I think that reference was to sports play-by-play, in markets that haven't seen it move to FM, that is.
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Imus Unloads on the Dickey Brothers
- Thread starter Rusty Bridges
- Start date
I think that reference was to sports play-by-play, in markets that haven't seen it move to FM, that is.
It seems that everyone has missed one valid point.
During the hours that WABC is airing pre-recorded infomercials, they not only make money from the sponsor of the program material .... they can also automate the playback of the programs.
They save money by not having to pay a board operator and (during talk shows) a call screener.
The infomercials may not attract the normal talk radio listeners but they do bring in money.
During the hours that WABC is airing pre-recorded infomercials, they not only make money from the sponsor of the program material .... they can also automate the playback of the programs.
They save money by not having to pay a board operator and (during talk shows) a call screener.
The infomercials may not attract the normal talk radio listeners but they do bring in money.
This listener hasn't missed it at all. I just continue to be amazed by the whole infomercial business. Who ARE these people who listen to them? They must be so different from us "normal talk radio listeners" -- or normal radio listeners, period -- as to be hardly recognizable as human.
It's hard to believe the direct response from the audience (buying a product, sending for literature, etc.) is worth the money the sponsors have to pay a station like WABC to put the infomercial on the air. But as you say, they are pure revenue for the stations, with the possibility of significant savings on payroll. Sad that the business of radio is now so crass that the people running it don't care if anyone listens so long as the coffers get filled, but that's the way of the AM world, I guess.
Do you like to get paid for what you do? So do I. The business of radio has ALWAYS been about filling the coffers, going back to Marconi and Sarnoff. If you don't think so, then you're naïve.
I could tell you horror stories about the health care business, and how "crass" they've become in their pursuit of profits, but it would be off topic.
True, but at least the stations in the early days and "golden age" of radio, when they turned over an hour to a local business, would at least partially fill that hour with music or talk that had nothing to do with the business or its product; in other words, entertainment. That's why people tuned in and made it possible for the stations to charge businesses more for sponsored hours or, later, spots. Relentless selling of patent medicines, financial advice, real estate schemes, etc., serves only one purpose: to fill the coffers, whether anyone is listening or not. I don't recall radio EVER being about airing programming that hardly anyone would want to listen to.
Again, I understand why it's done, and if I were in the AM radio business I'd probably be doing the same thing, given the bleak outlook for AM and the cost of on-air talent and production people. But it's crass, just as crass as what the health care business (off topic, but I'll risk it) has become.
I gather that you ARE in the business, and either own, manage or have something else to do with an AM station or stations. First, my deepest sympathies. I hope somehow AM manages a comeback (although doing so via FM translators wouldn't really be AM making a comeback, either in the assigned band or in modulation technique). Second, don't take it personally. I'm just expressing my preference for the type of radio I like to listen to -- and, judging by WABC's microscopic ratings, the type of radio most people like to listen to.
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The very first commercial that aired on WEAF in NYC back in 1922 was basically a half hour infomercial about the advantages of renting in a particular apartment building. No entertainment value whatsoever. Infomercials such as these have been airing on radio and TV stations ever since. To be honest, the sponsors TRY to make them "entertaining." Larry King has been hosting a lot of TV infomercials lately. People aren't tuning in to hear these current infomercials. They're most likely "accidental" listeners who get caught up in the subject matter. My aging uncle is one of them. So people listen, and they respond, just as they respond to the 1-800 spots that air during the week.
As I said earlier in this thread, the problem at this station goes back many years, and has nothing to do with infomercials. The real problem is that next to nobody is listening during the week. Every talk station in NYC airs these infomercials, not just WABC. Even WBAI is running infomercials. It's what's keeping that station alive too. Personally I don't understand the issue. Treat them the way you treat anything else....switch the station. They'll go away some day, and will probably get replaced by foreign language programming. If you're waiting for the All American DJs to return from 1965, you'll be waiting a long time. It's been my experience that the past never comes back.
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Neither of WNYC's signals run paid programming of any sort.
WABC's audience are so used to eating up lies and slander and little more bullshit won't hurt them.
The bigger reality is that both 770 and 710 serve as market#1 clearances. That is why they exist. Whatever cash flow they can eke out just serves to pay the operating costs and justify their keep to the shareholders.
It is kind of ironic that in a region such as NYC metro that is becoming gop-free these right wing gas bags may hold-on longer than they will in many other markets -even with no one listening.
Don Imus's declining health and abilities perfectly reflect what is left of his listeners.
LCG
Of course they don't as they are both licensed as non-commercial stations.
That means they are supported by listener donations, grants and tax dollars.
It's sad that someone in the industry can feel that way and not even understand that there's an issue.
