I guess the economy is that bad...

[JamzUSA]

I've noticed that K104 has went down on their cash prize that goes along with their grand prize that they give away Monday mornings on Skip Murphy. They used to give away $1000, but they have cut it in half to $500. Man, I guess it is getting tough everywhere.

 

[Slambang]

> I've noticed that K104 has went down on their cash prize
> that goes along with their grand prize that they give away
> Monday mornings on Skip Murphy. They used to give away
> $1000, but they have cut it in half to $500. Man, I guess
> it is getting tough everywhere.
>
Naw...just at K 10 Flzzoh

All kidding aside,the economy is just fine, its peoples perception that is sucks

 

[Spicerun]

>
> All kidding aside,the economy is just fine, its peoples
> perception that is sucks
>

I'll be certain to tell my 2 friends who have been looking for a job all over the country for the past 3 years that it is just their perception. I'm sure they will appreciate that message. Of course I appreciate that the 10 months of me being out of work was just another perception rather than the economy, and our family really didn't take a financial hit during that period.

**End of Sarcasm***

 

[bluescreen]

Actually the economy is fine but there are a ton of penny pinching asswipes at the top of the heap who are hording the cash flow. The economy is growing at a 3-4% clip which is damn good but these tight-fisted corporate jerkoffs aren't reinvesting their profits. Instead they're looking to further rape the American worker by getting free trade deals like CAFTA ratified. Apparently the Mexican workers are making too much, they need to relocate jobs to Nicaragua now.

Even though the economy is plugging along well, median American income is unchanged over the last four years. Prices have gone up during the same period meaning the number of people living in poverty has also gone up.

I heard one caller on Knapp's show use totally bogus statistics to try to defend Bush's economic policies. He said in 1996 the poverty rate was 13.6% and in 2004 it was 11.7% so in his words "Bush is doing something right for the poor." Wrong answer. Between 1996 and 2000 the poverty rate decreased from 13.6%-11.2%. The poverty rate has increased fractionally every year under Bush from 11.2%-11.7%.

 

[JamzUSA]

> >
> > All kidding aside,the economy is just fine, its peoples
> > perception that is sucks
> >
>
> I'll be certain to tell my 2 friends who have been looking
> for a job all over the country for the past 3 years that it
> is just their perception. I'm sure they will appreciate
> that message. Of course I appreciate that the 10 months of
> me being out of work was just another perception rather than
> the economy, and our family really didn't take a financial
> hit during that period.
>
> **End of Sarcasm***
>

That's kinda the way I felt, but when I say something, it's considered angry and negative.

 

[RickRose]

> >
> > All kidding aside,the economy is just fine, its peoples
> > perception that is sucks
> >
>
> I'll be certain to tell my 2 friends who have been looking
> for a job all over the country for the past 3 years that it
> is just their perception. I'm sure they will appreciate
> that message. Of course I appreciate that the 10 months of
> me being out of work was just another perception rather than
> the economy, and our family really didn't take a financial
> hit during that period.
>
> **End of Sarcasm***
>

I'm am hiring now in Atlanta for people that want to work and not just have a job to have one. It may not be broadcasting but they are good jobs with potential to advance and make a career.

 

[rev_darkness]

I find it intensely interesting that someone could be out of work and looking for a job for three years, when the convenience store down the street from my house has had a "Help Wanted" sign in the window for almost a year.

I mean... really... how long do you have to be out of work before you suck it up? How hard is it to punch numbers and count money?<P ID="signature">______________
"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Edgar Allen Poe</P>

 

[Tom_Desmond]

> I mean... really... how long do you have to be out of work
> before you suck it up? How hard is it to punch numbers and
> count money?

There are plenty of tech folks who have taken jobs like that, but they are also still looking on the side for something that will actually use their skills and background and pay decently. If you ask folks in that position, even though they are marginally employed, most of them will tell you that they're also still looking for work.

In any event, when someone loses a well-paying professional job and ends up working as a check-out clerk for $8/hour, you probably don't want to tell them that the economy is good...they're likely to rather vehemently disagree.

