocean and gaining strength again. Once a storm hits the other cities it is out of reach of water so loses strength more quickly.

But I mention them because anywhere in the coastal Caribbean, from Port-au-Prince to South Padre Island is vulnerable.

Yup. Always a risk anywhere in that region. The problem is it happens virtually every year.

And just like this hurricane was exceptionally strong, nothing will protect CA against "the Big One" such as the the Fort Tejon incident in 1857

Obviously it was a biggie but because it was then lightly developed only one person died (from a collapsing adobe house). Note to self: never use adobe in earthquake country.

Every earthquake CA suffers stirs more and more damage containment efforts. While the "Big One" would cause a great deal of damage no doubt it wouldn't be a complete disaster (except for people trying to get to and from work).

 

[Greg Strickland]

... It seems the "before" photos I've been seeing don't look like the owners did much, if anything, in advance of the storm warning ...

I agree. The before photos are more unsettling to me than the after photos, because the after photo is the logical and expected result. Many residents have had years to make incremental (yet cumulative) improvements. Municipal government entities have had many decades to make storm surge protection an ongoing project. I have empathy for the suffering and loss, but there is no accounting for ignorance or denial.

I read your comment Harvey Dogg and edited my post

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

After every natural disaster in the USA, there are insensitive human beings who comment on how stupid people were to live there.

It doesn't matter if it's Ian in Florida, an earthquake in California, a huge forest fire, or a flood somewhere else. Every damn time!

 

[tbolt909]

I agree. The before photos are more unsettling to me than the after photos, because the after photo is the logical and expected result. Many residents have had years to make incremental (yet cumulative) improvements. Municipal government entities have had many decades to make storm surge protection an ongoing project. I have empathy for the suffering and loss, but there is no accounting for ignorance or denial.

There are always a certain percentage of people who ignore the warnings. Some people in Fort Myers said "I thought Tampa was getting the direct hit". Evacuation warnings were given well in advance. It was made clear that this was a massive storm not to be trifled with. The entire West Coast of Florida should have been on high alert.

You can give people information, but ultimately they will do what they want. Some don't have the means to leave (Like Katrina in New Orleans). Others just make bad decisions and have to face the consequences. Many folks still deny Climate Change. Ignorance may be bliss, but the price is steep...

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Power crews restore most power in the Triangle; less than 4K without electricity statewide

Power crews are working diligently to get power restored to all customers.

abc11.com

Hurricane Ian hits parts of North Carolina.

 

[Greg Strickland]

Hurricane IAN Imagery

If you are inclined, some location specific online content can be compared with the images.

 

[Mikey Radio]

Many residents have had years to make incremental (yet cumulative) improvements. Municipal government entities have had many decades to make storm surge protection an ongoing project. I have empathy for the suffering and loss, but there is no accounting for ignorance or denial.

If you look, the codes and building standards are there. Most Florida communities have building codes in place that regulate everything from interior bracing for roofs so they can't easily be blown off by a powerful storm, to how wooden privacy fences or fences that don't easily allow wind or surging seas to pass through must be installed - Size of the boards, type of screws and fasterners, how deep the support posts must be placed, how and where screws and attachments must be placed, etc. Much of that is to prevent storm damage. However, there are a few issues: 1) Most people ignore the building permit process because it's so cumbersome. They want to install a new fence or entrance door or impact windows over the weekend. for instance. They don't want the process to take 6 months and they think it's silly to hire an engineer to plot out a privacy fence when they can just buy what they need at Home Depot and quickly/quietly install it themselves. There are also requirements for inspection along the way, once post holes are dug, once posts are placed and before the dirt is backfilled, and once the fence is complete. It can lead to a months-long process that many find frustrating. 2) The permitting offices are overwhelmed so the process of permitting and inspecting and signing off can take months, even for simple jobs. Many people just give up and do the work without the permit as those who play by the rules are stuck with long delays and lots of expense for engineers and licensed contractors to do stuff they believe they should be able to do on their own. 3) Because permitting offices are overwhelmed, there's little time for policing and enforcement. 4) If they know mobile homes and trailers simply won't stand up to a storm, they may want to ban those completely or heavily regulate their construction methods or installation.

