If Cumulus Gets Citadel

[BRice16]

How do you know what the billings are for those stations? That is closely guarded information and I question if you have that information.

I don't know exact numbers, just that they more than pay for themselves. The financial success of 104.5 Nashville and 94.5 in Birmingham has been trumpeted in both of those markets and has also been cited in past reports to investors.

Besides, I make that statement, not as a defense for them or to put information out there, but as a general question of what you guys think Cumulus would do in that situation. They slash costs in markets all over, but do they do it mainly on stations where they are barely breaking even? What do they do to stations that are market leaders? Does their formula of removing local talent usually apply to talkers and sports talkers? I don't know, that's why I ask the question.

But instead of discussing the question, we instead choose to jump all over my statement that I believe the stations make money. Typical.

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

How do you know what the billings are for those stations? That is closely guarded information and I question if you have that information.

I don't know exact numbers, just that they more than pay for themselves. The financial success of 104.5 Nashville and 94.5 in Birmingham has been trumpeted in both of those markets and has also been cited in past reports to investors.

Besides, I make that statement, not as a defense for them or to put information out there, but as a general question of what you guys think Cumulus would do in that situation. They slash costs in markets all over, but do they do it mainly on stations where they are barely breaking even? What do they do to stations that are market leaders? Does their formula of removing local talent usually apply to talkers and sports talkers? I don't know, that's why I ask the question.

But instead of discussing the question, we instead choose to jump all over my statement that I believe the stations make money. Typical.

I think Cumulus is going to find ways to save enough money to make the investment worthwhile. Citadel doesn't have the horses to get back to where they were (at least in this town) so it will likely involve squeezing costs.

 

[secondchoice]

How do you know what the billings are for those stations? That is closely guarded information and I question if you have that information.

I don't know exact numbers, just that they more than pay for themselves. The financial success of 104.5 Nashville and 94.5 in Birmingham has been trumpeted in both of those markets and has also been cited in past reports to investors.

Besides, I make that statement, not as a defense for them or to put information out there, but as a general question of what you guys think Cumulus would do in that situation. They slash costs in markets all over, but do they do it mainly on stations where they are barely breaking even? What do they do to stations that are market leaders? Does their formula of removing local talent usually apply to talkers and sports talkers? I don't know, that's why I ask the question.

But instead of discussing the question, we instead choose to jump all over my statement that I believe the stations make money. Typical.

Legally they are separate but in the real world, (Dickey Brothers / Cumulus) has 680 the Fan in (North) Atlanta. 680 has a mixture of local and syndicated and usually beats 790 The Zone around 2 to 1 (except for the “Stews) in the 12+. They do not carry Mike & Mike but have a local morning show. ESPN has been known to “make” stations carry M & M. In Atlanta as in most markets, the exact amount is “secret”* but, It is common knowledge that both stations (680 &790) bill an amazing amount of money.

In most markets, there are ad buyers for agencies who will tell you where the money is going. Local sales people also have a good idea where the money is going.

IMHO Sometimes you can’t cut costs in programming. It will affect billing.

* If you have time to read quarterly reports (especially the CEO’s and CFO’s statements) and can do some mathematical guessing you can figure a clusters's (stations) billing by going back to the quarters before and after that cluster (station) was acquired, then carry figure thru to the present quarter taking into account the additions (or sales) of stations and you have a good guess of what that property is billing. An easy example is when (if) Emmis unloads their Chicago radio stations. That exact amount of revenue will “disappear” from their P & L statement and “appear” on whoever acquires the properties’ P & L.

 

[Tibbs4]

104.5 Facts (for the sake of this bored)

- #1 in the right demos, maybe even 12+ / PPM (info to be released at noon today)
- Local talent (esp. noon and Plaster PM drive) strong. Jim Rome burned out to be replaced by live middays. Brilliant move!
- Still doesn't bill close to the long running top two stations that are owned by the same company that owns a couple in Knoxville. But, it is now probably somwhere in the middle single digits ranking as a biller.
- The Titans/Fisher changes have given them quite the boost and especially this off season. It's easy to understand why they are doing so well, now. Same time next year, will be a lot quieter.
Less chaos with the team.
- Top rated George Plaster was with Crumy and got out of the Nashville fiasco and went to Citadel. What will happen if and when this transgres...I mean transaction goes thru. You guessed it....1/2 the points, less money in the concession stand and sin-dication or a weaker local PM drive team.

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

The Engelbrechts must be licking their chops these days.

 

[BRH]

Don't know what you're smoking, but Citadel Knox and South Central combined probably bills 2 or 3 times the entire Chattanooga market.

.
Not smoking anything. I never said a word about what the stations billed. I simply said which group's stations "sounded" better & which ones sounded stagnant, 10 years behind the times, and boring. I'm sure the Knoxville clusters outbill the Chattanooga ones (duh.., it's a larger market).
But soundwise and qualitywise, it doesnt show. Seems like the Knoxville clusters are slow to improve or change anything. (As I said, the fact that we have no HD2 formats when most markets our size do, is a good example).

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

BRH.... I profess ignorance. What can I get with HD that I can't get otherwise? Furthermore, what can I get with HD that is worth spending the extra money to get?

 

[vchimpanzee]

Well, expect WIVK to be vunerable much more than ever in years. And their reputation took over 40 years to build, and only one boneheaded move by corporate to destroy it. Look for more automation.

It's not impossible. WTQR was going to survive when all that was left on Earth was cockroaches. Now they've been beaten at long last, and they're going downhill from there.

 

[Hundredthousandwatts]

OKAY here we go...last chance to get your cokes and popcorn before the picture show begins...

