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I need help

J

JCM

Guest
I am looking to build a home studio... i need to record phone calls. what equipment will i need? I know i need a hybrid but, which one do i go with ( i was looking @ the jk audio innkepper1x and the telos modem style)

Whats a good mixer (behringer)? Can i record striaght into my computer using cool edit pro?

For the microphone currently i have a samson multi pattern condenser mic, will i need a compressor or proccesor?

Thanks for all your help
 
The JK audio is good and inexpensive. Behrenger boards are ok, some have noise issues. Mackies are the choice for many. Yes, you can record into your computer with CE, but you might think about investing in a high end sound card. That makes all the difference in the world.
 
What you should buy really depends on your needs and how serious you are about quality.

I would not recommend Behringer for any type of professional work. Any more, Behringer gear can sound pretty good, but the build quality is absolutely horrible. The pots suck and all the internal parts are cheap. A small Mackie from the VLZ3 or Onyx series would be a much better choice. I have a soft spot for Soundcraft and Allen & Heath, as well. Alesis and Yamaha both make small mixers that are considerably better than Behringer, too.

I also agree that you should be using a better soundcard. The most popular would be the M-Audio Audiophile 2496. It's not an amazing sounding card, but it is an entry-level professional card. The best SOUNDING card for the money is the E-mu 1212m, which sells for $150. Soundcard will make a massive difference.

Spending cash on an outboard processor is completely up to you and depends on your needs. You can do your processing in the software, if you prefer. Certainly a cheaper option. I prefer the convenience of outboard gear. I use a combination of the Focusrite Voicemaster Pro and a DBX 166.

Emmett
 
Emmett said:
I also agree that you should be using a better soundcard. The most popular would be the M-Audio Audiophile 2496. It's not an amazing sounding card, but it is an entry-level professional card. The best SOUNDING card for the money is the E-mu 1212m, which sells for $150. Soundcard will make a massive difference.

I use Vegas with the SoundBlaster Audigy card that came with my PC... I've never had any problems with it or sensed any reduced quality to my audio, both for v-o as well as imaging production, never had any client complaints either... what differences would a higher-end soundcard make?
 
SoundBlasters were designed for gaming, not recording. That means much less thought and R&D has gone into the recording part of the card. SoundBlasters internally resample everything to 48k. If you're recording at 48k, this, in itself, is no problem. But if you're recording at the standard 44.1k, it is an extra conversion process in there that can seriously degrade the audio, as this is done "on the fly" and is not accurate at all.

Beyond that, the essential quality of the AD/DA converters will be very different. Much better with a card that was designed for recording.

Frequency response will be flatter (the high end usually dies off with consumer cards), the noise level will be hugely different. The connectors will be of a higher quality and will provide better channel isolation and phase discrimination, etc.

And then there's the simple fact that they were designed specifically for recording.

Emmett
 
What are your thoughts on USB soundcards, such as the M-Audio Fast Track Pro or the E-MU 0404 USB? I'd rather not mess with the insides of my PC if I can avoid it but am kind of curious to hear what my work would sound like with a beefier soundcard and could probably scrounge up a couple hundred bucks to improve my home studio.

Thanks!
 
The USB devices SOUND fine...But they do present some problems. First, you get WAY more bang for your buck with PCI cards. I'm sure you can find someone to help you install it if you're uncomfortable with it. But it's a pretty straightforward operation. Give a friend $20 to throw it in for you.

Anyhow, there's also the problem with the USB bus. If you have other devices on the same bus, you'll get skippy audio. This is especially true with wireless keybaord/mouse combos, but anything can cause it.

The other option is a firewire box, like the Focusrite Saffire LE ($300). They usually perform better and they don't draw from the USB bus.

IMO, PCI cards are the best bet. You literally have to spend about $500 to do any better than the E-mu 1212M, which is $150. In fact, going purely by specs, I don't know of any card that's better at any price.