The codes and permitting process mentioned above are in place for windows and doors to structural modifications, plumbing, electrical, installation of fences that don't allow wind or surge waters to easily pass through, etc. IMO if they'd make the processes faster and simpler and hire more people they could get exactly what's needed...Safe and properly maintained homes and properties which are built and maintained to a proper code, and people who would then be willing to work within the permit system, provided they could carry out at least simpler projects in a matter of days or a few weeks, rather than agonizing months.

Even the municipalities themselves sometimes get caught up. I remember Miami installing storm walls after Ivan. An inspector determined that at least part of the wall was installed without the proper permitting and inspections in place. He made them tear it out and start over. Great loss of time and $$ as a result.

 

[Mikey Radio]

After every natural disaster in the USA, there are insensitive human beings who comment on how stupid people were to live there.

It doesn't matter if it's Ian in Florida, an earthquake in California, a huge forest fire, or a flood somewhere else. Every damn time.

Most are armchair quarterbacks who don't always make the best decisions in their own lives. In many cases If find that the ones who are the most opinionated about what everyone else should be doing, or who constantly second guess everyone else and explain how they personally would have done it so much better, are the last persons who should be doing so considering their own situations and the fact that they can't even leave their keyboards long enough to simply clean their house.

There are always a certain percentage of people who ignore the warnings. Some people in Fort Myers said "I thought Tampa was getting the direct hit". Evacuation warnings were given well in advance. It was made clear that this was a massive storm not to be trifled with. The entire West Coast of Florida should have been on high alert.

You can give people information, but ultimately they will do what they want. Some don't have the means to leave (Like Katrina in New Orleans). Others just make bad decisions and have to face the consequences. Many folks still deny Climate Change. Ignorance may be bliss, but the price is steep...

People stay for a number of reasons. Some believed the storm would hit elsewhere. Others didn't think it'd be as bad or strong as it was. Many don't want to leave beloved pets or ill family members behind (you'd be surprised by the number of people who will not leave their homes unless they can be assured that their pets will go with them and be fully looked after.. Even in eminent life or death situations, it can be a non-starter for some). Others are simply stubborn or don't believe harm will ever come to them. Also, it can be tough for some to fathom that the recovery and just getting basics like power and water, much less repairs, can sometimes be a months-long process. Basic storm prep and stocking up on groceries is great, but when there is no power grid in a given community to speak of once a storm passes through because all the power poles were uprooted or snapped like twigs, thousands of homes are damaged and power companies and insurance adjusters start triaging and working through everything, the immediate impact from the storm is sometimes only the beginning.

 

[Greg Strickland]

I agree Mikey Radio. Scanning over the imagery in SW Punta Gorda, it appears newer and presumably code compliant construction made out pretty well structurally, holding its form. Not considering lanais and carport add-ons. Those are fair game for a storm.
I would never leave my cats behind, cat carriers ready.

 

[tbolt909]

Most are armchair quarterbacks who don't always make the best decisions in their own lives. In many cases If find that the ones who are the most opinionated about what everyone else should be doing, or who constantly second guess everyone else and explain how they personally would have done it so much better, are the last persons who should be doing so considering their own situations and the fact that they can't even leave their keyboards long enough to simply clean their house.


People stay for a number of reasons. Some believed the storm would hit elsewhere. Others didn't think it'd be as bad or strong as it was. Many don't want to leave beloved pets or ill family members behind (you'd be surprised by the number of people who will not leave their homes unless they can be assured that their pets will go with them and be fully looked after.. Even in eminent life or death situations, it can be a non-starter for some). Others are simply stubborn or don't believe harm will ever come to them. Also, it can be tough for some to fathom that the recovery and just getting basics like power and water, much less repairs, can sometimes be a months-long process. Basic storm prep and stocking up on groceries is great, but when there is no power grid in a given community to speak of once a storm passes through because all the power poles were uprooted or snapped like twigs, thousands of homes are damaged and power companies and insurance adjusters start triaging and working through everything, the immediate impact from the storm is sometimes only the beginning.

Hoping for the best isn't strategic planning. Dire warnings were given far in advance. It's not just about riding out and surviving the storm. When the infrastructure is destroyed, the area will be uninhabitable for weeks or months.

Too many people think the media "overhypes" hurricanes and then they whine when the devastation comes. The aftermath certainly isn't Fake News. Property shouldn't be worth dying over. Florida has always been in the Hurricane Hot Zone, so being uninformed is not an option. Storms are getting stronger due to Climate Change, so unfortunately many structures won't hold up no matter how well they are reinforced...

