Imposing Dance On The Masses

[lalumia]

It's hysterical, lately, to hear people trying to figure out how to impose current dance product on the masses;
believe me, if they wanted to hear it,they'd be letting CHR know,
KTU wouldn't have had to flee to classics,
dance stations wouldn't have started dropping like flies,
and sales of dance product would be showing up in greater numbers to compensate for it's non radio availability;
maybe you can get the ACLU to DEMAND that radio must fill a quota of the current "BOOM BOOM BOOM" tracks ,to ween the kids away from My Chemical Romance,Fergie, The Fray,and Gwen Stephani;

 

[Todd Edwards]

You know.. I love the narrow minded!

Its funny how a dance station can be successful when applied to a winning formula. You can not say that they don't do jack, because they do leave their mark. Given the proper PROGRAMMING formula and KNOWING what to be played and the area market that it is applied to.. Sure they do thrive very much so. You need to get out a little more because I seriously say this. IF done RIGHT in the right market, they can and will be successful. Just because you can't go to your local record store and buy the tracks being played either indicates A) The person running the music store doesnt have a broad range of eclectic tastes in a broad range of music and doesnt bother to educate themselves to even to adapt their business for whats going on! B) If you want something bad enough you will get the product via the means of what your reading this posting on.

Personally Top 40 Radio is killing the market... (AND CLUB SCENE I MIGHT ADD) Who wants to hear the same 40 blinkin tracks spun every single day in and day out. Why do you think Sirus and Xm satellite radio was started? I know why... its because TOP 40 IS KILLING RADIO WHICH GIVES THE PRESUMPTION THAT YOU AND I BEHIND THE MICROPHONE ARE JUST PLYLONS BEHIND A MICROPHONE!!! How many PAID subscribers are on satellite radio and who back 10-20 years ago even if the technology was available would even CONSIDER of buying it. THEY WOULDNT HAVE! Radio was great now its like a dried up prune because Big corps THINK this is what we NEED to hear. Expand educate and diversify I say, and you will stand out in the croud and you wont fall influenced to a listener lost to satellite radio or another IPOD Download. Realise the facts because lost listeners to these mediums are a threat... so why not be different to give the listener something that they wont hear everyday! At least with a dance form the message is a positive one instead of how that rapper is gonna go out and "bang his rival possie and riddin dirty" Does anyone think about this crap when they put it into rotation? What would you think about your daughter being influenced by suggestive promiscuous messages and shes taking "Ridin Dirty" to heart and wants to fufill the messages portrayed used in an artistic impression. Sure sex sells, but by all means the message of the tunes today are either no meaning what so ever or its all about getting laid and being focused and targetting and TEACHING your 9 year old the Phrase "bangin on the bathroom floor" is a cool thing. NOT!

 

[lalumia]

Top 40 Radio has ALWAYS played the same songs(they're called HITS) over and over, and in the 70s, 80s and 90s, that included dANCE tracks in that heavy rotation;
as I recall, the club scene(including Studio 54) was hardly damaged by Top 40 rotation, quite the contrary..
the reality is that current dance product SUCKS, and as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water,but you can't make him drink...
by the way,KTU's numbers are up since dumping the sound alike diva fest...so there ya go..

 

[TonySantiago]

You know.. I love the narrow minded!
You need to get out a little more because I seriously say this. IF done RIGHT in the right market, they can and will be successful.

Dead on Todd! I've been saying this over and over again, thus the message we are trying to convey for the coalition.

Jimi's quote....

the reality is that current dance product SUCKS, and as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water,but you can't make him drink...
by the way,KTU's numbers are up since dumping the sound alike diva fest...so there ya go..

First off, the ONLY reason why 'KTU numbers are up (which btw wasn't a big climb, and also note..Arbitrends) was due to Mix 102.7 dropping their format for "Fresh" (and yeah they had the big increase only because the Mix format was getting tired and could never beat 'KTU). Sucks? Jimi...you live in Party 105.3 land. They had PLAYED your music! So are you saying the only good music out there is yours?

