Iger floats possibility of Disney selling ABC

[fybush]

So, in a sense, the Chimp is correct in saying that the systems in use in other countries may make equivalent power and height comparisons seem unfavorable to the "home team".

Bad things adopted to satisfy national pride also have given us AM stereo in the 80's and AM HD stereo two decades later. It's interesting that nearly no other countries adopted those... and even if approved, they never got broad acceptance or usage.

Pretty much, yes. I get a regular reminder of one of the flaws of ATSC 1 (susceptibility to multipath) here at my location less than a mile from my locals.

They deliver plenty of RF, so that even the most minimal of indoor antennas works just fine, but when there's a low-flying plane on approach overhead, the resulting multipath kills the two VHF signals here for a moment. That wouldn't happen with ATSC3 or any of the flavors of DVB.

 

[fybush]

And all the markets are based on watching the station, not watching them over the air. TV markets were defined back in the 50's as channels rolled out in the larger cities while surrounding areas put up those 50' towers we used to see in rural areas, complete with a rotor! In some places, community antennas were put "up on the hill" and signals boosted and sent down to the town. Thus we got TV markets that covered areas that might have been as much as 200 miles from actual stations.

Right - which is why it's not as simple as "just put up an outdoor antenna," even if you get past all the assumptions that come with that. (David, you have all the statistics at hand - what percentage of viewers live in single-family homes where an antenna is even possible, and what percentage are in multi-family dwellings where they can't? And that's not even getting into all the hassles that make antennas a de facto impossibility in HOA communities, even where they're theoretically allowed by law.)

Many of those markets that were defined in the 50s by CATV distant viewing or by translators have no OTA service these days. The rugged parts of central PA where CATV was born are good examples. There's no antenna you can put up down in the valleys of Smethport or Bradford, PA that will yield any signal at all from the Buffalo stations that have been imported for 70 years now on cable. Same for Scranton into Williamsport or Philadelphia into Allentown or Reading.

I haven't run current numbers since the end of analog and then the repack of digital, but I'd bet there's somewhere between 10-15% of the US by population that doesn't have reliable OTA coverage by all of the big four networks. I wouldn't be shocked if it's even higher than that these days. There's so little incentive for OTA network affiliates to expand their coverage areas when so much of their revenue stream is derived from retrans consent dollars from cable, satellite and OTT services.

Can't get NBC in Concord NH? Comcast wants you on Xfinity anyway, and if you'd rather pay Dish or Verizon, Comcast will get its cut anyway.

 

[KeithE4]

Pretty much, yes. I get a regular reminder of one of the flaws of ATSC 1 (susceptibility to multipath) here at my location less than a mile from my locals.

When I lived only a few miles from the South Mountain towers in Phoenix, multipath wasn't much of an issue since there's no airport nearby. Rain and thick storm clouds during monsoon season was more of a problem (the latter killing satellite reception as well).

But the biggest problem I had there was the dozen or so 100 kW FM stations that would overload the receiver, causing intermod that wiped out several channels, both VHF and UHF. Installing an FM trap inline solved that issue. It's not a problem where I live now, 25 miles away.

They deliver plenty of RF, so that even the most minimal of indoor antennas works just fine, but when there's a low-flying plane on approach overhead, the resulting multipath kills the two VHF signals here for a moment. That wouldn't happen with ATSC3 or any of the flavors of DVB.

Where I am now, not only are planes flying overhead an issue, but so are those that are taking off and landing at the airport a couple miles to the southwest, in between myself and South Mountain. I'm 130 feet higher than the runway, so planes are both above and below ground level at my house. Nothing I can do about it.

At least I solved most of the "leaves blowing in the wind" problem by cutting down that tree (which was half dead anyway).

 

[Mark Roberts]

Right - which is why it's not as simple as "just put up an outdoor antenna," even if you get past all the assumptions that come with that. [...]

I haven't run current numbers since the end of analog and then the repack of digital, but I'd bet there's somewhere between 10-15% of the US by population that doesn't have reliable OTA coverage by all of the big four networks. I wouldn't be shocked if it's even higher than that these days. There's so little incentive for OTA network affiliates to expand their coverage areas when so much of their revenue stream is derived from retrans consent dollars from cable, satellite and OTT services.

A couple of anecdotes:

When we were in Albuquerque last month, we stayed in an Airbnb that relied on an antenna for local stations and Internet connectivity for everything else. Most of the local TV stations are on Sandia Crest which looms over Albuquerque. In theory, you should be able to use a coathanger as an antenna, especiallly where we were in east-central Albuquerque close to Nob Hill.

Well, nope.

KOB and KNME and the other stations on UHF came in just fine. KOAT and KRQE retained their VHF allocations. Not a trace of them.

Next anecdote, which is more a matter of speculation - I would need to call one of my Missouri relatives to confirm this (and as I write this, it's after 11:30 pm there - they would not appreciate a call at that hour). There's an area of north-central Missouri that's always had challenges getting TV signals. It's shadowed from Kansas City. The best signals came from St. Joseph (KQTV channel 2) and Kirksville (KTVO channel 3). After the Alleman towers went up in Iowa, the northernmost reaches of the area could get TV from Des Moines. But most people there aren't all that interested in Iowa. Commercial and other activity is oriented toward St. Joseph and Kansas City.

After the digital transition: KTVO went to UHF and lost about 25% of its coverage area. As Scott points out, there was little incentive to retain areas with declining populations and more hogs than people. As long as KTVO could cover Kirksville and Ottumwa, Iowa, that was good enough. KQTV landed on VHF channel 7. It also ended up chopping off the top 100 feet or so of its tower for the new antenna. So it's doubtful that a reliable signal can be obtained in the part of north Missouri that I'm referring to. The local cable provider in the town much of my family is from is a bucket of crap. Fiber is being installed through the local electric cooperative, so there's some hope there. But I'd bet that satellite-receiver penetration is pretty high in that community. It has managed to be assigned to the Kansas City media market, so subscribers there will get those channels.

 

[vchimpanzee]

They deliver plenty of RF, so that even the most minimal of indoor antennas works just fine, but when there's a low-flying plane on approach overhead, the resulting multipath kills the two VHF signals here for a moment. That wouldn't happen with ATSC3 or any of the flavors of DVB.

Even when one of my antennas is working, sometimes a car passing by will cause a brief problem.

 

[frankberry]

Time to close this thread. It's gone way off-topic.