Emmett
 
quote: The best SOUNDING card for the money is the E-mu 1212m

Uhhhm I'd disagree with that, but still a way better card than onboard stuff or an audigy. You should definately invest in a decent card and you'll be OK....
 
Emmett said:
What you should buy really depends on your needs and how serious you are about quality.

Agreed, but it also depends on what you are going to do with it.

Emmett said:
I would not recommend Behringer for any type of professional work. Any more, Behringer gear can sound pretty good, but the build quality is absolutely horrible. The pots suck and all the internal parts are cheap.

It is not my intent to either encourage or discourage anyone from using Behringer gear, but I am curious about your response. It is a very common one that I think is built mostly on "urban legend." Have you ever actually looked inside anything made by Behringer? I sure have. I used to be a dealer for them, Mackie, Yamaha, Tascam, Alesis, Peavey, JBL, Allen & Heath, Midas, Samson, Soundcraft, QSC, Crown and another 50-75 other well known brands of audio equipment. We even had an on site service department so digging in the bowels of things wasn't uncommon. I'm still enough of a technician to know which end of a soldering iron to hang on to.

In my opinion, Behringer products are built as well or even better than many more expensive brands. The PC boards all use Surface Mount technology, as does just about anyone else in the business. They are hard to service, but no worse than most other entry to mid level products. If you are wiling to notch the price level up about 10 db, you will find quite a different story, but I’m assuming we are talking in the under $5-600 price category. In the case of Behringer, it may be WAY under that price point. Very little electronic equipment is serviceable these days. Behringer's pots seem to be sourced from Panasonic. They are not horrible, but they aren't a Penny & Giles either. They are simply short throw faders, just like Mackie, Alesis, Samson, low end Yamaha, etc. I think you will find the rotary faders are similar, and come from the same suppliers that most "pro-sumer" equipment uses. Most controls like this are specified by the manufacturer as having 20% tolerance. That may be why you say the pots suck. I’d prefer 100 mm Penny and Giles, ore even Alps farers, but that would certainly impact the price. Have you priced a P&G fader recently?

Admittedly, because of the pots one channel may appear to have slightly more gain at the same point than another, but that isn't uncommon on almost any low priced mixer. Because of the tolerance issue, you may get lucky and get some that are great. Then there is the possibility that you get one really is out of whack. That's why it is a good idea to purchase from a dealer who had a decent return policy. If you get one that is several inconsistent, return it to the dealer for another one. That goes for any brand.

One of the things Behringer has going for it is a lack of wall warts. Most of their small mixers do use an external power supply, but theirs are at least a "lump on the line" style, rather that the cheaper "wall wart." They are a lot easier to deal with. As far as I know, all of their rack mount stuff uses internal power supplies with fairly beefy torriodal power transformers, rather than a cheap switching supply. I look at that a s a sign of quality, not cheapness. Power is connected via a conventional detachable IEC style power cord. It sure beats yet another wall wart.

As for internal build quality, it usually looks pretty good. There is not always a lot to look at inside, but you’ll find that to be common in most electronics these days. What is there is well laid out, the wiring is neat and tidy, and it is mechanically sound. The connectors are decent quality, and the designs are usually ingenious enough to allow for a lot of versatility.

Add to that the fact that these things are so inexpensive that you question how they even got them stateside, they can be an excellent value. That low price also makes them disposable, and they should be considered that way. No repair shop can survive without billing about $60-80 per hour these days, so it makes no sense to consider repairing a $99 mixer that will take a couple of hours to fix. Such are the times we live in, and that is true for all products, not just Behringer's.

In the time that I was in the pro-audio sales business (nearly 35years) we had on average, less problems with Behringer products than most. Failures and returns were considerably less than 1% which beat a lot of much more expensive products that people seem to hold near and dear. Usually, if the device worked out of the box, it would be fine for quite some time. When and if it failed, you simply replaced it with another. By that time, there was usually a new and improved model that you wanted anyway, so it is of little consequence.

