iHeartMedia clusters that have zero local personalities

[Kent]

We clearly lived in different areas. I was able to witness huge diversity from my own bedroom. My home market was West Palm Beach and the distant market was Miami. When I was growing up, there was a gigantic difference between WOVV in West Palm and WPOW in Miami.

I grew up mostly in Texas and Oklahoma. I'm mostly a Southwestern and Midwestern person. I was able to get CHR's from Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and Ft. Smith, and they weren't much different from one another. KZBS "Z99" in Oklahoma City was more aggressive musically than OKC's other CHR, KJ103, and the Tulsa and Ft. Smith CHR's. Z99, however, never beat KJ103 and rarely even as much as gave it a scare. At any given time, all three markets' CHR's were playing pretty much the same currents in similar rotation. Z99 broke more new songs, but, even then, during the three years I listened (88-91, when it became KYIS), you could probably count on one hand the number of songs it broke that weren't already on people's radars and weren't already climbing in major markets. Most of those that fit that category didn't go anywhere. Think Pajama Party's "Over and Over" as one example. Never heard that anywhere but Z99, and it never cracked the top-40.

I think this is the exception to the rule. iHeart has gutted their cluster in my local market of West Palm. In other markets I follow, Cumulus, for what it is worth, has gutted airstaff too. I noticed this on the Space Coast.

These days, they're gutting everywhere. When my local cluster was bought by Cumulus, live radio from 6 AM to 6 PM was very much the norm. There were a few isolated Clear Channel stations that were clones of other stations and used all out of market talent and a larger number of small market satellite operations, but live radio during the daytime was pretty normal in most markets of any decent size. I like live and local radio as much as the next person, but I can tell you I've heard some really bad talent in the smaller markets and some less than impressive ones in large markets. I'm not convinced the imported talent from larger markets at iHeart and Cumulus makes for better radio today, but I'm not convinced it's any worse either. I know people say nobody turns to radio for immediacy anymore, but I'm also not convinced that's a good strategy nor am I convinced that hasn't been a self-fulfilling prophecy. Cumulus sliced all that local talent before most of us got smartphones. If radio had any competitive edge, it surrendered it before it had significant competition. When I turn to my local Cumulus properties during bad weather, an element we used to have when we were live is definitely lost. If, however, the only viable alternative would be to have the board op who works at the local college radio station stumble through the bulletins and trying to interpret the radar, the TV audio is probably better.

 

[TheBigA]

I know people say nobody turns to radio for immediacy anymore, but I'm also not convinced that's a good strategy nor am I convinced that hasn't been a self-fulfilling prophecy.

My take on that is that radio was never as immediate as having people where news happens. There is no radio or TV station that will ever have enough reporters on staff to cover news when it happens. Because it just happens, and then you have to dispatch reporters there, which takes time, and then they have to ask questions, put their report together, and file. It's much quicker and more immediate to have the people who are already there put something on twitter or wherever. That will always be more immediate than doing it professionally. Everyone now has the ability to become on site reporters. That didn't exist 25 years ago.

As for local DJs, the magic of that ended in the 1980s when people would buy a couple of turntables and offer themselves as party DJs around the country. They didn't need to work in a farm system. They didn't have to work the overnight shift. They just had to buy some equipment and let people know they would DJ their wedding or birthday. No skill or experience needed. That meant anybody could be a DJ. I think that really hurt the value of that role on the radio.

 

[gr8oldies]

My take on that is that radio was never as immediate as having people where news happens. There is no radio or TV station that will ever have enough reporters on staff to cover news when it happens. Because it just happens, and then you have to dispatch reporters there, which takes time, and then they have to ask questions, put their report together, and file. It's much quicker and more immediate to have the people who are already there put something on twitter or wherever. That will always be more immediate than doing it professionally. Everyone now has the ability to become on site reporters. That didn't exist 25 years ago.

