i hate digital tv

[vchimpanzee]

TVNewsCheck's Harry Jessell wrote an excellent article about it, noting that when he was growing up, a local low VHF station would go away when his mother ran the vacuum cleaner.

Do you have a link? I'd like to add this information to Wikipedia.

 

[brian77]

Something your cable company doesn't want you to know: Do what I did. Pay for internet through your cable provider. Buy a splitter, connect one coax cable to your modem, the other to your TV. You'll get the basic channels (very basic). When I upgraded recently to an HDTV, I also received the digital sub-channels, plus a few more random ones like The Weather Channel and History (in SD).

One problem.

To combat the above (As well as for other reasons), most cable companies put the HD locals on Digital TV (Usually around Channel 650).  Therefore by doing the above, you will only get the SD versions of the locals and a select (VERY select) mix of Public Access, Government & regular cable channels (I think TBS is the only one you can get with a very basic subscription now).

So Trip's best bet would likely be to get satellite TV service instead IMO.

Cheers

I do have my HD locals with the above setup. I talked with an engineer friend of mine, I don't think this (HD on QAM tuner) is going away anytime soon.

 

[Kent]

With the advent of digital WBTV finally has a decent signal on my side of town! Their analog was the pits and probably is responsible for the success that cable enjoys here. Without an outdoor antenna I could barely see the old Channel 3. It looked like an out of market signal. My friend is a broadcast engineer and he said that Channel 3 is just not a good frequency and 3's in other markets had similar problems.

I know KYTV 3 in Springfield, MO received lots of complaints about people not being able to view it when it was in analog. It didn't seem to hurt them much, though, as they've always been the market leader. Of course, Springfield also has an unbelievable cable and satellite penetration. Given that KYTV has carried tons of local sports, including Drury and SMS/MSU, for most of the last 30 years, it's entirely possible difficulty in receiving the analog signal on 3 helped drive those high cable and satellite subscriber numbers. Schurz Communications paid north of $50 million to acquire it in the early to mid-80's. That was really an astronomical sum in those days, especially for a market in the 75-100 range.

By the way, KY-3 wasted no time in declaring it wanted to continue broadcasting digital on 44 after the transition.

 

[Tim L]

Those in extreme southern parts of the market might get RTV on rebroadcasters of WIVM/52 Canton, which itself will go digital soon on RF 39. IIRC, WIVM is planning some subchannels, but I don't remember what they are, and don't think those subchannels are on the digital rebroadcasters yet.

It's been announced through WIVM's Facebook Page that they are planning three subchannels for their digital stations, and theyre considering 3 of 4 choices..

Plus or Minus 60 audio channel-Religous channel from Denny and Marge Hazen..They have been trying for FM on 90.1 and 90.9 in Bolivar/Carrollton, Ohio and already have programming on the internet. My guess is that this will be the audio service..And will definetely be added..


Tuff-TV..Companion Channel to RTV
AMG-TV Movies, extreme sports aond some TV reruns..Not unlike Tuff TV
America One TV..

2 of these 3 will be added

 

[Word!]

Digital TV is like so many "new" "improved" things in life today-- mostly big words with weak performance.

My feelings exactly.
I CANNOT STAND digital broadcast tv. There is no more science, or fascination with DX... you CANNOT DX tv any longer. I didn't mind shadows. I didn't mind snow. Growing up my fascination, of course, was seeing where "20Vision" was from or watching WHAS-11 news in Chicago when WTTW signed off, or in 1990 catching a signal of KCNC Denver and then moving the antenna to another side of the tv and getting KTVX at the same time was EXCITING!

But speaking about local tv now, what I can't stand is that if you dont have a rooftop antenna, and the signal fades, the screen tiles and you lose audio.

Seriously makes me either want cable, which is too expensive, or just turn off the tv. And scanning for "signals" almost ALWAYS skips over channels like WBBM 2.... which makes a station cease to exist unless you had a channel list from TV guide. if you just moved to a new market you wouldn't know it even existed!

Just the other day my friend even told me they have no channels, I told him to re-scan for DTV, he said "ohhhhhh i didn't know!" The average person still doesn't "get it" with digital tv.

Just plain sux sux sux.