Bottom line is, Behringer is not a high end product, and was never intended to be. It is a very adequate product, like many others, some of which cost a lot more. In fact, I think some of the more expensive choices are actually worse, especially when it comes to reliability. If you are a professional VO guy building your dream studio, I certainly wouldn't expect you to be using a Behringer. That's why companies like Allen & Heath, Soundcraft and Midas exist. Yet I know of several small market stations that use them in production and on the air, just like the Mackie. Both products fill a niche. If you are sitting at home and trying to put together a small studio they are certainly worthy of your consideration.

By the way, I sold my sound company nearly six years ago, so I don't have anything to gain one way or the other. The new owners don't owe me a dime, but they do report that some of the new Behringer products have been very good at prices that are hard to argue with.
 
My thoughts come straight from experience, not urban legend. Maybe I've just had bad luck, but I don't think so. When I said "pots", I was speaking primarily of the rotary pots...Specifically the gain pots. They are absolutely awful. Combine that with shoddy buttons that tend to wear out quickly and short easily and you're left with an imperfect product. Of course, considering Behringer is built to a price point rather than a quality level, it is to be expected, to some extent. I used to be a big supporter of Behringer products. When they come off the shelf, they seem to be good quality. But in practice, they simply don't last. I have found the connectors to be one of the weakest points. They could be easily replaced or modified, but who wants to go through all that?

The designs, themselves, are solid. But they are also stolen. Behringer not only has a poor reputation with many consumers, but is also looked at as a "bad apple" in the industry because of their history of steeling designs. Behringer has paid quite a lot of money in court settlements to Mackie, for instance. Sweetwater carries almost no Behringer products, partially for this reason, and partially because of the low customer satisfaction rating.

As I said before, the sound isn't bad. It's not great...Channels aren't matched well and they are slightly noisier than their Mackie counterparts. But considering the price, the sound quality issues can be easily overlooked. It's the basic build quality that I take issue with. The sound quality issue is what I would call the urban legend.

That's not to say that ALL Behringer products are disasters. In fact, the ADA8000 is pretty highly regarded. With a few inexpensive modifications (new connectors and new gain pots), it becomes a high-end piece of gear. I know a few people that hate Behringer with a passion, yet accept the ADA8000. DI boxes and headphone amps from Behringer are also pretty decent. I also know several people who like the BCF2000.

The problem is that Behringer tries to be everything to everyone. They don't have a specialty. As a result, all of their products suffer.

Off the shelf, they're fine...I've never had a gripe. They just have no longevity. It is true that you can replace the product each time it dies and get the latest and greatest. But I prefer to have a long lasting, rock solid piece of gear that will continue to serve me well, even if it becomes outdated. I prefer to upgrade when I feel like it, not when something dies on me. Maybe that's just me.

Emmett
 
Emmett said:
My thoughts come straight from experience, not urban legend. Maybe I've just had bad luck, but I don't think so. When I said "pots", I was speaking primarily of the rotary pots...Specifically the gain pots. They are absolutely awful. Combine that with shoddy buttons that tend to wear out quickly and short easily and you're left with an imperfect product. Of course, considering Behringer is built to a price point rather than a quality level, it is to be expected, to some extent. I used to be a big supporter of Behringer products. When they come off the shelf, they seem to be good quality. But in practice, they simply don't last. I have found the connectors to be one of the weakest points. They could be easily replaced or modified, but who wants to go through all that?

The designs, themselves, are solid. But they are also stolen. Behringer not only has a poor reputation with many consumers, but is also looked at as a "bad apple" in the industry because of their history of steeling designs. Behringer has paid quite a lot of money in court settlements to Mackie, for instance. Sweetwater carries almost no Behringer products, partially for this reason, and partially because of the low customer satisfaction rating.

