I Cannot Stand This Idea!

[whit979]

Back on-topic with the original post...

Clear Channel stations often do sweepers over song intros. The way WKSC's imaging is described sounds identical to WQEN/Birmingham, AL (103-7 the Q). Same voice guy (Dave Kampel), same dry/lightly produced sweepers over song intro. Same "cookie cutter" radio for Clear Channel.

The PD of WQEN told me once that the idea of the ramped sweepers is to create a sense of faster flow during a music set. For the CHR audience that is here one minute and gone the next, that isn't really a bad idea. It may just be badly-produced.

 

[jcolletta275]

Chris, would it be fair to say that a majority of people your age would have the same complaints about the station, or would at least agree to the changes you've proposed? My guess is they would.

A lot of people I know have been telling me a lot about how "Kiss sucks". I know for a fact, that the younger end of Kiss's audience would prefer a more balanced CHR that plays all the hits, not just what Kiss thinks is a hit. They just started playing "This Ain't A Scene" and "It's Not Over", AND they act like it's new music!

Oh, btw, Kiss beat B96 this ratings period. B96 is tenth in the market, Kiss is ninth. What a surprise.

Thanks, Chris, that's just what I thought.

Haha. Can I talk to someone here that actually WORKS for a radio station, and not someone that is a passive listener?

I do work for a radio station. Not only that, I've worked in small, medium and major markets, and have 14 years of experience in the industry. So before you start mouthing off about wanting to talk to people who have experience, you might want to find out just what kind of company you're in on these boards. You'll find that some pretty experienced people post here... including some who work at some of the top stations in the country.

WHIT, ramped sweepers are all well and good, but if any station is relying on them to hold on to an audience, their focus is misplaced. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and quite frankly I would run them myself (well-thought-out and placed properly, of course). But the content, not the filler, is what's going to keep the listeners engaged.

 

[jamessteele]

I haven't heard kiss fm in chicagos rollover sweepers, so I can't speak for them. The use of rollover sweeps is great. Every girl I know who is in the CHR demo will click over to the next station as soon as they hear any sort of sweeper, they don't know what it is...they just think "commercial where is my f'ing timbaland jt and nelly furtado."

The idea of the rollover sweep is for them to hear the beat of their favorite song while we also identify who they are listening to at the same time. I've seen it with my own eyes how the rollovers keep the girls listening because music is still playing, and the normal 8 second fully produced sweep will almost all the time make them jump to the competition. Everything shouldn't be a rollover, you should still have compelling production to sell your station.

PD's be advised, rollovers sweeps do not help your listeners stay if you are playing clay aiken...because thats just awful.

 

[radio_rookie]

sounds to me like someone just messed up and put a tone or a fade in the wrong place

 

[jcolletta275]

Just to clarify, I never said the ramped sweepers weren't effective in holding an audience, I'm just saying that you shouldn't rely on them to do so. There's so much more to programming than imaging.

 

[Primitive]

Not one single person in your listening audience knows what a sweeper is! I know SHOCKING! Yeah, and believe it or not, they will TOTALLY zone out your DJ UNLESS THEY ARE TALKING OVER THEIR FAVORITE SONG! I KNOW! I am DUMBFOUNDED!

People who listen to the radio... yet, have no IDEA what is going on in between the SONGS!?!? NO! IT'S THE END OF RADIO!

Here are the things that listeners HAVE NO IDEA, nor do they care, about:
Sweepers
Hitting posts
Segues
Voice guys
Processing
Positioning statements

RADIO PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS NON-SENSE! Listeners want their favorite song often. Music, not ANY of the above will help you win.

Oh, PS... all those "balanced" CHR's... are getting their ass kicked by Urbans and rhythms in key demos. Play less rock, play catchy, melodic hip-hop and you will win.

RATINGS=REVENUE. If your audience doesn't want rock music, YOU DON'T GET RATINGS.. YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY...And they flip your favorite "balanced" CHR. Boo hoo.

Well, I work in radio and you're wrong about a couple of things.

Listeners care about announcers. - In Toronto a popular morning host was let go. She got over 2000 e-mails from her former listeners who switched in droves to a competing station when she moved over there. Guess what? She was re-hired.

