I miss the old KNX

[Uncle Rob]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

 

[davideduardo]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

Let me guess... you are around 60.

 

[calguy]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

Let me guess... you are around 60.

You don't have to be old to appreciate that. Time marches on, but change isn't always for the better. Again, as I've said before, it's all been over-researched. KNX sounds okay now, not bad at times, but KNX is still trying to recover from the idiotic moves of David G. Hall, and it may never be the same. I'm sure you'd say that it's for the better, but one of the reasons KNX is on the uptick is because the main competition has bee removed.

 

[davideduardo]

You don't have to be old to appreciate that. Time marches on, but change isn't always for the better. Again, as I've said before, it's all been over-researched. KNX sounds okay now, not bad at times, but KNX is still trying to recover from the idiotic moves of David G. Hall, and it may never be the same. I'm sure you'd say that it's for the better, but one of the reasons KNX is on the uptick is because the main competition has bee removed.

But the station is far more listenable now, with fullfilment of the understanding that if you tune in, there is far less chance of hearing something other than the news...

Nicolau's editorials were geting stodgy, and the told time radio was a horrible interruption when people were driving back on Sunday from a weekend away and wanting to know the traffic and the latest news.

The out of place play by play, and geezer generation horse race reports and such are gone, and the few interruptions remaining will hopefully disappear. It's hard to get a news station out of the 55+ demo, but KNX is doing what it can in a market where all news is increasingly difficult to sustain.

 

[david]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

You are way to willing to slam and insult. It is a supportable statement that KNX as it was run by George Nicholaw is superior to today's KNX. It is also correct that Andy Ludlum and Julie Chen have been tweaking KNX today for the better, and have produced a KNX that is noticably better than it was under David G. Hall.

Your comments about the intrusion of play by play and misfit nature of the old time radio shows are correct, but I disagree with you regarding the op-eds. George's KNX was also wonderful in its invitation to its audience of newsmakers to respond to their op-eds ("if you have a different opinion, we'd like to hear from you"). You may also be correct that the horse racing replays may have on occasion driven people to tune away, however they were a signature staple of the station, and were edited down to such brief snippets, that I suspect they were an asset more so than a liability.

The unwillingness of this CBS O&O to run the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast during prime hours these days is frustrating. (Similar sentiments regarding 790 KABC). The headline package that George's KNX supplied after the top of the hour news as well as at :30 (quick summaries of the upcoming news stories in order plus sports and business headlines by those respective anchors) were superior in both utility and spurring the listener to stay tuned than the current headline approach.

It was George who launched the traffic every 6 minutes branding in the early 90s...and that was overkill, but was smart in its approach to spotlight KNX as a utility (neigh I say necessity). The traffic on the 5's today is a smarter approach.

All in all, today's KNX is a good product, but one need not be "around 60" to understand the radio formatics along with the marketing and branding principles that made George's KNX a superior station not only for its day, but for this day too.

 

[davideduardo]

All in all, today's KNX is a good product, but one need not be "around 60" to understand the radio formatics along with the marketing and branding principles that made George's KNX a superior station not only for its day, but for this day too.

KNX, when still running the old-time radio and the dreary editorials was way out of date for most listeners under 60 or so. I'm nearly a decade out of a sales demo, and I had never heard any of those radio series when first broadcast, so the appeal was definitely to the over-70 set.

Horse racing has always been a way of conducting legal gambling, but the Indian Gaming casinos are all over the SoCal landscape. I'd rather go and see a show, get a not-bad meal cheap and have some fun than go and watch a horse race, and, given the bankruptcies in horse racing, so would most other people.

There are just two examples of how KNX had failed to keep up to date.

The discussion of the national 5 minute news vs. more local news could fuel another interminable thread, with all the interpretations of localism and those in favor of it singing the hymn of "local is what will save radio" without understanding what localism means to most people today...

Yes, KNX went through some dreadful years. I think part of that was due to the thought that there was a way to make all news more attractive in this market. Of course, the answer is that there is no such solution, other than delivering concise, quick news of interest.

 

[calguy]

David E., I have to respectfully disagree with some of your points. I understand the removal of the old time radio drama's, I liked them, and they kept up the connection to old Hollywood and network radio of the past, but I understood why they were dropped. What I didn't care for were the changes to the news operation under Hall. Changing an established clock on an all-news station is stupid, it just upsets people that expect to get traffic, business and sports at the times they knew to listen for them. Didn't care for some of the anchor and reporter changes either, and many were based on age and not on talent and experience. In other cultures they don't discard older people, they look up to and learn from them. I also liked the editorials. They provoked thought and taught as well. There should be room for programming to all ages. I know that's idealistic, and unrealistic, but it doesn't mean that I'm wrong. If I was, no one would want to listen to your opinions and learn from them...

But perhaps I'm in the minority...

David at USC, gotta say I agree with most of what you're saying. I believe you've hit it squarely on the head.

