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I actually met a live human being who owns an HD radio tonight.

K

KB1OKL

I don't usually strike up conversations with guys at gas stations but my car is a conversation starter so a couple of guys start asking me abut my car. To make a long story short after about a 10 minute conversation with one of them which included GM going under, the loss of Pontiac and Oldsmobile, and then Sirius-XM and finally he mentioned HD radio! I have actually met a live human being besides myself who owns one. He said he likes the sound of his (a Sony clock radio) but said he can't wake up to an IBOC station because sometimes it locks and sometimes it doesn't and when that happens he says he doesn't wake up, haha! ;D I myself would think that the jarring telephone quality analog sound of the IBOC station in between silence and dropouts would be enough to wake up the dead but no he tunes his to analog stations. He specifically mentioned the long lock in times of them also. He also thought that anyone who owns these should really have a roof antenna if they want good reception. He bought it at a close out at best buy.
Where else?
 
I own two. One is an Insignia that picked up at a Radio Shack closeout. The other a Dual that I put in the car (for otehr reasons than HD). The Insignia is working with a straight wire antenna vertically indoors. The car radio is working with an outside (not a windshield) antenna. The radio at home I use in the computer room. Locks even with all the hash generated by the computer (I don't like streaming when I am heavily using the computer). The result is a very quiet (no noise) signal without using my bandwidth.

As long as the engineer balances the audio level and the time delay (so do it well and some do it awful) I find it virtually impossible on HD-1 to hear the switch between analog and digital. Here in the midwest (where I am right now) the digital HD-2 will lock at least out to 30 miles form the transmiiter (sometimes further). I have driven across 2/3 of the country since putting in the radio, and pick my stations by programming and not HD.

It does suprise me sometimes to look at the dial and find I am listeniing to an HD-1 signal. The HD-1 is not a great improvement (in my car anyway). It is the HD-2 and HD-3 that seems to provide the best listening. Because at this point there is nothing but program, plus there is some experimenting going on as far as formats go.

I don't have a lot of interest in AM IBOC since all I go to AM for is the news. But I have noticed that when the car radio is locked onto an AM IBOC signal, you don't hear all the external interfrence that AM is subject to (power lines particularly). Not FM quality for sure but it is a very quiet (noise free) signal.
 
K6JHU said:
I own two. One is an Insignia that picked up at a Radio Shack closeout. The other a Dual that I put in the car (for otehr reasons than HD). The Insignia is working with a straight wire antenna vertically indoors. The car radio is working with an outside (not a windshield) antenna. The radio at home I use in the computer room. Locks even with all the hash generated by the computer (I don't like streaming when I am heavily using the computer). The result is a very quiet (no noise) signal without using my bandwidth.

As long as the engineer balances the audio level and the time delay (so do it well and some do it awful) I find it virtually impossible on HD-1 to hear the switch between analog and digital. Here in the midwest (where I am right now) the digital HD-2 will lock at least out to 30 miles form the transmiiter (sometimes further). I have driven across 2/3 of the country since putting in the radio, and pick my stations by programming and not HD.

It does suprise me sometimes to look at the dial and find I am listeniing to an HD-1 signal. The HD-1 is not a great improvement (in my car anyway). It is the HD-2 and HD-3 that seems to provide the best listening. Because at this point there is nothing but program, plus there is some experimenting going on as far as formats go.

I don't have a lot of interest in AM IBOC since all I go to AM for is the news. But I have noticed that when the car radio is locked onto an AM IBOC signal, you don't hear all the external interfrence that AM is subject to (power lines particularly). Not FM quality for sure but it is a very quiet (noise free) signal.
Click to expand...


How dare you post your actual positive true life experiences on this site. Why they go counter to the anti IBOC group who have heard horror stories such as the death of thousands when a truck carrying HD radios ran wild on a freeway. All because the digital content contained in the radios caused interference with the trucks computer system.
 
Might be a good idea to prohibit The L, Subway and Amtrak engineers from listening to HD Radios while they are operating their trains!
 