Listeners care about voice people. - I worked at a station which used Randy Thomas, and we got negative comments about her American accent.

 

[janedoahlovesbrentlee]

They are doing it because of CC's big push of "less is more" which now includes straight segues. But the PD actually knows what he is doing because, regardless of what CC's big SA think tank says, the listeners need to know what station they are listening too. So, to do as CC Corp wishes, they get the straight segue. Then the PD gets what he wishes, and that's station identification.

 

[JLOontheRadio]

Sometimes if you listen to John Garabedian's Open House Party there will be a long intro to a dance song and there will be a dry liner or station ID. I agree that dry liners would be ok...you just dont need all out sweepers along with the music..haha..sounds a little crappy. Anyways, just my thoughts.

 

[raydiodude]

Not one single person in your listening audience knows what a sweeper is! I know SHOCKING! Yeah, and believe it or not, they will TOTALLY zone out your DJ UNLESS THEY ARE TALKING OVER THEIR FAVORITE SONG! I KNOW! I am DUMBFOUNDED!

People who listen to the radio... yet, have no IDEA what is going on in between the SONGS!?!? NO! IT'S THE END OF RADIO!

Here are the things that listeners HAVE NO IDEA, nor do they care, about:
Sweepers
Hitting posts
Segues
Voice guys
Processing
Positioning statements

RADIO PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS NON-SENSE! Listeners want their favorite song often. Music, not ANY of the above will help you win.

Oh, PS... all those "balanced" CHR's... are getting their ass kicked by Urbans and rhythms in key demos. Play less rock, play catchy, melodic hip-hop and you will win.

RATINGS=REVENUE. If your audience doesn't want rock music, YOU DON'T GET RATINGS.. YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY...And they flip your favorite "balanced" CHR. Boo hoo.

While I agree with you that's listeners do not care about the things you mentioned, let's look at this in reverse:

- they WOULD care if jocks STEPPED on the post, therefore walking all over their fav songs.
- they WOULD RATHER here entertaining compelling sweepers than just boring positioning statements that mean nothing.
(ex: my station is currently running a sweeper that says "It's been 15 minutes since Lindsey Lohan's last DUI - 104 Five WSNX". That's funny, makes people laugh, is timely and some will remember that).
- they WOULD care if two segued songs with no sweeper was a total trainwreck.
- while no mentions "voice guys", you are clueless if you think your station image voice doesn't matter.
- if you're station had NO processing, you don't think an 18-34 audience with thousand dollar + sound systems don't notice?
- positioning statements are ONLY important if you are actually what you say you are, and most CHR's are not. We completely dropped our positioner a year ago because my market knows what we do and what we are.

Hair, I don't know if you work in radio or not but if you do, I hope to program against you one day because it will ensure my success.

 

[Primitive]

I'm afraid you're the one out of sync with reality, my friend. Do some reading here (and even further writings from more authorities in the industry who are saying the exact same thing can be found easily by doing some searching on Google, Technorati, etc.). You'll find that the age group that WKSC targets is not listening, and it's all because of the programming. As I said, this may be a small thing, but this small thing is just a part of the bigger picture.

I'll roam the boards as I wish, thank you.

I love it when a guy who has 23 posts tells a guy who has 1700 to leave a website.

 

[mistermicrophone]

- they WOULD care if two segued songs with no sweeper was a total trainwreck.

If they are two songs they love, the listener won't realize it's a "trainwreck." It may be just like listening to their iPod!!

 

[titoisradio]

Not one single person in your listening audience knows what a sweeper is! I know SHOCKING! Yeah, and believe it or not, they will TOTALLY zone out your DJ UNLESS THEY ARE TALKING OVER THEIR FAVORITE SONG! I KNOW! I am DUMBFOUNDED!

People who listen to the radio... yet, have no IDEA what is going on in between the SONGS!?!? NO! IT'S THE END OF RADIO!

Here are the things that listeners HAVE NO IDEA, nor do they care, about:
Sweepers
Hitting posts
Segues
Voice guys
Processing
Positioning statements

RADIO PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS NON-SENSE! Listeners want their favorite song often. Music, not ANY of the above will help you win.

