I thought stations was expose to be spaced out even if it was a low powered station. K203CC was turned 88.3 on yesterday. I can no longer recieve KPAC now. KPAC has at least a 50 mile coverage, and K203CC was put in about 60 miles from KPAC. I sent a letter to the FCC about it, no response yet. I also sent a copy to KPAC. No response. I guess the fringe does not mean much any more if it ever did. Oh well, guess another low powered station got in. Only thing that makes me mad about the whole thing is that other low powered stations can probably and probably will move in and take up every station I listened to San antonio. This has got to get under control.
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I dont guess FCC cares about fringes any more?
- Thread starter jras20
- Start date
If you are really 50 miles away from the station you're trying to listen to, the FCC never cared as to whether you can get that station. Ever.
Though, I am aware that out west there are some pretty big FM's (100,000 watts and up), I'm not aware of any station getting "protection" by the FCC for interference at that distance.
A station is licensed for a particular city and a particular community. Beyond that city and that community, you're on your own as far as whether you can pick it up or not.
For example, I work for an FM station whose signal is licensed to Dayton, Ohio...but it also gets into Cincinnati, which is about 50 miles away. The FCC couldn't care less if they can hear our station in Cincinnati, because we're not licensed to serve it. It's the city of license that the FCC cares about. And, that's the way it has always been.
Though, I am aware that out west there are some pretty big FM's (100,000 watts and up), I'm not aware of any station getting "protection" by the FCC for interference at that distance.
A station is licensed for a particular city and a particular community. Beyond that city and that community, you're on your own as far as whether you can pick it up or not.
For example, I work for an FM station whose signal is licensed to Dayton, Ohio...but it also gets into Cincinnati, which is about 50 miles away. The FCC couldn't care less if they can hear our station in Cincinnati, because we're not licensed to serve it. It's the city of license that the FCC cares about. And, that's the way it has always been.
From Radio Ink this morning.
FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein commented, "Localism and diversity have always been at the heart of radio. Many low power FM stations across America reflect the best of these traditions and have flourished despite existing interference standards.
...
That's the essence of radio, and we should do all we can to promote it.
http://www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=138351&pt=InkHeadlines
FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein commented, "Localism and diversity have always been at the heart of radio. Many low power FM stations across America reflect the best of these traditions and have flourished despite existing interference standards.
...
That's the essence of radio, and we should do all we can to promote it.
http://www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=138351&pt=InkHeadlines
I agree with the commissioner on this one. Instead of promoting LPFM's for interested people in places like Gonzales, Lockhart or "Bug Tussle" the FCC has elected to allow translators to show up in an appalling number of locales, with programming piped in from Idaho. For the record, Bug Tussle TX really does exist; it's in Fannin County about 65 miles northeast of Dallas. But even if nobody there actively pursued an LPFM license, I doubt if the residents were crying out for a religious translator for their community either.
Here a link from the Community Radio section of this board, talking about a House Bill that is aimed at breathing some life back into the LPFM program: http://prometheusradio.org/media/local_community_radio_act_of_2007.pdf
It probably wouldn't have much impact on the San Antonio/Austin area or many other places, because it's coming along too late in the game. Sadly, the chances for it becoming law are probably pretty slim. But it's encouraging to see that somebody in government wants a more realistic approach to station spacing in support of truly local broadcasting.
It probably wouldn't have much impact on the San Antonio/Austin area or many other places, because it's coming along too late in the game. Sadly, the chances for it becoming law are probably pretty slim. But it's encouraging to see that somebody in government wants a more realistic approach to station spacing in support of truly local broadcasting.
JRS has a point; first of all the coverage maps are outdated/unrealistic because today's FM tuners seem pick up stations from a much further distance than what the engineers have calculated. And some people rely/use an outdoor antenna to receive their FM stations. And these little piddlers (LPFM's) play havoc with the stations that were there first. I can see why he's pissed. I'd be.
Totally not true. This is one of the few instances where "What you say goes." Read the entire rule on this. The rule number is attached. And you can bet the Translator operator knows it by heart.jras20 said:
You are the translator's WORST NIGHTMARE. A regular listener of an existing station that they have interfered with. THEY have to fix the problem. Read and enjoy...
Sec. 74.1203 Interference.
