I FEEL SO DIRTY

[Savage]

Bless me, fellow posters, for I have sinned. I bought an HD Radio. Got the SONY XDR-F1HD from Amazon.com for about $80 with free super-saver shipping.

But before you start heaping the Hail-Marys on me, WAIT!! I bought the SONY to monitor our translator currently under construction, so it will be strictly purposed for analog-only listening. We have to snag a 99-watt DA signal from our AM studios & transmitter, about 25 miles from the FM site, so we wanted a supersensitive air monitor. Shouldn't be a problem using the BEXT LOG-R antenna on top of our 99-foot utility tower. Or so we hope.

The receiver seems to be a nice little brick of a radio, although I hope I don't experience the early failures noted on this board. I have to say - not impressed with HD audio quality on local stations. Not to get into resume comparisons here, but suffice it to say that with 43 years of radio experience including the setup of innumerable audio chains, I can't tell the difference between the analog and primary digital streams of FMs using HD-1. The subs sound like either sorta-okay internet streams or artifact-laden AMs. That's listening on $200 WESC e-8.4 audiophile headphones, and my 59-year old hearing is okay. I can still hear the horizontal oscillator in old CRT televisions, so my "head response" still goes out to 15,752.

Maybe HD sounds better on stations using only HD-1 with no subs, but I didn't try that. I didn't try out the SONY on AM because it would be pointless with the 25kw Nautel running about 15 feet away.

 

[Tom Wells]

What? The greatly touted rejection of wanted-to-unwanted signal rejection doesn't extend to the AM section?
I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you. Why wouldn't the RF selectivity be just as good in AM section?
No real TRF pre-amp stage, or no no shielding adequate for AM? Is the case metal or plastic?
I forgive you, I bought two of them.

 

[BRNout]

Bob, you are forgiven. After all, it would be very difficult to accurately assess the strengths and weaknesses of the IBOC system without having an HD Radio to play with. It'll just make your various contributions to the discussion that much more credible.

Just be sure to shower after each use!

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Do yourself a favor and put it on an UPS. We have a few of the Sony tuners also, for monitoring purposes, and when the power fails they get stupid and re-tune themselves to 530kHz.

 

[ddsparxx]

I have this HD tuner for over a year now (I use it mostly for FM DX), and it sounds fine to me on a local AM station. On one AMer with HD (WTEM in DC), the high frequencies sound a little harsh to me. I use a home-made loop antenna that is 2 ft accross, with 3 turns of wire and with the XDR-F1HD it pulls in weak stations well and better than the little supplied loop.
I'd like to see something like a XDR-F2HD, with improved selectivity on AM, 1kHz AM tuning steps, forced analog mode and a power supply that runs cooler. And ability to hear AM in stereo.

 

[Carmine5]

Come home, Bob, all is forgiven.

Actually this tuner has been getting exceptionally good reviews for its analog FM section.

http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=35

With a minor filter modification (mentioned here: http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/xdr-f1hd.htm ) it can do a nice job reproducing AM as well--no C-QuAM though.

However, until I can get an HD Radio to perform well in a store (with antenna connected, natch) which has yet to happen, I ain't buying one for the house or car. As the man said something about 'prying an analog radio from my cold, dead fingers.'

c5

 

[KB1OKL]

The AM section is an afterthought just like on 99.9% of the rest of the tuners sold in the last 40 years. Make sure you don't store anything inflammable near it.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

I love mine for FM DX reception. It's simply the best radio ever built IMHO. I could care less about the HD junk. It's the selectivity I love!

Dividing the FM HD up to two signals makes the primary sound worse than analog can sound IMHO. If they were going to go this route, it would have been better IMHO to allow a flag to just keep the primary analog and make the two or three digitals digital only if a station choose to do so.

 

[pqgeorge]

I love mine for FM DX reception. It's simply the best radio ever built IMHO. I could care less about the HD junk. It's the selectivity I love!

Dividing the FM HD up to two signals makes the primary sound worse than analog can sound IMHO. If they were going to go this route, it would have been better IMHO to allow a flag to just keep the primary analog and make the two or three digitals digital only if a station choose to do so.

Can you disable the "HD" section in that receiver so that it doesn't switch back and forth from analog to IBOC? In my own experience with IBOC, I personally don't give a rats a** about the HD capabilities anyway. There's nothing compelling about the HD2 or 3 streams (at least here in Boston) that really "tickle my fancy". And frankly, the digital streams (even the HD1's) sound tinny and "not right". Much as I love my Sirius/XM in the car, the IBOC sounds almost identical in quality. It's NOT true "FM quality". The AM "IBOC" (if you can make it "lock up") sounds like the highs are artificially created. DRE ("FMeXtra") had the better system. But, unfortunately.... they buckled down to pressure and are now "investors" of iBiquity and are no longer pursuing the marketing of their better digital system to the general market. They are only selling it just for narrow-casting purposes (like digital SCA for ethnic and pay services). And that's a shame too.

But as they say..... "It's better.... IT'S DIGITAL!" (....so are cell-phone calls).

