I dont get it with ogl

[Diamond Jim]

First, thanks for the kind words - the CAU-FM days were fun, indeed. A couple of quick comments about WOGL, ratings and research. First, the station has been just about hanging around the top 10 in their demo for several years now - back awhile, the numbers were nearly double what they are now on a regular basis - back when they actually played a much better variety of music - bear in mind, they're about the only ball game in town, so listeners don't have much choice, like it or not. Research is a self-fulfilling prophecy most of the time. Do those that think it's the answer really believe that the public has such narrow taste after listening to the music for over 40 years? They only liked 300 songs in all that time? I think not. But it's the reason that radio sounds precisely the same coast to coast. By the way, those that say 'play the hits' are confusing time frames - these were hits - they are not hits now - and don't need to be repeated every 7 minutes.

Second - you do have a choice now. RadioPhillyStyle.com is a station that I've launched with several colleagues - it concentrates primarily on the pre-Beatle era and features twice an hour those songs that had either no success nationally, or limited success, but were big items here - those things that are still requested at dances all over the Delaware Valley - we call them Philly Spotlight Songs. The playlist is currently over 2,300 songs, and I'm adding regularly. You'll hear all the songs that have disappeared from terrestrial radio - including the great instrumentals that nobody plays anymore and once an hour a RadioPhillyStyle Vault selection for those rare goodies.

The mix is eclectic and fun - we've subtitled the station "The Golden Age of American Rock 'n Roll". Charlie Bennett does 5-9AM, Kim Martin 9-12Noon. Christy Springfield handles Noon to 3 and I jump in 3 to 7PM. Give it a try and let us know what you think. Again, you can access via www.RadioPhillyStyle.com. You'll hear some different stuff - I even just played a cut from Charlie Gracie's 2001 album, "I'm All Right" - Charlie's rockin' as well as ever.

Enjoy.

Jim Nettleton

 

[dustyvinyl]

Jim-
Congrats on the launch of your internet "gem". It is a great radio "station" that indeed plays an eclectic mix that you just can't turn off. It has the best mix of oldies on the internet for my two cents, and I will recommend it to everyone.

I wish you and your DJ's much success!

 

[crmc]

Some thoughts on Diamond Jim's internet station: I think it sounds great.Stations like that are designed for the narrowcast tastes of internet radio and with the classy sound of this station, it's sure to do well.Sadly, the model doesen't work for broadcasting today. Can any of our fellow students of the industry site a station on the air today that has a 2300 song playlist with a ratings story?Let us all know about it. Oldies stations need to ask their listeners what they want and deliver upon it and they can stay viable. That's why library based stations like WOGL or WMGK run a bit tight for the insider ears of a radiophile but have the best IN DEMO numbers they ever had. The ad community brought this upon our business. It's the silly quest for 25-54. Over 80 % of Philly's ad dollars are targeted there, so the stations that survive and thrive adapt to that target. Survival in today's competitive commercial broadcasting world requires an understanding that station management must FOLLOW THE MONEY. Or, the station will be in a different format and someone else will be in their chair. It's a form of natural selection, survival of the fittest, if you will.
The nice thing is that the internet gives us a place to hear these entities that focus on the pre 1965 era songs and some that go back even farther.But the free over the air licensed stations will continue to try for the money demo, with their own variations on interpretation of what their listeners want.In the past, those that served their listeners first, not catered to the ecclectic whims of a select group of insiders did the best. It's my opinion that this tried and true concept will continue to deliver results today.

 

[gwjr67]

One of the most precise & concise snapshots of today's radio I've heard in a long long time. However, there is one point I'd like to contend. I do think there is a way to win with free radio, or at least make your mark, in 25-54 without conforming to the cookie cutter (and even that sounds like a cookie cutter phrase today) formatics of today's conglomerates. The answer lies with a guy like myself, who has been away from the business for about 10 years. I have an ear to hear the difference between 1986 and 2006, the prior experience and wisdom to reach the desired results, and most importantly, the willingness to blaze a trail that would, in time, be followed by programmers across the country. Why it will never happen? I'm essentially the "anti-christ" for a station owned by a media conglomerate. A loose cannon with nothing to lose if I insist on doing things my way. I wouldn't last 6 months. I wouldn't be held hostage by a company that reminds you how radio positions are drying up more and more everyday. I'd be a salmon swimming upstream against a current that is hundreds if not thousands of stations strong, surrounded by "yes-men" who have continued up the corporate ladder while being to challenge conventional wisdom. There is a formula that would work, and the music would need to routinely change and be on the pulse of the community to get results. That's another reason it won't occur anytime soon. One day though, it will happen. It probably won't be me, but one day we'll be reading about the guy or gal that changed the face of radio/programming and saved it from itself. For that to happen the industry will need to be in dire straits. Much worse than it is today. If I only had a 3-4 year contract and it was impossible to fire me. Maybe I should put a clause in there that if I don't reach the targeted results in 4 years, they can fire me & I'll pay them all of salary back. Maybe that would be a safe enough situation for them. Nah, the control-freaks could never give up that much power. I should know. I am one.

