ILLEGAL STATION FROM ETSU

[J-Street]

There is another illegal station up and running on 106.7 fm. It's ran out of a dorm at ETSU. My old buddies in the broadcasting department have had major problems with this guy before. He's used their name, their stuff and all sorts of things. Can someome PLEASE let me know the best/easiest way to turn this guy in and bust him so I can pass the info along. See for yourself... It's rather pathetic.

http://aaronsnet.com/s/detour/index.php

 

[Radio-X]

1) In most schools, it's an honor violation to do something illegal on school property. I wouldn't even go to the FCC. Go to somebody at ETSU and have the honor board or whatnot prosecute him. Show evidence that it's illegal, say that its using ETSU's name or likeness, and above all, say it's interfering with your radio reception.

But, if you really want to try to get the FCC involved (kinda tricky) call 1-888-225-5322 and go from there. You'll probably be sent to a field office in Atlanta.

But really, why not talk to the guy running the operation? Might be able to smooth things out and keep everybody happy.

Radio-X

 

[J-Street]

Thanks for the info Richmond. As far as talking to the person. Been there a million times! I even have a friend who runs a rather popular weather website who's doing the guy's forecasts. We (being myself and faculty) tried to let him know the site was illegal but he's getting paid so he doesn't care at the moment. I'll pass the information you gave me along to the faculty and new management there. Thanks!

 

[aaronsnet]

LOL. Obviously you haven't even tried to pick up the station on 106.7 yourself, or you would know that the station is not broadcast from a dorm room. It is being broadcast on a low power transmitter LEGALLY that is < 1 watt (as allowed by FCC regulations) from off-campus. We have developed a plan to place several of these these transmitters around the Tri-Cities in the future to cover the 106.7 frequency. Hopefully the FCC will re-open the door for LP licenses (which we have the application ready to go). The coverage is pretty limited at the present time, but soon hope to change that.

To fill in the other side of the story...

The only contact "J-Street" that he has ever made with me was a MySpace message once proclaiming that what we were doing was illegal and that ETSU's current radio stations were the one and only stations.

The only "major problems" that the broadcasting department @ ETSU has had wsith me was responding to inquries of ine. I had requested to simulcast some of the ETSU student radio shows through the internet LEGALLY (since the "real" student station only broadcasts through the campus cable system). Both times they said they would look into it, but would never return my e-mails or phone calls.

As far as using the name, the only thing the station ever did was use the school's name ("the detour serving ETSU"). We never used any copyrighted logos, etc. As far as with the Edge (the "student" radio station @ ETSU) we voluntarly placed a banner on our web site with a link to their site to help promote them. We even got permission to use the East Tennesseean's XML feed on our web site. Another point, we have placed disclaimers of the bottom of most web pages stating that we aren't affliated with ETSU or TBR in anyway. The station is actually switching focus from just ETSU to the entire Tri-Cities area.

What makes the station pathetic? That it isn't following a pre-determined format like most coporpate radio stations? That it's not run by "broadcasting" majors? The station really must be pathetic, even though we've been able to draw advertisers and listeners.

Why did I create the station? To give students and community members a chance to play what they want to play and say what they want to. As I expressed to the broadcasting deparment before, the station was not going to be in competition with anyone (hence the banner placed on our site for the Edge). The Edge only allows people in Intro to Broadcasting to get on the air. Even then, they are required to act as if they are in a regular, corporate radio station. You are required to pick songs from the adult alternative format, make sure it fits within the hour, and say scripted things. Now I do understand that the Edge is used for training future broadcasting students for a real radio station, but I have always felt that DJ's at college stations should be free to do what they wish. This is why the staton was created..to give people that oppurtunity.

Also, we are really pushing to blur the boundaries that corporate radio stations have created. We want people to enjoy music from any genre whether it be independent or main stream. One major focus of the station is to help promote local music. We receive severel CD's each week from bands wanting us to add their music.

