IF Telecom hadn't been enacted......

[jas2525]

You have this theory, unfortunately, you're apparently limited breadth of experience has prevented you from seeing the whole picutre resulting from Telecom.

You don't know what my experience is. Calling my experience "limited" because I don't agree with you is a pompous and arrogant thing to say. I've made very clear and factual posts, and you've ignored them. I've asked you to respond to specific facts, and you've ignored them. And then you attack my knowledge and experience. That leads me to believe you simply don't want to admit or believe that there is a different point of view on this issue.

I have explained to you repeatedly that I have witnessed a direct cause and effect post-Telecom, yet, because you have not personally observed such a thing, it is therefore unimaginable.

It's nice to hear that in your corner of the world, Telecom has had no negative effect on competitiveness and the quality it often breeds. I wish that could be said for the rest of the radio universe.

 

[TheBigA]

because you have not personally observed such a thing, it is therefore unimaginable.

You don't know what I've "personally observed," and apparently aren't interested.

All I can say is that there is no single radio company that owns every radio station in any market, and there is still a lot of competition every day. In fact just this weekend, Radio One announced it will launch an FM News station in Houston next month. Randy Michaels just launched FM News stations in NY and Chicago. And there are lots of news and news/talk stations popping up every day in markets all across the country.

 

[jas2525]

because you have not personally observed such a thing, it is therefore unimaginable.

You don't know what I've "personally observed," and apparently aren't interested.

All I can say is that there is no single radio company that owns every radio station in any market, and there is still a lot of competition every day. In fact just this weekend, Radio One announced it will launch an FM News station in Houston next month. Randy Michaels just launched FM News stations in NY and Chicago. And there are lots of news and news/talk stations popping up every day in markets all across the country.

You are so preoccupied with trying to correct, that you become entangled in your own doubletalk.

I never said the lack of quality bred-from-competition was the case everywhere. But you, on the other hand, insist it is not a problem anywhere.

That is utter nonsense, but you refuse to believe anyone whose had differnet experiences than you.

 

[TheBigA]

That is utter nonsense, but you refuse to believe anyone whose had differnet experiences than you.

You seem to have had only one experience. It was bad. And you're still suffering from it. Sorry for you.

I keep asking for specificity. Can you give me one market where one company owns all the radio stations? Can you do that?

 

[jas2525]

That is utter nonsense, but you refuse to believe anyone whose had differnet experiences than you.

You seem to have had only one experience. It was bad. And you're still suffering from it. Sorry for you.

I keep asking for specificity. Can you give me one market where one company owns all the radio stations? Can you do that?

As I have mentioned in almost every post on this, I have seen this in SEVERAL markets I have worked in, not just ONE. Here's an easy one: Buffalo, NY.

Used to have a healthy battle between WGR-AM and WBEN-AM. That was when they were owned by two differnet companies pre-Telecom. Once 1996 passed, all the major AM signals, WGR (55), WBEN (930) and WWKB(1520) went under one roof. The company then neatly allocated each into it's own special box. Now only ONE newsroom, which is not "overstaffed", shall we say. The monopolizing of the AM band and the spoken-word formats ended any legitimate competition.

And unless you believe in amazing coincidences, it's unlikely that the markets I've witnessed this in are the only ones. But then again, YOU didn't see it, so it must not have happened.

But I'm sure you'll find a reason why my example doesn't count.

 

[TheBigA]

The company then neatly allocated each into their own special box. Now only ONE newsroom, which is not "overstaffed", shall we say. The monopolizing of the format ended any legitimate competition.

But there are lots of other companies that easily COULD enter the format if they wanted to, right? There is no law that says things have to remain the way they were, and every station has to stay in it's own little box. So if Townsquare wanted to enter the news/talk business, and they've had great success with it elsewhere, then they could. Same with Cumulus. These companies simply choose not to.