 

[radioskeptic]

Thanks to Jim Nettleton for making my next point for me in post # 20 on this thread.

He said that WOGL “has been just about hanging around the top 10 in their demo for several years now - back awhile, the numbers were nearly double what they are now on a regular basis - back when they actually played a much better variety of music,” and went on to caution us to “bear in mind [that] they're about the only ball game in town, so listeners don't have much choice, like it or not.” (You might want to go back and read the whole post.)

RunWithScissors and I had both cited the “Solid Gold Radio” WCAU-FM of the early and mid-Seventies as an example of what an Oldies station should be. Maybe some of you are asking why it didn’t last. Let me offer a hypothesis.

What happened was WPEN -- AM and FM!

Greater Media acquired the WPEN stations in early 1975 and temporarily took them dark – ostensibly only to make some engineering upgrades, but in reality also to break the union contracts. On March 1, under a special six-month dispensation fro the FCC, they started simulcasting an Oldies format on WPEN and what is now WMGK. (WMGK would debut as a female-targeted soft-rock, proto-AC station on September 1)

In 1975, FM penetration in cars was still very low. Though FM had been standard on some luxury cars for a few years, it was just beginning to penetrate the lower end of the new car market. (It wasn't until Spring 1978 that Arbitron reported that total national FM listening exceeded AM for the first time, and then only by a small margin; only when a majority of cars had FM, in the mid-Eighties, did FM move into a commanding lead.)

For those first six months, ’PEN played only pre-British Invasion records with a Top 40 formatics and semi-comedic newscasts. Because of the simulcast advantage, WPEN was able to compete with 'CAU-FM for the FM audience and attracted a car audience confined to AM as well, and its total (AM and FM) audience soon dwarfed 98.1’s.

The weakness of WPEN was Greater Media’s preference for pallid covers of seminal rock’n’roll classics: “Sincerely” by the McGuire Sisters instead of the Moonglows and (even worse) “Sh-Boom” by the Crew Cuts instead of the Chords.

And it wasn’t just the black artists who got this treatment. The 1975 WPEN played “Butterfly” by Andy Williams every time -- in Charlie Gracie’s home town!

Of course, ’CAU-FM had a shortcoming of it own. The station had been adding far too many currents – so many that it had started to sound more like a WFIL “Million Dollar Weekend” circa 1969 than a real Oldies station. (I think this may have been because of pressure from corporate headquarters; remember, at that time CBS owned one of the major record companies, and also did custom record pressing in its plants for other labels, including Warner Brothers, Elektra, Atlantic, A&M, Mercury, Vanguard, 20th Century, etc., and thus had an interest in the sale of current material -- both their own Columbia, Epic et al. releases and those of many of their competitors.)

CBS threw in the towel and flipped the station to disco as “Fascinatin’ Rhythm 98” in 1976. But they should have toughed it out, because ’PEN wouldn’t last.

On September 1 (when WPEN-FM became WMGK), ’PEN added hits from the years 1964-66, and added newer and newer material every three months thereafter, while de-emphasizing the real Oldies that had made their initial impression in the market. Listening plummeted, and in 1979 they flipped to Nostalgia (now called Adult Standards).

Philly was without an Oldies station until 1989 when WCAU-FM, after “Hot Hits” CHR had run its course, flipped to Oldies under its current call.

WOGL was a reasonably good Oldies station until 2001, when it first tried to “modernize” its sound under orders form corporate headquarters (and temporarily reversed course, at least partially, six months later). But this post is already getting a little long, so I’ll leave that discussion for later. (And never mind WPEN's abortive return to Oldies from Septembe 2004 to October 2005. The play ist was every bit as restricted, and thus as boring, as WOGL'S. Only the era was different!)