Is this an American thing only? Or are other countries doing the digital signals as well?? Im curious to know.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

It's been announced through WIVM's Facebook Page that they are planning three subchannels for their digital stations, and theyre considering 3 of 4 choices..

We've verified that WIVN-LD/29 is indeed on the air, with no subchannels. Maybe they'll add them when WIVM itself flash cuts on 52.

 

[cd637299]

Digital TV is like so many "new" "improved" things in life today-- mostly big words with weak performance.

Is this an American thing only? Or are other countries doing the digital signals as well?? Im curious to know.

Canada will go all-digital in either Aug 2011 or Aug 2012---I forget. Mexico will go all-digital in a matter of years, but I am not sure when. Many countries are already digital. HOWEVER! Just like many countries had different color systems (meaning that some countries' TV you would not be able to view with a US-made/designed TV), there are different digital systems. Too complicated to explain right now! The Canada & Mexico systems are compatible with the US'.

cd

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I THINK Canada is still this year, though the Canadian digital TV conversion seems to be very much a "I'll believe it when I see it" animal, particularly in the smaller markets. (For one, I have no idea when or if CBET/9 CBC Windsor will go digital.)

Canada is very much a cable/satellite dependent country.

There's at least one Mexican station in pre-transition digital...XETV/6 Tijuana, the San Diego market's CW affiliate (former Fox). I think there may be one or two others, mostly U.S.-targeting English language stations.

 

[cd637299]

There's at least one Mexican station in pre-transition digital...XETV/6 Tijuana, the San Diego market's CW affiliate (former Fox). I think there may be one or two others, mostly U.S.-targeting English language stations.

That reminds me....XHRIO ch 2 in Matamoros, Mexico (serving Brownsville TX and surrounding cities) is a Fox affiliate. Because their transmitter is in Mexico, they are not required to go digital-only (although they *are* available as a digital channel right now). I have seen it on DX from my home in Florida many times---in fact, often it kills chances of my seeing other ch 2's outside the US.

I wonder if the ratings are better for XHRIO than the others, due to analog availability.

cd

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

IIRC, isn't XETV still on analog 6?

XHRIO is not, as far as I can tell, transmitting its own digital signal...it's still riding on a subchannel of sister station KNVO.

I checked "About Fox 2" on XHRIO's website:

http://www.foxrio2.com/contact/about-xrio-2/

...but it appears to be a slightly edited version of its Wikipedia page! I love when stations do that...a local radio station around here did that, and I edited part of that Wikipedia page.

 

[w9wi]

I THINK Canada is still this year, though the Canadian digital TV conversion seems to be very much a "I'll believe it when I see it" animal, particularly in the smaller markets. (For one, I have no idea when or if CBET/9 CBC Windsor will go digital.)

For Canadian stations in "mandatory markets", the conversion date is this summer. "Mandatory markets" include:

- Cities of over 300,000 population
- Provincial & territorial capitals
- Markets with two or more local stations

IIRC Windsor is a mandatory market for reason #1.

The CBC, at least, does not feel it can meet this deadline. That said, applications for post-transition DTV facilities are being filed (and approved) at a rapid pace.

Most of them will NOT replicate the stations' analog coverage. They usually *claim* to replicate it, but I-C is using a pretty loose standard for that. (I might guess the "noise-limited" contour which in the U.S. is 41dBu UHF.)

Relay transmitters **are not required to convert at all**. Neither are stations in single-station markets. If CKX-TV still existed in Brandon, Manitoba it could continue to operate indefinitely in analog. The channel 2 Global transmitter that's still operating there has no mandatory conversion date. For reasons I haven't been able to figure out, stations in Quebec seem to be volunteering to convert their relay transmitters to digital -- that doesn't seem to be happening in the other 12 provinces/territories.

My guess is that most of the analog relay transmitters will continue to operate in analog until they suffer an expensive failure, at which point they will be shut down completely without bothering to convert to digital.

There's at least one Mexican station in pre-transition digital...XETV/6 Tijuana, the San Diego market's CW affiliate (former Fox). I think there may be one or two others, mostly U.S.-targeting English language stations.

