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iHeartMedia clusters that have zero local personalities

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We have not been into a bank in about five years or so. Like you, I can deposit by a digital image, and get cash in a drive through or at a device outside the gas station or supermarket... although I seldom need or use cash either.

Once a year, the advisers from my bank 2,000 miles away fly in and we conference for a day in the living room, they take us to dinner and go back home. Paperwork comes and goes by FedEx, and everything else is available online. During the pandemic, we did video conferences.

We were considering a move out of California. The bank did some paperwork online and I have financing for a house without going into a bank. Another example of why there is no need for going into a bank that I can imagine today.

We have tons of small banks in this area that cannot do much online. I can only check balances on their website. But I can walk in and talk to the bank President/CEO without an appointment or speak with any of their 4 tellers that are working every business day.

There are some things you still have to do in person regardless. Using a safe deposit box is probably the main one. Only $10 a year for a large box at my small bank.
 
We have tons of small banks in this area that cannot do much online. I can only check balances on their website. But I can walk in and talk to the bank President/CEO without an appointment or speak with any of their 4 tellers that are working every business day.

There are some things you still have to do in person regardless. Using a safe deposit box is probably the main one. Only $10 a year for a large box at my small bank.
There are small town exceptions to the rule, but the statement that a bank can't remain in business without tellers and in-person back hours? Simply isn't true.
 
My point was that there was a trend towards unified national music lists in each genre that goes back to the 50's with Your Hit Parade on TV. Soon we had American Bandstand and pop music entering shows like Ed Sullivan and Johnny Carson. By the time we got to the 70's, radio stations all used airplay lists in publications like Hamilton, Gaving, FMQB and Radio & Records.

By the later 70's we had thousands of stations doing taped formats, ranging from Beautiful Music to Top 40 and Country all using the same playlists done by just a few syndicators. The 90's brought satellite versions of taped formats, and then we got Internet streams and satellite radio.

None of that had to do with consolidation... it had to do with the fact that distribution methods improved, making it possible to form de facto networks of stations in each format with identical playlists.
You are ignoring the fact that with consolidation, it is a hell of a lot cheaper to have homogenized, identical playlists than it is to hire local leaders who research each market. Of course iHeart or Audacy will have national playlists; why would they localize anything?

There is no reason why it should be different, either. It's the same country, the same format, the same culture. This is no different than when Gunsmoke got 30 ratings in every market, from Miami to Medford.
Miami has a completely different ethnic makeup than Medford. And music is much different than TV. The musical tastes of Miami have little in common with those of most people in Medford, OR.

If you do music research in different markets for the same format, you will find that "good" is the same thing, market after market. With very rare and very moderate exceptions, in research the same songs score the same way "everywhere" among partisans of a particular format.

In most cases today, listener after listener will tell you that, outside of mornings, they want us to "shut up and play the music". Morning shows are a bit different, as the best use music as fill between bits... and people seem to overwhelmingly like that at the start of their day. But, just as they like personality in the AM, by afternoons they don't want interruptions after a long day.
Then why are operators like iHeart investing in more local talent in big markets? Check out iHeart's CHR stations in Philadelphia and Boston, for example.
 
Last reports had SXM at less than 2% of the 'radio' listening audience. In reality, it isn't that popular, just an additional form of competition to traditional radio.
In fact, many studies that involved actually chatting with satellite subscribers showed that satellite was vastly more likely to have replaced consumers' use of cassettes, CDs or even flash drives in the car. Because of the plethora of narrow formats, it comes close to being a direct substitute for people's own personal playlists in a simple to use system that has plenty of alternatives to satisfy nearly any mood.
Because hits are hits and popular is popular. Doesn't matter what state or country. In a; streaming plus Tik-Tok-breaking-music-to-youth-world, there is tons more exposure than what just radio can offer. Radio broadcasts to the public who tunes in. The expectation is consistency, not experimentation.
It's rather telling that in my own experience around Latin America, in genres that were not strictly indigenous, the same songs were hits everywhere. In some cases, the songs were covered by local artists in different nations, but the songs were the same from Chile to Puerto Rico and from Venezuela to Mexico.
I disagree. You won't find a pop station in the Napa region sounding like Compton.
Each market will have it's particular assortment of formats, but within specific formats the playlists will be quite similar.

