I recently had a discussion with the son of a close family friend at my church who wants to get into radio, and I never thought I would tell someone this, but I told him not to do it. I explained the current state of the industry, and suggested that if he is determined to get into the business, to get into sales or I.T., but have some sort of business degree to fall back on. I kinda felt sick to my stomach saying that, but it has become apparent to me that what I told him was absolutely true. Radio and Newspapers are going down the same road, and it looks like in due time that both will become obsolete. So sad. :-\
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I never thought I would tell someone this...
- Thread starter classic1
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badstevie
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Good advice. I wonder about all these kids in high school and college radio programs. Or worse, the people who sign up for "radio schools." Are they all being told that they can have careers in radio if they just take all these classes? And do high schools really need radio programs now anyway? Is this like taking classes to learn to build cathode ray tubes?
classic1 said:
Okay, now. Do the kid a favor and pull him aside this Sunday after church and tell him you're an idiot.
Let's start with the fact that, despite all the gloom-and-doom you read on this board... and/or your own personal experience... radio is extremely healthy relative to U.S. business in general, and will likely continue to be throughout the young man's adult life. Consider...
92 percent weekly usage (cume rating)... 78 percent daily usage--enormous reach. Minimal erosion over the past decade, despite emergence of all these digital/"new media" options. Think for a minute: you don't see CD players anymore--that's what they've killed, not radio! Radio has a long, positive future.
I run a half-dozen radio stations in towns of 3,000 to 8,000--all non-rated "rust belt" markets. As a GM ("market manager") I earn a healthy six-figure yearly income (and, no, I don't own the company... just an employee)--in a nation where the median individual earnings are $40,000. I'll be retiring within a few years, and someone will need to replace me. Maybe it will be your friend's son.
My eight sales people all earn between $50,000 (remember--the $40K U.S. median) and $100,000 a year--in tiny towns--so they live very, very well. And for the first quarter of 2010, our sales are running 15 percent ahead of last year--with two weeks left in the quarter! Radio is "Red Hot" (again).
I teach media courses as an adjunct at one of the Big Ten universities, so I'm always having this conversation with the Communications majors. I also have two daughters--both with master's degrees--making a terrific living in broadcasting (no, not working for me or this company), and enjoying every minute of it. It's an exciting business!
No, I'm not trying to talk youngsters out of radio. I'm pointing out the tremendous opportunities in radio and encouraging them to take advantage.
As someone with an outside (not inside the industry) view I think you both have good points. But as I read both posts I believe clarification is in order.
The OP advised the newbie not to "get into radio" but did not specify in what capacity. If someone told me they wanted to "get into radio" I would naturally think of someone either being on-air or one of the on-air support positions. I would not think of management, ownership, engineering or sales.
If the newbie meant getting into an on-air position then I think the words of wisdom were well founded based upon what I've read on these boards over the past year and what I've seen in real stations in my market.
If the newbie meant "in the radio industry" (as opposed to "on-air") then I think listener66 has good advice.
Clearly though, the newbie's intent needs to be defined further.
The OP advised the newbie not to "get into radio" but did not specify in what capacity. If someone told me they wanted to "get into radio" I would naturally think of someone either being on-air or one of the on-air support positions. I would not think of management, ownership, engineering or sales.
If the newbie meant getting into an on-air position then I think the words of wisdom were well founded based upon what I've read on these boards over the past year and what I've seen in real stations in my market.
If the newbie meant "in the radio industry" (as opposed to "on-air") then I think listener66 has good advice.
Clearly though, the newbie's intent needs to be defined further.
Radiolistener66, why would you call me an idiot when it is obvious that you only read the first two lines and came up with your own conclusion. If you would have read the entire posting, I told the young man, who wants to be a "DJ", as he put it, that he would have a longer career if he went into the sales or IT side of our business. I explained to him that many, many stations are going to automation, or, in the case of Clear Channel, using talent for more than one station in more than one market. I explained that being a talent is not the way to go in this business anymore, and that he would be smart if he had a business degree to fall back on in case his career in radio never takes off. So instead of calling me names, maybe re-read my full posting, then if you still think I am an "Idiot" than that's your opinion.
radiolistener66 said:
Out of curiosity I went to the archives and read every message you have ever posted in these forums.