As for local DJs, the magic of that ended in the 1980s when people would buy a couple of turntables and offer themselves as party DJs around the country. They didn't need to work in a farm system. They didn't have to work the overnight shift. They just had to buy some equipment and let people know they would DJ their wedding or birthday. No skill or experience needed. That meant anybody could be a DJ. I think that really hurt the value of that role on the radio.

Technically anybody could set themselves up as a wedding DJ (I personally sucked at it), but the ones who could keep the crowd entertained, keep the lines moving, keep the bride, mother of the bride, and an age-diverse crowd enjoying the evening is worth more money than they can probably bill. Then still having to obtain licensed music while others play YouTube videos....the list goes on.

Problem with Twitter (or Facebook, or Neighborhood) being the "news" is it being totally unvetted.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Management, Programming, Air-Staff Changes At iHeart Texas.

Several changes at iHeartMedia stations in Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin as Dallas Region President Kelly Kibler exits after 25 years with the company and Matt Martin, President of the

www.insideradio.com

Iheart had a recent staff change. If one is wondering how did this happen why radio sounds homogenized it can be tied to corporate consolidating market managers to effectively cover a region.

Several changes at iHeartMedia stations in Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin as Dallas Region President Kelly Kibler exits after 25 years with the company and Matt Martin, President of the company’s San Antonio and Austin markets, departs after nearly 30 years with the group.

The three markets will now be overseen by Detroit Region President Paul Corvino.

Kibler has been in the lead role in Dallas since 2011 and previously served as Executive VP of Operations for Texas Major Markets and Executive VP/Multicultural Marketing. She also served as Las Vegas Market President from 2002-2004 and as San Diego Market President from 2004-2005.

 

[TheBigA]

Iheart had a recent staff change. If one is wondering how did this happen why radio sounds homogenized it can be tied to corporate consolidating market managers to effectively cover a region.

The changes in this story really only affect KEGL Dallas, a station that changed formats a couple weeks ago.

Unless market managers also pull on air shifts, which I'm not aware of.

 

[TheBigA]

Problem with Twitter (or Facebook, or Neighborhood) being the "news" is it being totally unvetted.

I don't advocate using twitter as news, although twitter utilizes some established reporting for its feeds.

In fact twitter & facebook have now agreed to paying journalistic sources for their content.

 

[ScottBurns]

Yet the ethnic composition of the two markets is hugely different. Power was very Hispanic targeted in its best years, and , going back before that, so was Y-100.

Then here is a comparison from two similar markets. WOVV and WAOA were very different in the '90s. WOVV leaned AC during the day; they leaned more traditional CHR at night. WAOA was much more straight-up CHR. WOVV played many AC-type songs that WAOA did not touch. These stations are about 60 miles apart.

 

[ScottBurns]

What the biggest factor is today is the loss of about two-thirds of radio's revenue over the last two decades.

And most of us don't think of the word "compelling" in relation to our stations. "Entertaining" fits morning shows that are good, while being "good company" fits most of the rest of the day on music stations.

Well, I disagree. Radio should aim higher. It should be compelling. I've seen interviews with Howard Stern, who knows a thing or two about radio, and he has said that this is what he always aimed to be. Yes, he is a morning host. But he wasn't always a morning driver.

 

[ScottBurns]

And I've read similar comments too here. A handful of armchair PD's also aren't indicative of the greater radio audience.

If put downs ("armchair PDs") help you make your case, go for it.

But Classic Hit's-music is researched and deemed as hits. Playing deep album tracks from the same artists or even classic albums, even occasionally, aren't playing the hits. To a listener who likes that style/vintage of music, Stairway to Heaven is just as much as hit to someone in Boise as it is to a listener in Syracuse.

Former top-three-on-the-charts songs are not "deep cuts." When was the last time you heard a Classic Hits station play "Dancing in the Dark?" That song hit number two and was a smash. There's no reason that only two Springsteen songs ever get played on Audacy or iHeart Classic Hits stations ("Born in the U.S.A." and "Glory Days," both of which never hit number one). He had many other hits.

So you're saying, in your example, some Classic Hits are more popular in some regions than other's? I'll buy that to an extent for pop and maybe Hot AC but that's about it.

