(Il)Legal IDs

[IMean]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the city of license should be part of a legal ID. During the Bama game on WBBK, they were only using Dothan on their top hour IDs. Isn't their city of license Blakely, Ga.?

 

[rew]

My understanding is that the city of license has to be the first named then other cities in the coverage area can be named next.

 

[jobhunter]

A LEGAL ID must be "Hourly, as close to the top as feasible, at a natural break in program offerings." and the station "must announce their legal call letters followed immediately by the station’s community of license."

As long as you do those two things, (in that order) it doesn't matter what else you put in a Legal ID.

It should sound like: WBBK blakely DOTHAN

 

[Poledo]

So I take it you're going to file a complaint with the FCC and get this all fixed?

 

[tomservo]

TOH IDs being wrong is one of those things that I guess doesn't really hurt anyone, but it's a sign of how little stations care these days to obey the rules, even the minor ones. Believe me, it's not just WBBK that screws it up — I'd wager 30% of stations in the state do it wrong every day.

 

[StrayKats]

Moreso than not being worded correctly, the timing is off when the computer goes awry for some reason at many stations.

WNZZ in Montgomery often has this issue. Their non-legal IDs and legal IDs are timed every hour to play at an exact second - xx:19:50 (example) during their satellite programming and a correctly-timed non-legal ID will be immediately followed by the end of the hour legal ID which should take place at xx:59:50, usually playing over music or a non-local commercial advertisement. When xx:59.50 arrives, it's 10 seconds of dead air because the legal ID has already played earlier in the hour.

Somebody will finally correct the error, until it gets thrown off again and the cycle repeats for hours.

Other computer-controlled stations have the same or similar problems.

 

[jobhunter]

Believe me, it's not just WBBK that screws it up — I'd wager 30% of stations in the state do it wrong every day.

I would agree. I hear stations doing it wrong all the time. My favorite is the buried legal at :40 and then a big produced jingle/ramp/stinger at the top.

WRONG!

 

[Poledo]

I thought the FCC dropped the "as close to the toh as possible" part of the regulation a couple years back? Or at least let it be known that it wasn't going to be enforced as long as they did a legal id every hour.

 

[mrlayne]

Moreso than not being worded correctly, the timing is off when the computer goes awry for some reason at many stations.

WNZZ in Montgomery often has this issue. Their non-legal IDs and legal IDs are timed every hour to play at an exact second - xx:19:50 (example) during their satellite programming and a correctly-timed non-legal ID will be immediately followed by the end of the hour legal ID which should take place at xx:59:50, usually playing over music or a non-local commercial advertisement. When xx:59.50 arrives, it's 10 seconds of dead air because the legal ID has already played earlier in the hour.

Somebody will finally correct the error, until it gets thrown off again and the cycle repeats for hours.

won't happen, the PD of the am stations for cumulus has higher priorities than WNZZ.

 

[KMichaelsMEI]

This is an interesting topic for radio geeks, like myself. As far as, "most people do it incorrectly?" You bet. The crazy thing, it's so simple. I can remember as a kid saying, "this is WXXX, Chicago." It was actually something taught. lol. No names, I'm just making conversation... I actually accepted a GM job a few years back. In Alabama. Rollin' in, the morning jock would "pop that mic" and "walk up to the news." - "7 now at WXXX, City."- It finally slapped me in the face. The station was licensed to a city about 20 miles away. So, basically for years and years... that operation just picked the city they wanted to be licensed. Oh, one more... this is the best. A very huge non-com buys a commercial frequency. They are actually an Alabama city of license- and for months, every hour....they throw the calls out and a Mississippi city of license. Just shop talk. Umm, maybe we can go back to, "at the tone... it will be exactly 12 O'clock... newstime!" -lol

 

[w9wi]

I thought the FCC dropped the "as close to the toh as possible" part of the regulation a couple years back? Or at least let it be known that it wasn't going to be enforced as long as they did a legal id every hour.

The rule is still there:

(2) Hourly, as close to the hour as feasible, at a natural break in program offerings.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title47-vol4/xml/CFR-2009-title47-vol4-sec73-1201.xml

To my knowledge they've never announced that they don't intend to enforce it -- but they certainly aren't enforcing it!

 

[fybush]

Every once in a while, you'll still see a citation written up for a violation of 73.1201...but not by itself. Instead, it will come as part of a laundry list of violations of other rules. It's been suggested to me that FCC inspectors use the legal ID as an indication of overall compliance: if the station hits the ID properly and routinely, it's a good bet the rest of the station is in compliance, too. If the station doesn't ID properly, it's often a sign that there are other problems, too, and that's when the inspectors move in.

 

[RollTide]

I think the FCC rule also states (or at least used to) that the only word you are allowed to say in between the legal call letters and the city of license is the word "in". It's never been a requirement but is considered acceptable. The only station I've ever heard do it like this though is WJAB. They usually say "From the campus of Alabama A&M University, this is 90.9 WJAB IN Huntsville."

I've heard several stations do it wrong myself as well. I remember scanning through the dial many years ago and stopping on WEUP for a moment near the top of the hour. It was way back when 92.1 in Minor Hill, TN was their primary FM signal, they used a translator in Huntsville on 96.1, and they simulcasted the FM and AM stations (lord I feel old now LOL!). The legal ID said "WEUP, AM 1600, Huntsville. WEUP 92.1 FM Minor Hill-Pulaski, W241AA 96.1 Huntsville." I remember thinking lord that was all kind of wrong there! They said the frequency in between each call letter and city of license, and left out the "FM" on the official legal calls WEUP-FM when IDing 92.1. Atleast it was at the top of the hour and city of licenses correct though, and they attempted to ID the translator (which many stations just don't even do) even though it was wrong as well. The last time I heard them Legal ID these stations it was done properly though, so at least over the years they have fixed it.

