If there were no ratings, how would your station be different?

[allenv]

I am by no means a disgruntled radio guy.The reason is write this stuff is i enjoy it as much today as when I played my first record on July 30th 1983.I look forward to going to work.I still get the same thrill I did 25 years ago.I wouldn't trade a minute of what I've done.I am proud to be a small part of the business.The fact is radio is just like any other business good and bad.I do find it sad that I know so many talented people who have gotten out of the business or are stuck with little or no say so about what they do.I'm fine, I can go home and play Allen radio anytime I want.It is a business first and foremost.I like being paid every two weeks.This has never been about money for me.I have always had to do outside things to survive
like we all have.I just really believe our business is at a crossroads and it has got to
remember who it is and where it came from to survive.I think we all write this stuff because we care.I am of very average intelligence and ability but when its over for me I hope people will realize how much I love radio and more than that I admire the people who love it like I do..

Allen

 

[12 In a Row]

Well I have to jusmp in the foray. I agree with Allen's comments. I do see the other points of view too. But to the neysayers to me and Allen I ask this question: if radio stays the way it is now then how do you expect to KEEP what listeners you have? Study after study shows that radio listenership is dropping like a rock and moving to the "alternative" sources then I ask you what can this industry do to turn that around. I don't think playing the same 200 songs until the listener pukes is a way. I don't think not having any news outside of the morning drive is the way, time checks may or may not be irrelevant, but you'd be surprised at how many people who don't own or use a clock or even a watch and their car clocks are inevitably wrong since they never bothered to set them. So if you say they'e no good now I'd disagree. There HAS to be some form of change in this industry in order for it to survive. The current system does not work here in the 21st century and maybe the "old" system me and Allen talk about may not either, but I believe it is worth at least trying. The "new whiz kids" don't really CARE about radio all they want is their whatever the latest gadget to access the internet and chat and play the music they want to hear. There's no incentives for the younger crowd to go into radio as there once were because of automation and corprate's view on the lowly part-timer, but many of you here (myself included) got our start in this business as a part-timer. What is the industry doing to encourage the younger generations to get into radio? All they want is to make a ton of money doing nothing i.e no hard work to earn it.

I feel that if there were no rating system as Arbitron that radio would be more entertaining, informative, live and local. Also rather than the station being x number of miles away from it's city of license it would BE in the city of license. Move the studios back to the communities you serve that way you'd be closer to the people you're actually trying to serve. You cannot effectively do that hundereds of miles away. There needs to be an efective way to train the younger sales people on the fine art of radio sales. Have the veteran radio sales people teach or mentor the younger sales people because most radio salespeople today don't know how to sell radio. Even in programming the "old timers" (those before the ratings system) would be a wealth of knowledge for the current PDs. Many of those who have left the business due to corporateization should be reconsidered and given jobs back in the industry. Granted many may not really NEED to be back, but those good ones who want back in should be. As to consultant's well yes there are some good ones and there are bad ones too, but overall they have been bad for the industry as a whole and is one of the reasons this industry is in the state that it is in. Corporate thought it was going to make a boatload of money quick in radio, but it is realizing that in the short-term that was true, but in the long term it wasn't such a good idea. Radio is sort of like a fine wine it gets better with time and these younger CEOs want to make it rich NOW not years down the road.

I too don't know it all and these are just my opinions, but in my 22 years in this business I have seen it deteriorate and degenerate into the mess that it is today. No I'm not a disgrunteled emplyee because I still work in radio and I realise it is all about making a profit because it IS a busness just like any other. I DO however have a passion for radio that is in my blood (must be all the RF radiation) and I love this business I guess too much, but unless it changes for the better then I see a very gloomy path ahead.

I see your passion J and I respect that.

Starting in the business in the late 60's, (yikes, it's been that long) I to have seen a big change.
Some good/some bad, some we have no control over.


The way I see it, bad timing for corporate to get in the business. No one knew the impact of the internet, I-pods, etc.
No one even imagined in the late 90's the advertising downturn, fueled by high gas and heating oil, the housing bust, auto industry and lots more.
Consumer confidence is in the crapper and the retailers we rely on for advertising have cut back or have gone out of business.
Less billing=less jobs.


As for the Whiz Kids, you hit the nail on the head.

whiz kids" don't really CARE about radio all they want is their whatever the latest gadget to access the internet and chat and play the music they want to hear.

