I needed a good laugh ---

[rbrucecarter5]

The latest HD radio commercial from Best Buy ---

It talks about how there are riots and water cannons as people rush to buy JVC car radios with HD. --- THEY WISH!!!!

Actually, one of their new slogans states one of the few facts I have heard from the IBOC advocates: "if you don't have an HD radio, you aren't hearing HD radio". Followed by the old "time to upgrade" slogan. First fact I remember them giving out.

 

[BRNout]

"If you don't have an HD radio, you aren't hearing HD radio" That's as profound and brilliant as the rest of their failed attempts at marketing. Honestly, who pays these idiots?

Yes, I could do better - so could most of us here. Then again, I wouldn't stoop to sell this technological abomination.

 

[stormy01]

"If you have an HD Radio, you will be hearing iBlock, and wonder why your hearing is so fatigued after listening a few hours"
That HD Radio will make an excellent lighted doorstop and foot warmer someday on those really windy days...

 

[KB1OKL]

The latest HD radio commercial from Best Buy ---

It talks about how there are riots and water cannons as people rush to buy JVC car radios with HD. --- THEY WISH!!!!

Actually, one of their new slogans states one of the few facts I have heard from the IBOC advocates: "if you don't have an HD radio, you aren't hearing HD radio". Followed by the old "time to upgrade" slogan. First fact I remember them giving out.

I heard one the other day that was so dumb and insulting I wrote to the station and complained, it sounded like it was written by the same morons who had written the famously stupid commercial "HD radio is like radio with a boob job". It also sounded like the same moronic "dumb jock after a sixpack" announcer and also ended with the astounding fact that "if you don't have an HD radio, you aren't hearing HD radio".

 

[SUPERCASTER]

"If you don't have an HD radio, you made a wise decision."

 

[jras20]

"If you don't have an HD radio, you aren't hearing HD radio"

I hear that so many times in a day it makes me just want to listen to mp3s. I like the idea of HD Radio but not all the pushing they do on the ads of getting HD Radio.

 

[KB1OKL]

I needed a laugh today too, I turned on the Sony with stock loop, put it on AM and pressed HD scan and watched it go from one end of the band to the other end without stopping even though it took a long time, great stuff that HD.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I needed a laugh today too, I turned on the Sony with stock loop, put it on AM and pressed HD scan and watched it go from one end of the band to the other end without stopping even though it took a long time, great stuff that HD.

If that was the best system they could come up with given the development time they had, they are pathetic engineers. If I had been doing the system, I would have early on thrown in the towel on AM and just suggested AMAX / C-Quam quietly re-branded. At least it worked! FM was the real market anyways - but they didn't even get that one right. They could have cleaned out all the RDS and other stuff above the stereo subcarrier, and forced those services onto HD-2, etc. and the text capabilities of the system. But wait - a few hundred people might have been forced to buy HD radios instead of clinging to their old SCA, reading for the deaf, and other specialty radios. But FM HD could have fit nicely in the existing allocations, not bothering adjacent channels, and the narrower IF bandwidth would probably give much better coverage - negating the need for a power increase. But - no - can't displace those obsolete services - lets just keep them and jam first adjacents. BAD move ---- and one that may doom a lot of NPR stations to jamming from other NPR stations, etc.

Bad engineering, pathetic marketing, non-starter HD formats, wrong products at the wrong time - is there any way this could have been botched up worse?

 

[Savage]

See? HD is even alienating its few remaining fans with those obnoxious and repetitive on-air promos. Nice marketing strategy: doesn't sell the product. Makes enemies of loyal first-adopters. I could teach a grad-level marketing class using HD Radio as The Ultimate Negative Example.

I've long said that if we want to really improve AM, relax the NRSC bandwidth to 12.5 kHz day, 10 kHz night and mandate C-QUAM and AMaX. And impose receiver standards. The sound would be better than much of what's available on FM these days and the interference would be far less than that caused by HD.