What makes us illegal? We are within FCC limits, paying royalties, etc. Is it illegal to start a brand new radio station without being owned by Citadel or Clear Channel? Please...can you clarify what makes us illegal?

If you'd like to talk to me about this in person "J-Street", feel free to e-mail me @ [email protected] ... I remember responding to your MySpace message, but never got a message in return?

Good luck turning me into ETSU or the FCC.

btw... the weather guy does it voluntarly and is not paid. We do provide him with publicity for the weather site in return.

Just thought I'd fill everyone in.

aaron
the detour - ETSU/Tri-Cities, TN
http://etsudetour.com

 

[SuperQ]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but make sure they understand that < 1 watt is not legal. < 25 milliwatts is not legal.

250 microvolts/m field strength at a set distance is the law. Essentially, if they can stop a car radio scanner more than a couple hundred feet from the transmitter, they are either illegal, or you have a very sensitive car radio. If you can hear it more than a quarter of a mile, it is most decidedly illegal. The equivalent to a city grade signal on a legal Part 15 FM transmitter is a couple of feet.

If they're throwing up a bunch of 1 watt transmitters around town, they're not rascally little scamps, they're criminals, and ETSU should be aware of that fact.

 

[aaronsnet]

We aren't using 1 watt transmitters..we are using a Part 15 FM transmitter (I wasn't sure of the exact output for the previous post..but knew it was less then 1 watt). SuperQ is right..it only gets out a little bit (although when we place it higher, it seems to get out farther). We were actually thinking about trying out a Part 15 AM transmitter. From what I have researched, they can get out a little farther compared to a FM transmitter depending on the height and quality of the antenna. Is this true?

 

[J-Street]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but make sure they understand that < 1 watt is not legal. < 25 milliwatts is not legal.

ENOUGH SAID! Wow, looks like someone got their feathers a little ruffled, huh? Are you making any $ yet? Exactly. I no longer have a dog in this fight either, actually, just trying to help out the FACULTY and STUDENTS who have slaved and tried to work their way into the business. I was the only one willing to listen to Aaron's suggestions, not the faculty or other students at the station. The people I'm looking out for are people aren't losers with no friends who sit in their dorm rooms with nothing better to do than run a PIRATE radio station. Like SuperQ said, it's very illegal buddy. In order for you to even broadcast online WITH registration from ASCAP/BMI your parents must be loaded, I don't doubt that may be the case, because it usually is with most spoiled individuals. I would turn you in myself, but it's no longer my fight or my cause. Why? Because some of us have jobs at REAL radio stations. But if you REALLY did your research, you would learn that "The EDGE" is neither an ADULT ALTERNATIVE radio station NOR "scripted." Good luck, my friend.

 

[J-Street]

So I feel in my last post, I felt like TightWad talking about HVB. If aaron would really like to work something out with ETSU's official radio station, he should contact Brittany Moore (station manager), Candy Bryant (faculty advisor) or Tom Headley (head of the dept.) and I can get those #'s to him. I'm more than willing to be a "middle-man" in that situation, tried once before, but I know they will require some proof of legality. My days there are behind me (outside of programming in my free time), it comes with the degree. But aaron should seriously ask permission before the so-called "free banner ad," seeing how there is some false information in it and there has been "cheap-shots" on the site before. But I can say, the original person who gave the axe to any communication is no longer there.

 

[aaronsnet]

In response...

1. We aren't trying to make any money. All advertising money is used to pay for the costs of running the station. That's it. There is absolutley no profit.

2. I agree...the people at the Edge have done a great amount of work...but so have we. Several people have slaved to collect music, program the station, and work out some of the things we have...all without being paid.

3. Yes... we are all losers with no friends and no life.

4. SuperQ said that it is only illegal if you are broadcasting above the FCC's allowable wattage. When you use an FCC approved Part 15 transmitter (such as we are), then you are meeting that standard. I guess we still are a pirate station in your eyes, right?