The landscape has changed.
In TV World, you now have High Def., Video on Demand, pause and replay "live" shows, 500 channels to choose from, just to name a few.
Radio is stuck doing the same things and expecting different results.

The Whiz Kids growing up in the 80s and 90s are now in the prime demos and have moved on to newer and better technology.
Heck, we're all using the Intenet. ;D

Yes, this topic can go on forever No easy solutions, but one thing is for sure, radio will be a part of the landscape in one form or another for years to come.
We can program to our generation and die on the vine, or get some input from the Whiz Kids.

 

[allenv]

I think our generation still has alot to offer.I never have quite understood the mentality of the we don't want the 40 plus audience.I think we have the most income to play with and the folks I know in that age bracket are still making major purchases.Even 50 plus.. its like people think that the age group just curls up in a ball and waits to die.That audience is loyal and still lets go of a lot of cash and lives a very active lifestyle...

Allen

 

[XTalker]

Radio still has a lot to offer - but under the current "big radio" control, it is not likely to make much headway.

As for how radio listening in general stack up with the past, the RAB says radio listeing was greater in 2006 than ever before (their number was 230,417,000 people listened to radio weekly in that year (the latest for which stats are available). The number is based on Arbitron weekly cume (all listeners, all dayparts) .

http://www.rab.com/public/reports/weeklyreach.cfm

While a lot of young people may not count radio as their number one source of entertainment, the medium still has a lot to offer, and it will be a mighty long time before any of the new technologies surpass radio as a source of news, information, and entertainment.

Remember, radio is FREE to the listener! All the other technologies nickel and dime you to death!

Down the road, I look for the big dollar investor to get out of radio and into some other area. Look for bargains as companies sell off radio properties. Look for people like Don Curtis to take advantage of it and look for more innovation in programming.

 

[ZAX Double J]

I think our generation still has alot to offer.I never have quite understood the mentality of the we don't want the 40 plus audience.I think we have the most income to play with and the folks I know in that age bracket are still making major purchases.Even 50 plus.. its like people think that the age group just curls up in a ball and waits to die.That audience is loyal and still lets go of a lot of cash and lives a very active lifestyle...

Allen

You are correct the 40+ group is sorely overlooked by the marketing folks and the media at large. Why is it that everyone thinks the younger crowd has more money? I just don't see that.

12 I believe that radio will overcome the onslaught of new media just as it did when TV first came out decades ago. The people then thought radio was dead, but it survived. They said the same thing when the Walkman came out and when MTV first signed on, but in both cases radio survived and even prospered because of them. I believe that radio must embrace the new media in some way. I mean there is a lot of revenue potential in a website if the sales force intermixes it with their traditional radio sales pitch. The benefits are huge for both parties. Stations could actually SELL their t-shirts and other logo items rather than just giving them away at remotes. They could tie into iTunes or other online musc store for the artists that you play. And on and on. Streaming your signal on the internet is a boon too for those signally challenged stations. Now a small station with limited wattage can literally be heard all over the world rather than in it's small power output pattern area. Think of the possibilities there that would have never been possible only a few years ago. Yes the economy is in such turmoil and uncertainty, but I am always an optimist I think it will turn around at some point hopefully sooner than later. It has to in order for this country to survive. In a down economy there is great opportunity for radio. People are staying at home more becuase of the high gas prices so here is where we can gain those listeners. A station should advertise itself just like your clients you are a business too so spend a little money and advertise during TV prime time if possible, put ads in the local paper. Do whatever it takes to make your station stand out and get noticed. I for one am not satisfied with the SOS. My station would be literally everywhere (possible) almost to the point that you couldn't go anywhere without seeing my station logo somewhere or hearing my station played somewhere. Granted too many retailers won't let a radio or TV be played in their stores, but the mom and pop ones don't have those restrictions so there's an opportunity there. Billboards at the local statium or little league field is another area that your logo can be placed for exposure. I think it is that most GM/OM/PDs have been so brainwashed and hand led by corporate and consultants for so long that they can't think or even DO their jobs anymore. If corporate or the consutant's doesn't agree with their ideas they don't have the balls to stand up and "fight" for their point of view. They just accept it and do the SOS. If corporate and the consultants went away overnight they would NOT know what to do. They would crumble under the pressure.

