I hate to even mention this...

[Buckethead]

David, the "Better" format on 103.1 with the higher ratings is selling and cashflowing far LESS the the BAD format that Indie was.
Entravision is regretting the move. The lost a few million a year on the deal.

 

[musicfan101]

My understanding is when KLSX origianally flipped to hot talk, it was patterned after the very successfull WTKS-FM "Real Radio 104.1" Orlando, Florida. KLSX even hired a former WTKS program director as KLSX's initial hot talk PD, calling KLSX "Real Radio 97.1". To this day WTKS-FM remains a viable hot talk FM in Orlando. The format has failed in other markets, but for some reason, after 16-years on-air, the FM Hot Talk format does quite well in Orlando and is programmed mostly "in-house."

It's not really "some" reason, I'm sure its many. First, most of the Hot Talk formats that flipped had nothing but infomercials on the weekend. Real Radio 104.1 plays targeted music on the weekend. So they have seven days of programming instead of five that other stations had. Probably better not to chase your audience away. I'm sure WTKS played fewer commercials than KLSX as well (there could be anywhere between 16-20 minutes an hour on KLSX). WTKS developed good local shows like the Monsters and the Philips Phile as well. Yes, WTKS had Stern, but five years after Stern was pulled off, the station still seems to be doing well. Had more Hot Talk stations modeled WTKS and not KLSX, the format may have worked a lot better.

With the exception of playing music on the weekends, KLSX sort of did the same thing. They built and developed shows on a local level, and commercials were always shortened. I'm guessing with the WTKS hosts, they are being paid far less?

I don't see why KLSX would play music during the weekends? Those informercials brought in money...

 

[radiojomo]

David, the "Better" format on 103.1 with the higher ratings is selling and cashflowing far LESS the the BAD format that Indie was.
Entravision is regretting the move. The lost a few million a year on the deal.

Entravision would have probably lost some prime advertisers in this fiscal year. While I loved the station and even debated for the station's return in one of my first posts on this board (I didn't know what I was dealing with when I debated David E about this), the economy would have impeded the station tremendously. There would have been less shows, less DJs and a more research based playlist. (Although I personally didn't mind the "KROQ Jr." Indie 103.1)

 

[davideduardo]

David, the "Better" format on 103.1 with the higher ratings is selling and cashflowing far LESS the the BAD format that Indie was.
Entravision is regretting the move. The lost a few million a year on the deal.

The current format is in the high 1's in the target 18-49 demo, and packages well with the other two properties in the cluster. It's creating a better revenue share for Entravision in the market, even thought the market is off about 30% compared to 2007.

The revenue had been lost before the format change due to the ending of the JSA and the loss of key management... '08 was about 30% lower than '07, and most of that was station related, not the economy.

The new format costs near nothing to do, and it is also put on several other Entravision properties, further amortizing the low, low costs.

 

[jmtillery]

My understanding is when KLSX origianally flipped to hot talk, it was patterned after the very successfull WTKS-FM "Real Radio 104.1" Orlando, Florida. KLSX even hired a former WTKS program director as KLSX's initial hot talk PD, calling KLSX "Real Radio 97.1". To this day WTKS-FM remains a viable hot talk FM in Orlando. The format has failed in other markets, but for some reason, after 16-years on-air, the FM Hot Talk format does quite well in Orlando and is programmed mostly "in-house."

It's not really "some" reason, I'm sure its many. First, most of the Hot Talk formats that flipped had nothing but infomercials on the weekend. Real Radio 104.1 plays targeted music on the weekend. So they have seven days of programming instead of five that other stations had. Probably better not to chase your audience away. I'm sure WTKS played fewer commercials than KLSX as well (there could be anywhere between 16-20 minutes an hour on KLSX). WTKS developed good local shows like the Monsters and the Philips Phile as well. Yes, WTKS had Stern, but five years after Stern was pulled off, the station still seems to be doing well. Had more Hot Talk stations modeled WTKS and not KLSX, the format may have worked a lot better.

With the exception of playing music on the weekends, KLSX sort of did the same thing. They built and developed shows on a local level, and commercials were always shortened. I'm guessing with the WTKS hosts, they are being paid far less?

I don't see why KLSX would play music during the weekends? Those informercials brought in money...