And for that matter, if you really don't believe in the dance music product, maybe you should quit the coalition. We are about making changes and we certainly are open to all opinions. But if all you are going to do is bash and diss dance and in effect find us "hysterical" for trying to make change, then perhaps the coalition is not for you. I won't delete you off....you do that if we "amuse you".

 

[lalumia]

sorry, Tony, I have the greatest respect for your passion ,and I adore great dance music; I wish there was more of it;
I don't think that the genre of dance and it's legacy is helped or heightened by pledging allegience to just anything that gets thrown out there,any more than saying that you love America means that you are obliged to say good things about George Bush;
in that regard, I consider myself a patriot for dance past, and the hopes for dance future; but in my opinion(and it is after all just an opinion), the 'dance' that's out there at the moment, and in the [ast year or two, is dreadfully lacking;
as to my recorded output,I attempted to add a bit of variety to the diva dominated 'scene',and I stand by whatever I've done;
I also stand by everything I've said;
having said that, I do support your efforts and believe that if anyone can turn things around, it will be you, and I will continue to observe on going events as they happen..
xoxox
jimi

 

[Dancerev889]

what the hell are you talking about? There have been a ton of great dance records over the last two years. Cascada, Lucas Prata, Freemasons, Dirty South, Booty Luv, Bob Sinclar and so forth the list goes on. I think the last two years have been some of the best product in years. Why are dance tracks all over the commercials we see and hear on tv and radio? Is it ironic that Hip hops BPM's are speeding up? Dance just needs to be promoted and not just to radio but on a grass roots basis. We need to support the stations we have right now

 

[TonySantiago]

And that's cool that you have an opinion. What got to me was the "hysterical" part....that struck me.

And yes, there is some dance product out there that stinks. There's good and bad in all musical forms. We can throw many arguments onto the table about what is good, bad, what can be done to improve on things, etc....but the real goal for now is to get to the masses (and yes, grass roots) to start giving a damn about dance music somehow. I can scream to the top of my lungs but if apathy exists amongst the dance music community (in New York), then the naysayers would be proven right in that there is little audience and too niche for a station to tackle dance contemporary.

I want to prove them wrong and will do whatever it takes

Glad you're sticking by!

 

[lalumia]

the hysterical part was not aimed at you, Tony;
some of the postings I've seen on different boards are just rave fests with no plan, no rhyme or reason,just people saying , basically,'things have to be THIS way because that's the way I want it and I say so" type rants, which accomplish nothing and makes the supporters sound like zealots without a plan or a grip on reality...
and the reality is that when dance tunes strike a chord with the masses(as Cascada did, for example) Top 40 radio trips all over themselves to get such tracks on the air;
writing, producing,and song 'concepts' need to keep the mainstream in mind,and that hasn't been the case for 90 % of the tracks released over the past few years(again, in my opinion)

 

[Todd Edwards]

Its funny to say the least to think that "radio" has no effect on the youth of today. Yes radio way back played the dance hits, but where are they now? (Big corporations took them out of rotation that’s where they are!) Sure you may disagree with the dance of today but everything evolves and revolves around "Change" One thing is that I can say.. I’m very open to all concepts and all types of music but when big Corporations ram music down your throat in what’s "thought to be cool" and to BE cool for radio rotation. You take 1 club out of 5 quad zillion and say that it has no effect on what is being educated to the masses? BS! The club you attend must be simply put an over 25 club, since today’s Youth are mostly lost in today’s hog washing of a market. Even club locations have certain demographics and if you were playing the "hits list" that's shoved down peoples throats, then you will come to realize that the radio is the only thing they can familiarize themselves with songs being aired on CHR formats. At least give them some other sounds to expand their horizons, as well as market research then. All I’m saying is give some "VARIETY" to what’s out there, then the audience wouldn’t have to source out to satellite radio or Ipods. That’s where everyone looses and satellite radio gains on the whole over killed over played "40 hits" played in a day. Who makes them hits? Sound scan? Just because domestic labels KILL the imports because record companies do not have the accessibility to the music is crazy! Education should be a word of the future so that listeners don't have to sit through another boring dull 60 minutes of the same garbage that they heard all day long. Case in point, listen to an interactive show, what do they request? <---- Point noted and point received. They request what they been "Taught" to listen to. You think if radio actually played a variety they would request the same things played day-to-day? I think not! I’m not picking sides on the whole dance vs. top 40, but I have seen the club scene in Toronto and am still very active in the scene, and just like radio the whole scene has did a 360 where kids think they know everything and your just some monkey behind a pair of 12,000s. NO RESPECT is the keyword but who says no-respect is the way to act and is cool in today’s society. Where do they learn this disrespect?? Take a listen to some of the lyrics to what radio make hits. Go anywhere else in the WORLD and the scene is nowhere anything close to what’s out there today. As far as people poking comments back n forth to who likes what because of their listening prefs, take a look around and realize that opening peoples eyes to other things Out there isn’t such a bad Idea. Radio is soooooooo not what it was 5 -10 - even 20 or 30 years ago... why is that? LOOK WHAT they are promoting and programming! Radio is the medium to MAKE the sounds mainstream and what’s to be drawn to what IS mainstream. Once again, Cascada... way to over played and to think that she has more hits then "Every time we touch" is so sad to know they are 20 times better then the one that’s over killed. Why is it better you ask? Because its not overplayed to death! As I say, keep the radio listeners radio listeners, give the people what they want and they will remain loyal to radio and not stray off to other mediums.

