I hate K-Love, and other Low power religios stations.

[ChiefEngineer]

The issue surrounds the population explosion of translators mostly importing a national format. Yes it is worth a thread.
[/quote]

The problem with the translator explosion is that there are those who applied JUST to sell translators later. CSN or Friends of Christian Radio. Some they never intended to build. some of the CP's not built were just not built and lost to all.

And national programming relayed everywhere does have it's limits.

The group I work with has a regional approach. still there are applications in Indiana IL and KY. Each are tied to a regional station and are not just relaying one feed.

I think the comment just because an allocation is available doesn't mean it should be built does carry some weight.

Each "format" is in the eye of the beholder though....

 

[jo-nathan]

I don't think you so much have a problem with translators, clubber, it's the broadcasters themselves (maybe moreso their message and programming). If you share different faith views than others then that's your choice. Or maybe you're upset that they don't place dance. Regardless they have as much first amendment right as you do whether you like it or not. If they're licensed by the FCC to broadcast and they're obeying the technical rules then they're legal. Calling them "pirates" is not only inaccurate but it'd disrespectful. Can I call WIBC a pirate just because they broadcast on a frequency that another far away stations that I like(d) happens to be on too? No. So you can't either.

 

[justalurker]

The problem with the translator explosion is that there are those who applied JUST to sell translators later. CSN or Friends of Christian Radio. Some they never intended to build. some of the CP's not built were just not built and lost to all.

Those are two bad examples for making your point. Radio Assist / Edgewater Broadcasting are the big guys that applied to sell ... THOUSANDS of applications nationwide including multiple requests in the same towns. CSN (like EMF/KLove) did not apply for the licenses with the intent of selling. CSN and EMF want their stations on the air with their signals.

Friends of Christian Radio? I wouldn't put them in the major filer's list and certainly not on the "applied to sell" list. There are those who filed a lot more applications in Indiana than Friends (with the apparent intent of simply blocking other applicants). And if you're looking for a regional operator, Friends of Christian Radio meets that definition.

 

[AugC]

i say it's time to change the law....then it will be illegal....translators serve NO purpose...sorry they don't!

 

[jegrant]

One problem I have with Friends of Christian Radio is that their translators generally relay a for-profit station outside of its protected contours. This loophole allows WFRN/WFRR/WFRI to have translators in places that would not be allowed if the translators were owned by the licensee of the full power stations.

Another problem is their claim that (apparently) every single area they have placed a translator in, or want to place a translator in, is underserved, or completely unserved, by "full family" Christian Radio. Many of their applications for WFRR translators were in populated areas of Indianapolis that receive a good signal from WQME and K-Love. Granted, I think they eventually did give WQME one of their translators, but I'm still not convinced that such an aggressive approach is warranted. If Friends' mission was truly only to the underserved areas, then I would have expected to see fewer applications overall, and fewer of them in well-served population centers.

 

[skippertthomas]

...I just thought of a good 'steward' of the air in how "Thy Word" network covers our Evansville-Owensboro/Tri-State area... They have their flagship at 101.5 (Fort Branch-Evansville) and requested many years back to have the license declared as 'Non-Com', which the FCC did.. Then they had windows to apply for two more licensed stations.. One to the north-norteast to cover that part of the ADI (88.7 licensed to Loogootee)..ie..Vincennes to Washington to Jasper...Then they put on a licensed facility to the west at 91.7 (Albion-Mt.Carmel)..ie..Carmi, Fairfield, Flora, Olney, Lawrenceville, Mt. Carmel and the Illinois side of Vincennes and Princeton.. They did it over time and with care.. They went on with their ONLY translator at 106.5 in Owensboro and with the exception of some loss in soutwest Henderson County, KY and Union County, KY (due to the new 101.3 in Morganfield), they've been able, in time, to cover about 80% or better of the TV Market Footprint of our ADI.. Not, 80 ba-zillion translators in or out of the general area... Floyd Turner is a solid engineer and great General Manager and takes his time to do it right, or not do it at all..