This message you posted in this thread is spoken with a different voice than everything else you have ever written here. That is your privilege. (If anyone ever went back and read everything I have posted, they might ask me: "Who the hell are you anyway!" So I don't begrudge you having an opinion that might be a bit new for you.)
But if you indeed occupy the position now that you claim, and you are good at it, I am glad that traditional retirement age is just around the corner for you.... for if you had another 20 years to go in this business I think you would be trembling in your boots about your own future, much less that of a young person contemplating selecting an educational track for maximizing his/her career over the next 40 to 45 years.
A FEW people are going to do well in radio for a number of years. (A lot of people are going to be ruthlessly flushed down the toilet by radio. That has ALWAYS been true.) The truth is that at age 20 or so, we have no way of knowing if we have the right combination of talent, focus and street smarts to make it in radio because we don't know what radio will look like 13 or 26 years from now.
I certainly wish someone had given me "the Dutch-uncle talk" that the originator of this thread gave his young friend. I wish I had gone through an educational process that maximized my choices 5, 10, 20 years later.
How many of us got into this business wanting to be salesmen? Used car salesmen have made
big money too. I never had a desire for any of this. Love of broadcasting is the reason many of
us got into this field.
big money too. I never had a desire for any of this. Love of broadcasting is the reason many of
us got into this field.
I heard this sad assessment of radio's future IN radio engineering school in 1981.
I am qualified to be a station engineer, but as the FCC was dropping the First Class, we were told that if you had come to this school
really liking radio, you had better find some other electronics-based career, because it was then too late, even at that point, the idea of simple equipment replacement was beginning to win out over paying someone to understand and fix old equipment.
I would advise someone who really wants to be on the air to find a college with a radio station "in" their communications department,
but beware that radio is a "cake walk" game, where every time the music stops playing there are 50 fewer jobs in the industry, and if you're willing to have that nipping at your heels and career, go for it. Otherwise find some other way to satisfy that itch, as I do with my part 15 AM.
I am qualified to be a station engineer, but as the FCC was dropping the First Class, we were told that if you had come to this school
really liking radio, you had better find some other electronics-based career, because it was then too late, even at that point, the idea of simple equipment replacement was beginning to win out over paying someone to understand and fix old equipment.
I would advise someone who really wants to be on the air to find a college with a radio station "in" their communications department,
but beware that radio is a "cake walk" game, where every time the music stops playing there are 50 fewer jobs in the industry, and if you're willing to have that nipping at your heels and career, go for it. Otherwise find some other way to satisfy that itch, as I do with my part 15 AM.
There are many ways to use that talent and ability to communicate that don't require being someone else's employee, sitting behind someone else's control board and playing the hits, as determined by someone else. And yes, you can even make money in what we call New Media. There was this huge convention in Austin this past week where all the movers and shakers in New Media were.
Everyone has some good points, depending on perspective.
Yes, IT and sales are good fields, but certainly not limited to radio. Are there really many IT jobs in radio?
No, not everyone who has an interest in radio wants to be a jock/anchor/sportscaster. But many salespeople, sales managers, and general managers start on-air and eventually find their way to the other side of the building.
Still, major market jock/anchor/sportscaster gigs can pay in the millions--of dollars. Still. Those jobs are not going to disappear immediately.
Getting a degree, whether in business or broadcasting or agriculture or something, is just common sense in today's world. A bachelor's degree in 2010 is equivalent to a high school diploma in 1970. Attempting to make a living without at least a bachelor's degree over the next several decades is very risky. Not impossible, mind you (see Bill Gates & LeBron James). Just difficult.
I do believe that the notion that radio is on the verge of death is hyperbole.
For those who disagree, I would be very interested in knowing your best guess as to the year you expect all AM & FM stations to be silent.
2020? 2030? 2040? 2050? Seriously, what do you really think?
Yes, IT and sales are good fields, but certainly not limited to radio. Are there really many IT jobs in radio?