I'm not sure, but I'm willing to bet they're live and local in other iHeart markets too. In your opinion, is that a problem?

Let's use iHeart's PM Driver on Boston's Kiss as an example. While Mikey V is live in Boston, he voicetracks on dozens of stations. For example, he voicetracks on iHeart's Classic Hip Hop stations. I am not a fan of voicetracking, but again, that is just my opinion.

 

[davideduardo]

These stations are about 60 miles apart.

And 60 miles can mean the difference in the racial and ethnic composition of a market.

In many cases, when we have a market with high Black and / or Hispanic populations those communities have a huge influence on the music tastes of the whole market. In particular, when groups are fervent followers of rhythmic music shows, clubs and even parties tend to mirror the "feel" of the market.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, I disagree. Radio should aim higher. It should be compelling.

Radio is a companion for people as they do other things, like driving, working, cutting the lawn and the like. There can be compelling moments, but moments don't make a #1 station while companionship can.

I've seen interviews with Howard Stern, who knows a thing or two about radio, and he has said that this is what he always aimed to be. Yes, he is a morning host. But he wasn't always a morning driver.

And he was not particularly successful before he developed a morning style.

And, with today's precise PPM measurement, Stern would not likely even have been in the top 10 morning shows in markets like LA and New York.

 

[ScottBurns]

And 60 miles can mean the difference in the racial and ethnic composition of a market.

In many cases, when we have a market with high Black and / or Hispanic populations those communities have a huge influence on the music tastes of the whole market. In particular, when groups are fervent followers of rhythmic music shows, clubs and even parties tend to mirror the "feel" of the market.

And my point is that today, there are no differences in playlists in markets - with different ethnic compositions - that are 60 miles apart. That is a problem.

But the other point of that reply is that WOVV and WAOA, at the time, came from markets that were similar in ethnic population. The stations were still quite different. Today, both stations remain CHRs. One is owned by iHeart and the other by Cumulus. Their playlists and presentations are extremely similar.

 

[ScottBurns]

Radio is a companion for people as they do other things, like driving, working, cutting the lawn and the like. There can be compelling moments, but moments don't make a #1 station while companionship can.

Well, we can agree to disagree.

And he was not particularly successful before he developed a morning style.

And, with today's precise PPM measurement, Stern would not likely even have been in the top 10 morning shows in markets like LA and New York.

Stern was successful at WNBC in the afternoon.

And while I am not a fan of PPM, I would still posit that Stern's success speaks for itself.

 

[davideduardo]

Former top-three-on-the-charts songs are not "deep cuts."

They are "way too deep" if they don't test today. Radio is not a museum. If a song loses its appeal, even if it was #1 for weeks in the past, it is unplayable today.

When was the last time you heard a Classic Hits station play "Dancing in the Dark?" That song hit number two and was a smash.

"Was" is past tense. History.

There's no reason that only two Springsteen songs ever get played on Audacy or iHeart Classic Hits stations ("Born in the U.S.A." and "Glory Days," both of which never hit number one). He had many other hits.

Past tense again. They are not hits today. When researched, listeners reject them.

Let's use iHeart's PM Driver on Boston's Kiss as an example. While Mikey V is live in Boston, he voicetracks on dozens of stations. For example, he voicetracks on iHeart's Classic Hip Hop stations. I am not a fan of voicetracking, but again, that is just my opinion.

TV discovered in the later 50's that a national night show after local news was much better than a local show. It has taken radio a long time to start realizing that there are only a few truly great talents and they should be put on as many signals as possible.

 

[ScottBurns]

They are "way too deep" if they don't test today. Radio is not a museum. If a song loses its appeal, even if it was #1 for weeks in the past, it is unplayable today.

So "Dancing in the Dark" has tested poorly across every major market in the country? Or just a few markets?

"Was" is past tense. History.

Past tense again. They are not hits today. When researched, listeners reject them.

TV discovered in the later 50's that a national night show after local news was much better than a local show. It has taken radio a long time to start realizing that there are only a few truly great talents and they should be put on as many signals as possible.