(a) An authorized FM translator or booster station will not be
permitted to continue to operate if it causes any actual interference
to:
(1) The transmission of any authorized broadcast station; or
(2) The reception of the input signal of any TV translator, TV
booster, FM translator or FM booster station; or
(3) The direct reception by the public of the off-the-air signals of
any authorized broadcast station including TV Channel 6 stations, Class
D (secondary) noncommercial educational FM stations, and previously
authorized and operating FM translators and FM booster stations.
Interference will be considered to occur whenever reception of a
regularly used signal is impaired by the signals radiated by the FM
translator or booster station, regardless of the quality of such
reception, the strength of the signal so used, or the channel on which
the protected signal is transmitted.
(b) If interference cannot be properly eliminated by the application
of suitable techniques, operation of the offending FM translator or
booster station shall be suspended and shall not be resumed until the
interference has
[[Page 524]]
been eliminated. Short test transmissions may be made during the period
of suspended operation to check the efficacy of remedial measures. If a
complainant refuses to permit the FM translator or booster licensee to
apply remedial techniques which demonstrably will eliminate the
interference without impairment to the original reception, the licensee
of the FM translator or booster station is absolved of further
responsibility for that complaint.
(c) An FM booster station will be exempted from the provisions of
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section to the extent that it may cause
limited interference to its primary station's signal, provided it does
not disrupt the existing service of its primary station or cause such
interference within the boundaries of the principal community of its
primary station.
(d) A fill-in FM translator operating on the first, second or third
adjacent channel to its primary station's channel will be exempt from
the provisions of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section to the extent
that it may cause limited interference to its primary station's signal,
provided it does not disrupt the existing service of its primary station
or cause such interference within the boundaries of the principal
community of its primary station.
(e) It shall be the responsibility of the licensee of an FM
translator or FM booster station to correct any condition of
interference which results from the radiation of radio frequency energy
by its equipment on any frequency outside the assigned channel. Upon
notice by the Commission to the station licensee that such interference
is being caused, the operation of the FM translator or FM booster
station shall be suspended within three minutes and shall not be resumed
until the interference has been eliminated or it can be demonstrated
that the interference is not due to spurious emissions by the FM
translator or FM booster station; provided, however, that short test
transmissions may be made during the period of suspended operation to
check the efficacy of remedial measures.
What all this means is that "They have to fix it and you have to let them." Or they go free. However if they want to broadcast, they have to find a way to make your continued listening to KPAC possible. Perhaps that 25 element yagi, Brick wall 88.5 filter and maybe even a high dollar receiver will be what is needed. Whatever it is, THEY'LL DO IT. They do NOT want you complaining to the FCC. Note in particular...
(b) If interference cannot be properly eliminated by the application
of suitable techniques, operation of the offending FM translator or
booster station shall be suspended and shall not be resumed until the
interference has
[[Page 524]]
been eliminated.
Translator rules are brutal. Basically, "Fix it or close down."
You have ALL the cards here. Happy Hunting.
Clouseau
clouseau said:
Indeed they don't want anybody complaining, but I don't think he has a case. If I understand it correctly, jras20 is in somewhere in Lavaca County, well outside the intended coverage areas for both stations. For reference the county seat, Hallettsville, is 108 miles east of the KPAC antenna on the northwest side of San Antonio. That's really pushing it even for a full-power station, not to mention the K203CC translator in Lockhart, which is 53 miles away.
For some KPAC listeners northeast of San Antonio, however, there's a problem that big antennas and filters won't be able to fix. A CP was issued in April that allows the translator to move to 88.3, making them a co-channel with KPAC. The towers will be just 68 miles apart. Here's the translator service area after the move: www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FX253417.html And the service area for KPAC: www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM171701.html Although Lockhart isn't shown on the KPAC coverage map, it's 15 miles east of San Marcos.
Since the Lockhart translator is located outside the "service area" of KPAC, technically it shouldn't be causing any objectionable interference. In this case, however, it's dangerously close. While the translator's usable coverage will generally be around ten miles or less, it might go a little further at times. It's also not unreasonable to assume that KPAC has some listeners who are up to 50 miles away, maybe further. The issue here, as I see it, isn't whether jras20 can listen to KPAC without interference well beyond their intended range. But listeners who are reasonably close to a large metropolitan area shouldn't have to contend with it. Someone in KPAC's northeast fringe area could very well have a legitimate complaint.
jd said:
In any other case BUT TRANSLATORS, this would be true. However note the wording...