Not a problem, stormy. To my knowledge almost all subway trains run underground, and I know of no elevated or Amtrak rights of way which circle AM transmitter sites within 5 mile radii, so no HD signals would be likely be detected.
 
The "T" in Boston does run above ground at certain points, not sure how close it gets to WBZ (within the 5 mile radius) but there is a slight chance an engineer may be listening to it and exasperatedly throw it out the window during a dropout at a crucial moment causing a crash.
 
K6JHU said:
I own two. One is an Insignia that picked up at a Radio Shack closeout. The other a Dual that I put in the car (for otehr reasons than HD). The Insignia is working with a straight wire antenna vertically indoors. The car radio is working with an outside (not a windshield) antenna. The radio at home I use in the computer room. Locks even with all the hash generated by the computer (I don't like streaming when I am heavily using the computer). The result is a very quiet (no noise) signal without using my bandwidth.

As long as the engineer balances the audio level and the time delay (so do it well and some do it awful) I find it virtually impossible on HD-1 to hear the switch between analog and digital. Here in the midwest (where I am right now) the digital HD-2 will lock at least out to 30 miles form the transmiiter (sometimes further). I have driven across 2/3 of the country since putting in the radio, and pick my stations by programming and not HD.

It does suprise me sometimes to look at the dial and find I am listeniing to an HD-1 signal. The HD-1 is not a great improvement (in my car anyway). It is the HD-2 and HD-3 that seems to provide the best listening. Because at this point there is nothing but program, plus there is some experimenting going on as far as formats go.

I don't have a lot of interest in AM IBOC since all I go to AM for is the news. But I have noticed that when the car radio is locked onto an AM IBOC signal, you don't hear all the external interfrence that AM is subject to (power lines particularly). Not FM quality for sure but it is a very quiet (noise free) signal.
Click to expand...

I think my point was that I ACTUALLY MET some one in person who owns one besides myself, kind of like two Yugo owners meeting by chance.
 
Savage said:
Not a problem, stormy. To my knowledge almost all subway trains run underground, and I know of no elevated or Amtrak rights of way which circle AM transmitter sites within 5 mile radii, so no HD signals would be likely be detected.
KB1OKL said:
The "T" in Boston does run above ground at certain points, not sure how close it gets to WBZ (within the 5 mile radius) but there is a slight chance an engineer may be listening to it and exasperatedly throw it out the window during a dropout at a crucial moment causing a crash.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Only trying to avoid a radio while in the plane example knowing the event of the past week...
 
KB1OKL said:
I think my point was that I ACTUALLY MET some one in person who owns one besides myself, kind of like two Yugo owners meeting by chance.
Click to expand...

Did both of you agree that you both liked IBOC and that it was the ~wave~ of the future? :)
 
KB1OKL said:
I think my point was that I ACTUALLY MET some one in person who owns one besides myself, kind of like two Yugo owners meeting by chance.
Click to expand...

I own two - I bought both because they were highly rated for analog performance. If the Sony had come out first, I doubt I would have bought the Sangean - except the Sangean can actually do C-Quam on AM.

As for HD performance, the difference on FM is striking, but only because it is fed into a first rate audio system. There is no way you would hear the difference through 3 inch table radio speakers. And you sure wouldn't hear the noise floor drop in a car as it switches to HD. The advantage goes almost completely away the station has an HD-2 channel. I find long term listening to a stations HD-1 when It has an HD-2 causes the same listener fatigue as you would get with a wideband stream - something is degraded below the threshold of sensation, but it is irritating long term. An HD-1 only station is OK for long term listening, but one with both gets old in about 30 minutes. At that point, I usually go back to an analog only tuner.

Incidentally, I don't listen to iPods for a long time for the same reason. Compression - it causes listener fatigue.