The fact is that AM radio is on life support. Buffalo has proven it can only support two AM stations. Others have come along and tried, and they've fallen on their face. So in anticipation of this, WBEN moved its news/talk format to FM. So far, no big deal. But that's where the next opportunity is. Not on AM. As I said early in this thread, even if the TCA Act had not included changes in ownership laws, we'd still be in this same place. Because there are too many stations in most markets for the amount of local advertising dollars available. And listeners are using many other devices than they did over 15 years ago. And there's nothing that will change either of those things.

 

[jas2525]

The company then neatly allocated each into their own special box. Now only ONE newsroom, which is not "overstaffed", shall we say. The monopolizing of the format ended any legitimate competition.

But there are lots of other companies that easily COULD enter the format if they wanted to, right? There is no law that says things have to remain the way they were, and every station has to stay in it's own little box.

Easily? Of course! Because starting up a newstalk station is so simple and inexpensive! It's just like opneing up a fruit stand at the farmers market! Talk about naive.

So if Townsquare wanted to enter the news/talk business, and they've had great success with it elsewhere, then they could. Same with Cumulus. These companies simply choose not to.

And WHY do you think THAT is? Might it be because newstalk is a VERY expensive endeavor that is not easily maintained and extraordinarily difficult to establish late in the game? Might it also be because Townsquare and Cumulus are in HORRIBLE shape financially and are only looking for ways to cut, not hire---thanks to the last 16 years of post-Telecom overpriced acquisitons and snowballing debt resulting from a mad dash to buy hundereds of stations---thanks to corporate greed-gone-wild, and aided handily by our hero, Telecom?

And which formats will those two companies you mentioned drop on FM to make room for that newstalk competition?

I have to direct some of my old Buffalo buddies to your post. They'll laugh hysterically, because they know the situation.

The fact is that AM radio is on life support. Buffalo has proven it can only support two AM stations.

ALL the more reason to make sure the only two viable stations in that format aren't owned by the SAME company. Oh, that's right, one of those AM's could go CHR.

Others have come along and tried, and they've fallen on their face. So in anticipation of this, WBEN moved its news/talk format to FM. So far, no big deal. But that's where the next opportunity is. Not on AM. As I said early in this thread, even if the TCA Act had not included changes in ownership laws, we'd still be in this same place. Because there are too many stations in most markets for the amount of local advertising dollars available. And listeners are using many other devices than they did over 15 years ago. And there's nothing that will change either of those things.

Those are all differnet issues that, even though they will greatly impact this format and business in the future, are not what I was referring to. I'm talking about what has transpired in the past 15 years.

 

[TheBigA]

Might it be because newstalk is a VERY expensive endeavor that is not easily maintained and extraordinarily difficult to establish late in the game?

So what you're saying is there's no point competing against BEN, because they have the resources and the heritage to stay on top regardless of competition. Even if the clock was turned back to companies to only own two stations per market, the odds are against anyone even trying to get in this format. As the owner of WECK learned earlier this year.

The most logical potential local owner for a news/talk station in Buffalo is the Evening News. They have the resources and the heritage. In fact, for many years, they owned WBEN, thus the call letters. Too bad an FCC law written 20 years before TCA forbids them from owning a radio station in the same town as a paper. See what I'm saying? It's not just TCA. There are lots of other factors that have created this situation.

 

[jas2525]

Might it be because newstalk is a VERY expensive endeavor that is not easily maintained and extraordinarily difficult to establish late in the game?

So what you're saying is there's no point competing against BEN, because they have the resources and the heritage to stay on top regardless of competition. Even if the clock was turned back to companies to only own two stations per market, the odds are against anyone even trying to get in this format. As the owner of WECK learned earlier this year.

A little history lesson:

Just before Telecom passed, WGR and WBEN were in a very heated battle, with WGR actually winning key demos in certain dayparts. After Telecom, both stations were under the same flag and one went sports while the other became the go-to newstalker. No more pesky format competitor.

