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If a new CHR were to come to Gainesville

This is my ultimate dream for this market but... what would your thoughts be for the best signal for a new CHR to be on?

It would have to cover ALL of Gainesville perfectly to go up against KISS effectively. I believe there is room and it's possible, but it would HAVE to be done right.

Think AMP in LA or NOW in NYC... with non-stop promotions, billboards, RTS bus wraps, being out and about nearly every day of the week.

I would think perhaps WXJZ or WBXY.... since they are already in town and cover it very well (especially XJZ)

I'd love to hear what you think!
 
Not only would you have to cover all of Gainesville, you'd have to cover all of Ocala. If not, you'd suffer the same fate that WYKS has had to contend with since the market combined in 1992. Agencies won't buy 3-4 shares in markets that size, which is the best you can do when you do not have a marketable signal in the southern half of the market.

About the only way I see this happening is if Asterisk were to combine 99.5/LaCrosse with the new 99.7/Silver Springs Shores. Or, if they were to sell 99.5 to whomever owns the 99.7CP. Which may not be a bad idea, since Asterisk cannot seem to make any real impact with 99.5.
 
I think WKZY 106.9 is already trying it... Not successful.
 
Not a bad idea, but XL 1067 had decent numbers in the last book into Gainesville/Ocala. Not sure how that happened when KZY 1069 is right next to them. That KZY signal must be weak for XL 1067 to pull in decent numbers. Why doesn't WAPE 95.1 in Jax pull in better numbers in Gainesville? Huge stick, and a heritage CHR, decent signal to Gainesville, gotta be better than XL's stick.

Not sure if Gainesville/Ocala can support a CHR, as you noted the signal appears to be a real challenge. Poor WYKS. They had a nice book, when was the last time KISS 105.3 beat Rock 104? Never? Go Gillen go!!!!!
 
Back before the market combined (when Gainesville was rated as a market by itself), did WMMZ (Z-93) ever beat KISS 105 (then on 105.5) in Gainesville?

My guess is no. But I didn't arrive in the market until May, 1991, so I'm not sure.
 
WAPE would do better if it were Gainesville alone... you don't see big numbers for APE for the same reason you don't see big numbers for KISS, a station already in the market. The market is WAY too big... you get past Gainesville and APE is wiped out... an LPFM on 95.1 out west doesn't help either.

You would have to TRY (manually) to get APE outside of town... someone hitting scan wouldn't find it.... and that's what matters. I have been able to get APE as far as Wildwood... but I knew what I was listening for.

The average listener doesn't. APE could careless anyway, they do plenty well in Jax... that's all that matters.
 
I remember when Gainesville's best rated Top 40 station was WGGG and WAKA (14K). When I worked at Kiss 105.5 we busted our tails, had great ownership, great jocks and tons of fun. The imaging wasn't the greatest but we were on the streets all the time, in clubs, malls, campus, everywhere. Then the dial matured, now every viable format has a home in Gainesville/Ocala. I still think the market is too small to warrant another CHR. What concerns me is that all these LPFM's or stations that don't have the Class C power, or the HAAT will never be able to reach their peak. This market is dominated by 93.7, a station that has a signal from I-10 in Jacksonville to south of I-4 in Orlando. As you so aptly pointed out, if a new CHR were to emerge, they need flawless execution of the format and God forbid, they need a great signal!!!!
 
vadar said:
I remember when Gainesville's best rated Top 40 station was WGGG and WAKA (14K). When I worked at Kiss 105.5 we busted our tails, had great ownership, great jocks and tons of fun. The imaging wasn't the greatest but we were on the streets all the time, in clubs, malls, campus, everywhere. Then the dial matured, now every viable format has a home in Gainesville/Ocala. I still think the market is too small to warrant another CHR. What concerns me is that all these LPFM's or stations that don't have the Class C power, or the HAAT will never be able to reach their peak. This market is dominated by 93.7, a station that has a signal from I-10 in Jacksonville to south of I-4 in Orlando. As you so aptly pointed out, if a new CHR were to emerge, they need flawless execution of the format and God forbid, they need a great signal!!!!