Oh, PS... all those "balanced" CHR's... are getting their ass kicked by Urbans and rhythms in key demos. Play less rock, play catchy, melodic hip-hop and you will win.

RATINGS=REVENUE. If your audience doesn't want rock music, YOU DON'T GET RATINGS.. YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY...And they flip your favorite "balanced" CHR. Boo hoo.

1. Listeners do know what liners/sweepers are, they may not call them that but they do notice them and its all about branding. For example, when you goto McDonald's the golden arches are on everything from the wrappers to the napkins. Do the customers care about the logo, no. But McDonald's sticks their logo on everything in order to create brand loyalty. Thus when one is hungry for a hamburger they will think McDonald's. Thus when a radio station plays a sweeper it is done for the same reason, when a listener wants to hear a hit music station they will tune in to Kiss.

2. Hitting posts. Some listeners know about it others don't. However, as a professional you should strive to hit the post and never walk over the post. Much the same way people going to a baseball game may not care about anything but a home run, that doesn't mean that your team will win if that's all you can do. If a baseball team stopped giving signs for example which fans don't care about using your philosophy, the team would start playing sloppy, begin losing, and the fans would stop coming to the games. By hitting the posts the station sounds like a winner and more professional. However, a jock should not talk to just hit the post with endless ramblings.

3. Segues. Well if you don't have segues you will have dead air and listeners DO CARE about dead air...so thus they do care about segues. Also like the guy mentioned about trainwreck segues, you don't want your station to have that. As far as the Ipod shuffle theory, trainwreck segues don't truly happen due to the dead air space that is between tracks. And you wouldn't want to crossfade for example from Hotel California into Snoop Dogg as that would be a true trainwreck.

4. Voice guys go back to branding. You should have one or two voice guys/gals that image your station to fit the style your station is looking for. Again, using baseball analogy, does the third base coach matter to most fans? Nope, however he makes win/loss decisions each game. A voice guy that doesn't match your intended image could be as disasterous as a third base coach who doesn't see where the ball was hit.

5. Processing. Listeners do care about processing. I've worked at stations where the processing went out and believe me that was what the 90% of the calls were about..."what's wrong with the station, etc.." They may not care about all the technical aspects but if the station sounds like crap on their stereos they will not listen.

6. Positioning statements go back to branding. Same philosophy as 1.

Music is important to a music station winning in the ratings, however without the things you mentioned above a station will not win. A listener wants to know who plays hit music, who plays music from the 80s, love songs, rock, etc. The worse thing you can do as a programmer is have your station imaged as one thing though play music that doesn't match that image. For example if I image my station as a love song station but play hip hop music I will lose in the ratings, the same as a rap station would that played rock.

Also ratings don't always = revenue. In many markets the top rated station is not the top billing station. Again its all how you manage your sales staff, image your station, and sell your station.

 

[cARLOS Blake]

Not one single person in your listening audience knows what a sweeper is! I know SHOCKING! Yeah, and believe it or not, they will TOTALLY zone out your DJ UNLESS THEY ARE TALKING OVER THEIR FAVORITE SONG! I KNOW! I am DUMBFOUNDED!

People who listen to the radio... yet, have no IDEA what is going on in between the SONGS!?!? NO! IT'S THE END OF RADIO!

Here are the things that listeners HAVE NO IDEA, nor do they care, about:
Sweepers
Hitting posts
Segues
hair...completely wrong on 1st part...right on 2nd part. If "Lean Like a Cholo" has something meaningful to it's demo in it's :08 drop & it has better processing, hell yeah they're gonna listen to that because they think it relates to them. It's not about the station talking about how good they are anymore...it's about grabbing listener's emotions. Hot sounding chick listener audio saying what they're doing is a great example for CHR. This is coming from an imaging guy. To stick on the subject, it would depend on the song intro on what type of stager/phaser to have behind "voice guy's" schpeel. (Gym Class Heroes...No...Sweet Escape...Yes(until the Woo hoos start)...makes Me Wonder...No...The Way I are...Yes. If there's a clean spot for it & the sweeper doesn't sound overly produced...do it...but have someone live in the studio to pot down the song under it. The way they have it now though sounds like a train wreck.
Voice guys
Processing
Positioning statements

RADIO PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS NON-SENSE! Listeners want their favorite song often. Music, not ANY of the above will help you win.