 

[justalurker]

One problem I have with Friends of Christian Radio is that their translators generally relay a for-profit station outside of its protected contours. This loophole allows WFRN/WFRR/WFRI to have translators in places that would not be allowed if the translators were owned by the licensee of the full power stations.

The loophole is that non-profits could place translators anywhere they wanted to, and in the non-comm band feed them via satellite or any other way an owner wanted. That's the national translator problem. Friends has to live on donations specifically for their translators. Unlike the non-comms they can't take money from the main signal and spend it on the translators. This puts them at a major disadvantage to a translator that doesn't have to pay it's own way. National non-comm translator networks don't have that problem.

The biggest problem with the "protected contours" is that the main station may have a population center right on the edge ... or where people can hear the signal in their car but not in their homes. A translator serves existing listeners who need a better signal ... but because of the "protected contour" someone else has to own it.

If you can get rid of that "loophole" and allow commercial stations the same leeway in owning translators on the edge of their protected contours I'll be happy ... until then, it is advantage KLove - who gets the benefit of taking over commercial properties, turning them non-comm and owning the translators repeating those properties. All while operating their "main studio" out of California!

Yeah, supporting KLove makes more sense than an in state network. :

Another problem is their claim that (apparently) every single area they have placed a translator in, or want to place a translator in, is underserved, or completely unserved, by "full family" Christian Radio. Many of their applications for WFRR translators were in populated areas of Indianapolis that receive a good signal from WQME and K-Love. Granted, I think they eventually did give WQME one of their translators, but I'm still not convinced that such an aggressive approach is warranted. If Friends' mission was truly only to the underserved areas, then I would have expected to see fewer applications overall, and fewer of them in well-served population centers.

K-Love is reasonably new in Indiana. The presence they have today was not around five years ago when the last round of translator applications were accepted. They have bought CPs and stations (and year 2003 translators like the ones you're complaining about) to get to where they are today.

I wonder about the Indianapolis area applications myself ... but they were made at a time when Indy was losing (or had just lost - the timing is fuzzy) it's last Christian radio station. At the time there was a need.

 

[jegrant]

I won't deny, much has changed since some of those applications were filed.

However - doesn't WFRN occasionally hold on air fundraisers for the "Friends" group? I thought they used to, at least. I know they have at least given them website links in the past.

I also agree that translator rules must be reformed. Let's put noncom & commercial on equal status, and local origination & national on (at least) equal status.

Why is it technically more acceptable, according to the rules, for a noncom from the West Coast to place a translator in Indiana, than it would be for a local businessman to place an LPFM or Class A?

(FWIW, while I realize it will take an act of Congress, something has got to be done about the commercial restrictions on LPFM, or on a potential LPAM service. If such stations are ever going to be more than volunteer run jukeboxes, or glorified satellators, they must be able to access local advertising dollars to support local programming. Perhaps restrict national advertising to a maximum of 1 minute per hour, and total advertising to 6 minutes per hour, and allow a maximum of 7 hours per week of "block time" sales, with block time being available only to nonprofit organizations (i.e. no infomercials).

 

[techie2]

Right now there is no incentive for a local operator to try to place a Class A or other new allotment. You get the new allotment approved, then you get the privilege of having the new frequency go up for auction and being outbid for it by the big corporate operators.

I like your ideas for LPFM.

 

[justalurker]

I won't deny, much has changed since some of those applications were filed.

However - doesn't WFRN occasionally hold on air fundraisers for the "Friends" group? I thought they used to, at least. I know they have at least given them website links in the past.

WFRN runs the occasional fundraiser for a lot of different ministries ... Compassion International, Cross International ... they have also done other support drives for Shoes for Orphan Souls and Angel Tree (Prison Fellowship). Like most commercial stations if you buy the time they'll let you on the air. Friends is closer to home since they do primarily rebroadcast WFRN ... but they have to pay their own fundraising expenses just like anyone else.

(Said with apologies to the naive that don't understand how commercial radio works. Sometimes it can be quite mercenary. There are "dollar a holler" stations that live off of the program time they sell, regardless of content. Some stations are more like religious themed infomercial radio channels. But that's not really the topic of this thread.)