Wow! I haven't heard 14K mentioned in many years. I still have a faded 14K shirt and some gold embossed letterhead somewhere. Joe Schwartzel was a good guy to work for and we sure had a lot of fun, trying in vain to beat up WGGG. When I later worked for WGGG, it was never quite as much fun as the old 14K.

I suspect it would be hard to unseat WYKS. Not that they do a great job, but they have been here, doing the same basic format since 1982 or 1983. They are reasonably well plugged into the Gainesville community. To supplant WYKS, you would need to spend lots of money on talent and promotion. Even then, you would probably only split the ratings, so it would then be a war of attrition. The player willing to loose money for the longest will be the winner.

It's probably not worth the effort, unless you're an Asterisk or a Pamel and you just want to play the spoiler role. If you split WYKS's numbers, then your other properties might move up a notch and you have something that you can bundle for advertisers, too. So, my guess is that is the way it might eventually happen.
 
MN Maniac said:
Back before the market combined (when Gainesville was rated as a market by itself), did WMMZ (Z-93) ever beat KISS 105 (then on 105.5) in Gainesville?

My guess is no. But I didn't arrive in the market until May, 1991, so I'm not sure.

WMMZ "Z 93" did, indeed beat Kiss 105 a few times back in 1987 when the antenna was moved to the "BIG" stick in Anthony. WMMZ first went on the air on September 16, 1986, having transformed from adult contemporary WFUZ. I was a part of the original WMMZ staff from 1987 through 1988. Our main competition, however, was not WYKS, but rather WNFI "I 100". At that time WNFI was throwing a big signal into Ocala AND Gainesville and was doing pretty well in the ratings... Our strategy at WMMZ was to become the "BIG BOY" in town being local and having the strongest signal in Ocala and Gainesville which was actually stronger and wider reaching than WYKS and WNFI. Our tower was (and still is) 1,347 feet located approximately 6-miles North of Ocala in a small community known as Anthony. The tower site is actually located on a former farm just outside of that community.

Mark Tillery
J. M. Tillery & Associates, P. A.
[email protected]
 
Kmagrill said:
vadar said:
I remember when Gainesville's best rated Top 40 station was WGGG and WAKA (14K). When I worked at Kiss 105.5 we busted our tails, had great ownership, great jocks and tons of fun. The imaging wasn't the greatest but we were on the streets all the time, in clubs, malls, campus, everywhere. Then the dial matured, now every viable format has a home in Gainesville/Ocala. I still think the market is too small to warrant another CHR. What concerns me is that all these LPFM's or stations that don't have the Class C power, or the HAAT will never be able to reach their peak. This market is dominated by 93.7, a station that has a signal from I-10 in Jacksonville to south of I-4 in Orlando. As you so aptly pointed out, if a new CHR were to emerge, they need flawless execution of the format and God forbid, they need a great signal!!!!


Wow! I haven't heard 14K mentioned in many years. I still have a faded 14K shirt and some gold embossed letterhead somewhere. Joe Schwartzel was a good guy to work for and we sure had a lot of fun, trying in vain to beat up WGGG. When I later worked for WGGG, it was never quite as much fun as the old 14K.

I suspect it would be hard to unseat WYKS. Not that they do a great job, but they have been here, doing the same basic format since 1982 or 1983. They are reasonably well plugged into the Gainesville community. To supplant WYKS, you would need to spend lots of money on talent and promotion. Even then, you would probably only split the ratings, so it would then be a war of attrition. The player willing to loose money for the longest will be the winner.

It's probably not worth the effort, unless you're an Asterisk or a Pamel and you just want to play the spoiler role. If you split WYKS's numbers, then your other properties might move up a notch and you have something that you can bundle for advertisers, too. So, my guess is that is the way it might eventually happen.


Former WMFQ Ocala Operations Manager Shawn Smith became the program director at WAKA in 1978, and it was Smith who initially transformed WAKA from a beautiful music station to a format known as "Album Music" with the moniker "14K". Sometime in 1980 14K transformed to CHR. That format only lasted about a year before Joe MacKay was brought in to transform 14K into Adult Radio AM 14 WKGR with a format flip to adult contemporary. WGGG was sold by Miller Broadcasting to U. S. Broadcasting around this time and its format was flipped from Top 40 to oldies based adult contemporary...I was assistant program director at WGGG while attending UF in the early 80s. I never could get a job at 14K, but "Boomer" Hough, who was Program Director and morning personality at WGGG, liked me and gave me a job at the Super G. It was fun while it lasted. I eventually left for Daytona Beach upon graduation, working at the Mighty "Q" on Root Street in Daytona.