 

[jetfli]

IF this happens, something I'll be interested to see is how low-budget Cumulus handles Citadel's sports talkers all across the south. 99.1/990 here, 104.5 Nashville 94.5 Birmingham are all live and local all day long (true Finebaum in Bham is syndicated, but it's syndicated from 94.5), and they all bill very well, especially for the clusters they're in. You would assume Cumulus would cut a daypart or two for a national show, but if the time slots are all billing better than what a national show would, I wonder if they would they actually do that? 99.1 and 104.5 have each shown that Jim Rome not only gets bad numbers in each market, but they couldn't sell it at all in either.

I too am concerned about Citadel's sports talkers, mainly because I've seen what Citadel has done to turn them in to what they are today. I'm concerned about the kind of commitment they'd put into bidding for team affiliations, and I'm concerned about the resources they'll put behind the staffs. I've seen how they watered down some of their news/talk stations in the name of greater ROI, and have watched those stations slide in ratings as a result. My hope is that they'd spin their sports stations off into a separate division and operate them separately because of the way they are uniquely different from music stations, but that definitely seems too much to ask for. At any rate, they'd do well to continue the good work Citadel has begun.

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

IF this happens, something I'll be interested to see is how low-budget Cumulus handles Citadel's sports talkers all across the south. 99.1/990 here, 104.5 Nashville 94.5 Birmingham are all live and local all day long (true Finebaum in Bham is syndicated, but it's syndicated from 94.5), and they all bill very well, especially for the clusters they're in. You would assume Cumulus would cut a daypart or two for a national show, but if the time slots are all billing better than what a national show would, I wonder if they would they actually do that? 99.1 and 104.5 have each shown that Jim Rome not only gets bad numbers in each market, but they couldn't sell it at all in either.

I too am concerned about Citadel's sports talkers, mainly because I've seen what Citadel has done to turn them in to what they are today. I'm concerned about the kind of commitment they'd put into bidding for team affiliations, and I'm concerned about the resources they'll put behind the staffs. I've seen how they watered down some of their news/talk stations in the name of greater ROI, and have watched those stations slide in ratings as a result. My hope is that they'd spin their sports stations off into a separate division and operate them separately because of the way they are uniquely different from music stations, but that definitely seems too much to ask for. At any rate, they'd do well to continue the good work Citadel has begun.

10-Noon on The Animal is a paid program. Hopefully that can go as a plus against the Cumulus formula.

 

[boogiecheck]

I for one hope that when and if Cumulus does come into this market they drop the "sports talk" "format" like a bad habit. Those stations would do a far better job of serving the public as something, anything, other than sports talk. If nothing else just to get that screech owl off of the a.m. radio waves.

 

[BRice16]

I for one hope that when and if Cumulus does come into this market they drop the "sports talk" "format" like a bad habit. Those stations would do a far better job of serving the public as something, anything, other than sports talk. If nothing else just to get that screech owl off of the a.m. radio waves.

So because you don't like sports talk no one should be able listen to it?

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

I for one hope that when and if Cumulus does come into this market they drop the "sports talk" "format" like a bad habit. Those stations would do a far better job of serving the public as something, anything, other than sports talk. If nothing else just to get that screech owl off of the a.m. radio waves.

So because you don't like sports talk no one should be able listen to it?

It would leave the market wide open for the first All-Justin-Beiber format.

 

[CoolJazz]

.... drop the "sports talk" "format" like a bad habit. Those stations would do a far better job of serving the public as something, anything, other than sports talk.

What....are you a girlie man or something???? Don't like sports...Why don't you go play dress up with your dolls or something!!

 

[boogiecheck]

It has lower ratings than it had as jazz, urban, AC and even urban AC. It's time to make some money with it and you can't make money with sports talk.

 

[Pratte4Life]

That explains why WFAN was the No. 1 billing station in the country.

 

[secondchoice]

It has lower ratings than it had as jazz, urban, AC and even urban AC. It's time to make some money with it and you can't make money with sports talk.

When we see in the ratings (12+), we do not get a breakdown of the “money” demographics. Atlanta has 2 sports talkers, always in the bottom half of the ratings, and still both bill over a million a month. If you are an advertiser (beer, strip club or sports bar, Viagra, pickup trucks etc.) and want to cost effectively reach men, you have to seriously consider a sport talk station or in a smaller market, sponsoring any kind of sports college or professional sports.

The Sports industry is a multi billion dollar business. ESPN is traditionally the most expensive channel (programming fee wise) for the cable operators. My local cable company charges more for the 25 a day ESPN local commercial package than the 25 a day on every news channel: CNN, HLN, FOX News, and MSNBC package. Even in this “bad” economy, the cable company will not let you on ESPN without taking another package. Local monopolies can do this. Local sales at a sports talk station (unless you have to sell the other stations in a cluster too) is a very stable job in radio.

 

[boogiecheck]

That explains why WFAN was the No. 1 billing station in the country.

They don't program every time slot with shameless UT cheerleading. They actually cover sports.

When we see in the ratings (12+), we do not get a breakdown of the “money” demographics.

Speak for yourself. I see the complete breakdown.

 

[secondchoice]

That explains why WFAN was the No. 1 billing station in the country.

They don't program every time slot with shameless UT cheerleading. They actually cover sports.

When we see in the ratings (12+), we do not get a breakdown of the “money” demographics.

Speak for yourself. I see the complete breakdown.

I will have to contact you when there is a ratings question. I guess I have been "out" for too many years. The last ratings I saw was the Fall 1995 Cincinnatti book. I do get some Atlanta info from a nephew that sells for an area Atlanta station.