 

[ixnay]

RunWithScissors and I had both cited the “Solid Gold Radio” WCAU-FM of the early and mid-Seventies as an example of what an Oldies station should be.

I enjoyed 'CAU-FM back then. I listened to it more than WFIL, WIBG or WIFI. I call it my oldies "education". I'll tell you how my 'CAU-FM habit ended later in this post.

Maybe some of you are asking why it didn’t last.

I have, from time to time.

Let me offer a hypothesis.

What happened was WPEN -- AM and FM!

Greater Media acquired the WPEN stations in early 1975 and temporarily took them dark – ostensibly only to make some engineering upgrades, but in reality also to break the union contracts. On March 1, under a special six-month dispensation fro the FCC, they started simulcasting an Oldies format on WPEN and what is now WMGK. (WMGK would debut as a female-targeted soft-rock, proto-AC station on September 1)

Two days before I began 9th grade. ;D

You know, I actually remember seeing commercials for WPEN-AM/FM's oldies format that spring, beginning around the time my grandfather died. Then, the last week of August (the week of my 14th birthday), I remembered those commercials, (I still had my 'CAU habit at the time) and put on WPEN-FM and heard their oldies, interrupted every half hour or so by an announcement that "beginning Monday you can only hear oldies on 950 am" or something like that.

In 1975, FM penetration in cars was still very low. Though FM had been standard on some luxury cars for a few years, it was just beginning to penetrate the lower end of the new car market. (It wasn't until Spring 1978 that Arbitron reported that total national FM listening exceeded AM for the first time, and then only by a small margin; only when a majority of cars had FM, in the mid-Eighties, did FM move into a commanding lead.)

For those first six months, ’PEN played only pre-British Invasion records with a Top 40 formatics and semi-comedic newscasts. Because of the simulcast advantage, WPEN was able to compete with 'CAU-FM for the FM audience and attracted a car audience confined to AM as well, and its total (AM and FM) audience soon dwarfed 98.1’s.

During that fall of 1975 I slowly drifted one-way from 'CAU-FM to "95-PEN". But not before partaking a couple of episodes on 98.1 of the syndicated "Dick Clark's Music Machine" (similar format to Clark's later "Rock, Roll and Remember"). I recall one week Dick's theme was the career of Phil Spector, another week, Philly artists, etc. But I digress. By Christimas '75 I think, I had moved to WPEN permanently.

The weakness of WPEN was Greater Media’s preference for pallid covers of seminal rock’n’roll classics: “Sincerely” by the McGuire Sisters instead of the Moonglows and (even worse) “Sh-Boom” by the Crew Cuts instead of the Chords.

And it wasn’t just the black artists who got this treatment. The 1975 WPEN played “Butterfly” by Andy Williams every time -- in Charlie Gracie’s home town!

Of course, ’CAU-FM had a shortcoming of it own. The station had been adding far too many currents – so many that it had started to sound more like a WFIL “Million Dollar Weekend” circa 1969 than a real Oldies station. (I think this may have been because of pressure from corporate headquarters; remember, at that time CBS owned one of the major record companies, and also did custom record pressing in its plants for other labels, including Warner Brothers, Elektra, Atlantic, A&M, Mercury, Vanguard, 20th Century, etc., and thus had an interest in the sale of current material -- both their own Columbia, Epic et al. releases and those of many of their competitors.)

So THAT explains the prescence of all those "Future Golds" on 98.1! Didn't WCBS-FM have "Future Golds" too?

CBS threw in the towel and flipped the station to disco as “Fascinatin’ Rhythm 98” in 1976. But they should have toughed it out, because ’PEN wouldn’t last.

On September 1 (when WPEN-FM became WMGK), ’PEN added hits from the years 1964-66, and added newer and newer material every three months thereafter, while de-emphasizing the real Oldies that had made their initial impression in the market. Listening plummeted, and in 1979 they flipped to Nostalgia (now called Adult Standards).

It took me about a year to notice the flip, then I split with WPEN. I believe WNEW-AM flipped from AC to Standards around the same time WPEN did. I also remember during 1980 WPEN had psychic Valerie Morrison (whose colunm ran in the Phila. Journal) on Sunday nights.

Philly was without an Oldies station until 1989 when WCAU-FM, after “Hot Hits” CHR had run its course, flipped to Oldies under its current call.