Mark Tillery
J. M. Tillery & Associates, P. A.
[email protected]
 
DJ Mo said:
I think WKZY 106.9 is already trying it... Not successful.

The best thing Pamal can do with WKZY is to increase its tower to the maximum 981 feet for a class C1 and remain at 100kw. This will greatly improve its signal by filling in a few nulls while also creating an improved signal towards Ocala. The next thing to do is change the format away from music and initiate a talk format, going head-to-head with WSKY... I don't believe a second CHR is a viable format in any market... However, if WKZY is to succeed with a music format, they will have to implement more personality into the format with live announcers... This means being live during the night-time hours in addition to day programming... This is one reason (but not the only one) that talk radio succeeds so well. It's personality radio which, for the most part, is one main ingrediant that is missing in today's radio...

Mark Tillery
J. M. Tillery & Associates, P. A.
[email protected]
 
What sort of talk would you suggest for KZY? WSKY and WBXY are already running talk and have a large amount of the "big boys" on the air.

I would agree with the notion of raising KZY to 981 feet.
 
The main problem with raising the tower height for WKZY is securing local zoning permission. My second hand sources tell me that this has been tried several times, and local opposition always prevents granting a height increase for WKZY. WKZY's signal is very marginal in Gainesville and useless in Ocala. It's pretty much a waste of 100kW. After the last attempt to secure zoning approval a few years ago, I wondered aloud why they didn't just take the county to Federal court, but I was told that the owners thought they might do more damage to their business reputation that way than they would by having a marginal signal.

Mark, when did you work at WGGG? I was at 14K with Shawn Smith (and his wife Marylin) in 1979 and stayed on when Laura Seitz (aka Christy Fox) became the top 40 program director in 1980. Her boyfriend at the time was Joe MacKay, but while he pulled Laura's strings behind the scenes, was not on the payroll as far as I know. A young Jeri Banta, who had been working overnights at CK101, was hired to do afternoon drive. I jumped from WAKA to WGGG in 1980 or early '81 doing overnights and, eventually middays until 1982, but then went back to UF to finish my B.S. degree.
 
ThatGuyOnTheRadio said:
What sort of talk would you suggest for KZY? WSKY and WBXY are already running talk and have a large amount of the "big boys" on the air.

I would agree with the notion of raising KZY to 981 feet.

To: That Radio Guy.

I will be very happy to share with you a complete synopsis of a viable talk radio format for WKZY or any FM station in the Gainesville/Ocala market if you are willing to A) sign a notorized Non Dislocusre agreement, and; B) pay me a standard consulting fee for the information. Since I have no idea who you are or whether or not you are a Pamal executive, you could pass along the information I've supplied giving Pamal (or anyone else in the market) a financial and ratings advantage in the market place utilizing my services, essentially, free of charge when I normally charge a rather high, but fair, consulting fee for that information. I don't mean to be secretive, however, I have learned the hard way not to be so "free giving" with my strategic plans and ideas...

Mark Tillery
J. M. Tillery & Associates, P. A.
[email protected]
 
Kmagrill said:
The main problem with raising the tower height for WKZY is securing local zoning permission. My second hand sources tell me that this has been tried several times, and local opposition always prevents granting a height increase for WKZY. WKZY's signal is very marginal in Gainesville and useless in Ocala. It's pretty much a waste of 100kW. After the last attempt to secure zoning approval a few years ago, I wondered aloud why they didn't just take the county to Federal court, but I was told that the owners thought they might do more damage to their business reputation that way than they would by having a marginal signal.

