Hy Lit Interview Rescheduled

[Kyle D]

In case you didn't hear last week's show, our interview with Hy Lit has been rescheduled for this Friday's program. Hy will be on with us at the beginning of the show (10pm EDT), and will be on for at least the first hour.You can hear the show on our website, www.radioracket.com. It will also be simulcast on Hy's website at www.hylitradio.com."Hyski" is ready to talk about numerous topics, including taking payola. If you can't call in, please e-mail any questions you want us to ask Hy, or you can IM them to us during the show.Hope to see you all on Friday!

 

[qtpieislit]

                        Actually, the payola issue dates back to the late '50, when it was common practice in the industry to engage in these practices, as this was not an illegal statute yet. This was a time when the record companies wanted top billing for their artists. However, after the 1961 senate investigations, the disc jockey no longer controlled the music as 'music directors' where implemented at the broadcast facilities. Although the practice of payola continued, in did not affect the 'on-air' sound so much as it did alter the stations' published music surveys. Hy will indicate, that his popularity was based on his innate ability to pick the hits and never really played anything that did not meet that criteria, or that was not consistent with what his audience ultimately desired the most. And his ratings bare that out.   There are some rather humorous stories that surround this venerable circus of record company promotion men, which at the time had access to the studio when the D.J. was on the air.Sam LitPresident/CEOwww.HyLitRadio.com™[email protected] 

 

[hotline joe]

Does every post about Hy now have to be followed by a post from his son to make sure it's 'spun' correctly?

 

[fred flintstone]

Corrections on the Payola Scandal

Actually, the practice and the term "payola" dates back much further than that to when music publishers payed big bands and dance orchestras to include songs in their sets to promote the sales of sheet music (one the dominant form of revenue in the music industry).The payola scandal broke in 1959, after comments by a former Storer Broadcasting DJ from Detroit in a LIFE magazine article. Congressional hearings were held and as a result FCC rules were changed in 1960. Storer Broadcasting stations (including WIBG) were particularly hard hit. Storer dropped the entire Wibbage air-staff, replacing them with refugees of the payola scandal from other markets - while most Wibbage jocks sat-out the scandal's aftermath in other cities before coming back to town. The same thing happened at other Storer Top 40 stations. Some observers have associated Storer jocks' susceptibility to payola offers with Storer's reputed "cheapness" and low salaries. Storer, more than most operators, cleaned house by getting current jocks off the air. Storer later brought of them many back when the heat was off. Storer also fired the "anchor" of their Detroit TV station for doing a story on the payola scandal (he also came back a couple of years later).

...the disc jockey no longer controlled the music as 'music directors' where implemented at the broadcast facilities. Although the practice of payola continued, in did not affect the 'on-air' sound so much as it did alter the stations' published music surveys. Hy will indicate, that his popularity was based on his innate ability to pick the hits and never really played anything that did not meet that criteria, or that was not consistent with what his audience ultimately desired the most.

You point out (correctly) that jocks no longer picked the music but add Hy Lit's popularity was based on his ability to pick hits. Sorry. He wasn't picking music any more, remember? And Top 40 jocks NEVER did have complete freedom from playlists, but they could, before the scandal, lean on a particular recording or "introduce" a just released cut. Hy Litt was a good jock but his large share of audience was due to the explosive growth of the teen market and rock music in the late 50's, the general popularity of the Top 40 format, and the fact that he was without any real competition in this market until WFIL flipped to to Top 40 (unless you consider the Geator or a couple of R&B jocks on flea-bite sticks most people could not receive as competition). Hy Lit got big shares because teens were the bulk of the radio audience after 7 pm and he was the only local Top 40 jock. There is also some evidence (as discussed on an earlier Radio Racket interview with Rollye James) that numbers for Top 40 stations may have been inflated in the then-prevalent telephone coincidental ratings surveys because teen agers in the house were most likely to answer the phone.

Does every post about Hy now have to be followed by a post from his son to make sure it's 'spun' correctly?

Maybe the "RJ Virus" is spreading.

 

[qtpieislit]

Real competition? Let me describe for you real competition. In all actuality, the radio dial was used remarkably different in those days, as 'AM' clear channel signals were not only clearly heard, but an integral part of the viable listening spectrum. For example, there was consistent quality signal grade reception in Philadelphia, on  77/WABC, 66/WNBC, 89/WLS, 1000/WCFL, 1520/WKBW, 800/CKLW, 1190/WOWO, 1100/WWWE, 900/CHML, 81/WGY, 84/WHAS, 1140/WWVA, 1110/WBT, 700/WLW, 1090/KAAY, 1220/WGAR, and 1580/CKLM, 830/WCCO, among others, all of which were 'TOP 40' powerhouse stations. As 'AM' signal were more resolute, and engineering ground systems were intact, plus combined with the sensitivity of the current day manufacture of Amplitude Modulation receivers, especially in cars, 'AM Rock Radio' competition was an overwhelmingly dramatic dynamic experience. Perhaps you had to be there.Sam LitPresident/CEOwww.HyLitRadio.com™[email protected]                        