WOGL was a reasonably good Oldies station until 2001, when it first tried to “modernize” its sound under orders form corporate headquarters (and temporarily reversed course, at least partially, six months later). But this post is already getting a little long, so I’ll leave that discussion for later. (And never mind WPEN's abortive return to Oldies from Septembe 2004 to October 2005. The play ist was every bit as restricted, and thus as boring, as WOGL'S. Only the era was different!)

 

[surfdude]

The Oldies station most of you WANT to hear, would not be successful,
as MOST of the listeners would be over 55 years old. Not enough
advertisers are buying 55+.

Be happy WOGL even exists. A tight, familiar playlist, songs even 30 and 40-somethings
like and recognize, is the ONLY way to compete today.

A big, deep playlist Oldies station like CBS-FM in New York quit delivering the demos in 2000.

Time marches on.

 

[8638]

I don't think the problem is the advertisers. Rather, it is the salespeople trying to sell to them. To a twentysomething, 46 is one foot in the grave! (I'm 46, alive, well, athletic...and have a few discretionary bucks I like to spend!). 65 is dead. They can't sell it, so it doesn't rate being programmed. Meanwhile radio TSL decreases, and they wonder why. Answer: there are only so many 25-54 women to program to. All this crap is the end product of deregulation, IMHO. The CC's of the world, and their smaller cousins, are carrying boatloads of debt, and they think picking from the same pile of listeners is going to make it happen for them.

And, honestly, why are these same advertisers using the music of the 60's extensively in many of their TV spots? Answer: some of the most recognizable music of the twentieth century, that is familiar and upbeat to most Americans, even those in their 20's.

People knock Runwithscissors, calling him a racist, etc., but he is right. If you aren't a 25-54 female or black, there isn't much on the dial for you. I wish radio well, but for the life of me I don't understand it any more.

 

[crmc]

Your perspective is not without merit, but you've lost an important point. Only about 25% of the advertising you hear in a large market is sold by radio sellers to advertisers. The rest is placed by Ad agencies. 75% of the business,it is predetermined what the target demo is and then Stations sell them their story based on how much of that audience they have. It's a pricing game the buying community started 30 years ago and those that buy were able to get an edge over those that sell.And of that 75% of the total business, over 80% of that is targeted at 25-54. It's silly, it's age discreminitory, it's ultimately responsible for the homoginazation of Radio.But it's NOT the fault of the Radio stations.They have to follow the money. Until posters understand that they will drone on about programming nuances without a grasp on the why of all this.
So, survivors in the business learn to adapt , while they strive to keep up a product that can please most, do OK in ratings, and still attract enough of this business targeted to a demographic that the stations have no control over.
That's why Alternative Rock, Active Rock, Oldies, Standards,or most formats that focus on either end of the age group struggle to remain viable.If you follow the money you will find the answer.Preaching to the stations that have already been clobbered by this reality is not going to affect change. Change lies with the ad community, agencies, planners, buyers and ultimately advertisers.

 

[BRUSSTAR]

Great To See Some On Here "Get It"

This is a great thread; it's great to read comments (even ones I disagree slightly with) from guys who actually have been (or are) there and know what they're talking about.

To add to what CRMC said, radio would love to be able to go after demos other than 25-54 Female. But the blame, I believe, lies with both the agencies and the medium. Sure, it's the Madison Avenue punks who are dictating this. But much like the U.S. seems unable (or unwilling) to reduce its dependence on foreign oil, terrestrial radio is either too scared or too lazy to reduce its dependence on agency buys. And because of this, terrestrial radio finds itself without being in a position of controlling its own destiny.

Heavy direct sales is a tough game to play. But the ones who have cracked the code (obviously more of them in smaller markets) have found that a few years of hard work were able to lead to many more future years of easier success. And those guys are enjoying life more than the ones trying to find ways to convince New York buying their two-share is a worthwhile investment.

Again, great thread, and how neat to hear from Diamond Jim Nettleton?!

 

[8638]

George and crmc: I appreciate both of your responses. And, of course, you are correct. It does seem as if small/medium market stations do better in the non 25-54 female and black formats. Case study in point: WHLI Hempstead, L.I, NY. A daytimer on 1100 Khz, adult standards. Format has been tweaked forward to the 60's, but retains many pop standards (Bennett, Sinatra et al). I live on the Jersey shore, in Ocean County, and this 10 Kw out of market daytimer consistently appears in the Monmouth-Ocean book, sometimes beating the local 'adult' AM (which is on the bird most of the day, and has crappy live/local programming the rest of the time). I hear WHLI in local businesses, and it's an out of market station!! I bring it up because, somehow, their sales force sells lots of time. Granted, most of it is local, not national, but it is being sold. And, despite my being a little younger than their target, I tune them in sometimes. Why? I like live, local radio, and enjoy listening to live, local advertising, too.