WTKS went on the air as Real Radio in 1993 and was on the cutting edge of the Hot Talk FM format. In the beginning everything WTKS did was an experiemnt or creation as they developed the format. It really was a modern day Free Form format. The frequency 104.1 had failed with other formats before Real Radio was introduced, so Press Broadcasting felt it had nothing to lose by experimenting. The experiment paid off big time, and soon after, other stations, such as KLSX, followed suit. In fact, the orginal Real Radio 97.1 program director had been hired away from WTKS to launch the Los Angeles version of Real Radio, virtually copying the Orlando Real Radio format.

And, yes, those weekend informercials do, indeed, rake in the cash. However, in the case of WTKS, again, the station began in 1993 long before the idea of airing weekend informercials on an FM station was considered. As the station format developed, it became unnecessary for WTKS to air informercials as the station was constantly SOLD OUT! This includes weekends. The sales staff, as I understand, was nothing more than order takers as very little, if any, selling was involved. The advertisers called the station asking to buy airtime; not the other way around.

 

[musicfan101]

David, the "Better" format on 103.1 with the higher ratings is selling and cashflowing far LESS the the BAD format that Indie was.
Entravision is regretting the move. The lost a few million a year on the deal.

Entravision would have probably lost some prime advertisers in this fiscal year. While I loved the station and even debated for the station's return in one of my first posts on this board (I didn't know what I was dealing with when I debated David E about this), the economy would have impeded the station tremendously. There would have been less shows, less DJs and a more research based playlist. (Although I personally didn't mind the "KROQ Jr." Indie 103.1)

Agreed, I had no problem with the "KROQ Jr."...if Indie were still on the air, it would most likely be automated with a couple of DJ's anyway. Like I said, when the economy improves, Entravision would have no problem with bringing the format back, especially when it did so well for them finacially...

 

[davideduardo]

Like I said, when the economy improves, Entravision would have no problem with bringing the format back, especially when it did so well for them finacially...

No, it didn't. The last year was a downward spiral, and they lost their JSA, their GM/GSM and billing dropped 30% from 2007. They also lost money. They were only marginally profitable for a brief period, thanks to the JSA, an alliance not likely to occur again in the future.

The liklihood of the format returning is somewhere between 0 and -100.

 

[radiojomo]

The liklihood of the format returning is somewhere between 0 and -100.

No need to correct you David but "Indie" was never its own "format". Indie 103.1 was an Alternative station focusing on playing more new artists. In its last year, you could say that the difference between KROQ and Indie was getting smaller and smaller. An Alternative station focusing on new music could still return...just depends what the trend is at the moment.

 

[davideduardo]

The liklihood of the format returning is somewhere between 0 and -100.

No need to correct you David but "Indie" was never its own "format". Indie 103.1 was an Alternative station focusing on playing more new artists. In its last year, you could say that the difference between KROQ and Indie was getting smaller and smaller. An Alternative station focusing on new music could still return...just depends what the trend is at the moment.

Obviously, in the context of Entravision's 103.1, which was the subject of the subset of the thread, "the format" means "alternative" and the place it will never return to is Entravision's 103.1. I do understand that the station was programmed with an alternative format based on lots of unfamiliar music... which is something that explained its horrible showing in the PPM, where negatives trump "image" and stations with limited familiarity just don't win.

 

[musicfan101]

The liklihood of the format returning is somewhere between 0 and -100.

No need to correct you David but "Indie" was never its own "format". Indie 103.1 was an Alternative station focusing on playing more new artists. In its last year, you could say that the difference between KROQ and Indie was getting smaller and smaller. An Alternative station focusing on new music could still return...just depends what the trend is at the moment.

Obviously, in the context of Entravision's 103.1, which was the subject of the subset of the thread, "the format" means "alternative" and the place it will never return to is Entravision's 103.1. I do understand that the station was programmed with an alternative format based on lots of unfamiliar music... which is something that explained its horrible showing in the PPM, where negatives trump "image" and stations with limited familiarity just don't win.

I wouldn't say that...there are people/advertisers who don't know who Dead By Sunrise or Silversun Pickups are and guess what is 13th in the ratings?

 

[likeaboss]

With the exception of playing music on the weekends, KLSX sort of did the same thing. They built and developed shows on a local level, and commercials were always shortened. I'm guessing with the WTKS hosts, they are being paid far less?

I don't see why KLSX would play music during the weekends? Those informercials brought in money...