 

[musicfan101]

All in all, today's KNX is a good product, but one need not be "around 60" to understand the radio formatics along with the marketing and branding principles that made George's KNX a superior station not only for its day, but for this day too.

KNX, when still running the old-time radio and the dreary editorials was way out of date for most listeners under 60 or so. I'm nearly a decade out of a sales demo, and I had never heard any of those radio series when first broadcast, so the appeal was definitely to the over-70 set.

Horse racing has always been a way of conducting legal gambling, but the Indian Gaming casinos are all over the SoCal landscape. I'd rather go and see a show, get a not-bad meal cheap and have some fun than go and watch a horse race, and, given the bankruptcies in horse racing, so would most other people.

There are just two examples of how KNX had failed to keep up to date.

The discussion of the national 5 minute news vs. more local news could fuel another interminable thread, with all the interpretations of localism and those in favor of it singing the hymn of "local is what will save radio" without understanding what localism means to most people today...

Yes, KNX went through some dreadful years. I think part of that was due to the thought that there was a way to make all news more attractive in this market. Of course, the answer is that there is no such solution, other than delivering concise, quick news of interest.

Dude, aren't you over 60?

 

[ercjncpr]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

Ditto, but this is now the 21st century, radio has changed, the LA market has changed and the old KNX has no place in it.

 

[ercjncpr]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

Let me guess... you are around 60.

I will be 54 in August and I listen to very little LA radio because I don't fit the demographic

 

[ercjncpr]

By the way, David E, The Drama Hour was also facing some strong competition by 2002 thanks to the internet and sat radio. So it was not just the demographics. OTR is still quite plentiful on other media, it just no longer fits AM and FM

 

[ercjncpr]

All in all, today's KNX is a good product, but one need not be "around 60" to understand the radio formatics along with the marketing and branding principles that made George's KNX a superior station not only for its day, but for this day too.

KNX, when still running the old-time radio and the dreary editorials was way out of date for most listeners under 60 or so. I'm nearly a decade out of a sales demo, and I had never heard any of those radio series when first broadcast, so the appeal was definitely to the over-70 set.

Horse racing has always been a way of conducting legal gambling, but the Indian Gaming casinos are all over the SoCal landscape. I'd rather go and see a show, get a not-bad meal cheap and have some fun than go and watch a horse race, and, given the bankruptcies in horse racing, so would most other people.

There are just two examples of how KNX had failed to keep up to date.

The discussion of the national 5 minute news vs. more local news could fuel another interminable thread, with all the interpretations of localism and those in favor of it singing the hymn of "local is what will save radio" without understanding what localism means to most people today...

Yes, KNX went through some dreadful years. I think part of that was due to the thought that there was a way to make all news more attractive in this market. Of course, the answer is that there is no such solution, other than delivering concise, quick news of interest.

Dude, aren't you over 60?

Yes, ironically David is involved in a business that would not have him as a listener!

 

[nmoore6676]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

Let me guess... you are around 60.

David, your comment is out of bounds. from your resume it is obvious that you yourself are not a spring chicken so why you hate people in my age group escapes me. You are very astute and provide a lot of valuable insights except when you get on the bent that anyone over 54 should just sit back and await the grim reaper. I get the fact that ad agencies are not interested in us and I have accepted that as THEIR loss, we still buy stuff so whenever I go shopping now I go out of my way to patronize advertisers that do advertise on stations that I like. If my fellows of the Geritol set would all do likewise the big guys might start to like us again.

That being said, the radio dramas and other classic radio shows are better placed on stations like Retro 1260 back there and Good Time Oldies where I am now. I listened to them while they were on KNX but to be honest I don't believe that was the best of times for 1070, if news is what you tuned in for. When I wanted news in those days I always went to KFWB. I will accept David E's thoughts, discounting the dissing of geezers, on the emerging of KNX into this century. Because of the many sources of news it is not easy to do it on radio against the competition that exists from TV, the internet plus texting and tweeting. But it is now the only all new station for LA and are really truly doing all news now so only time will tell if it is working.

No I do not recall the shows from The Golden Age so much except as vague impressions of things I heard from my parent's big console radio in the living room from under my widdle blankie. However as a person who loves radio I am fascinated by those old shows and the way they portrayed drama and comedy without visuals. In fact I may be an odd duck but a lot of my TV "viewing" is done without actually looking at the screen. These days it works better for me because the camera angles and editing used on a lot of TV shows is disturbing, to me, and does not enhance my experience.

 

[davideduardo]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

David, your comment is out of bounds. from your resume it is obvious that you yourself are not a spring chicken so why you hate people in my age group escapes me.

I do not hate older people. But someone who likes old radio dramas from the 40's is 99.99999% certain to be in their 60's, so that is a truth.

You are very astute and provide a lot of valuable insights except when you get on the bent that anyone over 54 should just sit back and await the grim reaper.