No, not everyone who has an interest in radio wants to be a jock/anchor/sportscaster. But many salespeople, sales managers, and general managers start on-air and eventually find their way to the other side of the building.
Still, major market jock/anchor/sportscaster gigs can pay in the millions--of dollars. Still. Those jobs are not going to disappear immediately.
Getting a degree, whether in business or broadcasting or agriculture or something, is just common sense in today's world. A bachelor's degree in 2010 is equivalent to a high school diploma in 1970. Attempting to make a living without at least a bachelor's degree over the next several decades is very risky. Not impossible, mind you (see Bill Gates & LeBron James). Just difficult.
I do believe that the notion that radio is on the verge of death is hyperbole.
For those who disagree, I would be very interested in knowing your best guess as to the year you expect all AM & FM stations to be silent.
2020? 2030? 2040? 2050? Seriously, what do you really think?
classic1 said:
My apologies. I did indeed misread your reference to sales or IT.
But I will stand by the overall sentiment. Although radio has been affected by the recession like all industries, and some stations and companies have been hit particularly hard, radio's overall health is not dire.
With the exception of some extraordinarily talented air performers, those in sales and management have always made the best living.
And very few performers can tell whether they fall into that extraordinary category without first giving it a try.
It really depends on your expectations. My view, and I tell college kids in broadcasting programs this every chance I get, that if you're expecting to go into radio, work an on-air shift for a few hours a day, collect a comfortable salary with benefits, and stay in the job until you retire, then those jobs don't exist. Or they won't exist very soon. Especially if your goal is to play music on the radio. That is a dying area. Within the next ten years, radio will be mainly news, talk, and sports.
But if you feel you have a unique talent, are willing to invest your own time in developing it, build a fan base the way recording artists do, and then seek to broaden your audience with a wide range of media, then by all means do it. Those opportunities exist. But they're not salaried jobs with clearly stated hours and benefits.
If you want hourly work with salary and benefits, go to the mall or an office. Radio work is not that kind of work. I think too many people got into it 20 years ago thinking that's what it was. They're discovering now that they were not well prepared for what radio is becoming. But most of the schools where I speak have advanced multi-media programs where students learn all about creating content across multiple platforms, and for those kinds of students, there will be work.
But if you feel you have a unique talent, are willing to invest your own time in developing it, build a fan base the way recording artists do, and then seek to broaden your audience with a wide range of media, then by all means do it. Those opportunities exist. But they're not salaried jobs with clearly stated hours and benefits.
If you want hourly work with salary and benefits, go to the mall or an office. Radio work is not that kind of work. I think too many people got into it 20 years ago thinking that's what it was. They're discovering now that they were not well prepared for what radio is becoming. But most of the schools where I speak have advanced multi-media programs where students learn all about creating content across multiple platforms, and for those kinds of students, there will be work.
amfmxm said:
If I have any anger in life, any ill will, it is about the well meaning people who gave me flawed advice about the issues of earning a living and building a career. They meant well... but some of them should have just kept quiet. The place of education is indeed critical for young people.
Here is my guess on this subject of the demise or success of radio broadcasting. We are going to be surprised how quickly some stations disappear like a melting iceberg in global warming. Out of desperation a broker called me early this week to pitch a metro daytime. The price has been cut roughly in half in the past 18 to 24 months. If I had cash sitting around, the most I would offer for the station is 10% of the current asking price. That station is likely to go silent soon. I have pondered the station all week and if I had the cash sitting around, I am not creative enough to know what should be done with the turkey. Bad geography. No critical mass in demographics.
Then I read a thread here in Radio-Info about a comparable station up north that is about to disappear like an iceberg because there is no buyer with a vision or dream to make it work. A careless thinker would at this point proclaim "The whole industry will be gone in 10 years."
Hold the phone. There are stations with good geography, good demographics, a thriving business community, a good frequency and power allocation. There is a lot of complaining about ownership and management that are overly focused on the so-called "bean counter" mentality. We overlook the people in broadcasting who are driven by a passion for the business. These are the kind of people who have pulled broadcasting through tough times before. The people who are operating "poster child examples" today. We are going to still see radio stations "humming like a top" 30 and 40 years from now. What we cannot predict with accuracy: will the census, the head count of stations be 90% of what we have now, 70%? 50%, 30% or maybe only 17% of what we have now? That may be the legitimate question to try to answer.