When WOGL does their 12 minute stopsets, I immediately hit the button for something else. Who the hell wants to listen to 12 minutes of commercials? If I had a business, I wouldn't buy time on a station that would throw my spot into a 12 minute stopset. It's easy to calculate when 'OGL is going to come out of its stopset. A station that was, and could be, so much more.

 

[gwjr67]

While there's plenty of truth to the notion that agencies are forcing stations to pigeon hole their programming to 25-54, females, and blacks, I don't think that's entirely the case. Let's look at McDonald's for instance. Do you think they are buying 25-54, black, or female numbers? Are they not a major player on broadcast? They don't want to reach 25-54 year olds (parents...black, female, or otherwise), who are being told everyday by the mainstream media how fat we are & that we're killing ourselves with fast food. They want KIDS. A much more effective campaign is getting your 5 year old to bug the hell out of you for the latest Happy Meal & toy every time you pass a golden arch. Hence the marriage with Disney & Radio Disney. This is just one simple example with obvious motives & objectives. One other example without all the detail. Is Vince McMahon scratching for advertisers to showcase his pro wrestling circus to poorly educated males in all demos???
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a station just needs to have the grapefruits to identify a niche audience with a need and pound away at it. Conventional wisdom is that you can sell more if you try to be more things to more people. I say that's not the case. Deliver 18-34 males in absolutely dominant numbers and grab all of the beer and big screen TV spots you can! When the advertisers measure the success of their campaigns you'll hit paydirt.

 

[MrRF]

McDonald's demo is 18-49 adults for a portion of their monies, Black adults 18-49. Sometimes they go older( to 54 for breakfast dollars).
The beers target 21-34 but made a promise to MADD to not buy stations with a teen percentage of 30 % in their cume which hurt many of the Active rock or Alternative Rock stations, many forced out of format.
Virtually ALL of the electronics stores target Adults 25-54.
I guess we'd all like to simplify or romanticize radio, but a big portion of it is about attacting the ad dollars.
The small markets bill small, no one makes money there except the owner or maybe the GM or Sales Manager. Sometimes a huge morning show.

 

[radioskeptic]

Those who keep spouting the "conventional wisdom" about Oldies should look at one rather obscure, but very informative, piece of research. (And remember that the phrase "conventional wisdom," which was coined by the late economist John Kenneth Galbraith, is almost always used ironically.)

"Oldies Insights 2003: Is Newer Music Helping or Hurting?", a Coleman study, contained some interesting findings. The most interesting ones were that (1) a heavy emphasis on Motown seemed to have no significant effect one way or the other; that (2) going heavy on Hard Rock and/or (3) '70s material (two categories that overlap) was harmful; and that (4) newer music doesn’t necessarily attract younger audiences. In fact, stations with older music actually had a slightly younger audience, though not by a statistically significant margin.[1] Coleman offered the following explanation:

“While the newer stations [that is, stations playing newer music] are not appreciably older in audience than the older stations, the mere fact that they are just as old [in audience], if not actually a little older, is surprising. The answer to this apparent contradiction is that the listeners least likely to defect form an Oldies station are older listeners. While these listeners may not like the newer sound, they are extremely loyal to the Oldies station, so they stay with it. Younger listeners (25-to-54-year-olds) want an Oldies station to be more in synch with their expectations and are less likely to embrace the newer sound that an older audience sticks with. Thus, if an Oldies station gets too new, younger listeners are just as disappointed, if not more so, than older listeners.”[2]

The authors of the Coleman study also acknowledged that “because so few stations play much ’50s, we were not able to examine the percentage of ’50s on a station and predict performance. Most stations play less than 10%, which is the case today and was also true as far back as in 2000.”[3]

Here's a link: http://www.colemaninsights.com/onlines/Coleman Oldies Insights Winter 2003.pdf

Notes: [1] Key findings were summarized on pages 3 and 4. [2] Page 13. [3] Page 18.