 

[edwardrmurrow]

> Actually the economy is fine but there are a ton of penny
> pinching asswipes at the top of the heap who are hording the
> cash flow. The economy is growing at a 3-4% clip which is
> damn good but these tight-fisted corporate jerkoffs aren't
> reinvesting their profits. Instead they're looking to
> further rape the American worker by getting free trade deals
> like CAFTA ratified. Apparently the Mexican workers are
> making too much, they need to relocate jobs to Nicaragua
> now.
>
> Even though the economy is plugging along well, median
> American income is unchanged over the last four years.
> Prices have gone up during the same period meaning the
> number of people living in poverty has also gone up.
>
> I heard one caller on Knapp's show use totally bogus
> statistics to try to defend Bush's economic policies. He
> said in 1996 the poverty rate was 13.6% and in 2004 it was
> 11.7% so in his words "Bush is doing something right for the
> poor." Wrong answer. Between 1996 and 2000 the poverty
> rate decreased from 13.6%-11.2%. The poverty rate has

Several good points. One politcal party wants to cut taxes,and of course its good Pr for the public. Some of the public fail to realize however that when a tax cut hits, services are cut back like police, fire,city maintainence projects,etc. How often have you seen taxes cut but prices rise twice the amount of the cut.? Quite often,and the majority of the profits made are not reinvested into a company creating more jobs. It's pocketed by the ceos, etc. If a company doesn't meet its year end profit goal,jobs are cut in January. Some of the profit goals are exagerated,rather than realistic in keeping a company profitable and viable. Cc has done that all too often in the last 7 years. The unemployment rolls have been seriously manipulated since 1983 when the Reagan administration decided to add the figure of active duty military personel to the figures so it would relect a lower number of claims. Every President has used that method since and if your unemployment is exhausted you no longer are counted. So whatever the unemployment figure is add about 2-3% more so it would be closer in reflecting a more relaistic figure. The economy is lousy,the job market for a liveable wage is apalling.


>

 

[AliceTheCook]

What the unemployment numbers DON'T show are the one who have exhausted their unemployment benefits and still haven't found a job, plus the ones UNDERemployed (like the MS-certified computer guru working checkout at 7-11.) Thanks to creative spinning by the govt, the economy looks pretty rosy.

Or consider that our kids and grandkids will be the ones stuck with the $188 BILLION tab for this "war." That hurts THEIR economy, not ours, right? Why even worry?

Just in my little circle of, say, 300 friends, acquaintances, email buddies, extended family and the like, I know of only ONE who is still making what he made in 2000, and is still working for the same company in the same position. And silly him, he's been waiting for a promotion and a raise for five years now.

But I guess those few out there who haven't been affected by any economic woes over the last 5 years should have no reason whatsoever to worry about the rest of us, and to keep spouting off all the "merits" of their president and their congress, and continue to ignore facts and figures over spin and "perception management." The rest of us will just keep floundering at the bottom and put ALL the blame and responsibility on ourselves. Perhaps I could borrow those rose-colored glasses for a day so "I" wouldn't have any worries myself for a moment or two. BUT TURNING A BLIND EYE IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM DOESN'T MAKE THE PROBLEMS DISAPPEAR. Burying my head in the Bible doesn't, either.

I can't wait until the proper historical perspective of these times can be told. I'll be the first to tell the neo-cons and the dittoheads, "I told you so."