But KLSX didn't. Most of the shows were based in LA, but they weren't "local." Leykis and Carolla were both syndicated. FHF broadcast to San Deigo and Phoenix for a time. Leykis was pretty much developed by Westwood One, and the Carolla Show was developed by CBS Corporate. The Monsters of the Morning on WTKS started off on weekends, then went to evenings, then went to middays, and were then put on in mornings when Stern was pulled. KLSX didn't (maybe couldn't) put FHF on in Mornings when Stern left.

I have no idea what you mean by saying the commercials were "shortened" at KLSX. They played 16-20 minutes of spots an hour. Amp plays half that, or less (none on Mondays). A heavy spot load will affect ratings in a negative way.

Yes Infomercials will bring in money, but they will KILL your ratings. Guess what? Having high ratings and selling spots will bring in money too! Would KIIS ever dream of putting an infomercial on Saturday at noon? KLSX (along with the Free FM's in San Deigo, Phoenix, San Francisco, and Chicago and on and on...) all had non stop infomercials on the weekends, and they are all gone. WTKS has compeling weekend progamming, and they are still the same format. Do you see now why KLSX maybe should have played music, or put on some GOOD shows on the weekend?

But good news, musicfan101. If you REALLY miss those old KLSX weekend infomercials, you can find all your old favorites at KFWB or KABC...

 

[davideduardo]

I wouldn't say that...there are people/advertisers who don't know who Dead By Sunrise or Silversun Pickups are and guess what is 13th in the ratings?

First, nobody cares what advertisers are familiar with. In a market like LA, leading stations may get a third to a half of revenue from agency offices that are not even near LA; listening to the stations that are "bought" for a campaign is not a necessary requirement of the buying process. Knowing all the artists on each station definitely is not. Advertisers are "pleased" with a good CPP, a nice contribution to the buy's reach, and value added, not by the latest cut by one of a particular format's core artists.

Core listeners to a particular format will get to know the new songs as long as they are good and not so many as to be confusing or to limit assimilation of each individual song.

In the sales demo, as posted in a message on another site, #13 is KSCA. I don't think Piolín is playing either of those bands. If you are looking at 6+, I guess you mean KROQ...

 

[davideduardo]

I have no idea what you mean by saying the commercials were "shortened" at KLSX. They played 16-20 minutes of spots an hour. Amp plays half that, or less (none on Mondays). A heavy spot load will affect ratings in a negative way.

One of the reasons talk, in any form, is an owner-friendly format is that it can and does accomodate more spots than a youth oriented music format. And, in that context, listeners tolerate and accept a heavy spolt load on talk stations.... generally 5 to 6 minutes more than the average on music stations.

Amp is geaed to run 10 to 12 minutes an hour... but the station is still too new to have fully capitalized on its ratings success, particularly with agencies that use multi-book averages or annual averages to make buys. So KLSX was running 16 minutes and up... typical for a talker. Move on, nothing to see here.

 

[musicfan101]

With the exception of playing music on the weekends, KLSX sort of did the same thing. They built and developed shows on a local level, and commercials were always shortened. I'm guessing with the WTKS hosts, they are being paid far less?

I don't see why KLSX would play music during the weekends? Those informercials brought in money...

But KLSX didn't. Most of the shows were based in LA, but they weren't "local." Leykis and Carolla were both syndicated. FHF broadcast to San Deigo and Phoenix for a time. Leykis was pretty much developed by Westwood One, and the Carolla Show was developed by CBS Corporate. The Monsters of the Morning on WTKS started off on weekends, then went to evenings, then went to middays, and were then put on in mornings when Stern was pulled. KLSX didn't (maybe couldn't) put FHF on in Mornings when Stern left.

I have no idea what you mean by saying the commercials were "shortened" at KLSX. They played 16-20 minutes of spots an hour. Amp plays half that, or less (none on Mondays). A heavy spot load will affect ratings in a negative way.

Yes Infomercials will bring in money, but they will KILL your ratings. Guess what? Having high ratings and selling spots will bring in money too! Would KIIS ever dream of putting an infomercial on Saturday at noon? KLSX (along with the Free FM's in San Deigo, Phoenix, San Francisco, and Chicago and on and on...) all had non stop infomercials on the weekends, and they are all gone. WTKS has compeling weekend progamming, and they are still the same format. Do you see now why KLSX maybe should have played music, or put on some GOOD shows on the weekend?

But good news, musicfan101. If you REALLY miss those old KLSX weekend infomercials, you can find all your old favorites at KFWB or KABC...