And you won't find a Regional Mexican station in San Juan, PR, or in Traverse City, MI for that matter. Just like we don't find a country station in New York City.
Maybe back in the 60-80's, but those days are long gone. As David said; youth today don't want to listen to yakking jocks talking up vocals or giving time checks. It's repulsive to them, not endearing at all.
Things we used to think were the sign of a star, such as "hitting the post" are considered hateful to today's listeners... not a "skill" when people think it sucks big time.
 
Last reports had SXM at less than 2% of the 'radio' listening audience. In reality, it isn't that popular, just an additional form of competition to traditional radio.

At 34+ million active subscribers, I would have to seriously question the accuracy of any report saying SXM has less than 2% of radio listeners. That's more than 13% of the adult population and 25% of households. That doesn't take into account that most subscriptions have both the satellite and streaming service, making it highly accessible to multiple people per subscription.
 
You are ignoring the fact that with consolidation, it is a hell of a lot cheaper to have homogenized, identical playlists than it is to hire local leaders who research each market. Of course iHeart or Audacy will have national playlists; why would they localize anything?
Local "leaders" (whatever that means) don't do music research. Generally, one of a couple of national companies do those projects. And they are very expensive in an era of declining revenue.

Going back over 30 years when I was responsible for the leading country station in Tallahassee, FL, we were teamed up with country stations in several other markets in the region... such as Albany, GA... and we did one music test every 6 months in one of the markets and rotated. We found that the same library songs got identical scores in each of four markets, so there was no need to do a local test twice a year.

Since an AMT back then was over $25,000 we ended up getting two tests a year for $12,500 by that sort of sharing. If we had owned a bunch of stations in somewhat comparable markets, we might have done one test every 6 months and alternated in three or four year cycles... there is just no need to do expensive research in every similar market..
Miami has a completely different ethnic makeup than Medford. And music is much different than TV. The musical tastes of Miami have little in common with those of most people in Medford, OR.
But within individual formats, the audiences are going to be about the same.
Then why are operators like iHeart investing in more local talent in big markets? Check out iHeart's CHR stations in Philadelphia and Boston, for example.
Yet in most dayparts in most markets, they are using the same talent for voicetracks for multiple markets. Seacrest seldom visits the studios of KIIS in Los Angeles and is on dozens of stations with the same content because he has something unique to offer listeners that local morning show hosts in Milwaukee or Boise or Birmingham don't have and never will.
 
At 34+ million active subscribers, I would have to seriously question the accuracy of any report saying SXM has less than 2% of radio listeners. That's more than 13% of the adult population and 25% of households.
Nearly all the SiriusXM listening is in vehicles. Less than half of all radio listening is in vehicles. And remember that a significant percentage of satellite subscriptions are in rental cars, which are a separate unmeasured universe.

And another significant percentage of satellite subscribers are long-distance truckers who are not part of the local radio universe.

Most car usage is done by a driver alone. So we are talking about about 260 million vehicles in the US, and just over 12% have satellite. Not every person in a car with satellite radio is using it all the time or even exclusively. So do the math over again.
That doesn't take into account that most subscriptions have both the satellite and streaming service, making it highly accessible to multiple people per subscription.
But the streaming is still not heavily used... when radio stations do their own listener surveys it is not uncommon to find a measurable in-car audience for both the satellie delivery and streams in "connected cars" but to find no usage of SiriusXM in homes or offices.
 