> > I mean... really... how long do you have to be out of
> work
> > before you suck it up? How hard is it to punch numbers
> and
> > count money?
>
> There are plenty of tech folks who have taken jobs like
> that, but they are also still looking on the side for
> something that will actually use their skills and background
> and pay decently. If you ask folks in that position, even
> though they are marginally employed, most of them will tell
> you that they're also still looking for work.
>
> In any event, when someone loses a well-paying professional
> job and ends up working as a check-out clerk for $8/hour,
> you probably don't want to tell them that the economy is
> good...they're likely to rather vehemently disagree.
>

 

[AliceTheCook]

> I've noticed that K104 has went down on their cash prize
> that goes along with their grand prize that they give away
> Monday mornings on Skip Murphy. They used to give away
> $1000, but they have cut it in half to $500. Man, I guess
> it is getting tough everywhere.
>

Shoot, I remember in K-104's earliest days, that the big contest was "TEN DOLLARS OF FREE MONEY" to the ___th caller. Another promotion gave away free soccer balls to the right caller. Now THAT'S cheap!!

 

[rev_darkness]

> What the unemployment numbers DON'T show are the one who
> have exhausted their unemployment benefits and still haven't
> found a job, plus the ones UNDERemployed (like the
> MS-certified computer guru working checkout at 7-11.)
> Thanks to creative spinning by the govt, the economy looks
> pretty rosy.

If you've exhasted your unemployment benifits, and still haven't found a job, you are obviously too picky. Or, if you are MS-certified and working the counter at 7-11, you are probably not good enough to have a job. I'm MS certified since 1999, but I had 6 years practical experience prior to that.

>
> Or consider that our kids and grandkids will be the ones
> stuck with the $188 BILLION tab for this "war." That hurts
> THEIR economy, not ours, right? Why even worry?

I don't have kids, and won't have grandkids (what with no having any kids), so it'll be up to you to supply the offspring to repay that debt. As a true American who thinks only of the future of this country, I'm sure you will step up and do your part...

> Just in my little circle of, say, 300 friends,
> acquaintances, email buddies, extended family and the like,
> I know of only ONE who is still making what he made in 2000,
> and is still working for the same company in the same
> position. And silly him, he's been waiting for a promotion
> and a raise for five years now.

Hmm... 300 people... out of 300 MILLION people... yeah, you've got a real bead on the entire economy there... I don't see why we need Mr Greenspan at all... We'll just take your buddy list and ask'em "How you doon?"

I've been waiting a while for a raise... coupla years... but I'm also making 11% more than I was in 2000. I found a company that hires people... not certificates, not contract workers. It is ridiculous to blame the President or the current administration for a private companies hiring practices. I didn't blame Clinton when I was laid off in 1997. I have a large number of friends who lost their jobs in the tech bust of '99. They didn't blame Clinton. They blamed the companies that hired and fired.


> But I guess those few out there who haven't been affected by
> any economic woes over the last 5 years should have no
> reason whatsoever to worry about the rest of us, and to keep
> spouting off all the "merits" of their president and their
> congress, and continue to ignore facts and figures over spin
> and "perception management." The rest of us will just keep
> floundering at the bottom and put ALL the blame and
> responsibility on ourselves. Perhaps I could borrow those
> rose-colored glasses for a day so "I" wouldn't have any
> worries myself for a moment or two. BUT TURNING A BLIND EYE
> IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM DOESN'T MAKE THE PROBLEMS
> DISAPPEAR. Burying my head in the Bible doesn't, either.

Oh... OK... so, anyone who disagrees with you is a myopic bible thumper? Nice way to make friends... but you have 300 or so, so you don't need any more, right?

And if patriotism and faith are a BAD thing, then I'm obviously living in the wrong country.


>
> I can't wait until the proper historical perspective of
> these times can be told. I'll be the first to tell the
> neo-cons and the dittoheads, "I told you so."


I, too, await proper historical perspective, but for the mirror image of reasons. At least I don't have to insult those that disagree with me when I show them the error of their ways...<P ID="signature">______________
"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Edgar Allen Poe</P>