There are DTV stations throughout Mexico, and the country has a DTV rollout plan, starting with the largest markets. The plan anticipates closing analog TV in Mexico by 2020. (my gut feeling is analog will be gone long before then)
_________________________________________________

you CANNOT DX tv any longer.

http://www.wtfda.info/forumdisplay.php?f=48

which lists DTV DX:
- Orlando=>Havana
- Vegas=>Shreveport
- Texas=>Kentucky
- Reynosa, Mexico (XERV DT 19)=>Louisiana
- Myrtle Beach=>Philadelphia

among many others. I've received south Mississippi here via tropo, and Nebraska & South Dakota on skip. (the latter while using a UHF antenna.......)

But speaking about local tv now, what I can't stand is that if you dont have a rooftop antenna, and the signal fades, the screen tiles and you lose audio.

My antenna is four feet off the ground & my local signals don't fade... my abovementioned DX was received on that antenna... no, I *don't* live on a mountain...

Is this an American thing only? Or are other countries doing the digital signals as well?? Im curious to know.

Most countries are converting to digital, though the technical system varies considerably from country to country.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

IIRC Windsor is a mandatory market for reason #1.

And #3, thanks to the continued presence of "A Windsor"...which wasn't a given in recent years.

The CBC, at least, does not feel it can meet this deadline. That said, applications for post-transition DTV facilities are being filed (and approved) at a rapid pace.

Thus, my doubt about CBET. And as you noted, their digital facilities won't match analog 9. I wonder how well the digital signal will get into Detroit, for all those "HNIC" fans...and will CBET indeed flash cut, whenever it happens, on 9?

There are DTV stations throughout Mexico, and the country has a DTV rollout plan, starting with the largest markets. The plan anticipates closing analog TV in Mexico by 2020. (my gut feeling is analog will be gone long before then)

Ah, OK, wasn't aware of the non-border situation.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Excellent article, from the CBC itself, on 12 of its markets not meeting the 2011 deadline for digital TV, including Windsor:

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/08/06/cbc-digital-television-transition.html

The public broadcaster said it will require 27 transmitters to make the switchover nationally, but only 15 of them will be active by Aug. 31, 2011, the deadline imposed for major markets by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission.

The remaining 12 will be active by Aug. 31, 2012, CBC/Radio-Canada said.

The Crown corporation has asked the CRTC for permission to continue broadcasting analog signals in those markets until the transmitters are built. The English markets are Yellowknife, Regina, Winnipeg, Windsor, Saint John/Fredericton, Charlottetown, Halifax and St. John's, while the French markets are Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina and Winnipeg.

 

[cd637299]

The whole Canada thing is confusing....A Channel in Barrie ON on ch 3 is located in a city that is likely < 300,000, but, it acts as a Toronto station. But I suppose they will use Barrie as a loophole?

As to XHRIO, yes they are a sub of KNVO, which is interesting: I would think that because of that, they have to follow guidelines of *both* the FCC *and* the SCT (Mexico's governing body). Their logo during promos and such shows "XRIO", but their top-of-hour ID shows "XHRIO", practically the same logo.

cd

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

"A Windsor" (CHWI) has moved its Windsor analog transmitter from 60 to 26.

http://atv.ca/london/promo/windsorchange/index.html

They apparently also want to go digital on 26, whenever that happens. The Wheatley transmitter is still on 16.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

With the advent of digital WBTV finally has a decent signal on my side of town! Their analog was the pits and probably is responsible for the success that cable enjoys here. Without an outdoor antenna I could barely see the old Channel 3. It looked like an out of market signal. My friend is a broadcast engineer and he said that Channel 3 is just not a good frequency and 3's in other markets had similar problems.

I know KYTV 3 in Springfield, MO received lots of complaints about people not being able to view it when it was in analog. It didn't seem to hurt them much, though, as they've always been the market leader. Of course, Springfield also has an unbelievable cable and satellite penetration. Given that KYTV has carried tons of local sports, including Drury and SMS/MSU, for most of the last 30 years, it's entirely possible difficulty in receiving the analog signal on 3 helped drive those high cable and satellite subscriber numbers. Schurz Communications paid north of $50 million to acquire it in the early to mid-80's. That was really an astronomical sum in those days, especially for a market in the 75-100 range.

By the way, KY-3 wasted no time in declaring it wanted to continue broadcasting digital on 44 after the transition.