At 34+ million active subscribers, I would have to seriously question the accuracy of any report saying SXM has less than 2% of radio listeners. That's more than 13% of the adult population and 25% of households. That doesn't take into account that most subscriptions have both the satellite and streaming service, making it highly accessible to multiple people per subscription.
SXM has always stretched (aka fudges) their 'subscriber' numbers to include vehicles produced, or scheduled to produce with SXM-capable systems installed. That includes vehicles sitting on lots, schedule to be built, purchasers during the trial basis, and even after the trial basis has expired. Now they're including owners of GM cars with their "360" system that includes streaming, and streaming-only trial subscriptions. Essentially, if SXM is available it's counted, whether it's an actual subscription or not.
 
Local "leaders" (whatever that means) don't do music research. Generally, one of a couple of national companies do those projects. And they are very expensive in an era of declining revenue.
Local leaders means PDs and MDs. In 1995, nearly all stations had individual PDs and MDs and many had APDs and AMDs. Said "leaders," who were locally based, were charged with getting to know the tastes of their markets.

Going back over 30 years when I was responsible for the leading country station in Tallahassee, FL, we were teamed up with country stations in several other markets in the region... such as Albany, GA... and we did one music test every 6 months in one of the markets and rotated. We found that the same library songs got identical scores in each of four markets, so there was no need to do a local test twice a year.
You are changing the goal posts here. I am not talking about very small markets like Albany, GA or Tallahassee. I am talking about top 50 markets. And there was a huge ethnic difference between my home market and the larger one 50 miles away. The CHR station, for example, was radically different in my home market than it was in the larger, more distant market.
Since an AMT back then was over $25,000 we ended up getting two tests a year for $12,500 by that sort of sharing. If we had owned a bunch of stations in somewhat comparable markets, we might have done one test every 6 months and alternated in three or four year cycles... there is just no need to do expensive research in every similar market..

But within individual formats, the audiences are going to be about the same.

Yet in most dayparts in most markets, they are using the same talent for voicetracks for multiple markets. Seacrest seldom visits the studios of KIIS in Los Angeles and is on dozens of stations with the same content because he has something unique to offer listeners that local morning show hosts in Milwaukee or Boise or Birmingham don't have and never will.
Look at afternoon drive in both Philly and Boston. iHeart has put significant resources into that slot at both CHR stations.
 
"Local books" aren't the concern of competition, but advertiser's are. Just like forms of listening, the whole landscape of media advertising has changed, where the fundamentals of how radio works, hasn't. Digital advertising is now the darling. You don't need ratings in the streaming or digital environment, because there is naturally granular results down to the person, available to advertisers on an hour-by-hour basis.
I am not arguing about whether things have changed. I am arguing that playlists have become homogenized and FM music radio, by and large, has become a huge bore.
Last reports had SXM at less than 2% of the 'radio' listening audience. In reality, it isn't that popular, just an additional form of competition to traditional radio.

So we agree.

Because hits are hits and popular is popular. Doesn't matter what state or country. In a; streaming plus Tik-Tok-breaking-music-to-youth-world, there is tons more exposure than what just radio can offer. Radio broadcasts to the public who tunes in. The expectation is consistency, not experimentation.
Yet there is huge difference in ethic make up and tastes between markets. Miami CHR should not sound the same as Des Moines CHR. Miami Country should not sound the same as Tuscaloosa Country.
I disagree. You won't find a pop station in the Napa region sounding like Compton.
So again, we agree.
Maybe back in the 60-80's, but those days are long gone. As David said; youth today don't want to listen to yakking jocks talking up vocals or giving time checks. It's repulsive to them, not endearing at all.
Then why has iHeart invested in local afternoon "yakkers" on the CHR stations in two of its biggest markets - Philly and Boston?
 