 

[lalumia]

ummmmmmm...........ok?!?!....whatever.......

 

[JustinCase]

I'm a huge dance fan... the new the old, all of it... I went to KTU's Party Gras at the Copa the other night to celebrate a milestone birthday with my friends. The audience was younger than I mostly... but far more receptive and into the older "80's & 90's classics" and "freestyle" than the newer dance music, which only got heavy participation when they slowed it down and sang with the crowd... Cascada was practically begging people to dance to her music... constantly asking people to dance to/with her... She has some good songs, that are catchy and have broke through to the main streem, but the dance break throughs have been few and far between when looking at popular culture as a whole lately. Current dance music as many of us would like to see it, is on the outside looking in at the popularity party.

 

[lalumia]

BINGO!!

 

[Dancerev889]

Justin I was there too. That was a much older crowd. Most of the people were in their 40's. I was looking for the IROC's parked outside. It was like a flash back to the early 90's. Today's dance music is fine its for a younger audience not a 25-54 demographic

 

[CHRles]

I agree with DanceRev ;D

 

[TonySantiago]

Let's add on further to this....

'KTU has been playing the classic dance stuff like this ever since the format tweak so "Party Gras" was meant to serve that audience. Of course they know the 80's & 90's freestyle and club stuff because that is what they are used to hearing on that station. Cascada really isn't about them, even though she is the most mainstream of today's dance music.

Referring back to the classics.....at one time, those classics WERE brand new. Stations such as Hot103/97 (New York) and Q-102 (Philadelphia) were playing them as current when the music was current. The same goes with disco from the original 'KTU in New York. If it wasn't for those stations at the time, if you attempted to play those classic freestyle/club songs now, everyone would be lost.

Point is, a new heritage has to start up for dance music and that does include artists such as Cascada, Jenna Drey, Flanders, Cicada plus three that I've had the pleasure to see LIVE at my coalition meeting (Drea, Andrea Carnell & Giorgio). Stations such as Party 105.3, Super 91.7, Energy 92.7, Z889 & C-89.5 have the right idea. And be sure in those areas served by those stations people are up and aware about the new sounds.

It may take a book or two, but guaranteed you can get a new generation of dance fans (and some older ones such as us!) if a corporate media entity started thinking outside the box and expose it. They may have no choice but to since satellite is achieving growth based on listener disgust on terrestrial radio. 20 years from now, what is new today will be the classics.

It's like the cable/over-the-air TV argument. The big 3 (ABC, CBS, NBC) laughed at cable figuring they were no threat. But once cable started added edgier, ground breaking programming, along with FOX coming in, bucking against conventional networks and adding a different style of programming, the big 3 took a hit and eventually came up with original style of programming, such as "NYPD Blue".

 

[Todd Edwards]

ummmmmmm...........ok?!?!....whatever.......

Obviously the point is made strong and very clearly with no response.