5. As far as funding for the station, it actually comes out of pocket from staff members and the advertising revenue. You are right about the cost of licensing an online station directly with BMI/ASCAP. We, however, are not licensed directly with them. We go through a service that provides small broadcasters the oppurtunity to be licensed for CHEAP. Did you know that you can run an online station for under $100 including licensing?

6. Did my research? I think it is you who hasn't a clue about the Edge. If you look at the Edge's MySpace page, it says... "Our format at EDGE Radio is a perfect blend of Rock, Adult Alternative and Alternative music with a little taste Pop music, so I guess you could say its ADULT ROCK ALTERNATIVE." Ok... I'm sorry.. I left one word out. "Adult ROCK Alternative." Scripted? Yes indeed my friend... I have had several friends of mine take the class, and tell me how very strict it is to do what you want when you put in your required hour each week.

Why do people at the corporate "REAL" radio stations view all independent stations as merley pirate. What exactly defines a pirate station? To be considered a non-pirate station, will I need to have a FCC license and look "official?" .. maybe be affiliated officially with a university or organization? I guess with this sort of reasoning we can consider all internet radio stations pirate!

This is the great thing about the internet. ANYONE can setup a radio station with a LITTLE bit of money. We are no longer tied down by the FCC or having to listen to the "real" radio stations.

We are through dealing the Edge. After 2 semesters of no response, we are through. We really did want to work some sort of partnership out with them, but got tired of getting no response. We figured that they would and could use the outlet to get off campus, but I guess they weren't interested. The Edge can keep broadcasting to all of their faithful on-campus listeners through channel 13. We need to ask permission to help promote someone else's website? I've always been under the impression that if someone was going to give me free promotion, that I would gladly accept it AND thank them for it. Don't worry...the banner is going to be removed anyways.

I would turn you in myself, but it's no longer my fight or my cause. Why? Because some of us have jobs at REAL radio stations.

What would you turn in? What in the world do you have to prove that what we are doing is illegal?

Thank you J-Street for fueling even more inspiration to keep the station growing. Your "REAL" radio views really define exactly why we the detour is here. I hope that everyone that walks out of the ETSU Broadcasting department do not share your same viewpoints.

 

[Johnny Morgan]

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf

That should pretty much solve this discussion.

Also, merely operating with a Part 15-compliant transmitter is meaningless if the transmitter is causing any interference with a licensed operation. As I've read, this Edge station broadcasts on 106.7 MHz. There is a licensed facility at 106.9 MHz (WMIT) which had Johnson City within its local contour.

ANY interference to this station by a purportedly Part 15 station is illegal. Read the PART 15 Regulations. It's very clear.

Edge folks: I'd suggest contacting counsel and an engineer before doing this again.

 

[spindoctor1]

Amen Mr. Morgan, Amen.

 

[J-Street]

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf
Edge folks: I'd suggest contacting counsel and an engineer before doing this again.

I agree 100% there morgan, but you got your names backwards, the EDGE is the ETSU official radio station, that's on the good ol' tv set there. The DETOUR is the online/106.7 fm station the conversation was about. Just to clarify.

I think part 15 transmitters @ 1 watt will only work for 200 ft at most.You're gonna have to put up a lot of em' to cover JC. Best thing to do is apply for a low-power license. You'll have to give the FCC a good reason why. I know you've heard all that. Check out the website from Mississippi State. They had the same idea you have and when I was there on a student broadcasters conference(96"), they wanted to give the community a different voice and sound from the commercial guys. Hope that helps. A word of caution:
don't tick off the ETSU powers-that-be or the FCC at the same time. They'll rip you a new one....I myself along with J-Street have been there.
Sensible words from the dawghouse......

 

[Johnny Morgan]

Yes, my mistake and confusion. The DETOUR is the 106.7 station, not the Edge.

Detour is the one that should consult counsel and engineers if they want to do a Part 15 or LPFM correctly and legally.

 

[Radio-X]

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf

That should pretty much solve this discussion.