 

[Play Freebird]

Can you disable the "HD" section in that receiver so that it doesn't switch back and forth from analog to IBOC? In my own experience with IBOC, I personally don't give a rats a** about the HD capabilities anyway. There's nothing compelling about the HD2 or 3 streams (at least here in Boston) that really "tickle my fancy". And frankly, the digital streams (even the HD1's) sound tinny and "not right". Much as I love my Sirius/XM in the car, the IBOC sounds almost identical in quality. It's NOT true "FM quality".

Yes, you can force the Sony tuner to analog with a modification described near the bottom of this page:

http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/xdr-f1hd.htm

Peter, I share your opinion of FM IBOC audio quality. Before multicasting took hold, I did notice a subjective improvement on several local FM stations (when the digital signal would decode), but after they began splitting the bandwidth, HD-1 audio lost much of its "impact", to the degree that I prefer analog.

Have you heard the latest announcement from iBiquity? A new Importer software update will allow up to four channels -- just what we don't need.

To anyone serious about broadcasting true high-end digital audio to home receivers over the air, here's a plan: Acquire or LMA a DTV license, either full service or LPTV. Run a low-cost or bartered "standard definition" satellite service on the main channel (to remain qualified as a TV station) and then split the ample remaining bandwidth into a bunch of audio-only services, each of which can provide full Dolby AC-3 quality. You'll even be able to transmit programming in 5.1 surround for stunning "concert hall" realism! Perfect for classical music or a progressive rock format. Listeners who want to receive this service without a TV set would simply add a $100 ATSC set-top tuner with stereo output to their existing audio system. If this idea catches on, the price of tuners will decline and we will start to see portables.

WFME-TV in New York already operates all of its subchannels as audio-only, but they aren't music oriented:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFME-TV

 

[davideduardo]

.

To anyone serious about broadcasting true high-end digital audio to home receivers over the air, here's a plan: Acquire or LMA a DTV license, either full service or LPTV. Run a low-cost or bartered "standard definition" satellite service on the main channel (to remain qualified as a TV station) and then split the ample remaining bandwidth into a bunch of audio-only services, each of which can provide full Dolby AC-3 quality.

Of course, any listening to the TV channels would essentially subtract ratings from the radio station... making this a less than ideal situation revenue-wise.

 

[nd2023]

.

To anyone serious about broadcasting true high-end digital audio to home receivers over the air, here's a plan: Acquire or LMA a DTV license, either full service or LPTV. Run a low-cost or bartered "standard definition" satellite service on the main channel (to remain qualified as a TV station) and then split the ample remaining bandwidth into a bunch of audio-only services, each of which can provide full Dolby AC-3 quality.

Of course, any listening to the TV channels would essentially subtract ratings from the radio station... making this a less than ideal situation revenue-wise.

WNYZ-LP channel 6 just runs color bars on the video and a dance station on the audio at 87.7 FM.

 

[davideduardo]

WNYZ-LP channel 6 just runs color bars on the video and a dance station on the audio at 87.7 FM.

WNYZ is not simulcasting another station.

It's a special exception to the Arbitron rule since the frequency can be tuned to on many/most regular analog FM radios and is thus "radio." If a digital TV is needed, so far, Arbitron has determined that such a station is television and would be rated in the TV world. Further, if anything is different between the AM or FM on air station and the digital broadcast, then a true simulcast does not exist and the listening does not fall to the originating station. Same is true of most Internet streams.... they are not combined with the on air signal's ratings as they are, in most cases, not identical.

 

[jras20]

The best tuner I have is the sangean hdt-1x. I have a good antenna hooked onto it. The best part about it is that you can force analog. Is there any other home receiver out there that can do that?

 

[Carmine5]

.

To anyone serious about broadcasting true high-end digital audio to home receivers over the air, here's a plan: Acquire or LMA a DTV license, either full service or LPTV. Run a low-cost or bartered "standard definition" satellite service on the main channel (to remain qualified as a TV station) and then split the ample remaining bandwidth into a bunch of audio-only services, each of which can provide full Dolby AC-3 quality.

Of course, any listening to the TV channels would essentially subtract ratings from the radio station... making this a less than ideal situation revenue-wise.

WNYZ-LP channel 6 just runs color bars on the video and a dance station on the audio at 87.7 FM.

As yet there is still no cut off date for LPTV stations to end analog service but I suspect the FCC will eventually set one (the Commission has been nudging these stations toward that goal anyway). At that point the "Franken FMs" on Ch. 6 will disappear.

As I mentioned earlier, the Mobile DTV spec makes provisions for radio and datacasting. So a television station can either program its own radio station or rebroadcast an AM signal or NOAA weather.

c5

 

[Mike Walker]

The real strength of the Sony XDR-F1HD...at least until there's more on HD that's worth listening to...is that it's perhaps the most sensitive, selective tuner ever offered for analog FM Stereo.

Due to it's use of DSP signal processing, the 'stereo penalty" of hiss as signal level decreaases for all practical purposes doesn't exist. Attach it to a decent antenna, and tiny signals you previously could only get in mono...if at all..now come through in fully-separated stereo. It truly is remarkable.

It may be the best DX tuner ever...putting to shame the analog "Super-Tuners" of the 70s and 80s. EVERYONE who loves FM Stereo should have one. Screw HD if it "ain't your thang". There are mod instructions on the 'net that will allow anyone handy with a soldering iron to add a "forced-analog" option.

Buy one. They're spectacular performers, and dirt cheap. What's not to love?