Compared to AM radio, the commercials were shortened. Why would you compare commercial spots from a talk station to a music station??? Who gives a goddamn about how "a heavy spot load will affect your ratings in a negative way?" KFI has a heavy spot load, and they seem to do well in the ratings.

I didn't know people would care about how the ratings would be for radio. KIIS would never put an infomercial on Saturday/Sunday afternoon because they are a music station!

I'm so fu***** tired of people saying how bad the programming was for actual shows that aired during the weekend! Okay, you like that redneck "I just f'ed my cousin" talent that airs on WTKS, I get it!

 

[musicfan101]

I wouldn't say that...there are people/advertisers who don't know who Dead By Sunrise or Silversun Pickups are and guess what is 13th in the ratings?

First, nobody cares what advertisers are familiar with. In a market like LA, leading stations may get a third to a half of revenue from agency offices that are not even near LA; listening to the stations that are "bought" for a campaign is not a necessary requirement of the buying process. Knowing all the artists on each station definitely is not. Advertisers are "pleased" with a good CPP, a nice contribution to the buy's reach, and value added, not by the latest cut by one of a particular format's core artists.

Core listeners to a particular format will get to know the new songs as long as they are good and not so many as to be confusing or to limit assimilation of each individual song.

In the sales demo, as posted in a message on another site, #13 is KSCA. I don't think Piolín is playing either of those bands. If you are looking at 6+, I guess you mean KROQ...

My bad DE, I thought KROQ was #13 - should've at least looked at Arbitron before I posted

 

[davideduardo]

Compared to AM radio, the commercials were shortened.

As did Likeaboss, I ask you what this means. The commercials, individually, run 60" or 30" or sometimes 10" or 15" whether the station is AM or FM. Any other length is very rare, and it is technically illegal to "shorten" the commercials as that would end up being fradulent billing when a client buys a 60 and a station compresses it to a 55 second spot.

Do you really mean that the stopsets are shorter? In fact, talk station stopsets are nearly always shorter, but there are more of them. Music stations tend to do just two stops an hour, and that would mean more spots in each than common on talkers.

Why would you compare commercial spots from a talk station to a music station???

Why woudn't you? Often, they are the same agency spots on both!

Who gives a goddamn about how "a heavy spot load will affect your ratings in a negative way?" KFI has a heavy spot load, and they seem to do well in the ratings.

Talkers in general run significantly more minutes of spots than music stations. Like the old thing about why a dog can lick itself, they do it because they can... the format just tolerates more commercials.

I'm so fu***** tired of people saying how bad the programming was for actual shows that aired during the weekend! Okay, you like that redneck "I just f'ed my cousin" talent that airs on WTKS, I get it!

Orlando long ago lost that "southernmost city in Georgia" feel. It's not much different in attitude from other significant cities its size, and is perhaps more liberal in its outlook due to the huge amount of foreign tourism and the large Latino and other ethnic communities. What is different is that a major Orlando station bills less than a fifth of what a big LA station does, so there is less money for talent, promotions, etc. On the other hand, cost of living is a lot lower than LA!

 

[SandyG]

MusicFan I actually agree with you! The Monsters of the whatever are the most talentless hick hacks I have ever heard. The only two good shows EVER on WTKS were Stern and the Philips Phile. David, before you comment about a station, listen to a podcast or something. The Monsters are what MusicFan is talking about, not the city of Orlando. They make Larry The Cable guy seem smart.

 

[karpaccio]

The only Internet talk station that gets it is LA Talk Radio.com. These guys have great hosts and some awesome shows, live and without commercials.

 

[musicfan101]

@DE: Yeah, I meant to say the stopsets were shortened compared to AM radio...I still don't see how playing "targeted music" during the weekends on KLSX would've helped when KROQ already did that 24/7?

One thing I have always wondered is how Loveline would've done if it were moved over to KLSX in the past...(I know it's too late for woulda, shoulda) but it wouldn't have been a bad idea...

 

[michael hagerty]

One thing I have always wondered is how Loveline would've done if it were moved over to KLSX in the past...(I know it's too late for woulda, shoulda) but it wouldn't have been a bad idea...

That's a very good idea, musicfan. It would have allowed KROQ to focus purely on music and would have brought fresh listeners to KLSX, both in the evenings during Loveline and possibly to the other KLSX shows.