Mark, when did you work at WGGG? I was at 14K with Shawn Smith (and his wife Marylin) in 1979 and stayed on when Laura Seitz (aka Christy Fox) became the top 40 program director in 1980. Her boyfriend at the time was Joe MacKay, but while he pulled Laura's strings behind the scenes, was not on the payroll as far as I know. A young Jeri Banta, who had been working overnights at CK101, was hired to do afternoon drive. I jumped from WAKA to WGGG in 1980 or early '81 doing overnights and, eventually middays until 1982, but then went back to UF to finish my B.S. degree.

To: Kyle

I agree that there have been problems in the past with gaining approval for a tower height increase with WKZY. I was told one of the problems is the tower site is within two miles of a private airport, hence, at 981 feet at its current location it would invade the flight paths of incoming and outgoing air travel; therefore it doesn't meet FAA approval. One possible solution would be to move the tower site to one more suitable which is A) free of the various zoning restrictions for a 981 foot tower, and; B) removed from any exsiting or proposed flight patterns. Another possible solution is to downgrade from a C1 to a C2 with a tower move and COL change to a community with no local radio service such as Archer assumming from an engineering prespective such a move is possible. By moving the tower site closer to Gainesville as a C2, the signal should be much more superior than it is currently as a C1 broadcasting from Trenton.

Regarding WGGG and 14K, I was with WGGG in 1982. Although I apologize that I don't remember you, it's most likely that I arrived at WGGG after you had left. I do remember very well Jeri Banta on 14K. He later came over to WGGG doing the PM drive shift; later moving over to nights at WYKS. I also remember Kristy Fox, who was once with WGGG under Boomer when WGGG was Top 40. Joe MacKay was, indeed, program director at WKGR (Post WAKA 14K and pre WMGI Magic 1390) when it became adult contemporary formatted "Adult Radio AM 14". MacKay was also the morning host. MacKay later came over to WGGG as program director and midday host, replacing Mike Bonts. Bonts, who had been the midday host with WAPE Jacksonville, was brought in to replace Boomer as PD although Bommer remained on as morning host. Boomer later left radio to begin a private business as a cruise captain in Jacksonville. I graduated from UF with my MBA and left WGGG shortly after Joe MacKay took over as PD at the "G" and headed over to Daytona Beach to party with "Q" over at 750 Root Street a/k/a "The Oil Tower" as it was known to some of the locals because of the antenna design of the WMFJ tower that was situated in the center of the building.

Shawn Smith and Marylin King both worked in Ocala before joining WAKA. Shawn was Operations Manager of beautiful music formatted WMFQ while Marylin was News Director of sister station WWKE. I think they later married before moving to Gainesville to work for WAKA; Shawn as PD and Marylin as News Director and News Anchor. I always thought 14K had a unigue sound under both formats: "Album Music" under the direction of Smith; and CHR under the direction of Fox.

Mark Tillery
J. M. Tillery & Associates, P. A.
[email protected]
 
jmtillery said:
Kmagrill said:
The main problem with raising the tower height for WKZY is securing local zoning permission. My second hand sources tell me that this has been tried several times, and local opposition always prevents granting a height increase for WKZY. WKZY's signal is very marginal in Gainesville and useless in Ocala. It's pretty much a waste of 100kW. After the last attempt to secure zoning approval a few years ago, I wondered aloud why they didn't just take the county to Federal court, but I was told that the owners thought they might do more damage to their business reputation that way than they would by having a marginal signal.

Mark, when did you work at WGGG? I was at 14K with Shawn Smith (and his wife Marylin) in 1979 and stayed on when Laura Seitz (aka Christy Fox) became the top 40 program director in 1980. Her boyfriend at the time was Joe MacKay, but while he pulled Laura's strings behind the scenes, was not on the payroll as far as I know. A young Jeri Banta, who had been working overnights at CK101, was hired to do afternoon drive. I jumped from WAKA to WGGG in 1980 or early '81 doing overnights and, eventually middays until 1982, but then went back to UF to finish my B.S. degree.

To: Kyle

I agree that there have been problems in the past with gaining approval for a tower height increase with WKZY. I was told one of the problems is the tower site is within two miles of a private airport, hence, at 981 feet at its current location it would invade the flight paths of incoming and outgoing air travel; therefore it doesn't meet FAA approval. One possible solution would be to move the tower site to one more suitable which is A) free of the various zoning restrictions for a 981 foot tower, and; B) removed from any exsiting or proposed flight patterns. Another possible solution is to downgrade from a C1 to a C2 with a tower move and COL change to a community with no local radio service such as Archer assumming from an engineering prespective such a move is possible. By moving the tower site closer to Gainesville as a C2, the signal should be much more superior than it is currently as a C1 broadcasting from Trenton.