So is the digital 44 performing better than analog 3? Digital 23 sure does lots better than analog 3 where I live.

By the way I saw the WCNC digital channel 22 transmitter. It's tiny compared to their analog 36 monster! The analog transmitter wasn't very old either.

 

[KyDXIn]

Digital TV is like so many "new" "improved" things in life today-- mostly big words with weak performance.

My feelings exactly.
I CANNOT STAND digital broadcast tv. There is no more science, or fascination with DX... you CANNOT DX tv any longer. I didn't mind shadows. I didn't mind snow. Growing up my fascination, of course, was seeing where "20Vision" was from or watching WHAS-11 news in Chicago when WTTW signed off, or in 1990 catching a signal of KCNC Denver and then moving the antenna to another side of the tv and getting KTVX at the same time was EXCITING!

Wow! I can't believe WHAS made it all the way into Chicago. This morning I'm tryiing to watch Regis and having no luck with it, and I'm 15 miles from the transmitter!

WHAS was a great station until they hired a manager who keeps downsizing veteran employees in favor of less expensive (and knowledgable) workers. I used to loyally watch their station until the manager told the chief meterologist to take less money or hit the road. He is now spokesman for Humana insurance. It is sad cause he was a good meterologist and had good rapport with the community. The manager has gone on to do the same thing to the morning weather guy too. I guess when Regis retires, I will not be watching WHAS anymore.

 

[landtuna]

This was to be the year I finally replaced by 45" rear projection TV and went HDTV with a 65" plasma. Due to the many problems with DTV I decided not to pull the trigger yet. And it may never happen.

With almost the sole exception of live sports there is an awful paucity of programming OTA. I see no point in buying a $2,000 wonder of technology to watch the very few shows worth watching. And even less reason to invest when the means to deliver those few shows is akin to watching an old analog system during a thunderstorm.

What about cable/sat you say? This is admittedly a personal choice. I had cable and sat for years before cutting the cord two years ago. The cost was not worth the few programs I watched. I may be in the minority but I hear more and more people saying the same thing now.

Then there is the ongoing debate about whether OTA will even exist in a few years. Personally, I believe it will but if the programming continues to deteriorate at the present rate it won't matter.

But wait, you say, what about DVD's?

Well, yes, those are definitely worth the price of admission - but I already have an extensive library of SD DVD's and am not about to replace them with Blu-ray versions (even if they were available). So if I ever do upgrade to HDTV I'll just buy an upconverting DVD player that should do me forever. Hopefully in my old age my eyesight will still be able to tell the difference. ;D

 

[Kent]

So is the digital 44 performing better than analog 3? Digital 23 sure does lots better than analog 3 where I live.

It seems to be. A friend of mine doesn't subscribe to locals on his satellite package and has no trouble watching it over the air when it used to be unwatchable on 3. Now, he complains he has more trouble getting KOLR, which is on DT-10, though he has been able to get it, too, now that he's moved. He's about a mile away from where he used to be.

 

[Word!]

Wow a few things:

DX so does this mean instead of doing a auto-scan, just have each channel manually "open" to a signal? That can make sense to me to be able to just channel flip. Still, I simply miss analog dx, looking thru the static.

WHAS: Must been a late night news rebroadcast or something once WTTW signed off, because I remember seeing a former WFLD Fox 32 news reporter, i think his name was Chris Long, was doing the shift that night on WHAS. I remember the logo 11 with the loop around the top! That was so exciting for me but not surprising as many times I'd get WXIN Fox 59 as well as other stations, I think I'll dig up my archives in storage from the late 80s early 90s and post my DX log.

Sounda like the Canadian switch is confusing. Probably would go alot smoother if it was just simply mandated at a date.

As far as a flat-screen digital tv, been overall un interested. Lucky, my first digital tv I got from my nephew when he moved, he gave me his SDTV, picture tube digital which works fine, along with the 2 my dad left me when he passed. After seeing many flat screens start to have spots in them, or black lines, or what looks like a "flood water mark on one side" and other countless problems with the flat screens, I'm very fine with a picture tube DTV.

For some reason, I still have my 1977 sears solid state black n white in storage, just by some miracle analog would ever come back. Thats overall the main tv i always did skip on, i got it out the garbage from my neighbor when i was 11! Still works. <3