We probably can not come up with a trusted answer, but the very process of the discussion and the debate will teach some of us what we must do to have a chance of being one of the survivors.
I wonder what would happen if one of these small private companies operating several radio stations went under. Would anyone buy WCBK, WSDM, WIFE, WRAY, WCVL if they were on the market? In the current market, I don't think so. In some future market, who knows? These types of stations have always been hard to sell, look at how few owners most of them have had.
PTBoardOp94 said:
If the primary purpose of radio stations is to buy and sell them... to speculate in ownership value, then your sentence might be valid.
If the primary purpose of radio stations is to operate them for long-term year-in-year out operating profits, then your statement might mean the owners are unwilling to sell them and maybe there is a long line of people ready to buy them if they come up for sale.
Since small private companies tend not to reveal very much information about their operations, we are left to guess about the viability and marketability of these little stations.
As standalone AM's I'd expect a lot of them to go under. However, most of the stations mentioned have FMs and they'll be around for awhile. There are plenty of stations who have had the same owner for years and it doesn't mean no one has been willing to buy them; no doubt during the feeding frenzy of consolodation someone, or several someones, showed up at the doorstep, checkbook in hand.
When will we see stations going dark on a massive scale? I don't see the majority of now-profitable FMs going under anytime soon, but I could see some AM's going dark within the next 10 years...even the larger ones. Music will not completely dissapear from the dial...not everyone has time to program their custom playlist every day, for every trip to the store, etc. I think the "I will not listen, even for one minute, to ANYTHING I did not personally download under any circumstances whatsoever" crowd is a little over represented here on good old R-I.
When will we see stations going dark on a massive scale? I don't see the majority of now-profitable FMs going under anytime soon, but I could see some AM's going dark within the next 10 years...even the larger ones. Music will not completely dissapear from the dial...not everyone has time to program their custom playlist every day, for every trip to the store, etc. I think the "I will not listen, even for one minute, to ANYTHING I did not personally download under any circumstances whatsoever" crowd is a little over represented here on good old R-I.
I buy radio advertising now - and, sold it in Indy for over 20 years - and, I am here to testify that there are fewer desks and chairs in EVERY department - sales, programming, ops, engineering. Sales staffs, on average are 40-50% smaller than just 10 years ago. Fact: I was one of 12 reps - and, we all made good money...some, earned monster-cash. Today, that station has 6 reps - burried in paperwork, reports and video-teleconferences with group management. And, all earning 20-40% less than their average years.
RAB radio-use statistics notwithstanding, it's an industry in a death spiral - unless it reinvents itself rapidly. Just ask a 12-24 year old kid what role radio plays in their life and most will give you a blank stare. It's a delivery system that they don't need and won't use.
Those kids are the future 25-54 money-demos....and, in 2022, they simply won't be there - listening to terestrial radio, that is.
RAB radio-use statistics notwithstanding, it's an industry in a death spiral - unless it reinvents itself rapidly. Just ask a 12-24 year old kid what role radio plays in their life and most will give you a blank stare. It's a delivery system that they don't need and won't use.
Those kids are the future 25-54 money-demos....and, in 2022, they simply won't be there - listening to terestrial radio, that is.
O
Onesimus
Guest
The only thing that can save radio is localization. It's an inferior music delivery platform. Once internet radio is widely available in cars (as it is in large parts of Europe), radio will become irrelevant. It's really sad.
Onesimus said:
For the most part, radio still is very localized. Far more localized than TV. And it hasn't helped. The only things local that matter to the public are weather and traffic. Everything else is up for grabs. Howard Stern proved that you don't have to be local to win.
As for the European comparison, the bigger issue with internet distribution is bandwidth and cost. With all of radio's troubles, it is still more efficient and cheaper than broadband. Kurt Hanson had an article on his blog about this yesterday.
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