Speaking of, I don't listen to urban much, but I have NEVER heard WEUP-FM ever ID any of their translators they currently have. They never even mention them on the air at all that I've ever heard. They aren't the only ones using translators that never ID them either. Doesn't FCC rule state that translators have to be IDed once every 3 hours (or something like that) following the same rule of call letters followed immediately by city of license? I hear WAY-FM ID all of their many translators once every few hours in one big long ID drop LOL. All of them done correctly too! They have always been very compliant will all FCC regulations though.

 

[w9wi]

I think the FCC rule also states (or at least used to) that the only word you are allowed to say in between the legal call letters and the city of license is the word "in". It's never been a requirement but is considered acceptable. The only station I've ever heard do it like this though is WJAB. They usually say "From the campus of Alabama A&M University, this is 90.9 WJAB IN Huntsville."

From 73.1201 on http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title47-vol4/xml/CFR-2009-title47-vol4-sec73-1201.xml:

(b) Content. (1) Official station identification shall consist of the station's call letters immediately followed by the community or communities specified in its license as the station's location; Provided, That the name of the licensee, the station's frequency, the station's channel number, as stated on the station's license, and/or the station's network affiliation may be inserted between the call letters and station location.

(it then goes on to add nine lines full of new material related to DTV and HD Radio only)

So there are several permissible insertions -- although the word "in" is NOT among them! That said, I see absolutely ZERO chance the FCC will ever prosecute anyone for saying "WJAB in Huntsville".

What I *think* is going on with this regulation.. is that the FCC didn't want station WQRP in TinyTown to mislead the audience into believing it was located in BigCity. Apparently that was a problem in the 1930s.

The legal ID said "WEUP, AM 1600, Huntsville. WEUP 92.1 FM Minor Hill-Pulaski, W241AA 96.1 Huntsville." I remember thinking lord that was all kind of wrong there! They said the frequency in between each call letter and city of license, and left out the "FM" on the official legal calls WEUP-FM when IDing 92.1. Atleast it was at the top of the hour and city of licenses correct though, and they attempted to ID the translator (which many stations just don't even do) even though it was wrong as well. The last time I heard them Legal ID these stations it was done properly though, so at least over the years they have fixed it.

It should have been "WEUP-FM 92.1 Minor Hill", but the way I read it the rest of this is perfectly legal. (and again I see zero chance the FCC would bother them for leaving out the -FM)

Speaking of, I don't listen to urban much, but I have NEVER heard WEUP-FM ever ID any of their translators they currently have. They never even mention them on the air at all that I've ever heard. They aren't the only ones using translators that never ID them either. Doesn't FCC rule state that translators have to be IDed once every 3 hours (or something like that) following the same rule of call letters followed immediately by city of license? I hear WAY-FM ID all of their many translators once every few hours in one big long ID drop LOL. All of them done correctly too! They have always been very compliant will all FCC regulations though.

There are two ways to ID translators:

- Arrange to have the primary station (the station being relayed) announce the translator call letters & location three times daily -- once between 7 and 9am, once at 1pm +/- 5 minutes, and once between 4 and 6pm. (that's three IDs a day, not an ID every 3 hours)

- Transmit the call letters by Morse Code, hourly, using one of two technical methods. (neither of which is normally audible on a standard FM radio) Note that if you use Morse you don't have to give the city of license.

Point being, there's a very good chance these translators are all IDing legally, even though you can't hear the IDs.

 

[RollTide]

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing all that up! I haven't seen the regulations on it in quite a long time. I appreciate that. I knew three was in there somewhere about the translators lol! And you are right, I doubt the FCC would make any kind of fuss about the word "in" being there, and weup is probably IDing the translators and I've just never heard it before. Then again, I don't really listen to them much either so.

 

[William_Yeager]

The first "illegal" ID I remember was the old WRRS-FM (now WYDE). Just before the top of the hour, the ID would correctly, but unceremonially, be given as "WRRS, Cullman" and then shortly after the top of the hour the ID would be given as "WRRS, Birmingham".

 

[secondchoice]

The first "illegal" ID I remember was the old WRRS-FM (now WYDE). Just before the top of the hour, the ID would correctly, but unceremonially, be given as "WRRS, Cullman" and then shortly after the top of the hour the ID would be given as "WRRS, Birmingham".

I think you are correct about the "barely legal". WSB does in a muffled voice "WSBB Doraville" AM 750 and now 95.5 WSB Atlanta's, News, Weather, and traffic station. I guess "Atlanta's" is now the city of license.

I was told that one of the reasons radio stations ID was as a navigation aid to aircraft. If you look at a pre WW2 aircraft, it most likely will have a radio direction finding "loop" somewhere on the fuselage. The navigator / radio man would find a good signal, catch the ID, draw a line on the map at that angle from that city. Then find another signal catch the ID and draw a line on the map at that angle. Were the two crossed was his location. Remember these were tube receivers so was it 890 WLS Chicago or 880 WCBS New York? The ID would tell you. IIRC you use to have to ID within 2 or 3 minutes on the top and bottom of the hour. Now with VOR's and GPS that is a bit "old fashion" but a lot of commercial pilots "pre" 80 90 use to listen to the 50KW clears for baseball games or music. WSM and WLS (depending on your musical tastes) were used by some flight crews.