 

[fred flintstone]

I was.Then - as now - there were a few radio geeks into DXing. The vast majority ot the Top 40 audience listened to THE local station, the station EVERYBODY listened to. Most of the powerhouse stations you mentioned were not Top 40 in the Wibbage era (pre-WFIL). WLS and WABC were not Top 40 until 1960. Cousin Brucie did make some in-roads in parts of the Philadelphia market in the early 60's. WLS did have out of market listeners in Northern Michigan, Northern Wisconsin and other rural areas where local Top 40 was not available (or not very good) but it was not a factor here. Dick Biondi on WWKB, Buffalo did have a cult following in this area before he left for Chicago. WCFL did not become Top 40 until 1966; CKLW in 1967 - both post-WFIL. The others you mention were adult full-service stations. While some, like Group W's WOWO and KYW in Cleveland (it wasn't WWWA until NBC took back the station in 1965) did play some "chicken rock" cuts - they were not Top 40 in either playlist or presentation. It does say something about Hy Lit's following that out of market listening was insignifcant in that period (1956-1966), in contrast to many smaller markets. It does not change the fact that he was the only Top 40 game in town before WFIL. And, let's face, the Wibbage era ended when WFIL flipped to the Drake-Chennault format.

 

[Rockin Rob]

Altho' the point could be raised that WIBG was notorious for a piss poor night signal (which exists even to this day). And remember, back then radios didn't have digital readouts. So, teens looking for music after 990AM went to night pattern and trying to find WFIL might have found WABC by accident. It is recalled in one of the Joel Whitburn books that Shelly Fabares lived in Lansdale, but listened to WABC!!!!!!!!!! MusicRadio 77 was a bigger deal, both in NYC and the surrounding areas with that blowtorch of a signal, than many give them credit for.

 

[fred flintstone]

Out of Market Radio

WOR did register in Philadelphia ratings in the 50s and 60s and ended up on a lot of pre-sets. WABC was much less a factor. Their signal into the Philly market was/is not as good and they did not have an unduplicated format (as did WOR).Shelley Farbares was born and grew up in Santa Monica. Her movie credits go back to 1955 and she started doing the Donna Reed Show in 1958 and WABC did not flip to Top 40 until 1960. WINS, WMGM (aka WHN, WEVD, now WEPN) and WMCA were the early Top 40 stations in New York.

 

[qtpieislit]

The term 'Top 40' was really an evolution in progress emanating from the inception of 'Rock & Roll', and the early heritage stations that we have all come to relish. 'Top 40' didn't just pop on over night. There was a gradual process that derived from the clear channel frequencies in many of the major markets. For example, late at night, on an otherwise full service station, some components were greatly influential in vast geographic areas. For example, I point to a ratings success in an earlier post: In 1957, Hy Lit began as air talent on 1060/WRCV Philadelphia. Hy was hired away from WHAT/1340 radio, which had become a resounding rating success. Therefore taking his growing "Rock & Roll kingdom" show to the 10:30-2:00am time slot, on WRCV. NBC at the time also required Hy to do an additional show called Sinatra and friends, from 5:30-6:30 pm, under the name Johnny Dollar. All this to compliment the NBC red network feeds and news top & bottom of every hour. Ironically, Sinatra and friends was a success, as well as the Rock & Roll kingdom, which was primarily doo-wop & soul (known as race music at the time). In the true spirit of NBC, the big wigs from N.Y. traveled to Philadelphia to see why this local phenom was so popular, not only in Philadelphia but and as far away as Boston late at night, where Rock & Roll was initially banned. (Sky wave on the 50,000 watt 1060kc B-1 clear status channel actually worked when the ground system was maintained). NBC, not quite up to date on the growing trends, concluded that the Rock & Roll kingdom should add some Sinatra & friends. It just so happened that WIBG had called Hy, day's earlier, requesting his presence. Sam LitPresident/CEOwww.HyLitRadio.com™[email protected]

 

[fred flintstone]

The "full service" clear channel stations were almost all still network affiliates (the notable exception was the Group W stations) and still doing block programming. Yes, some of these stations did "race music" or "teen" programs in off hours but they continued to run network comedy, drama and variety program through much of the 50s (old time radio did not disappear all at once; it was being phased out up to 1962). The Top 40 format was adopted on weaker independent stations like Wibbage (which did not get a power increase to its current 50kw until 1959) which had nothing to lose and were operated by scrappier broadcasters like Storer, Storz and McLendon.Even so, although people could listen to the big out of area 50kw stations, outside of rural areas they mostly did not listen (except for a few radio geeks - like now).