Also, merely operating with a Part 15-compliant transmitter is meaningless if the transmitter is causing any interference with a licensed operation. As I've read, this Edge station broadcasts on 106.7 MHz. There is a licensed facility at 106.9 MHz (WMIT) which had Johnson City within its local contour.

ANY interference to this station by a purportedly Part 15 station is illegal. Read the PART 15 Regulations. It's very clear.

Edge folks: I'd suggest contacting counsel and an engineer before doing this again.

OK...now that I have some better info, I now come to the Detour's defense. WMIT, as far as I remember, is on the other side of the mountain range from Johnson City...giving it sub-par coverage (probably like what WIMZ sounds like in Johnson City). Nonetheless, that would never fly by FCC rules. 106.7 should probably move to a new freq.

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/vacant?select=city&city=Johnson+City&state=TN

Might help you out a bit. But nothing substitutes for actually listening to a good stereo and seeing what's empty.

Radio-X

 

[CoryK]

We go through a service that provides small broadcasters the oppurtunity to be licensed for CHEAP

Question - how do you get a sub-license for ASCAP/BMI/etc.?

I saw your post that said

Stream Cost= $10.00 (Radiobash.net)
License= $30.00 (Loudcity)
Operating Expenses= $49.99 (ISP)

As long as you abide by the DMCA and the by laws set by BMI/ASCAP you have nothing really to worry about due to the fact that you are paying for your fees.

Loudcity is fine for streaming, but I'm still not clear on the licensing for the broadcast, over-the-air part.

 

[csneed5]

Boy, this sure sounds familiar.. when I was at UT back in the 70's, we had SEVERAL low-power FM's floating around the dorms and some off-campus locations.
One of them at 90.7 just absolutely refused to give up. Eventually, he got a non-commercial license, but it wasn't his choice.

Interference to an adjacent station (as all the other chatters have brought up) is not the issue.. it never has been.

It's all about paying the broadcast license fee to the FCC..

Ask yourself.. what am I paying the FCC to broadcast at 106.7?
If the answer is "nothing," THAT'S what's gonna get you in trouble.

You could probably prove that you're not causing that much interference to anybody, but again that's not the point.

The government is all the money that legitimate stations pay to broadcast on both radio and TV frequencies.

The choice is clear.. either sign-off, pay the FCC its broadcast license fee, or start wheeling your FM transmitter around Johnson City.

BTW..one of my Knoxville buds got busted running his underground station (when the FCC gets a legitimate complaint, they send a white, unmarked truck to the community in question, with about ten antenna receivers sticking out of it.. then with waveform monitors and signal strength meters tuned into the frequence, they simply narrow the signal down, until they have the location within 250 feet of their parked location).. our friends in Washington fined him $50,000, and when he couldn't pay it, they knocked it down to $10,000, which the FCC Administrative Law judge demanded in cash.. my bud got a loan and spent the next eight years paying it off.

These days, it's fun watching 20-somthing renegade radio ridge-runners try to get around the FCC. They put a transmitter on a dolly, hang the antenna outside a window, and make a name for themselves by yelling "we're the alternative!" all the while, moving the transmitter around campus and around town frequently to escape prying government ears.

Good Luck, my friend..

 

[Bring_Back_Real_Radio]

Boy, this sure sounds familiar.. when I was at UT back in the 70's, we had SEVERAL low-power FM's floating around the dorms and some off-campus locations.
One of them at 90.7 just absolutely refused to give up. Eventually, he got a non-commercial license, but it wasn't his choice.

Interference to an adjacent station (as all the other chatters have brought up) is not the issue.. it never has been.

It's all about paying the broadcast license fee to the FCC..

Ask yourself.. what am I paying the FCC to broadcast at 106.7?
If the answer is "nothing," THAT'S what's gonna get you in trouble.

You could probably prove that you're not causing that much interference to anybody, but again that's not the point.

The government is all the money that legitimate stations pay to broadcast on both radio and TV frequencies.

