According to Scott Fybush's Northeast Radio Watch for 7/29/2013, the new owners of the 990 station in Montreal are applying or have applied to move the station to 980 and decrease the nighttime power from 50 kW to 10 kW. The objective is to be able to broaden the night pattern to include more of Montreal's Anglophone population within the station's NIF contour. As Scott points out, the 0.5 mV/m contour, on which the population served is based, is not what's at issue. The population within the NIF contour is the issue. Presumably, the owners and their consulting engineers understand all of this. I guess we'll have to wait and see. The application, if granted, would also add one year to the proposed completion date for the new facilities.
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If the authorities approve, WNTP will get a break on interference from Montreal
- Thread starter DanStrassberg
- Start date
F
FredLeonard
Guest
DanStrassberg said:
If a tree falls in an empty forest, does it make a sound?
Can there be interference if nobody's listening?
But as I understand it, that by itself won't allow WNTP to loosen up its pattern some more, because the channel is still reserved to Canada under the treaties, which limit the amount of signal that can reach the Canadian border, whether the channel is in use there or not.
Interesting comments all around regarding the possible changes to Montreal's 990 and it's effects on WNTP. Will the proposed change make a difference in the listenability of our night signal? Absolutely. It already has. Since CKGM moved to 690 the situation has improved dramatically. They have consistently been the biggest interfering signal to WNTP since they moved from 980. That being said.....
Will WNTP be able to let out its night pattern or raise its power? Good question. We have looked into that previously and there are several considerations, even without Montreal: namely, Providence, Rochester, Knoxville, and Winnipeg. That pretty well boxes in Philly, just as it always has. Regarding the comments about how much signal may be sent over the Canadian border: that is not so much an issue, and hasn't been since the early 80s. With the changes in the NARBA agreement, we are not required to afford anymore protection to Canadian stations as we do those in the US. That was how we were able to let out the night pattern and raise the effective power from 6500 to 10,000 watts in 1986. If changes were to happen the main lobe would still be primarily to the SE towards south Jersey, and they would be the primary benefactors of the changes . That is not to say some improvement to the north would not be realized. Of course, without a complete engineering study, this is all speculation (or at least an educated guess).
The bottom line is that even without changes to WNTP's night pattern the lack of a signal on 990 from Montreal has been a big plus these past few months. And hopefully the CRTC will grant the application and it will stay that way.
Will WNTP be able to let out its night pattern or raise its power? Good question. We have looked into that previously and there are several considerations, even without Montreal: namely, Providence, Rochester, Knoxville, and Winnipeg. That pretty well boxes in Philly, just as it always has. Regarding the comments about how much signal may be sent over the Canadian border: that is not so much an issue, and hasn't been since the early 80s. With the changes in the NARBA agreement, we are not required to afford anymore protection to Canadian stations as we do those in the US. That was how we were able to let out the night pattern and raise the effective power from 6500 to 10,000 watts in 1986. If changes were to happen the main lobe would still be primarily to the SE towards south Jersey, and they would be the primary benefactors of the changes . That is not to say some improvement to the north would not be realized. Of course, without a complete engineering study, this is all speculation (or at least an educated guess).
The bottom line is that even without changes to WNTP's night pattern the lack of a signal on 990 from Montreal has been a big plus these past few months. And hopefully the CRTC will grant the application and it will stay that way.
And as far as 990 Providence is concerned, it was still off when I went back to visit friends and family a little over a month ago. Station's website says it's under reorganization, but I'd take that with a generous helping of salt. Two ownerships ruined an RCA Ampliphase and beat the utter hell out of a replacement AMPFET 50. I understand Jeff Welton gave the present ownership a list of things to do to keep the Nautel running but nothing was done. Sad.
rtetro said:
rene, So, you are saying you were getting that much first adjecent interference? Or is that a typo?