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

> What the unemployment numbers DON'T show are the one who
> have exhausted their unemployment benefits and still haven't
> found a job, plus the ones UNDERemployed (like the
> MS-certified computer guru working checkout at 7-11.)
> Thanks to creative spinning by the govt, the economy looks
> pretty rosy.
>
> Or consider that our kids and grandkids will be the ones
> stuck with the $188 BILLION tab for this "war." That hurts
> THEIR economy, not ours, right? Why even worry?
>
> Just in my little circle of, say, 300 friends,
> acquaintances, email buddies, extended family and the like,
> I know of only ONE who is still making what he made in 2000,
> and is still working for the same company in the same
> position. And silly him, he's been waiting for a promotion
> and a raise for five years now.
>
> But I guess those few out there who haven't been affected by
> any economic woes over the last 5 years should have no
> reason whatsoever to worry about the rest of us, and to keep
> spouting off all the "merits" of their president and their
> congress, and continue to ignore facts and figures over spin
> and "perception management." The rest of us will just keep
> floundering at the bottom and put ALL the blame and
> responsibility on ourselves. Perhaps I could borrow those
> rose-colored glasses for a day so "I" wouldn't have any
> worries myself for a moment or two. BUT TURNING A BLIND EYE
> IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM DOESN'T MAKE THE PROBLEMS
> DISAPPEAR. Burying my head in the Bible doesn't, either.
>
> I can't wait until the proper historical perspective of
> these times can be told. I'll be the first to tell the
> neo-cons and the dittoheads, "I told you so."


Alice we live on a spin doctor world in a playing with the numbers universe.
Most fridays economic news is given out by the Government. Rule of thumb: Whatever the current Gov. says, go at least 90 degrees in opposition and you will be far closer to the facts than they are distributing. If the economy is so wonderful why have Delta,and Northwest airlines filed for bankruptcy? Why are job layoffs being announced every week from some large company? Adjustments? Bad management over all? No doubt,but to say the economy is in good shape when it is in constant flux,is a sign of denial. 8.50 an hour would have been a gold mine of sorts 10 years ago,but now gas purchases are almost a luxury item, and other luxury items like going to an amusement park,a restaurant,the annual family vacation become a casualties. The set minimum wage is 5.20 an hour. You could live on that in Botswanna perhaps,maybe Mexico but not here.
Bad management is at fault and it all starts at the very top.

 

[Slambang]

> > What the unemployment numbers DON'T show are the one who
> > have exhausted their unemployment benefits and still
> haven't
> > found a job, plus the ones UNDERemployed (like the
> > MS-certified computer guru working checkout at 7-11.)
> > Thanks to creative spinning by the govt, the economy looks
>
> > pretty rosy.
>
> If you've exhasted your unemployment benifits, and still
> haven't found a job, you are obviously too picky. Or, if
> you are MS-certified and working the counter at 7-11, you
> are probably not good enough to have a job. I'm MS
> certified since 1999, but I had 6 years practical experience
> prior to that.
>
> >
> > Or consider that our kids and grandkids will be the ones
> > stuck with the $188 BILLION tab for this "war." That
> hurts
> > THEIR economy, not ours, right? Why even worry?
>
> I don't have kids, and won't have grandkids (what with no
> having any kids), so it'll be up to you to supply the
> offspring to repay that debt. As a true American who thinks
> only of the future of this country, I'm sure you will step
> up and do your part...
>
> > Just in my little circle of, say, 300 friends,
> > acquaintances, email buddies, extended family and the
> like,
> > I know of only ONE who is still making what he made in
> 2000,
> > and is still working for the same company in the same
> > position. And silly him, he's been waiting for a
> promotion
> > and a raise for five years now.
>
> Hmm... 300 people... out of 300 MILLION people... yeah,
> you've got a real bead on the entire economy there... I
> don't see why we need Mr Greenspan at all... We'll just
> take your buddy list and ask'em "How you doon?"
>
> I've been waiting a while for a raise... coupla years...
> but I'm also making 11% more than I was in 2000. I found a
> company that hires people... not certificates, not contract
> workers. It is ridiculous to blame the President or the
> current administration for a private companies hiring
> practices. I didn't blame Clinton when I was laid off in
> 1997. I have a large number of friends who lost their jobs
> in the tech bust of '99. They didn't blame Clinton. They
> blamed the companies that hired and fired.
>
>
> > But I guess those few out there who haven't been affected
> by
> > any economic woes over the last 5 years should have no
> > reason whatsoever to worry about the rest of us, and to
> keep
> > spouting off all the "merits" of their president and their
>
> > congress, and continue to ignore facts and figures over
> spin
> > and "perception management." The rest of us will just
> keep
> > floundering at the bottom and put ALL the blame and
> > responsibility on ourselves. Perhaps I could borrow those
>
> > rose-colored glasses for a day so "I" wouldn't have any
> > worries myself for a moment or two. BUT TURNING A BLIND
> EYE
> > IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM DOESN'T MAKE THE PROBLEMS
> > DISAPPEAR. Burying my head in the Bible doesn't, either.
>
> Oh... OK... so, anyone who disagrees with you is a myopic
> bible thumper? Nice way to make friends... but you have
> 300 or so, so you don't need any more, right?
>
> And if patriotism and faith are a BAD thing, then I'm
> obviously living in the wrong country.
>
>
> >
> > I can't wait until the proper historical perspective of
> > these times can be told. I'll be the first to tell the
> > neo-cons and the dittoheads, "I told you so."
>
>
> I, too, await proper historical perspective, but for the
> mirror image of reasons. At least I don't have to insult
> those that disagree with me when I show them the error of
> their ways...
>
Bingo, I was one of those who had to "suck it up" and went back to college while working a $7/hr job down in waco. I will tell ya right now it humbles you and makes ya thankful for what you have. If I didnt take that path in my life, I would not have ended up with my current employer who values soft skills and real working knowledge over "paper certs". Nothing wrong with certs, its how you use them is what matters.