Oh, PS... all those "balanced" CHR's... are getting their ass kicked by Urbans and rhythms in key demos. Play less rock, play catchy, melodic hip-hop and you will win.

RATINGS=REVENUE. If your audience doesn't want rock music, YOU DON'T GET RATINGS.. YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY...And they flip your favorite "balanced" CHR. Boo hoo.

 

[Adam Rivers]

Oh, PS... all those "balanced" CHR's... are getting their ass kicked by Urbans and rhythms in key demos. Play less rock, play catchy, melodic hip-hop and you will win.

RATINGS=REVENUE. If your audience doesn't want rock music, YOU DON'T GET RATINGS.. YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY...And they flip your favorite "balanced" CHR. Boo hoo.

Let's get serious for a second. Balanced CHRs do well in a number of markets. WXKS, WBLI, WHTZ, just to name a few....rhythmic product is on the way down whether anyone wants to believe it or not.

 

[cARLOS Blake]

hair...completely wrong on 1st part...right on 2nd part. If "Lean Like a Cholo" has something meaningful to it's demo in it's :08 drop & it has better processing, hell yeah they're gonna listen to that because they think it relates to them. It's not about the station talking about how good they are anymore...it's about grabbing listener's emotions. Hot sounding chick listener audio saying what they're doing is a great example for CHR. This is coming from an imaging guy. To stick on the subject, it would depend on the song intro on what type of stager/phaser to have behind "voice guy's" schpeel. (Gym Class Heroes...No...Sweet Escape...Yes(until the Woo hoos start)...makes Me Wonder...No...The Way I are...Yes. If there's a clean spot for it & the sweeper doesn't sound overly produced...do it...but have someone live in the studio to pot down the song under it. The way they have it now though sounds like a train wreck.
Something I don't agree with: out PD told us it's not about the music, but what is said between the songs.
I would crystalize the processor so much you could almost hear twinkling in the background, op the pitch/tempo "just a smidgen", .05 & have lots of listener testimonial drops w/ a little bit of drone underneath. Something else I don't agree on with our PD: station name & dial position between EVERY song. Kiss stations just say "Kiss FM" some breaks while others say "1027-Kiss FM". I also hate the name "branding"- it makes me think CC has taken a branding iron to my as*.

 

[cARLOS Blake]

When 107.9 fm was still WPHR, Power 108 in Cleveland they did that all the time. You'd hear 3 seconds of a long song intro & they'd blast a sweep overtop of it to almost "make" you listen to the imaging if you wanted to hear the song. At the time it seemed clever for a power hit format. They would even take songs that had a dead spot(like Glen Frey's "True Love") & overlay the beat so there was no silence in the tune. That's a whole other issue, messing with the actual songs.

 

[MassMusicMan]

The use of rollover sweeps is great. Every girl I know who is in the CHR demo will click over to the next station as soon as they hear any sort of sweeper, they don't know what it is...they just think "commercial where is my f'ing timbaland jt and nelly furtado."

This is true. I worked for a station that did a "12-in-a-row or $1,000" promotion. The hotlines lit up after the 8th song of the set because several listeners thought that the 12-second morning show tease was a commercial!

 

[MassMusicMan]

sounds to me like someone just messed up and put a tone or a fade in the wrong place

Why can't the jock play the elements manually?

 

[cARLOS Blake]

Hell, the station I'm at they still keep calling even after you play your winner on the air!

 

[JBanks]

I think that the segue sounds good if the jock takes the time to do it right. Most jocks just let their shows run in auto and talk between songs and the computer does the rest. If the song starts and then the sweep fires with lots of production then it will always sound bad. A punch, the positioner and frequency is all it needs. Simple is better in this instance.

A good jock will segue it up and make it sound good. If it does not sound good then change it.

I realize that some stations dont have the freedom to change the sweepers and imaging. But if it sounds bad at that point the jock can not be responsible.

If a sweep does not sound good on my show I change it to one that does sound good. It is part of my job to sound at tight as possible. Some songs it just does not work. Some songs it does.