Regarding WGGG and 14K, I was with WGGG in 1982. Although I apologize that I don't remember you, it's most likely that I arrived at WGGG after you had left. I do remember very well Jeri Banta on 14K. He later came over to WGGG doing the PM drive shift; later moving over to nights at WYKS. I also remember Kristy Fox, who was once with WGGG under Boomer when WGGG was Top 40. Joe MacKay was, indeed, program director at WKGR (Post WAKA 14K and pre WMGI Magic 1390) when it became adult contemporary formatted "Adult Radio AM 14". MacKay was also the morning host. MacKay later came over to WGGG as program director and midday host, replacing Mike Bonts. Bonts, who had been the midday host with WAPE Jacksonville, was brought in to replace Boomer as PD although Bommer remained on as morning host. Boomer later left radio to begin a private business as a cruise captain in Jacksonville. I graduated from UF with my MBA and left WGGG shortly after Joe MacKay took over as PD at the "G" and headed over to Daytona Beach to party with "Q" over at 750 Root Street a/k/a "The Oil Tower" as it was known to some of the locals because of the antenna design of the WMFJ tower that was situated in the center of the building.

Shawn Smith and Marylin King both worked in Ocala before joining WAKA. Shawn was Operations Manager of beautiful music formatted WMFQ while Marylin was News Director of sister station WWKE. I think they later married before moving to Gainesville to work for WAKA; Shawn as PD and Marylin as News Director and News Anchor. I always thought 14K had a unigue sound under both formats: "Album Music" under the direction of Smith; and CHR under the direction of Fox.

Mark Tillery
J. M. Tillery & Associates, P. A.
[email protected]



Yup, like ships that cross in the night, we never worked at the same stations simultaneously. What's more amazing is that my first job after graduation from UF was as CE for I-100 in 1985-'86, so we were in the same town once again at competing stations.

I believe that WKZY's problem was not FAA approval, on the case that I am familiar with. There may have been other sites that had FAA problems, but I believe that some locations were clear. My older brother, who is a PE and an expert on towers, testified as an expert witness on behalf of WKZY before the zoning board. At the time they had FCC approval and, I believe, also had FAA approval. It's been quite a few years, so I may be foggy on this, but I think that they needed only local approval, but the public outcry from the locals persuaded the zoning board to deny the application. Even though there was a good case for civil action against the board, Pamel decided not to pursue it any further.

I don't believe that they would gain anything by downgrading their class to a C2. Their current tower location is already almost at the maximum distance for city grade coverage of Cross City if they downgraded to a C2. A better solution is to remain a C1 and employ a directional antenna under 73.215. By so doing, they could theoretically move about 10 miles closer to Gainesville and still maintain ample coverage of Cross City. All that range of movement might also afford them an opportunity to find a site where the neighbors wouldn't object so much, and I wouldn't propose it at any time near a local election, either. A C1 located 25 miles from downtown Gainesville would have excellent coverage in Alachua county, but they would always be too far from Ocala to have any real impact there.
 
I forgot to mention in my previous post that WKZY is the only commercial band FM licensed to Cross City, so changing COL right now probably won't be possible. There is a vacant commercial C3 allotment for Cross City, so when that is finally licensed, then a COL change might be possible, however, I heard from some FCC engineers that the new Commission hates the way stations have been pulled from rural areas to service bigger cities. They are determined to stop the drain of stations from rural areas to larger cities and they are going to be changing the COL rules to make it almost impossible to do that in the near future. A freeze is expected to be in place sometime this month.
 
Didn't Pamal propose at one time building a new tower in a different location for WKZY/WHHZ/WDVH-F? I'm not sure if they gave up on that or if it got denied by someone.

P.S. I did check and the application to move the tower shows "Dismissed" in November 2004. I'm not sure what dismissed means in FCC talk.
 
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