 

[rev_darkness]

Re: My point exactly...

> Bingo, I was one of those who had to "suck it up" and went
> back to college while working a $7/hr job down in waco. I
> will tell ya right now it humbles you and makes ya thankful
> for what you have. If I didnt take that path in my life, I
> would not have ended up with my current employer who values
> soft skills and real working knowledge over "paper certs".
> Nothing wrong with certs, its how you use them is what
> matters.
>


Slam, I'm glad you are doing fine. Thank you for taking responsibility for your own future.<P ID="signature">______________
"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Edgar Allen Poe</P>

 

[Radio6]

>
> If you've exhasted your unemployment benifits, and still
> haven't found a job, you are obviously too picky.

wrong.

Or, if
> you are MS-certified and working the counter at 7-11, you
> are probably not good enough to have a job. I'm MS
> certified since 1999, but I had 6 years practical experience
> prior to that.
>


good for you. and your experience is more relevant than the 300 people you make fun of later in your post how?



>
> Hmm... 300 people... out of 300 MILLION people... yeah,
> you've got a real bead on the entire economy there... I
> don't see why we need Mr Greenspan at all... We'll just
> take your buddy list and ask'em "How you doon?"

ahh, there it is. nothing like consistency.





>
>
> I, too, await proper historical perspective, but for the
> mirror image of reasons. At least I don't have to insult
> those that disagree with me when I show them the error of
> their ways...
>


i think you just did. game over.

 

[Radio6]