 

[Mikey Radio]

Too many people think the media "overhypes" hurricanes and then they whine when the devastation comes. The aftermath certainly isn't Fake News. Property shouldn't be worth dying over...

Agreed, but part of that is the fault of the news media, isn't it? Too many times they've over-hyped storms and other weather events that turned out to be nothing - and if you watched the more objective weather sources rather than listening to the hyped up drama on some "news" networks, viewers knew there was really nothing there. I remember watching one of the major 24/7 news networks a few years ago when a tropical storm was predicted for Florida. They had people positioned in several cities. The Weather Channel and WeatherUnderground and others had been predicting nothing major at all. That 24/7 news channel had a guy positioned at a boat dock. One of the boats came untied and was floating around. They guy was running around and yelling as if he were calling a touchdown play in the Superbowl: "Oh my gosh! Look at this, this boat has come loose and now it's churning and thrashing around...This is high drama folks!". The boat owner then calmly walked past and said "Excuse me, can you move out of the way so I can hook the mooring line and secure my boat?" There's also a pretty well-known video on Youtube where a bundled up weather reporter was in a storm, yelling about how windy and gusty it was, and leaning and repeatedly pushing his body into the strong wind. Meanwhile, 2 teenage boys could be seen calmly walking behind him in shorts and t-shirts in a normal fashion - clearly illustrating that nothing was really happening.

It's the equivalent of crying wolf. They try to hype up every event to make it sound like the storm of the century to build up drama and excitement and ratings, only for viewers to discover it was all overblown and it was yet another minor storm. Then when the big one comes and they start hyping it up in exactly the same manner, no one takes it seriously and people have become numb to it. Again, the news channels and media can blame themselves in many instances.

 

[tbolt909]

If people are numb, it's because they are lazy. FOX "News" delivers red meat to its base, not factual information. Sure, media is driven by ratings. Reliable information is available, but many people choose to politicize everything. Some weather events are more extreme than the forecast (the recent Kentucky floods).

100 years ago, you would get no warning of an incoming hurricane or tornado. Weather forecasting is now pretty reliable, but variables can still change the outcome. Reputable sources give good information, but some people stay in their silos. Trust but Verify is a good rule of thumb...

 

[vchimpanzee]

Power crews restore most power in the Triangle; less than 4K without electricity statewide

Power crews are working diligently to get power restored to all customers.

abc11.com

Hurricane Ian hits parts of North Carolina.

I don't know the specifics yet but where I live it's just a mess and I'm not aware of power outages in the immediate area. There are always power outages some places in this type of storm system.

I got a call from Duke Energy warning me to be prepared. My church calls people for various reasons and we were told who to call if our home had damage.

Louise Sciavone on NPR called it "Fort Myer" on three separate newscasts this morning. Isn't it bad enough when your city goes through something like this without the name being mispronounced?

 

[Deleted User]

OK guys I live in North Fort Myers, if you have any questions feel free to ask

My house survived, as did the 1299 other houses around me, half built in 1996, and the rest like mine built in 2006 to a higher standard.

We are maybe 6 miles inland. no canals or rivers near us so no storm surge.... others were not so lucky

I lost some screens on my pool cage, others like the people on the other side of the street from me had their cages ripped from their homes... a minor inconvenience compared to the people who have real problems.

This was a 155 MPH storm, 2 MPH from a Cat5 storm

Many are saying it is a thousand year event, as it will only happen once in a thousand years. When you see building plans and site plans, flood maps, etc you will see the term 100 year storm, and you design for that contingency.

I owned a house on Fort Myers Beach for 15 years. I saw big storms come... and go... and the damage from them

Same with my house on the water in Marshfield MA, storms come, storms go, you can't hold back the ocean without a lot of money and planning

Some of my favorite places on the planet, that have survived for decades and then some were washed into the ocean.... there is nothing left but an outline

Interstate 75 and US 41 near me are closed due to the flooding and a need to inspect the bridges.... I-75 is a fairly new road, it was built as an evacuation route, it is the main (only) interstate highway on Florida's west coast....

41 runs parallel to 75 so that is not an option, so they are sending all the I-75 traffic inland to some dinky 2 lane bridge beyond the surge damage and flooding, and most of those bridges can't support the weight of a 80K pound TT trying to haul goods into the effected areas.

WINK TV had their studio and plant flooded.... who knows when they will be back....