Yes, the competition WAS there, but Telecom allowed that to be eliminated for the sake of a tidy arrangement that benefited ownership, certainly not the public.

But keep trying.

 

[TheBigA]

Yes, the competition WAS there, but Telecom allowed that to be eliminated for the sake of a tidy arrangement that benefited ownership, certainly not the public.

You want history? Look up Buffalo Broadcasting. At one time, they owned both WGR and WKBW. Long before 1996. And somehow the world didn't come to an end.

Look...things change. One minute Sears and K-Mart are competitors. Next, they're owned by the same company. That's free enterprise. What should have happened in Buffalo was that some lower rated station change formats and go after WBEN. THat's what's happening in Houston. KRTH fired their popular morning show. They were just hired by Radio One, who is launching a new all-news station. In New York, WCBS was all news. So was WINS. They were fierce competitors. Then Westinghouse bought CBS, and both stations are owned by the same company. Guess what: They're both still all-news and both competitors, and a new group has launched a third all news station. That's what should have happened in Buffalo. Don't know why it didn't. But you can't blame a law just because one company chooses to pervert it.

 

[jas2525]

Yes, the competition WAS there, but Telecom allowed that to be eliminated for the sake of a tidy arrangement that benefited ownership, certainly not the public.

You want history? Look up Buffalo Broadcasting. At one time, they owned both WGR and WKBW. Long before 1996. And somehow the world didn't come to an end.

Riiight, loooong before 1996, back when there were other AM stations that were viable. Now, when you yourself admitted there are only two viable stations, one company controls both.

Look...things change. One minute Sears and K-Mart are competitors. Next, they're owned by the same company. That's free enterprise. What should have happened in Buffalo was that some lower rated station change formats and go after WBEN. THat's what's happening in Houston. KRTH fired their popular morning show. They were just hired by Radio One, who is launching a new all-news station. In New York, WCBS was all news. So was WINS. They were fierce competitors. Then Westinghouse bought CBS, and both stations are owned by the same company. Guess what: They're both still all-news and both competitors, and a new group has launched a third all news station. That's what should have happened in Buffalo. Don't know why it didn't. But you can't blame a law just because one company chooses to pervert it.

First of all, giving examples of businesses that DO NOT have a fixed number of slots (dial positions) is comparing apples and oranges.

Second, you keep giving examples of situations where what I describe is NOT playing out. GREAT! That DOES NOT mean what I describe hasn't happened.

I could actually give you more examples of other markets where this same dynamic has been in play post-Telecom, but what's the point? You'll just deconstruct each one to try and push your agenda.

I know a great many seasoned pros who all seem to undertand how this has played out. You, on the other hand, are an apologist. You try and twist the facts, then couple that with a healthy dose of naive prognosticating.

Have the final word. I give up.

 

[imhomerjay]

I chuckle at the notion that pre 1996, which appears to be the primary thrust of the discussion, there was no manipulation. It's an utterly false premise. When the government places limits on the free market, on how companies may spend their money to grow, there is manipulation. The degree may ebb and flow over time, but what happened back in some alleged good old days period was not free of manipulation by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[jas2525]

I chuckle at the notion that pre 1996, which appears to be the primary thrust of the discussion, there was no manipulation. It's an utterly false premise. When the government places limits on the free market, on how companies may spend their money to grow, there is manipulation. The degree may ebb and flow over time, but what happened back in some alleged good old days period was not free of manipulation by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think anybody said "there was no manipulation" pre-1996. I know I didn't.

And yes, the governemtn certainly had something to say about who owned what. Why the oversight? Well, public airwaves AND fixed number of slots in any given market. If you let whoever own whatever, you end up with....uh, what we have today!

And let's stop pretending there's any kind of a "free market" in this country. Lobbyists in Washington and politicians hungry for $$$ guarantee that the deck is always stacked in favor of the wealthiest. That's not about to change.