> > Actually the economy is fine but there are a ton of penny
> > pinching asswipes at the top of the heap who are hording
> the
> > cash flow. The economy is growing at a 3-4% clip which is
>
> > damn good but these tight-fisted corporate jerkoffs aren't
>
> > reinvesting their profits. Instead they're looking to
> > further rape the American worker by getting free trade
> deals
> > like CAFTA ratified. Apparently the Mexican workers are
> > making too much, they need to relocate jobs to Nicaragua
> > now.
> >
> > Even though the economy is plugging along well, median
> > American income is unchanged over the last four years.
> > Prices have gone up during the same period meaning the
> > number of people living in poverty has also gone up.
> >
> > I heard one caller on Knapp's show use totally bogus
> > statistics to try to defend Bush's economic policies. He
> > said in 1996 the poverty rate was 13.6% and in 2004 it was
>
> > 11.7% so in his words "Bush is doing something right for
> the
> > poor." Wrong answer. Between 1996 and 2000 the poverty
> > rate decreased from 13.6%-11.2%. The poverty rate has
>
> Several good points. One politcal party wants to cut
> taxes,and of course its good Pr for the public. Some of the
> public fail to realize however that when a tax cut hits,
> services are cut back like police, fire,city maintainence
> projects,etc. How often have you seen taxes cut but prices
> rise twice the amount of the cut.? Quite often,and the
> majority of the profits made are not reinvested into a
> company creating more jobs. It's pocketed by the ceos, etc.
> If a company doesn't meet its year end profit goal,jobs are
> cut in January. Some of the profit goals are
> exagerated,rather than realistic in keeping a company
> profitable and viable. Cc has done that all too often in the
> last 7 years. The unemployment rolls have been seriously
> manipulated since 1983 when the Reagan administration
> decided to add the figure of active duty military personel
> to the figures so it would relect a lower number of claims.
> Every President has used that method since and if your
> unemployment is exhausted you no longer are counted. So
> whatever the unemployment figure is add about 2-3% more so
> it would be closer in reflecting a more relaistic figure.
> The economy is lousy,the job market for a liveable wage is
> apalling.
>
>
> >
>



Exactly. And I challenge anyone who has the gall to tell someone with at least a Bachelor's if not a Master's that $7/hr is fine and they should just suck it up to go work for a job paying $7/hr themselves for a year. See how it suits ya, then report back. I'll be waiting.

 

[AliceTheCook]

I see you're at the top of your game still.

You wouldn't have to look any further than your own friend, Doc, for a sad situation where someone had to leave the market entirely to find any decent position. Or would you get a cheap thrill seeing him make sandwiches at a local Subway? Sure, we all have to be resilient and do what's necessary to survive, but we're not talking about a guy who's single here, this is a sad case of having to uproot family, wives, ex-wives (!), etc.

So my 300 people don't count. Guess you don't believe in surveys, which typically take opinions of 800 to 1,000 people to judge, say, the president's 39% approval rating. Mine are from all ages, sexes, all walks of life and different geographies. Considering that much of the media is scared of Bush and will have access to the White House barred, I pull from many sources to formulate an opinion; my little group is just one. And yeah, my opinions may not match what my parents taught me, or what my pastor says, or what spin the government puts on something.

I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my "bible thumping" stereotype, but, being a moderate/liberal/radical/independent/whatever, I'm very used to being lumped into a stereotypical category myself. I endure constant insults to my beliefs daily, and I shouldn't feel the desire to lash out or fight back?

Patriotism and faith are fine principles, when both are left up to the individual to express and embrace, free of the cheapening of spinmasters who try to weave them together with political issues. Sure, it's up to each person to decide his/her reaction or response to influence, and I assume you're intelligent enough to see beyond that, but I pity the people in this country that let the media mold their opinions for them. Whether it's due to stupidity, laziness or ignorance, there are plenty of uninformed or misinformed people casting ballots for things they know nothing about. And remember the brouhaha back in 2000 when the networks announced results before the polls closed in California, that Gore had won Florida--the repugs went crazy over it, and the reason given was that people on the Left Coast could be influenced to "vote for a winner." Vote for a winner??? Are there people dumb enough to do something like that? To put personal convictions aside just to say, "Yeah, I voted for ______." I guess there are. THAT'S the kind of thing I'm talking about.

This is unresolvable. I can appreciate that you care enough to have an opinion, and that the sun has shone brightly upon you. All I ask of ANYONE is that they not marry any certain belief in anything, and that frequent re-evaluation of one's beliefs is necessary and helps one to learn and grow. Believing in something and having no clue why is a tragedy to me. Not being interested enough in how one's government is run is more UN-American to me than anything else.