The direct reception by the public of the off-the-air signals of
any authorized broadcast station including TV Channel 6 stations, Class
D (secondary) noncommercial educational FM stations, and previously
authorized and operating FM translators and FM booster stations.
Interference will be considered to occur whenever reception of a
regularly used signal is impaired by the signals radiated by the FM
translator or booster station, regardless of the quality of such
reception, the strength of the signal so used, or the channel on which
the protected signal is transmitted.
[/quote]
Translator operators can sometimes weasel out with the "Regularly Used" . However if you have a good antenna and "Regularly Use" KPAC they are... Uh "In trouble."
If it's HCB who owns it and you have trouble I can get you a name or email address. PM me. They're good folks. They'll make it right (like they have a choice.)
Remember translators are SECONDARY. If they interfere with Regular, they're out of here.
Clouseau
clouseau said:
Translator operators can sometimes weasel out with the "Regularly Used" . However if you have a good antenna and "Regularly Use" KPAC they are... Uh "In trouble."
If it's HCB who owns it and you have trouble I can get you a name or email address. PM me. They're good folks. They'll make it right (like they have a choice.)
Remember translators are SECONDARY. If they interfere with Regular, they're out of here.
Clouseau
[/quote]
I had no problem with them being on 88.5, I could listen to them and KPAC. This is the same issue I am having with Jack 102.7 and k274bb. But K274bb doesnt really intefear with my directional antenna... I just got a hold of KHCB, they seem to be nice people, I just would like to get it fixed!
C
CW
Guest
jras20 said:clouseau said:
Translator operators can sometimes weasel out with the "Regularly Used" . However if you have a good antenna and "Regularly Use" KPAC they are... Uh "In trouble."
If it's HCB who owns it and you have trouble I can get you a name or email address. PM me. They're good folks. They'll make it right (like they have a choice.)
Remember translators are SECONDARY. If they interfere with Regular, they're out of here.
Clouseau
I had no problem with them being on 88.5, I could listen to them and KPAC. This is the same issue I am having with Jack 102.7 and k274bb. But K274bb doesnt really intefear with my directional antenna... I just got a hold of KHCB, they seem to be nice people, I just would like to get it fixed!
[/quote]
I know the engineer who likely built the HCB translator....he is a good guy and a VERY well respected engineer who follows the rules and believes in listeners..however he doesnt have any authority to do anything as he is paid by HCB and is NOT management there..and the licensee is in control....
Seeing the old KPAC callsign is funny...it spent MANY decades on 1250 and 98.5 in Port Arthur (was CC's 1st outside SA buy for CC back in the 70s)....I still think of 1250 as KPAC.....(and a lot of old people there still think TV 4 is also KPAC...which it was until the early 70s but was NOT co-owned with 1250 or 98.5....they got the KPAC TV call somehow)
CW said:
Even if I personally don't agree with the current trend of packing translators in so tightly, it's strictly legal and it works for them. You're right about the engineer, CW, and the folks at KHCB can't be faulted for wanting to improve their coverage. The frequency switch was done so they could get a power increase (90 watts to 250), something they couldn't have done on their former channel. And although the translator now blocks reception of KPAC in the Lockhart area, for classical music there's always KMFA 89.5 from Austin, with a borderline city-grade signal.
You know the strange thing about that station, was that it was not on the tower that was North of Lockhart, it always has been on the Tower south of Lockhart when it was on 88.5. I wonder if they knew that? I'm not sure if it was at 250 watts or not, but it had the same coverage and acually went out more than it does now it seems like. I havnt really turned to that frequency since the FCC switched.
jras20 said:
That's not what the database shows. Checking back, it shows the translator has been up north (off U.S. 183) for a little over nine years, even before KHCB bought it. Here's the old coverage, with 90 watts ERP at about 115 feet: www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FX253417.html Here's the new coverage with 250 watts at about 80 feet: www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FX1179535.html Granted there's not a lot of difference in the coverage radius, but since it's transmitting from the southside antenna it may seem a little weaker if you're a few miles north of town.
Yeah but that was all wrong, it has always been south of town, when it first came up it was AFR on 88.5, then it changed to another church network from somewere, then it went back to AFR, Then it went silent for a long time. After that KHCB came on in 2006 and it was on that same tower on 88.5. Now it is on 88.3 but on the same tower. The only station that was ever on the tower on 183 was K260AB, which has since changed calls to DK260AB and it simalcast easy listening 91.3 KNCT. K260AB use to simalcast the planet in Houston a long time ago.
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