Not that you might not have had a slightly different experience, but, at least musically, I don’t remember stations sounding different from market-to-market before 1996. Some smaller markets were slower to add new music, but, as a general rule, whether I was in Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Memphis, Chicago, or somewhere in-between, the stations had similar playlists. If I heard a breaking song in Chicago or Dallas, it would be in Tulsa and Little Rock in two or three weeks. In terms of personalities, they might've been different, but they generally covered the same topics. Most of the topics they touched on 25-30 years ago were no more memorable than what I hear today.
We clearly lived in different areas. I was able to witness huge diversity from my own bedroom. My home market was West Palm Beach and the distant market was Miami. When I was growing up, there was a gigantic difference between WOVV in West Palm and WPOW in Miami.


I do agree with you here. I don’t necessarily blame consolidation for it, though. After Cumulus bought a locally owned cluster where I was working, the local airstaff headcount actually went up. We did live radio on all of our stations from 6 AM - 6 PM, and two were even live until midnight. We weren’t doing that when locally owned. What changed that was the Great Recession. That was when the syndicated morning shows were brought in, the night and midday hosts were sacked, and the part-time staff was cut by about 2/3. As I've mentioned previously, despite Cumulus returning stations to local control after Mary Berner took over, the number of live and local full-time shifts added to the entire cluster since has been exactly zero.
I think this is the exception to the rule. iHeart has gutted their cluster in my local market of West Palm. In other markets I follow, Cumulus, for what it is worth, has gutted airstaff too. I noticed this on the Space Coast.
 
Local leaders means PDs and MDs. In 1995, nearly all stations had individual PDs and MDs and many had APDs and AMDs. Said "leaders," who were locally based, were charged with getting to know the tastes of their markets.
No, local PDs had the job of acquiring, interpreting and implementing research. Basically, the personal tastes and preferences of a PD have to be suppressed for that person to do a good job serving their audience.
You are changing the goal posts here. I am not talking about very small markets like Albany, GA or Tallahassee. I am talking about top 50 markets. And there was a huge ethnic difference between my home market and the larger one 50 miles away. The CHR station, for example, was radically different in my home market than it was in the larger, more distant market.
Often differences in implementing a specific format have to do with the competitive array in the market. A CHR in a market with a Churban is going to be less ethnic than one that has to serve both sets of listeners.

And there is no reason why markets like Raleigh, Charlotte, Tidewater, Richmond and others like those can't all combine on research... in fact, when there is common ownership, they do. Within specific formats, the same songs tend to show up the same way everywhere now.
Look at afternoon drive in both Philly and Boston. iHeart has put significant resources into that slot at both CHR stations.
And don't they use the talent on other stations as well? We are rapidly approaching the model used in nearly all the rest of the world which is the same that showed TV, way back in the 50's, that a national night show would beat any attempt at a local show in every market.
 
We clearly lived in different areas. I was able to witness huge diversity from my own bedroom. My home market was West Palm Beach and the distant market was Miami. When I was growing up, there was a gigantic difference between WOVV in West Palm and WPOW in Miami.
WPOW was always, until recently, a Churban station that was predominantly targeted at Hispanics. So it was not a CHR, it was an Hispanic station that also got some Black and some non-Hispanic whites.

WPOW was Bill Tanner's adaptation of his final time at Y-100 and his brief time with EZ Communications; he developed a format that only fit Miami because there was a big enough and unique Hispanic community that needed its own format... one that couldn't work anywhere else in the US.
I think this is the exception to the rule. iHeart has gutted their cluster in my local market of West Palm. In other markets I follow, Cumulus, for what it is worth, has gutted airstaff too. I noticed this on the Space Coast.
And listeners seem to like the stations without the chatter.
 
WPOW was always, until recently, a Churban station that was predominantly targeted at Hispanics. So it was not a CHR, it was an Hispanic station that also got some Black and some non-Hispanic whites.

WPOW was Bill Tanner's adaptation of his final time at Y-100 and his brief time with EZ Communications; he developed a format that only fit Miami because there was a big enough and unique Hispanic community that needed its own format... one that couldn't work anywhere else in the US.