The choice is clear.. either sign-off, pay the FCC its broadcast license fee, or start wheeling your FM transmitter around Johnson City.

BTW..one of my Knoxville buds got busted running his underground station (when the FCC gets a legitimate complaint, they send a white, unmarked truck to the community in question, with about ten antenna receivers sticking out of it.. then with waveform monitors and signal strength meters tuned into the frequence, they simply narrow the signal down, until they have the location within 250 feet of their parked location).. our friends in Washington fined him $50,000, and when he couldn't pay it, they knocked it down to $10,000, which the FCC Administrative Law judge demanded in cash.. my bud got a loan and spent the next eight years paying it off.

These days, it's fun watching 20-somthing renegade radio ridge-runners try to get around the FCC. They put a transmitter on a dolly, hang the antenna outside a window, and make a name for themselves by yelling "we're the alternative!" all the while, moving the transmitter around campus and around town frequently to escape prying government ears.

Good Luck, my friend..

I think those who look down on pirate radio are just jealous because some pirate operators offer a better variety of music and programming unlike the crap commercial stations. That's the real reason why there are some (who don't have a dog in the fight) feel the need to stick their noses in someone else's business who has a pirate station. People who feel the need to report these guys don't seem to have anything else better to do with their time it would seem.

You know, this country has bigger issues to worry about such as "National Security" and things that really matter, and I think it is pathetic that so many people are so worried about a few low wattage pirate broadcasts. Get a freaking life people!!!!

I agree that the airwaves need to be regulated, however I don't think anyone should have to pay the government (FCC) a fee just to broadcast. The airwaves belong to "THE PEOPLE" not the government.

The FCC should allow more independent LPFM's and stop making it nearly impossible for the smaller guy to own his own "Legal Station", but no thanks to the ruling that was passed years ago that has now allowed these greedy corporate giants to buy up several stations in each market, that has made it nearly impossible for the smaller guy to own his own legal station. It is the smaller guy who makes a difference when it comes to programming. These guys who run these legalized commercial stations don't have a clue about good music and programming.

I'm at least glad to see that "Commercial Radio" is losing listeners to Satellite and Online radio. Of course, I realize that they are doing everything they can to try and ruin Satellite and Online radio. No thanks to "Corporate Greed".

The way things are going, the next thing you know, they will try to make it illegal to listen to music on your computer, and then they will try to confiscate everyone's CD's and music out of their homes so they won't have anything to listen to but "commercial suck stations".

 

[Bring_Back_Real_Radio]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but make sure they understand that < 1 watt is not legal. < 25 milliwatts is not legal.

I would turn you in myself, but it's no longer my fight or my cause. Why? Because some of us have jobs at REAL radio stations.

Ok...........Are we supposed to be "Impressed with your statement" about how "Some of you have jobs at REAL radio stations"?

Uh, just to let you know, there is no such thing as "REAL RADIO" anymore.

Today's definition of "REAL RADIO"

REAL RADIO TODAY - Stations that are owned by Corporate Media Giants that play the same old 400 songs over and over again with no variety. These stations lack real air talent also. The people who run and manage them don't have a clue about real programming, and they are like a bunch of brain dead zombies.

Sorry to burst your bubble pal, however I am not impressed with the fact that you work at a so called, "REAL RADIO STATION".

I doubt if you even have a clue what "REAL RADIO" is or was at one time.

Sounds like to me that you need a "REAL JOB".

 

[eyg2181]

who cares, if someone wants to run a pirate radio station, who gives a ****, just let the guy do it... unless ikts rap, then get it out

 

[spindoctor1]

What part of ILLEGAL don't you guys understand?
Why should pirates get away with it when there are independent owners busting
their butts to pay the fees and licenses!
Variety or not, they are called illegal for a reason. AND not all stations that ARE
legal are overcommercialized.
I comply and if you are a station worth your salt then the word "pirate" is inconsequential.
If they could make it as true broadcasters they would find a way to be legal.