 

[ZAX Double J]

Radio still has a lot to offer - but under the current "big radio" control, it is not likely to make much headway.

As for how radio listening in general stack up with the past, the RAB says radio listeing was greater in 2006 than ever before (their number was 230,417,000 people listened to radio weekly in that year (the latest for which stats are available). The number is based on Arbitron weekly cume (all listeners, all dayparts) .

http://www.rab.com/public/reports/weeklyreach.cfm

While a lot of young people may not count radio as their number one source of entertainment, the medium still has a lot to offer, and it will be a mighty long time before any of the new technologies surpass radio as a source of news, information, and entertainment.

Remember, radio is FREE to the listener! All the other technologies nickel and dime you to death!

Down the road, I look for the big dollar investor to get out of radio and into some other area. Look for bargains as companies sell off radio properties. Look for people like Don Curtis to take advantage of it and look for more innovation in programming.

Very good points and I agree with you. As you stated "Remember, radio is FREE to the listener! All the other technologies nickel and dime you to death!" this is so true! and is one of the real reasons why I have never bought a satellite radio and I don't ever plan to either. Granted they do have some compelling and interesting programming, but most of that SHOULD be found on traditional radio but isn't. That's sad too.

 

[allenv]

The control has to go back to local owners and decisions must be made in house.
Most of the consultants I have met are nice guys.They peddle their wares very well.I don't think they should go away completely but they should never have any say so in the final decisions.I had the opportunity a few years ago to see some of the consultant research done for a station.It looked like the operators
manual for a nuclear warhead.It was fifty pages long with all these terms and definitions and such.Basically it could have been 10 pages of really useful information if you took out all the fancy terms,focus group stuff etc..I've never seen anything like it, every little thing was broken down,ground up and broken down again.It was truely mind boggling the amount of babble using terms and phrases that would make Noah Webster pass out.If someone wanted to they could find fault and knitpick every break completely to death.Some things in life
are simple by nature and radio is one of them.We are making things way too complicated and all this babble that I saw was very expensive and impressed those who didn't know any better.Thay have all these conference calls and spit out all this stuff which 90% of the people who do the day to day stuff in the station knew already.I don't blame consultants as much as I blame those who fall
for this stuff.Consultants just sell a product.The ones who live and die by this stuff have to shoulder alot of the blame.I don't blame the holy water salesman when he sells you tap water.I blame those who aren't smart enough to know the difference..

Allen

 

[ZAX Double J]

Good points Allen. Statistics can be made to say whatever you want them to if you put the right words around it. Some in radio have made it sound so complicated, overanalyzed, nit-picked to death that it is really funny. Radio si not hard or rocket science so why make it that way?

 

[12 In a Row]

It's nice to see the passion and replies.

You are correct about the figures from RAB.
What I don't see are demos and time spent listening.

The 40-50+ crowd (us/me) has money to spend, mostly paying my kids college tuitions and saving for retirement.
Heck, one of my kids just graduated and moved back.

Massive amounts of research shows that once we hit the magic 50, we are brand loyal and can't be swayed.
Hmmmmm, come to think of it, I've been eating ONLY Skippy Peanut Butter since I was 5.
TV Evening News got it right. Go after the 55+ advertisers. Now all we see are drugs for everything and every body part. VIVA VIAGRA!

I do remember when the radio station(s) had a promotional budget for TV, Billboards, Bus Cards, Newspaper and Cash or Cars for the major books.
To return to the good ole days, you need lots of revenue coming in the door.

The big dog radio and tv stations in town were cash cows.
Little or no competition, but those days are sadly over.

Sure, someday maybe, corporate will have a firesale.

This will surely devalue the business even further.
NO bank, financial institution, venture capitolists, the mafia, will go anywhere near the business.

Reminds me of a favorite quote,
"If you want to become a millionaire owning radio stations, you must first be a billionaire."

That being said, I'm still holding out hope.

 

[XTalker]

Promotion budgets have been eaten up by debt service! No one owns a station outright these days. Most are financed to the hilt. When you have a gigantic mortgage payment, there is little left for promotion!

As for NAB numbers, TSL and Demos don't matter in that discussion. Fact is 280-million people listen to radio - more today than yesterday! The money demo is getting older (we've had this discussion before) and there is a lot of money to be made with the 50+ audience.

Radio is always in a state of change. Advertisers come and go, formats come and go. If your station is not changing, you are losing!