And listeners seem to like the stations without the chatter.
And when I was growing up, WPOW was the closest thing Miami had to a CHR station. In fact, before 6 PM, WPOW played some Rock-leaning songs that Churban stations did not play. I have a tape of WPOW from 1993, and Duran Duran's "Ordinary Word" was played during Kid Curry's midday show. At the time, Y-100 was best described as Hot AC and it was targeting Fort Lauderdale more than Miami.

Listeners might not want chatter, but ownership loves to dump salaries too.

And without jocks, it's hard to come up with a compelling reason to tune into radio instead of the non-radio competition. But all you have done is defend the status quo.
 
SXM has always stretched (aka fudges) their 'subscriber' numbers to include vehicles produced, or scheduled to produce with SXM-capable systems installed. That includes vehicles sitting on lots, schedule to be built, purchasers during the trial basis, and even after the trial basis has expired. Now they're including owners of GM cars with their "360" system that includes streaming, and streaming-only trial subscriptions. Essentially, if SXM is available it's counted, whether it's an actual subscription or not

That's common practice among publicly traded companies. It's why you always want to buy stock based off of longer trends and why you always want to read the statements with each report.

One of the big toy companies, I believe Mattel, counts an item as sold when it's on a truck in one of its shipping bays. Usually, about this time of year, it will ship more toys than its dealers request as Christmas is coming. It then tries to get those retailers to hold onto those toys until after Christmas. Most agree, or at least used to, because forecasting for the Christmas rush used to be really difficult, and you generally sold your entire inventory of higher demand items. The result was a huge Q4 for that company, though Q1 was always a lot softer because they either had to take back all the extra items shipped a few months earlier or had less demand for their products due to the excess inventory already on shelves. I'm thinking I read even Krispy Kreme counted its package donuts as sold when they were on trucks, not when they were actually purchased.

I don't see what SXM is doing as being any different from what so many other companies do. Potential investors just need to take note of that when deciding whether or not to invest (or whether to hold or sell).
 
No, local PDs had the job of acquiring, interpreting and implementing research. Basically, the personal tastes and preferences of a PD have to be suppressed for that person to do a good job serving their audience.
I have known several '90s-era MDs who conducted local research. They were from top 50 markets, not Albany or Tallahassee.
Often differences in implementing a specific format have to do with the competitive array in the market. A CHR in a market with a Churban is going to be less ethnic than one that has to serve both sets of listeners.
Of course this is a factor. But how can one ignore the ethnic make up of a market today? Y-100 in Miami sounds a heck of a lot like KGOT/Anchorage, at least musically. Those markets have zero in common.

And there is no reason why markets like Raleigh, Charlotte, Tidewater, Richmond and others like those can't all combine on research... in fact, when there is common ownership, they do. Within specific formats, the same songs tend to show up the same way everywhere now.

And don't they use the talent on other stations as well? We are rapidly approaching the model used in nearly all the rest of the world which is the same that showed TV, way back in the 50's, that a national night show would beat any attempt at a local show in every market.
If the latter were the case, then why isn't there a national program on every daypart on every station? It's telling that iHeart, which has the bodies and resources to do it, still has local programming in mornings and afternoons in the biggest markets.
 
That's common practice among publicly traded companies. It's why you always want to buy stock based off of longer trends and why you always want to read the statements with each report.

One of the big toy companies, I believe Mattel, counts an item as sold when it's on a truck in one of its shipping bays. Usually, about this time of year, it will ship more toys than its dealers request as Christmas is coming. It then tries to get those retailers to hold onto those toys until after Christmas. Most agree, or at least used to, because forecasting for the Christmas rush used to be really difficult, and you generally sold your entire inventory of higher demand items. The result was a huge Q4 for that company, though Q1 was always a lot softer because they either had to take back all the extra items shipped a few months earlier or had less demand for their products due to the excess inventory already on shelves. I'm thinking I read even Krispy Kreme counted its package donuts as sold when they were on trucks, not when they were actually purchased.