Sam Lit said:
Sam: I believe that Rene' meant what he said and said what he meant. It must be at least 30 years now since CKGM was last on 980 (IIRC, 10 kW-D, 5 kW-N DA-2). The pattern, IIRC, had major lobes to the east-southeast and west-southwest, That was followed by the move to 990. Other stations and frequencies were involved, too. The 980 station moved to 850 and switched from English to French. (English re-surfaced on 990.) There was also a 10 kW-U DA-1 (six towers) AM 850 in Albany NY (WXKW). It went dark around 1953 (could not get the pattern adjusted; KOA raised hell). The major lobes went north and south. WXKW had to go dark to make room for the Montreal 850.
Sam. I guess I could have phrased that a little more clearly. The jist of the statement is that when CKGM moved from 980 to 990 twenty years ago (+/-) the noticeable interference on 990 here in Philly increased dramatically and remained so until they moved to 690 a few months back. Since that time, the interference has dropped noticeably.Sam Lit said:
K
KC2LDY
Guest
Perhaps Salem should buy the 990 license in Provdence and apply to have it modified or deleted in order to optimize WNTP's signal. Or wouldn't deleting Providence alone be worth it?
Steve Biro said:
The "Providence" (actually, Greenville RI) signal comes with lots of problems. The site is in an area of very low soil conductivity (substantially even lower than that of most of southeastern New England, an area that, without even considering the special problems of the site, is well-known for poor conductivity). The site is also, I believe, a Superfund site and cleaning it up would reportedly cost many $millions. Most of the outfits that have looked at it have said "no thanks." If Salem were to buy the station, it is unlikely that they could find a buyer on which they could unload it.
To further amplify, at least 2 of the 6 towers may need replacing, with new sampling lines and loops too for all 6 towers. And the Nautel transmitter will need TLC to keep it from meeting the same fate as the original RCA Ampliphase. You'll need a studio and phone lines up to Log Bridge Rd for program and remote control. The only way I see this one coming back to life is to have it sold at a rock-bottom price or donated, so that whoever gets it can spend the money to get things back in order.
WNTP would not be allowed to send anything extra northwest anyway at night, right, because of CBY ? That's the protected station, not Montreal.
WNTP/WIBG traditionally has sent its main beam toward Atlantic City, purposely or no, and is truly the Bomb at the Outer Banks of North Carolina.
Like so many regionals and shoehorned 10,000 watters, there is no place else for them to go except southeast.
I remember up on Long Island one DXing night, hearing WIBG smothered under some station running equipment tests and playing Les Elgart songs. The much-louder station was WVSC, from western PA. WIBG was a steady, faint grumble underneath.
During the day on Long Island (near Kennedy Airport) they were the same ..... relentlessly faint, day and night.
And why would WNTP want to send more signal northeast, anyway, Providence or no Providence ? To cover Princeton ?
WNTP/WIBG traditionally has sent its main beam toward Atlantic City, purposely or no, and is truly the Bomb at the Outer Banks of North Carolina.
Like so many regionals and shoehorned 10,000 watters, there is no place else for them to go except southeast.
I remember up on Long Island one DXing night, hearing WIBG smothered under some station running equipment tests and playing Les Elgart songs. The much-louder station was WVSC, from western PA. WIBG was a steady, faint grumble underneath.
During the day on Long Island (near Kennedy Airport) they were the same ..... relentlessly faint, day and night.
And why would WNTP want to send more signal northeast, anyway, Providence or no Providence ? To cover Princeton ?
Steve,
CBW Winnipeg is the station WNTP looks out for.
CBY is in Corner Brook Nfld. They're 10 kW, non-D and here's their info:
http://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php...bSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=306089&sHours=U
CBW Winnipeg is the station WNTP looks out for.
CBY is in Corner Brook Nfld. They're 10 kW, non-D and here's their info:
http://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php...bSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=306089&sHours=U
Largely to improve night coverage in metro counties (primarily Bucks).Steve Green NEPA said:
Regarding signal to the northwest. It is true that very little can be increased due to Winnipeg. I would hope a possible power increase and move away from an in-line array could also squeeze some more signal out towards Chester and Delaware Counties. But, of course, all of this is speculation right now.
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