And yes, as rbruce suggests, they ARE pathetic engineers. And crooked ones too. Nice to see them "reap the whirlwind" from their endless lying, technical butcher's-thumb-on-the-scale when it comes to their "interference and coverage studies" and multiple conflicts of interest.

If I had my way there would be a criminal probe of HD Radio. Somebody paid SOMEbody. A lot.

 

[JimmyJames]

If you guys put half the effort into sane, sensible solutions to improve and market something that's out there so it isn't a complete waste, when tons of money has been spent on it, that you do on an HD board ripping HD radio, maybe something productive would happen.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Savage said:

I've long said that if we want to really improve AM, relax the NRSC bandwidth to 12.5 kHz day, 10 kHz night and mandate C-QUAM and AMaX. And impose receiver standards. The sound would be better than much of what's available on FM these days and the interference would be far less than that caused by HD.

I believe that Savage's suggestion qualifies as what JimmyJames calls

sane, sensible solutions to improve and market something that's out there so it isn't a complete waste

 

[Savage]

Aha! Methinks I hear the sweet musical sounds of an HD proponent! Greetings to Jimmy wayyyy over there in the lonely part of the room! "How's that HD thing working out for ya??"

It's so telling. HD critics take on the system. Pro-HD people attack the critics.

Gee....small wonder the system is dying. If the innumerable technical faults and consumer disinterest doesn't kill it, the nastiness and arrogance of the pro-HD faction drives away the few people who might have an interest in considering it.

Nobody likes dogma when it comes to innovation. Human nature is to be skeptical. You've got to (a) have a reasonably practical and superior improvement to offer and (b) be realistic about how, whether or when it could be adopted. At the bottom of it all, if its "advantages" aren't real, you're dead in the water.

Want somebody to believe you about HD? Try telling the truth.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Since adjacent channel HD Radio has been approved for both day an night AM, does it make any sense for the FCC to restrict AM analog bandwidth?

Good old unrestricted bandwidth AM always sounded fine on a good radio. It still does on part 15 and carrier current stations that don't have to abide by analog bandwidth restrictions. Those brick wall and sharp cutoff filters constrict the sound severely and sound unnatural. HD AM's analog 5kHz bandwith does not sound much better then POTS telephone quality.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

If you guys put half the effort into sane, sensible solutions to improve and market something that's out there so it isn't a complete waste, when tons of money has been spent on it, that you do on an HD board ripping HD radio, maybe something productive would happen.

Well, Jimmy, at this point - if I were an executive at a company manufacturing HD radios, I think I would have to be thinking about how to cut my losses and get out. The best possible scenario is to sell HD radios to a small, but devoted group of fanatics of the iBiquity system - perhaps warehousing them for a few years hoping that the value would go up among enthusiasts enough to recover my costs of manufacturing. I would also think about selling the inventory to a re-seller and getting pennies on the dollar as opposed to losing everything. Is DAK still around? There is also the scrap metal market, probably 2 cents on the dollar to simply grind the things up to get precious metal.

I've been watching the "Pitchmen" on Discovery channel. They test market each new idea, and see what the return on investment is. If in an initial test they generated more revenue - usually 2 to 3 times the revenue - than what it took to produce and market the product, then it is a go for mass production. Otherwise, they cut loose of the invention immediately. Under that scenario, HD would have been dead and buried years ago, and a lot of people wouldn't have lost their shirts on it - stations and consumers. The argument that a lot of money has been spent on it is valueless - it was a poor investment, and people that invested in it made bad decisions. The government simply cannot bail out everybody that makes poor investment decisions. Years ago - I advised the head of Radio Disney that this was a poor investment. They chose to ignore me and have sunk millions into the technology on their network - for what? Little kids that can't afford HD radios, sure couldn't get them to work if they could, and parents who won't buy such an extravagant radio for a little kid and don't understand the technology at all. In the mean time, Radio Disney could have been selling re-branded C-Quam receivers from the Eastern rim for $20 to kids, they would sound great, and the broadband stereo would sound just fine over a broad reception range.