I find it hard to believe that listeners reject all but about 150 or so Classic Hits songs. But OK.

You have admitted yourself that TV and radio are different media. I have even read you saying that you did not even like TV.

 

[davideduardo]

And my point is that today, there are no differences in playlists in markets - with different ethnic compositions - that are 60 miles apart. That is a problem.

But there are differences in the total stations in each kind of format. Memphis has 6 urban variations in the top 10. Denver has none.

But the hits in each format are pretty much the same. But the potential audience for specific format types is determined by the market.

But the other point of that reply is that WOVV and WAOA, at the time, came from markets that were similar in ethnic population. The stations were still quite different. Today, both stations remain CHRs. One is owned by iHeart and the other by Cumulus. Their playlists and presentations are extremely similar.

You are talking about the past in two much smaller markets that are heavily populated by retirees.

Ft. Pierce local stations only account for 30% of local listening in the market, and in Melbourne outside stations get over 60% of all listening.

 

[ScottBurns]

But there are differences in the total stations in each kind of format. Memphis has 6 urban variations in the top 10. Denver has none.

But the hits in each format are pretty much the same. But the potential audience for specific format types is determined by the market.

Why is that true today but it was not true 25 years ago? It defies logic that the same exact songs will be popular everywhere at all times.

You are talking about the past in two much smaller markets that are heavily populated by retirees.

Ft. Pierce local stations only account for 30% of local listening in the market, and in Melbourne outside stations get over 60% of all listening.

West Palm Beach is not a "much smaller market." WOVV, while its license has historically been Fort Pierce, has been a West Palm station for many decades. It hasn't focused on the Treasure Coast since the 1960s, when it was WIRA.

 

[davideduardo]

So "Dancing in the Dark" has tested poorly across every major market in the country? Or just a few markets?

I don't see it being played in markets big enough to afford their own research. Obviously, it does not test nationally.

I find it hard to believe that listeners reject all but about 150 or so Classic Hits songs. But OK.

The average Classic Hits station has well over 600 songs in rotation and they play in proportion to appeal. In a few highly fragmented markets like LA, the list is smaller and that is because it is very hard to find consensus songs.

You have admitted yourself that TV and radio are different media. I have even read you saying that you did not even like TV.

I do not dislike TV. I have preferences for certain types of shows, as essentially everyone does. For example, very few comedy shows exist that I find funny because most are very Americanized and I just don't relate. But I am a rather high user of TV, in fact.

 

[ScottBurns]

I don't see it being played in markets big enough to afford their own research. Obviously, it does not test nationally.

The average Classic Hits station has well over 600 songs in rotation and they play in proportion to appeal. In a few highly fragmented markets like LA, the list is smaller and that is because it is very hard to find consensus songs.

The big stations might have over 600, but it's frequency that matters. And far, far fewer songs are in heavy rotation. Hence how boring these stations sound.

I do not dislike TV. I have preferences for certain types of shows, as essentially everyone does. For example, very few comedy shows exist that I find funny because most are very Americanized and I just don't relate. But I am a rather high user of TV, in fact.

My apologies.

 

[davideduardo]

Why is that true today but it was not true 25 years ago? It defies logic that the same exact songs will be popular everywhere at all times.

Yet the same TV shows and fast food menus and car models and... are pretty much liked the same way nationally.

West Palm Beach is not a "much smaller market." WOVV, while its license has historically been Fort Pierce, has been a West Palm station for many decades. It hasn't focused on the Treasure Coast since the 1960s, when it was WIRA.

Then why did it change calls and format? Today, it cumes more in Ft Pierce than in West Palm Beach, a sure sign of a rimshot station. It has retained a share over a 6 for a decade in Ft. Pierce, but is down to the low 2's in West Palm Beach.

And 55% of West Palm Beach listening goes to out-of-market stations. That is a bad market to use for comparisons and analysis, just as other smaller peripheral markets like Riverside-San Bernardino and Nassau-Suffolk are similarly bad.