As I said before, the sound isn't bad. It's not great...Channels aren't matched well and they are slightly noisier than their Mackie counterparts. But considering the price, the sound quality issues can be easily overlooked. It's the basic build quality that I take issue with. The sound quality issue is what I would call the urban legend.

That's not to say that ALL Behringer products are disasters. In fact, the ADA8000 is pretty highly regarded. With a few inexpensive modifications (new connectors and new gain pots), it becomes a high-end piece of gear. I know a few people that hate Behringer with a passion, yet accept the ADA8000. DI boxes and headphone amps from Behringer are also pretty decent. I also know several people who like the BCF2000.

The problem is that Behringer tries to be everything to everyone. They don't have a specialty. As a result, all of their products suffer.

Off the shelf, they're fine...I've never had a gripe. They just have no longevity. It is true that you can replace the product each time it dies and get the latest and greatest. But I prefer to have a long lasting, rock solid piece of gear that will continue to serve me well, even if it becomes outdated. I prefer to upgrade when I feel like it, not when something dies on me. Maybe that's just me.

Emmett
 
Sorry about the previous post. This thing times out very quicly if you want to fix a mistake.

Emmett said:
The designs, themselves, are solid. But they are also stolen. Behringer not only has a poor reputation with many consumers, but is also looked at as a "bad apple" in the industry because of their history of steeling designs. Behringer has paid quite a lot of money in court settlements to Mackie, for instance.

Actually, that is not exactly accurate, and "stolen" is a failrly heavy duty term. It is true that there was a lawsuit from Mackie, and also one from Aphex. As far as I know, Behringer lost the Aphex action.

Uli Behringer used to work for Marvin Caesar of Aphex fame. He was designing a new aural exciter when he left. What was Behringer's first product? An aural exciter, naturally. My understanding is it actually differed significantly from the Aphex product, which Caesar wanted to lease to you on a per use basis. You couldn’t buy one. Behringer understood how to make it cheaper and simpler. So did BBE for that mater. Both understood that most small studios and performers wanted to actually own these things, not have to pay a royalty for every performance. Behringer produced a product that mere mortals could buy at a very reasonable price. Who is wrong? I don't know, but the actual settlement was based on the similarity of the instruction manuals (which were copywrited) not the product.

The Mackie suit was settled out of court, and the decision details were sealed from public view. It seems to me if there was a clear cut victory for either party, we would have heard a lot more about the settlement details. None of us will ever know the real truth, but the argument was over a particular mixer, which certainly did resemble a Mackie model. Given that most of us expect the knobs on a mixer to be in more or less the same place, VU Meters mounted where we can see them and input and insert jacks in a reasonably accessible place, it is hard to say that it was a copy. I was at the particular NAMM show when the sh*t hit the fan. The mixers were similar, but they were not identical. In fact, I’m not sure the Behringer was anything more than a mock-up, which is not unusual at trade shows. There is always lots of vaporware on display. They both looked more or less like what we all think of as an inexpensive eight-buss mixer. Both were a shade of gray. The knob layout was similar, and the actual knobs obviously came from the same OEM supplier in China. Past that, I don't know.

I do know that you can also buy mixers that look very similar to Mackies or Behringers under brand names like Nady, Alesis, Yamaha, Phonic, Peavey and several other brand names. Just look at Musicians' Friend or some other on line box house to confirm this. Nobody seems to be complaining anymore.

I am not claiming that Behringer is the end all of audio products. It isn't. But it is pretty good for what you pay for it. I'm sorry if you've had problems with pots and switches. I haven't, and I used to rent this stuff to the great unwashed. A lot of our rental customers could screw up a cheese sandwich. I had a lot more problems with pots and switches on entry-level Yamaha products than Behringer.

If you don’t have a lot of money to spend on a mixer, but you plan to use it to make a living, you will probably do better purchasing something like an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard. It is a nice piece of equipment that should last quite a while. But to compare it with a $99.95 (or way less, some start at $39.95 MSRP) Behringer seems unfair.
 
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