Factual point.... why do venues In Europe have 40,000 people at ONE venue to see a venue of DJs... WHY for the love of music, did the pioneer radio station CING FM In Toronto sell out an Island of 30,000 people back in the mid 90s? Why in the crying shame did CING FM in Toronto go down shortly after switching to a top 40 format and ended up switching to a country format? The bottom line is, there is a market out there and the bottom line and key to making it work is simply put in one word... MARKET REASEARCH! Big Corporations shouldnt be able to monopolize the markets and dictate whats to be played. Thats all Im saying......

Dont believe me on the venues in Europe.. take a look for yourself!!

http://sensation.id-t.com/sensation2006/white/event-white/ look at the pictures.. they say Top 40 is everything Pfff! All Im saying is Variety... VARIETY!!! 25-54 is the demographics a radio station wants.. they are the ones that are experiencing their "Firsts" (First car, first house ect..ect....) Why would advertiseres want to advertise sell their ads to 12 - 19 and 30-45? They are missing the core audience in my thoughts.....

 

[lalumia]

there's no debate that dance is popular in Europe: I'm not talking about Europe, I'm talking about America, which is a whole nother thing...
for that matter, the biggest selling, most popular star in the UK and Europe is..Robbie Williams(who has had tons of exposure and opportunities in America,and is still basically unsuccessful here, in spite of Capitol/EMI spending big bucks to try and break him here)
..there's a different cultural sensibility in America than in Europe, and all you have to do to find that out is look at the US charts for downloads(legal and illegal)and ringtones and you'll get the picture..
to make it in America, dance has to find the 'spot'(sound) that motivates the potential U.S. fan, and the current Euro fare ain't it... the facts speak for themselves.....

 

[JustinCase]

There is a reason Dance stations have dropped like flies across the country, the product and the audience aren't up to snuff... KTU is a dance station, it might not lean towards the genre's of dance you want, but it is a dance station and as dance evolves so will KTU!

As far as the crowd at Party Gras, it was varied, where I was on the floor, besides 4 overly drunk OLDER Italian men near us (who were throwing themselves on every female within 15 feet), I don't think anyone around me was over 25 because I was feeling old at 30... it was all young hispanic and italian kids... there was no love for an ethnic mutt manhattanite from Canada celebrating his 30th birthday... granted up near the bar and stuff it was midlife crisis zone, all the older dance fans hovering around their $10 drinks. I had fun, a worthwhile 5 hours of dance...

 

[Todd Edwards]

Sure there is cultural differences, but when a lil radio station in Toronto wanted to hold a dance music festival they needed an Island for 35,000 people... Toronto isnt THAT far from America.... So it can be done here.. Top 40 radio is a wash.. It needs more variety.. thats all Im saying.

 

[TheThing]

;D

The main problem is the PD's most dont live the dance/house life style, it is a huge risk to invest time in dance music for the big corp head's. Its speaks volumes when the main 4 US labels are pushing one hit wonders and easy bankable US artists. PD's across the US and Canada like SAFE Artists that are well know, and the 4 main labels are banking on that choice, Programming Dance or house music is a lifestlye on its own. These PD's wouldnt dare take a change on dance song unless a payola is happening like it still is in the CHR top40 trends. The 4 majors scoope out the CHR40 one offs and PD's simply pick there patteren for the up comming weeks programing, This in turn controls the whole market and it is hard to get inside this Dictated box. there really is no Programmer Director in radio any more, its not if a track/sounds goods, it is a case of login on a computer and checking stats and spins. Top 40 charts is basicly based on spins and what labels are pushing out there. it really isnt people who make the top charted songs in the country or buy what they download, it is the corp's heads decieding it for them. This is the whole reason why the system for comerial radio is failing as a whole. Sat radio and indepent radio web services are taking off because Corp heads cant stop the Ipod and mainstream of freedom of choice the market has come too. go back a few years and there wasnt so many ways of listerning to different music is was laid out off you and your choices were limmited. I wish some programmer would actually sit down and listen to all the music out there in the world and spent the proper time to pick his style of what he likes and put it on a commerical radio station. If that was the case then that would be the number #1 person driven station and people would know it and believe in comerical radio again...