I've also watched the "Mythbusters". One episode had them polishing animal poop. They made a couple of samples look really pretty, but in the end it was still animal poop - it smelled like animal poop and crumbled like animal poop regardless of how it looked on the outside. If you wanted to make HD radio a success, you needed something better than animal poop on the inside. The system is faulty, over priced, and too power hungry. It is just not practical no matter how good you think it sounds. It is like animal poop - the technology stinks and its range crumbles a few miles from the tower. Unless you are a highly trained DX'er with special antennas and equipment - exactly the type of person the pro-HD crowd loves to ridicule and marginalize.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

duplicated post due to internet hangups - sorry

 

[JimmyJames]

Bruce:

I still personally believe that one area HD could survive in is in public or noncommercial radio. A lot of public radio stations have loyal donors and a certain credibility with their audience that could persuade sales of HD radios through the NPR store or other program.

Since public stations often have more programs than space on the main channel, there could be supplementary channels with alternate schedules, more programs, BBC/International news, or specialized music. I suppose religious stations could also, with split formats including CCM, Christian CHR, or traditional/gospel music that could be sold through their mailing list or fund drives. Since many noncommercial stations operate with a degree of institutional funding or grant money, this might also be a help in producing more channels.

 

[landtuna]

The latest HD radio commercial from Best Buy ---

It talks about how there are riots and water cannons as people rush to buy JVC car radios with HD. --- THEY WISH!!!!

Anyone else read this and think immediately of WKRP? "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!" ;D

 

[Savage]

Jimmy, no question that NPR has the closest thing HD has to a "killer app" (and I'm talking here about the FM flavor, not HD-AM which is pointless and worthless IMO). The multicasting function was actually developed and pushed by NPR, not iBiquity which in its infinite cluelessness didn't conceive of the concept.

Many NPR station are using the HD-FM subs to redistribute profitable AM talk products like "All Things Considered." The AM signals owned by NPR local affiliates are often signal-challenged, especially at night, so the stations can distribute the radios either through their merchandising "stores" and websites or give them away as pledge-drive premiums.

But again, the technical limitations keep fouling the stew. There are the coverage problems, the time-sync problems, and the poor penetration of the HD subchannels - an ironic fault for what is supposed to be a "solution" to sister-AM station coverage problems. It is likewise ironic for NPR stations to put classical music - a prestige format but not a moneymaker - on an HD sub where 32 kbps affords an audio quality not much better than AM. Kind of negates the "quality" image pubcasters like to promulgate.

And if many stations implement -10dBc digital, adjacent-channel problems are going to be serious - alienating NPR, one of HD's most ardent supporters to date.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Since public stations often have more programs than space on the main channel, there could be supplementary channels with alternate schedules, more programs, BBC/International news, or specialized music. I suppose religious stations could also, with split formats including CCM, Christian CHR, or traditional/gospel music that could be sold through their mailing list or fund drives. Since many noncommercial stations operate with a degree of institutional funding or grant money, this might also be a help in producing more channels.

I think everybody agrees that HD-2 is the only aspect of HD radio that is compelling. The problem I have with it is that it drops to dead silence when the signal drops out. That could prove to be too annoying for the average listener.

Don't count on Christian stations being smart enough to offer alternative programming. They are so busy distributing their bland mix of "holy" music they wouldn't touch Christian CHR or rock. Not around Houston at least ---- what a radio desert!!!! If you want oldies - or Christian CHR - or Christian rock - hit the road jack, nobody wants to play it for you.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

I think everybody agrees that HD-2 is the only aspect of HD radio that is compelling. The problem I have with it is that it drops to dead silence when the signal drops out. That could prove to be too annoying for the average listener.

It COULD be compelling, if:

1) Broadcasters would find some content for the HD2s that would actually be worth listening to (even in Boston, that Irish channel just isn't cutting it), and
2) Broadcasters would pay the same attention to HD2s that they pay to any other audio transmission they're responsible for. There are altogether too many reports of HD secondaries being off the air for days or weeks at a time, and no one at the station is even monitoring them to find out that they're off.