> > What the unemployment numbers DON'T show are the one who
> > have exhausted their unemployment benefits and still
> haven't
> > found a job, plus the ones UNDERemployed (like the
> > MS-certified computer guru working checkout at 7-11.)
> > Thanks to creative spinning by the govt, the economy looks
>
> > pretty rosy.
>
> If you've exhasted your unemployment benifits, and still
> haven't found a job, you are obviously too picky. Or, if
> you are MS-certified and working the counter at 7-11, you
> are probably not good enough to have a job. I'm MS
> certified since 1999, but I had 6 years practical experience
> prior to that.
>
> >
> > Or consider that our kids and grandkids will be the ones
> > stuck with the $188 BILLION tab for this "war." That
> hurts
> > THEIR economy, not ours, right? Why even worry?
>
> I don't have kids, and won't have grandkids (what with no
> having any kids), so it'll be up to you to supply the
> offspring to repay that debt. As a true American who thinks
> only of the future of this country, I'm sure you will step
> up and do your part...
>
> > Just in my little circle of, say, 300 friends,
> > acquaintances, email buddies, extended family and the
> like,
> > I know of only ONE who is still making what he made in
> 2000,
> > and is still working for the same company in the same
> > position. And silly him, he's been waiting for a
> promotion
> > and a raise for five years now.
>
> Hmm... 300 people... out of 300 MILLION people... yeah,
> you've got a real bead on the entire economy there... I
> don't see why we need Mr Greenspan at all... We'll just
> take your buddy list and ask'em "How you doon?"
>
> I've been waiting a while for a raise... coupla years...
> but I'm also making 11% more than I was in 2000. I found a
> company that hires people... not certificates, not contract
> workers. It is ridiculous to blame the President or the
> current administration for a private companies hiring
> practices. I didn't blame Clinton when I was laid off in
> 1997. I have a large number of friends who lost their jobs
> in the tech bust of '99. They didn't blame Clinton. They
> blamed the companies that hired and fired.
>
>
> > But I guess those few out there who haven't been affected
> by
> > any economic woes over the last 5 years should have no
> > reason whatsoever to worry about the rest of us, and to
> keep
> > spouting off all the "merits" of their president and their
>
> > congress, and continue to ignore facts and figures over
> spin
> > and "perception management." The rest of us will just
> keep
> > floundering at the bottom and put ALL the blame and
> > responsibility on ourselves. Perhaps I could borrow those
>
> > rose-colored glasses for a day so "I" wouldn't have any
> > worries myself for a moment or two. BUT TURNING A BLIND
> EYE
> > IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM DOESN'T MAKE THE PROBLEMS
> > DISAPPEAR. Burying my head in the Bible doesn't, either.
>
> Oh... OK... so, anyone who disagrees with you is a myopic
> bible thumper? Nice way to make friends... but you have
> 300 or so, so you don't need any more, right?
>
> And if patriotism and faith are a BAD thing, then I'm
> obviously living in the wrong country.
>
>
> >
> > I can't wait until the proper historical perspective of
> > these times can be told. I'll be the first to tell the
> > neo-cons and the dittoheads, "I told you so."
>
>
> I, too, await proper historical perspective, but for the
> mirror image of reasons. At least I don't have to insult
> those that disagree with me when I show them the error of
> their ways...
>

 

[rev_darkness]

> wrong.

Wow... that's uh... that's a great argument there... I'll shall counter by saying "nuh-uh!"


>
> good for you. and your experience is more relevant than the
> 300 people you make fun of later in your post how?
>

I never compared myself to the 300 people in question. You did that. Create conflict where there is none to distract from the actual argument: such is the socialist mantra.

Also, I did not insult the 300 people in question. I simply used the reference from Alice to try and point out that simply because she knows 299 people that are no better off, that is not a reflection of the entire country. In 1972, Katherine Graham of the Washington Post was quoted on television as saying (of Nixon), "He can't have won. No one I know voted for him." To assume that the people you know or the people I know are an accurate cross section of the American public is myopic.

I still challenge you to find an insult in anything I said.<P ID="signature">______________
"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Edgar Allen Poe</P>

 

[rev_darkness]

> I see you're at the top of your game still.