I don't see what SXM is doing as being any different from what so many other companies do. Potential investors just need to take note of that when deciding whether or not to invest (or whether to hold or sell).
And I'm not saying your comments are wrong. I was responding to Casey who claimed SXM, at a reported 30+ million "subscribers" must have more than 2% of the 'radio' listening audience.
 
I am not arguing about whether things have changed. I am arguing that playlists have become homogenized and FM music radio, by and large, has become a huge bore.
Maybe a huge bore to you, but your tastes are not an indicator of a much larger audience.
Yet there is huge difference in ethic make up and tastes between markets. Miami CHR should not sound the same as Des Moines CHR. Miami Country should not sound the same as Tuscaloosa Country.
The common aspect though, is successful radio stations play the hits. The hits, as divided between formats and cultural aspects of taste, are still hits. There are hits in every format.
Then why has iHeart invested in local afternoon "yakkers" on the CHR stations in two of its biggest markets - Philly and Boston?
As David pointed out; talent is utilized across multiple markets via live simulcast or voicetracks. As someone else pointed out (apologies for missing who), that I can see a day where remaining radio talent are, like most movie and TV actors/actresses, become contractors instead of employees.
 
And when I was growing up, WPOW was the closest thing Miami had to a CHR station. In fact, before 6 PM, WPOW played some Rock-leaning songs that Churban stations did not play. I have a tape of WPOW from 1993, and Duran Duran's "Ordinary Word" was played during Kid Curry's midday show. At the time, Y-100 was best described as Hot AC and it was targeting Fort Lauderdale more than Miami.
Again, it was a format that principally targeted Hispanics and was what maybe we could call Hispanic Rhythmic.

It was definitely not targeting fort Lauderdale more than Miami as back 30 years ago Dade was nearly twice the population of Broward.

Note: I collaborated or worked with Tanner on multiple occasions, going back to when he was at WJDX and I was at WERC, and then at Y-100 and WHTT in the 70's and again with him for many years with Cecil Heftel at HBC.
Listeners might not want chatter, but ownership loves to dump salaries too.
Ownership does not like to pay for things that are not needed.
And without jocks, it's hard to come up with a compelling reason to tune into radio instead of the non-radio competition. But all you have done is defend the status quo.
That is a different issue involving options with no commercials that you have to subscribe to and pay for vs. those with commercials but which are free. That's not at al related to the fact that most listeners in demographics that are salable don't want DJ chatter unless it has interesting and unique content.
 
I have known several '90s-era MDs who conducted local research. They were from top 50 markets, not Albany or Tallahassee.
For it to be worthwhile, it has to be done with professional recruitment by a professional research company. A couple of large groups have had their own research divisions, such as Clear Chanel and HBC. Most hire companies like NuVooDoo or Harker or Coleman or Edison.

Some stations used to do their own local callout on currents, but using software and procedures they bought from one of a couple of providers like ComQuest.
Of course this is a factor. But how can one ignore the ethnic make up of a market today? Y-100 in Miami sounds a heck of a lot like KGOT/Anchorage, at least musically. Those markets have zero in common.
And Y-100 totally destroyed its heritage of being highly Hispanic focused and very rhythmic. That is the mistake of management.
If the latter were the case, then why isn't there a national program on every daypart on every station? It's telling that iHeart, which has the bodies and resources to do it, still has local programming in mornings and afternoons in the biggest markets.
That is where we are heading, but the biggest issue is that no company owns a set of stations in the same format in all of the top 50 to 100 markets. So the process of doing what is standard nearly everywhere in the world is just not yet implemented here.

Heck, it has taken 25 years for US radio companies to understand how to operate multiple stations in the same market. I still hear of cases where there are prohibitions for any sister station playing any of the same songs as another station in the cluster.
 
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