 

[qtpieislit]

   Actually, the 50's take you back to a pre-transistor time, when the automobile radio had the super sensitive scan function that stopped at practically every receivable frequency, particularly at night, when the radio was rich with active broadcast content and ‘popular music stations’. One did not have to be a social recluse to recognize the wide choice and the vast harvest of radio stations at your finger tips. Substantially large amounts of fan mail and letters from active listeners, local and beyond, seemingly bare that out. Hy has indicated that not only did 1060kc have listener activity from other cities, but 990kc also had its share of sky wave listener activity. I guess, perhaps you had to be there. Then again, perhaps you had to be in the rural areas outside of the metropolitan areas, where there was no dominant, if any local stations, to experience the charge, anticipation, and excitement of picking up a major broadcast talent.          *990kc Philadelphia was heard as far away as England at night. With the antenna array tuned critically directional to the east, the 50kw D-DA/10kw D-N signal is actually amplified in that direction, and took a mean sky wave bounce. Effectively, and Rtetro perhaps can verify, that, effectively 990/AM puts 150kw in the direction of the Jersey Shore and beyond.Sam LitPresident/CEOwww.HyLitRadio.com™[email protected]

 

[Kyle D]

Hopefully we'll be able to continue this discussion on the show tonight.Just a reminder that the program will be simulcast both at Audio 18 and at HyLitRadio.com, so if the standard feed is maxed out feel free to listen to check out the interview in high-fidelity at Hy and Sam's own site!Thanks, and looking forward to some fun tonight!

 

[Kyle D]

Shawn-We expected a full server, so we wanted to let people know that they could go over to Hy's site and catch the interview. If you see that as spam, so be it. We're not going to change your mind.This thread had no new posts for almost a full 24-hours when I added the information before the show last night, so I think Sam & Fred were done for the time being (Especially since Sam was due in our studio any minute).Do you ever put up a post where you're not whining or complaining about someone/something?

 

[fred flintstone]

Shawn, in all fairness, I think my exchange with Sam Lit had pretty much run its course.

I don't think Kyle's post qualifies as SPAM, however I can see after posts over the last few weeks from Kyle, Sam Lit and others - plus all the RJ posts - it could start to seem like SPAM.

Personally, I enjoyed hearing from Hy Lit and I hope they will be able to schedule more "blast from the past" interviews with people who can talk about their careers and about how radio used to be (as well as interviews on what's happening today in radio). I hope Radio Racket will also save the Hy Lit interview and audio of any other historical interviews; they could be a great oral history resource. We've already lost most of the people who were active in radio's "golden age" and now we are losing people from the "silver age" of AM Top 40, MOR, Full Service, Country and R&B personality radio. There must be some great stories to be told.

 

[odomski]

In terms of "complaining," is there a thread without your friend Julius whining and complaining about something? The answer to that is "no." In that case, I guess I'm no different than him. But May's complaining is tolerated around here. Legit complaints from legit broadcasting employees are not accepted. Sobeit.

I'm happy to hear that you got a Philly radio legend on your show finally. It seems that the "kinks were knocked out" so to speak...and the interview went on as planned. I applaud your efforts in getting Mr. Lit as a guest. I met Hy a few times when I was little (my mother and I would see him out on remotes), and he was always nice and found time to speak with people. I wish I had been able to listen to the interview. However, I have publicly told George that I will not listen or participate...because I refuse give you more bait for your panel's insults and dumbfounded and false accusations of me calling your show and hanging up. Also, I'm happy that Julius won't participate either. It seems that Julius and I are on the same page, in terms of not listening or participating in the show.

I feel all the Kyle and R.J. posts should have been classified as "spam" because it seems that's all we've seen in recent weeks. I guess since the Philly radio scene is so boring anymore, the board has to be filled with Radio Racket and R.J. posts just to keep the site's traffic numbers up (which I can understand from the R-I point of view, if that's the case). You people are going to do what you want to do anyway. I understand you have to find any way possible to promote your show (and that's totally fine), but I feel we don't need to be reminded about the show in almost every post on this board. It seems the RR folks are always finding a way to sneak a show promo into a particular thread (despite the show promo being "off-topic"). As the saying goes, "By Any Means Necessary."

 

[Kyle D]

Hey Shawn-

Very true. Juilus does complain. But there is a difference. He complains about radio (albeit usually the same topics), while you complain about the people posting - usually Julius.

As for the show, we've had many big guests. Hy may be what you term as the first "legend", but we've also had topical guests from Philly radio that were in the news that week, ie.-Phil Neuman.