That is not the right interpretation. What I try to say is that anyone over 55 who expects radio to provide programming specifict to them is just out of their mind.

I get the fact that ad agencies are not interested in us and I have accepted that as THEIR loss, we still buy stuff so whenever I go shopping now I go out of my way to patronize advertisers that do advertise on stations that I like.

You have that wrong too. Agencies just do what their clients tell them to do, and one of the things clients do is target demographics under 55 unless they are doing print in the AARP magazine or similar...

Clients don't care how much the senior generation spends. The issue is that older consumers require that much more advertising to make the sale because of stronger brand / product preferences and the end result is that the cost of the sale often is greater than the profit.

If my fellows of the Geritol set would all do likewise the big guys might start to like us again.

This is one of the "when pigs fly" situations. If advertisers tell agencies not to buy 55+, don't blame radio or the agencies. And if the advertisers themselves spend hundreds and hundreds of millions on consumer research and find they can't make money against older demos, then don't blame them either.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes, ironically David is involved in a business that would not have him as a listener!

Not ironic... think of the greatest genius in reaching children with film and TV... Walt Disney.

 

[WTFman]

Before Mr. Eduardo ( ) and his cohorts are able to hustle all the old coots off to the liquidation chamber
maybe some marketing genius out there in LALAland could invent GeezerRadio where The Lone Ranger might
ride again and Joe Friday could keep the scum off the streets of our fading imagination. I mean, WTF,
doesn't the crotchety old 55+ demographic have any money to blow? I don't get it. My move into Books-
On-Tape (MP3's, CD's, etc) is a direct result of my finding little I want to hear on RADIO anymore. Beats me.

 

[michael hagerty]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

David, your comment is out of bounds. from your resume it is obvious that you yourself are not a spring chicken so why you hate people in my age group escapes me.

I do not hate older people. But someone who likes old radio dramas from the 40's is 99.99999% certain to be in their 60's, so that is a truth.

I rarely (if ever) question David's demographic knowledge, but in this case I have to.

To be in your 60s this year, you'd have to be born between 1941 and 1950. I don't know how many 9 year olds were heavy into radio drama in 1950...but the big bulge in 60-somethings comes with the baby boomers from 1946 onward...and they were more likely to listen to Shadoe Stevens than The Shadow.

I'm betting the demographic sweet spot for Old Time Radio is in the 70s, 80s and maybe even older. My mom liked them. She'd have been 88 last week.

Bill Cosby spoke fondly of them in his old comedy routines...he'll be 73 this year. The youngest person I know who's a fan is 72.

I'll be 54 in a couple of weeks. I'd listen as a novelty if nothing else compelling was on...but I'm betting not a lot of people my age did or would. And I'm in the last year of being of any interest to advertisers.

 

[davideduardo]

I rarely (if ever) question David's demographic knowledge, but in this case I have to.

To be in your 60s this year, you'd have to be born between 1941 and 1950. I don't know how many 9 year olds were heavy into radio drama in 1950...but the big bulge in 60-somethings comes with the baby boomers from 1946 onward...and they were more likely to listen to Shadoe Stevens than The Shadow.

I'm betting the demographic sweet spot for Old Time Radio is in the 70s, 80s and maybe even older. My mom liked them. She'd have been 88 last week.

Bill Cosby spoke fondly of them in his old comedy routines...he'll be 73 this year. The youngest person I know who's a fan is 72.

I'll be 54 in a couple of weeks. I'd listen as a novelty if nothing else compelling was on...but I'm betting not a lot of people my age did or would. And I'm in the last year of being of any interest to advertisers.

My bad. I should have said "60's and beyond." Your timeline is very correct!

I still can remember (I'm not that old!) sitting with my parents and listening to the radio as a child; I can't remember what shows, though. I just recall the experience.

And, while I am sure there are a few people under 65 or 70 who enjoy radio drama, they are exceptions... just as finding teens who like KRTH today!

 

[davideduardo]

Before Mr. Eduardo ( ) and his cohorts are able to hustle all the old coots off to the liquidation chamber
maybe some marketing genius out there in LALAland could invent GeezerRadio where The Lone Ranger might
ride again and Joe Friday could keep the scum off the streets of our fading imagination. I mean, WTF,
doesn't the crotchety old 55+ demographic have any money to blow? I don't get it. My move into Books-
On-Tape (MP3's, CD's, etc) is a direct result of my finding little I want to hear on RADIO anymore. Beats me.

This isn't "Field of Dreams" and you could build it but they (the advertisers) would not come.

The whole issue of 55+ targeted programming is that there is essentially no ad agency client targeting their radio advertising at 55+. So, no matter what the programming, there would be no significant ad support.

 

[WTFman]

"The whole issue of 55+ targeted programming is that there is essentially no ad agency client targeting their radio advertising at 55+. So, no matter what the programming, there would be no significant ad support."

---Why not? Why is no ad agency client targeting their radio advertising at 55+? THAT's what I don't get.