 

[MrRF]

Here's one for your conventional wisdom insights:
I attended the session at an industry conference where Coleman presented this study.The group I was with came away from it feeling that 70s were OK on an Oldies station but most 80s were not. Sort of if they wore thin ties,they probably wouldn't fit( Pet Shop Boys, Duran Duran, even Huey Lewis).
But Mr Radioskeptic, you'll appreciate this...it was all a pitch for doing research..Music studies, perceptual studies. That's what it was...his close was that each markets tastes are different, so do a study, ask the listeners what they want and survive.That's what Coleman is...a research company specializing in music studies.
Funny, most did not do the research and half the Oldies stations in the USA went out of business since this '03 study.
Either they listened to Radio folks tired of the same old songs and added depth( most Oldies stations learned Depth = Death) or they stayed the course, shrinking their 25-54 audience a little more each day.
The question remains still unanswered: share with us ONE STATION in a rated market that plays such depth and still plays 50s with a ratings story. Just one. Know why you can't? Because there ISN'T ONE.

 

[Diamond Jim]

A couple of points regarding play list size: yes, there are stations doing well with large play lists – for instance, those consulted by E. Alvin Davis, one of the only consultants in the business who actually knows what he’s doing and is not just good at corporate speak. In the 70s, my play list at CAU-FM was in excess of 1400 titles. Now before someone jumps in with a maniacal look on his face and gleefully shouts ‘See – I told you that’s why they tanked’ – let me elaborate on that whole situation. We had done extremely well for an FM of the period. WPEN had success when they went oldies for a couple of reasons – first, any new ball game in town usually gets initial attention – staying power is the key, of course. In our case then, we had virtually no promotional budget and WPEN came in with a blitz. It is true also, as was noted in a couple of the posts that FM was still the stepchild in those days. The fact is that after the initial book in which they beat us, we bounced back well and probably would have continued that trend had not Jim Keating wanted to be the hippest GM on the block and go disco.

I did extensive research at that time and found that most of the listeners gained by WPEN had come from sources other than CAU-FM – clear evidence that there were many oldies listeners out there that we hadn’t reached with our meager promotional efforts - they didn't know about us.

Ironically, but not unusual for this business, we had all been assured just two weeks before the format change at CAU-FM by none other than Bob Cole, then VP of CBS, that, and I quote, “If you think CBS is going to let Greater Media come in here and take our oldies format from us, you're very mistaken.” This had been precipitated by me, after telling Jim Keating that our staff deserved better than to have their lives played with in the wake of the very credible rumors circulating at that time.

So play list size had nothing to do with all that. Now, as regards the WPEN recent oldies debacle – all of us were thoroughly deceived by that situation. Initially, the station manager at the time wanted me to program it – we had several meetings prior to the format change, in which I pointed out to them what was needed for an AM with a crappy signal to actually attract listeners for a music format, especially in this town. It didn’t work out, of course, and WPEN wound up playing roughly 40% of what WOGL was playing, a sure recipe for disaster. They also, of course, refused to give up their weekend programming and other albatrosses they suffered with. So it became a part time oldies station saddled with a miserable signal and inadequate internal vision - then again, maybe they really wanted to go sports all along.

Let’s go back to the original point – contributors say, ‘show me a station…….’ – does it ever occur to those folk that the reason the number of stations with large play lists are few is because management today falls victim to the propaganda and doesn’t even try? They are told by the ever-present consultants everything from A to Z and happily accept the advice because – GOD FORBID they should make an independent decision – then, they might have to take responsibility for it. Much easier to point at the research and say, ‘see, they told me – I was only following their advice – it’s not my fault.’ As I mentioned in a previous post, if you are an adult over 40 who has even only casually listened to radio during your life and you can honestly tell me that you only like 250-300 songs, then I submit you are severely audio-challenged, or have spent most of your adult life in a Tibetan Monastery.

Oldies stations settle on such absurdly tight play lists as a result of self-serving research – as we all know, hooks are played for an audience of less than absorbed folk, who must respond in 6 seconds or less not only to whether they like the song (if they can even recognize it) but how often they’d like to hear it. They are asked to make both a qualitative and quantitative analysis that many of us could not make, in the snap of a finger. And the list of songs they’re exposed to gets shorter and shorter – so research fulfills its own prophecy. Ever attend one of those sessions and observed that as time goes on, participant’s answers become more hasty and less disciplined? They just want to get out of there and collect their checks. Yet we base all of our programming decisions on this. Curious, isn't it, that with all that research going on, every station isn't #1?

And once again – those people that continually say that stations like WOGL are successful because they ‘play the hits’ – please – as mentioned before, they were hits – they aren’t now.