AM is horrendous long term listening to music. About the only thing it is good for is talk or sports, but I have to wonder how the announcers would sound in person, because I am probably not hearing an accurate representation of their voices. I sure miss the wonderful response of C-Quam, it was actually pleasant to listen to, long term. I actually preferred C-Quam stereo to FM stereo, the sound was richer somehow. Add that to the 300 mile range it had in the daytime, an over 1000 mile range C-Quam had at night, with graceful degradation, and I wonder how these AM IBOC ever decided to use this awful iBiquity system. The same stations that had 300 mile stereo range are now lucky if IBOC decodes at a tenth that distance. One of them didn't decode at 10 miles, which is 1/30th of its previous stereo distance (KAAM 770 - no reliable lock 9.6 miles from their towers, vs. reliable C-Quam decode 290 miles away outside of Crosbyton, TX, on a Sony AM stereo SRF-A1 WALKMAN). No way AM HD covers major metropolitan areas, and also makes AM sound muffled like telephone audio for 99.98% of the listeners. If I owned an AM station, I'd throw that HD encoder in the trash and go back to C-Quam without a single regret or second thought.
 
And, if you crank up the power on the HD signal, you obliterate even more of the band with static. It's such an inefficient system. What I mean by that comment is you can have the digital sidebands interfering with adjacent frequencies for a good percentage of the analog signal's range.

For example, WBBM's sidebands obliterate 770 and 790 (day and night) as far away as Milwaukee and Davenport, IA. Yet, that same digital signal can only be decoded for 30 miles with an excellent HD Radio/antenna setup. So, a radius of annoying buzz and hiss for a good 160-180 miles, yet (at best) 30 miles of usable range. Very, very wasteful thing to do with the MW band.
 
rbruce, I concur with your assessment that C-QUAM AM stereo actually sounded superior to FM stereo.

I did afternoon drive on WWKB Buffalo, 50kw DA-1 ON 1520 kHz in its final days as a music station, my last (paid!) gig before I put WYSL on the air. KB was a C-QUAM pioneer and had an unusually fine audio system. Most of the credit goes to then-CE Tom Atkins who was not only one of the best radio engineers I've ever met but was also a remarkably talented and funny on-air performer.

I actually used to defer taking my headphones off after doing a set...the audio was that good. It was astonishing listening to the output from the audio section of the TFT mod monitor. The C-QUAM had a unique presence and richness lacking in most FM products. When I would make my claim to industry and non-industry people, I was greeted with skepticism, but when the more discerning ones actually tuned in on a C-QUAM capable receiver of any decent quality they would agree. There used to be an AM stereo page with stereo airchecks available on the web but I can't seem to locate it any more.
 
K6JHU said:
As long as the engineer balances the audio level and the time delay (so do it well and some do it awful) I find it virtually impossible on HD-1 to hear the switch between analog and digital.
Click to expand...

So it sounds the same in either mode? There's a screaming endorsement if I ever heard one. I bet that station is glad they spent all that dough for undiscernable difference in audio quality.
 
A few years ago when WGN was still running CQUAM and also had some music programming overnight and on Sunday mornings, I made some cassette recordings. I was shocked by how great they sounded! I have a Radio Shack AM stereo tuner, which I have modified by replacing the IF filters with wider ones. I also tweaked the high pass filter in the audio section to improve the bass response. Although cassette tapes (even recorded on a component deck) are not the epitome of high fidelity, those recordings were amazing!

Unfortunately for a number of years during the heydey of AM stereo, I did not have a receiver. I had lent my Radio Shack tuner to a colleague at work, who somehow kept forgetting to return it. After the last of the local AM stereo stations went off the air (probably WGN), he remembered to bring it back.

Now here's a practical question for the two or three HD radio proponents on this board who keep on needling those of us who care about audio quality and spectrum pollution: if you lent out your HD AM radio to one of your friends, would you have a hard time getting them to return it??
::)
 
I had an AM stereo radio in my 88 Plymouth and it did sound great, much better than AM IBOC will ever sound and even better than that was the fact that I could drive all the way to Vermont at night from MA and listen to the same station in stereo without switching the station. I have a great sounding C-Quam radio now, the Meduci, too bad there are no C-Quam stations around here, it sound good even in mono.
 
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