I'd like to see a reorganization of the LPFM and translator rules. So often the proposals seem to be love one and hate the other. There would be a valuable place for a hybrid service where locals could run their LPFMs with commercials and feed from a bird (like a full power station) or a full power station (like a translator) when there isn't local content.

The huge difference between an LPFM that can't play commercials and must have local content and a translator that cannot have local content (other than a 30 second acknoledgement/solicitation of support) is too wide. Imagine a 250w translator carrying a quality regional network cutting away for their local programming commitment and providing local morning shows or sports or whatever a LP would want to cover. Imagine a 250w LPFM.

 

[kb9wsl]

K-Love stations in Rochester and Plymouth,IN now have CP's to increase power from 250 and 400 watts respectively to class B-1 if I remember correctly. Maybe this is the start of a trend to go high power and maybe drop some of their lower power offerings in Indiana. I just read an article in Radio World this week..(9-3-09) about the predicted demise of a lot of small market low power AM Stations if they cannot get moved to the FM band. It appears to me if AM's get to go to FM via translators...the FM band will soon turn into what the AM band is now....a land of constant interference. I listen to AM in my van...and I can tell you where all of the power line problems are in my town. If the electric utilities would do a better job of keeping their system maintained interference levels on AM would decrease a fair amount.

 

[radiorob2.0]

Though technically the power companies are suppose to control emissions, the broadcasters are responsible to tell the power companies about the problem. However, the situation in many cities was neglected for so many years repair is cost prohibitive.

Where I live is an example. Neither AM did much to notify the municipal utility about the growth of noise from bad insulators. Today, the local AM's must fight the electrical noise throughout town as well as the length of a downtown thoroughfare. Once the problem was out of hand the AM's approached the utility screaming "Part 15" and "you have to fix it". The municipal utility told the radio stations they could go to the FCC. However, the repair work would be an extensive cost and the only way to overcome the expense would be a rate increase. The municipal utility made it clear they would let their customers know why their rates are going up. Do I blame the utility company? No. The radio stations should have been on top of this from the first buzz on the AM band.

 

[kd8hho]

ban ALL translators. problem solved.

FM is turning into AM and with the translator prob FM will end up like Shortwave (wall to wall bible bangers)

 

[BobOnTheJob]

ban ALL translators. problem solved.

FM is turning into AM and with the translator prob FM will end up like Shortwave (wall to wall bible bangers)

I'm not prone to "Hate" anything but it's especially hard to hate something with "Love" in the title. If I had to pick something to hate, it would be the stations that play the rap music that encourages violence & degrades women.

 

[bigtime]

Latest research shows a decline in the popularity of hip-hop/rap music. Teens are now moving more toward pop and rock again.

 

[KyDXIn]

They are hogging all the good DX and part 15 Legal Radio frequincies .

You tell 'em, Clubber. I couldn't agree more.

DITTO!

 

[KyDXIn]

ban ALL translators. problem solved.

FM is turning into AM and with the translator prob FM will end up like Shortwave (wall to wall bible bangers)

I'm not prone to "Hate" anything but it's especially hard to hate something with "Love" in the title. If I had to pick something to hate, it would be the stations that play the rap music that encourages violence & degrades women.

I HATE all POLKA music-- and you see how many of them are left... now... HAHAHAHAH!!!! [evil laugh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrLJAoua0AI

 

[KyDXIn]

ban ALL translators. problem solved.

FM is turning into AM and with the translator prob FM will end up like Shortwave (wall to wall bible bangers)

I'm not prone to "Hate" anything but it's especially hard to hate something with "Love" in the title. If I had to pick something to hate, it would be the stations that play the rap music that encourages violence & degrades women.

I HATE all POLKA music-- and you see how many of them are left... now... HAHAHAHAH!!!! [evil laugh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrLJAoua0AI

Here's even more proof of the subversive nature of POLKA and CHAMPAGNE music!

[/quote]

See we have to put an end to this EVIL "MUSIC" or what will happen to the children... Don't believe me? See for yourself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3ecDYxOkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i48BP1PUoFI&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFmSv2WFDrs&feature=related (Isn't that Ozzy Osborne???)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfaU...96C1CB19A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=4 (ANYTHING GOES?!!?)