And also again – a few years back, when I was still at WOGL and it actually played a good, varied list and actually did legitimate specialty shows, not contrived imitations, the station had double digit numbers on the weekend, was #1 weekends and #2 during the week – a position they haven’t remotely approached since with the ‘successful’ formula of pounding the same, tired songs over and over again. Entertainment is all about unpredictability – you must have that surprise factor, the ‘Oh wow’, if you will, to keep interest. Only Cozy Morley could succeed doing the same act for decades. Most comedians need a variety of material to keep an audience’s attention.

One thing I’ve learned over more than 40 years of doing clubs, dances, and special events of all kinds around the Delaware Valley is that the musical tastes of the people in this region are wide and deep. And I know they aren’t satisfied with what they hear on today’s stale, stultified radio stations. As E. Alvin Davis says, financial success of an oldies station isn’t a format problem, it’s a sales problem. Find people who can actually sell, and not be content merely to accept an order, and the problem could go away. After all, they’re dealing with a demographic that has a commanding amount of expendable income – but today’s sales folk don’t seem to think that someone 55-60 actually buys cars, appliances, clothes, goes on trips and stays at hotels, eats out at restaurants, etc. And today’s merchants are believing their pitch that all advertising MUST be directed to 20 and 30 somethings.

Just one more thing about extensive play lists – RadioPhillyStyle.com, with virtually no publicity push to date, has listeners in 90 cities in the US and 34 countries worldwide. Not one has complained of hearing too many songs.

Have a good night, all.

Jim Nettleton

 

[gwjr67]

Let’s go back to the original point – contributors say, ‘show me a station…….’ – does it ever occur to those folk that the reason the number of stations with large play lists are few is because management today falls victim to the propaganda and doesn’t even try? They are told by the ever-present consultants everything from A to Z and happily accept the advice because – GOD FORBID they should make an independent decision – then, they might have to take responsibility for it. Much easier to point at the research and say, ‘see, they told me – I was only following their advice – it’s not my fault.

Again, further evidence that the next pioneer in our industry is the person who isn't afraid to swim upstream against the current of a media conglomerate that is trying to bully him/her into doing what the research says, lest they be blackballed by the industry as a loose cannon renegade.
It will happen one day. Maybe it'll be a programmer that hits the powerball, buys a station and does things the way they want to, without fear of losing a job that puts food on his family's table. I can see it now. Their face will be plastered on Forbes or Time with the headline "How I Saved Broadcast Radio" Remember how crazy those two guys must have sounded when they put Google together with all of it's quirky corporate rules.

 

[MrRF]

A lot of pontificating here. And the question stays unanswered. Name an Oldies OR Classic Rock station with a 1400 song playlist and a ratings story.Please...name one. There aren't any.Or an internet radio station making any money that isn't a line extention of an OVER THE AIR RADIO STATION.
As to consultants blaming the sales department....it sounds like most of the writers on this thread never sold a radio commercial in their life. If you think not having great sellers was the demise of 1400 song playlist radio stations, I have a bridge I'd like to show you and some swamp land in the Poconos.
A strong sales initiative can sell the demos that are older. And they are affluent.I AGREE.But when 80%of the ad dollars in a market like Philadelphia are agency controlled and targetted to 25-54 all this talk of it being a sales problem is romantic BS. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.The ad agency's make the demo targets and the radio stations adapt to get their piece of it.I don't like that reality but most who can't deal with this are former broadcasters, many who couldn't accept the ramifications of deregulation either.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Thanks, Jim, for your intelligent comments and insight. With your internet station you have a chance to break the mold and provide neglected audiences, entertainment by changing the revenue paradigm.
You have my best wishes for success.

 

[gwjr67]

"Dittos" from GWJR67...oops, sorry, didn't mean to quote another talk show pioneer that broke the mold and proved that Republican Conservative talk radio CAN sell. Yep, research told now EIB it would never work. How about ESPN? What? Sports on TV 24/7 with an initial programming schedule that included 18 hours a day of Australian Rules Football and squash matches. Yeah, that sounded like a winner in 1982.
All kidding aside Jim, I too hope Radio Philly Style prospers. I am doing my part in northeast PA to help it along by spreading the word. And for the record, I happen to be a 39 year old MALE that the agencies aren't targeting. But I guess that shouldn't surprise anyone since I don't follow "conventional wisdom". Have fun boys!