As for the post of mine that you are claiming was "spam" earlier in this thread, my post was on topic. The name of the thread is "Hy Lit Interview Rescheduled". Technically, the other posts in the thread we're "off-topic", but a conversation and debate ensued and the thread took on a new life of it's own. All we wanted to do was make sure that everyone that wanted to hear the interview could do so, by reminding them that if our server was at the limit that they could hear it on Hy's site. That's all.

Trust me, we'd like more to be happening in Philly radio right now, as we'd have a lot more to talk about! As for us saying it was you that was calling and hanging up on one of our shows, we were just taking a situation and making light of it. Of course we had no idea if it was you or not. Allow me to apologize for us all since you seem upset about it. Although, I could think of worse things to be accused of.

Julius is listening to the show, he just can't listen live or call because he can't be on the computer or phone after 10pm. He is catching us on the replays, and judging by the correspondence I've had with him, he's enjoying the show. Hopefully he'll be able to take part in the future, because like it or not, he's very passionate about Philadelphia radio.

I'm of course aware that you've had some problems with George in the past, which I assume has something to do with you not liking posts about our show. Having only met you briefly once (in the newsroom shortly after I was hired in May 2001), my only opinions about you come from your on-line persona. I've enjoyed many of your posts over the years, but sometimes you do seem a little angry and bitter at something.

I hope you decide to start listening to our show in the future, but I'll understand it you don't. Our show is geared to folks like you.

Again, I'm just trying to inform folks with my posts. I'd like to post on other topics, but as we've both stated, there's just not much going on right now. If we have a week where we don't have a significant guest booked, I'm not going to be on here posting "Make sure you check out our show tonight". We just want to let folks know when we have interesting guests lined up.

 

[apco25]

Altho' the point could be raised that WIBG was notorious for a piss poor night signal (which exists even to this day). And remember, back then radios didn't have digital readouts. So, teens looking for music after 990AM went to night pattern and trying to find WFIL might have found WABC by accident. It is recalled in one of the Joel Whitburn books that Shelly Fabares lived in Lansdale, but listened to WABC!!!!!!!!!! MusicRadio 77 was a bigger deal, both in NYC and the surrounding areas with that blowtorch of a signal, than many give them credit for.

Excuse me, I believe your thinking of Little Peggy March who was the Pride Of Lansdale.

 

[apco25]

I was.Then - as now - there were a few radio geeks into DXing. The vast majority ot the Top 40 audience listened to THE local station, the station EVERYBODY listened to. Most of the powerhouse stations you mentioned were not Top 40 in the Wibbage era (pre-WFIL). WLS and WABC were not Top 40 until 1960. Cousin Brucie did make some in-roads in parts of the Philadelphia market in the early 60's. WLS did have out of market listeners in Northern Michigan, Northern Wisconsin and other rural areas where local Top 40 was not available (or not very good) but it was not a factor here. Dick Biondi on WWKB, Buffalo did have a cult following in this area before he left for Chicago. WCFL did not become Top 40 until 1966; CKLW in 1967 - both post-WFIL. The others you mention were adult full-service stations. While some, like Group W's WOWO and KYW in Cleveland (it wasn't WWWA until NBC took back the station in 1965) did play some "chicken rock" cuts - they were not Top 40 in either playlist or presentation. It does say something about Hy Lit's following that out of market listening was insignifcant in that period (1956-1966), in contrast to many smaller markets. It does not change the fact that he was the only Top 40 game in town before WFIL. And, let's face, the Wibbage era ended when WFIL flipped to the Drake-Chennault format.

With the exception of Julius...these are good posts. Fred since you seem to be older then me , I can only go back to remembering Philly radio what it was roughly back in late 67' 68' vaguely.
What I like to know beside WIBG, what were the other signals that played TOP 40 hit music that a teenager or young adult, or anyone that was hip between the years 58-66 could relate to. What were the stations locally day or night that someone in that era would tune to. Within the whole Delaware Valley.

 

[Rockin Rob]

Altho' the point could be raised that WIBG was notorious for a piss poor night signal (which exists even to this day). And remember, back then radios didn't have digital readouts. So, teens looking for music after 990AM went to night pattern and trying to find WFIL might have found WABC by accident. It is recalled in one of the Joel Whitburn books that Shelly Fabares lived in Lansdale, but listened to WABC!!!!!!!!!! MusicRadio 77 was a bigger deal, both in NYC and the surrounding areas with that blowtorch of a signal, than many give them credit for.

Excuse me, I believe your thinking of Little Peggy March who was the Pride Of Lansdale.

You're right, I stand corrected. I was going from the top of my head and some former friend had my remaining copy of Joel Whitburn.

 

[PaulBWalkerJr]

People seem so bitter in Philadelphia.

On an off topic... I used to live in Moorestown, Nj.. and I remember the only thing I listened to was KYW 1060.