Thank you.

>
> You wouldn't have to look any further than your own friend,
> Doc, for a sad situation where someone had to leave the
> market entirely to find any decent position. Or would you
> get a cheap thrill seeing him make sandwiches at a local
> Subway? Sure, we all have to be resilient and do what's
> necessary to survive, but we're not talking about a guy
> who's single here, this is a sad case of having to uproot
> family, wives, ex-wives (!), etc.

You actually made my point there. Doc is an example of someone who had to suck it up and move to a different market where he has found extremely rewarding work that will not only pay his bills, but will advance his knowlege and experience. He is not sitting back, whining and moaning that the government is to blame for him losing his job, making little "gubment cheez" sammiches... He did something about it.

The goverment did not shut down 990. Bush didn't fire Doc. The economy is not to blame for his move to Arkansas.




> So my 300 people don't count.

I didn't say that they don't count. Of course they count... when YOU make YOUR opinion, those around you are an influence. However, they may not be representative of the entire country. Every survey ever published may or may not be representative of the entire country.

I once again quote Katherine Graham of the Washington Post who said in 1972 (of Nixon), "No one I know voted for him."

>
> I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my "bible thumping"
> stereotype, but, being a
> moderate/liberal/radical/independent/whatever, I'm very used
> to being lumped into a stereotypical category myself. I
> endure constant insults to my beliefs daily, and I shouldn't
> feel the desire to lash out or fight back?

I know nothing of your beliefs other than what you post here. I am sorry if I ever touched a nerve or made you think that I thought that your opinion is not valid. It is. And, as your points are some of the more articulate around here, your points are greatly appreciated.

That don't mean I gotta agree...

If there's someone who knows about having their beliefs attacked, it's me. You may email me off-board for more info if you like.


>
> Patriotism and faith are fine principles, when both are left
> up to the individual to express and embrace, free of the
> cheapening of spinmasters who try to weave them together
> with political issues. Sure, it's up to each person to
> decide his/her reaction or response to influence, and I
> assume you're intelligent enough to see beyond that, but I
> pity the people in this country that let the media mold
> their opinions for them. Whether it's due to stupidity,
> laziness or ignorance, there are plenty of uninformed or
> misinformed people casting ballots for things they know
> nothing about. And remember the brouhaha back in 2000 when
> the networks announced results before the polls closed in
> California, that Gore had won Florida--the repugs went crazy
> over it, and the reason given was that people on the Left
> Coast could be influenced to "vote for a winner." Vote for
> a winner??? Are there people dumb enough to do something
> like that? To put personal convictions aside just to say,
> "Yeah, I voted for ______." I guess there are. THAT'S the
> kind of thing I'm talking about.

I too fear that too many people in this country listen to the media/television/Hollywood. But we are being told on a daily basis that these people know more than we do, and that if we don't agree with them, we are stupid.

Yes, people as a whole are a stupid, fearful lot. For those "undecideds" out there, the decision for President could be made by the last billboard they see, or the soda can in their hand, or the quarter in their pocket. They could hear "Gore Won!" and think, "Well, if he won over there, he must be good..."

Insults and generalizations are not the way to resolve that, though. They are Replublicans, not repugs. If you don't want to be addressed as a "Liberal Pinko-Commie", then lets try to remain civil.


>
> This is unresolvable. I can appreciate that you care enough
> to have an opinion, and that the sun has shone brightly upon
> you. All I ask of ANYONE is that they not marry any certain
> belief in anything, and that frequent re-evaluation of one's
> beliefs is necessary and helps one to learn and grow.
> Believing in something and having no clue why is a tragedy
> to me. Not being interested enough in how one's government
> is run is more UN-American to me than anything else.

I agree with you on that. But I add that not knowing how the government is run and making assumptions as to how it SHOULD be run is far worse than not caring in the first place.

(Not to imply that this relates to you, Alice, but others around here should pay attention a little more)<P ID="signature">______________
"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Edgar Allen Poe</P>