I agree we've probably reached the point of no return for terrestrial broadcasting. The inflection point where action could have been taken was about a decade or more ago when management started plugging infomercials into slots other than after midnight Sunday night/Monday morning. I recall Phil Boyce on a message board (and also on one of his "Ask the PD" segments on the air) referring to these things as, "programs." The dentist once said that infomercials were a lot more appropriate on talk stations because, well, at least someone is talking. More recently he started a thread in praise of a weekly mortgage infomercial. Boyce was probably acting partly out of job preservation and partly in denial, the latter simply doesn't understand talk radio, IMO.
So the question is, at the inflection point where the thinking shifted from, "we cannot interrupt our 24/7 programming with infomercials" (with the Sun. midnight exception) to, "oh well, a few on the weekends won't hurt," -- at that point, was the decision made out of greed or of necessity? Today I don't doubt it's out of necessity, but was it then?
Before television, radio flourished as the only immediate source of news and information as well as live entertainment. Post-TV, it shifted away from "block programming" toward consistent 24/7 formats and trained listeners to expect no less. The internet now provides a 24/7 experience -- if you logged into your favorite site on the weekend and found the expected content unavailable you'd eventually be driven elsewhere. Weekend programming at the very least is a continuous promo for the weekday programming and for the station as a whole. It provides a means of discovery, even if as some have suggested, it's repeat programming from during the week.
At that inflection point, management of stations like WABC apparently forgot about radio's history and they reintroduced block programming (of course I use the term "programming" loosely.) But the point is, predictably listeners went elsewhere. Would they have left anyway? Could management have have found ways to make the medium more appealing and retain listenership, and maybe lower the demo, without throwing in the towel? Perhaps they just said, "Personally I don't understand the issue."
Whether what's left of WABC and similar stations is worth saving is a moot point. The Golden Age -- and the Golden Years -- of broadcast radio are behind us.
What are you talking about? They don't run infomercials on WCBS or WLTW, do they? Of course not.
So this is not the "point of no return for terrestrial broadcasting." However, it may be the point of no return for AM radio. If there's an issue with anything, it's with AM radio. If the issue exists, it's largely because AM radio has a lot of technical limitations that were known in the 1930s. It took a long time for those limitations to catch up, but that's where we are. There is a need for governmental action. Private ownership has done all it can do with spectrum space that belongs to the government. But the government is unwilling or unable to do anything but talk about it. So we're stuck.
No one forgot about radio's history, except maybe the audience. The audience recognized that FM sounds better than AM, and they deserted AM. This didn't happen recently. It happened in the 1970s. That's when the problem began. Broadcasters thought they could solve the problem with programming. It was really the only option available. So they put talk programming on AM stations. But even talk became unlistenable as noise levels grew. That's where we are now.
As I said, the problem with WABC is NOT the weekends. The problem with WABC is the weekdays. They can put get rid of infomercials on the weekends, but it won't solve the weekday problem. Since no one's listening during the week, ad rates are very low. Take away those infomercials, and there's no money at all to pay for the weekdays. You can't solve a money problem with history. What would you do?
No they don't ... and look at their numbers compared to WABC. Coincidence? I think not. ;-)
Um, WCBS-880 is an AM station last time I checked.
This is simply a chicken-and-egg question. Did infomercials hasten the demise of WABC or did crappy (and stagnant) programming force the weekend infomercials?
Both, I'd say.
I was talking about WCBS-FM.
You're attempting to say all of terrestrial radio has a problem. I am saying all AM talk stations are the only ones running infomercials. Coincidence? I think not.
By the way, this is not a NYC-only situation. AM talk stations in practically every market are running weekend infomercials. Why do you think that is?
Are they a talk station? Same with WFAN 660. Are they a talk station?
The all news station in Phoenix runs infomercials on weekends and they still get great ratings during the week.
If someone took issue with the way you made your living, what would you say to them?
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Oh please, there is a big difference from "someone" making a living and a public airwaves radio conglomerate.
No doubt you or someone close to you has some involvement with the decision making process at WABC that you defend weekend infomercials to such an extent.
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All the industry wants in the form of 'Governmental Action' is to not have to own AMs to own FMs and that requirement should not be lifted. Some AMs do well, and there may be an impetus to improve the AM band with FM getting ever more crowded. Imus was right in what he said, but it didn't take much in the way of guts to say it once they were fired. It takes a certain acumen to properly manage a big market station. A manager needs to understand the sales and programming process. Cookie cutter won't cut it (pun). The Dickeys tried to adapt an approach they had some success with in medium to small markets and it failed. Cumulus will be financially restructured and the debt holders will take a hit. I doubt there are any real buyers for the assets at anything approaching a fair value and 'fair value' in this sense is FAR less than Cumulus paid.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
I suppose you think he's responsible for the hundreds of other AMs nationwide which run infomercials, too.
Nobody is defending any station or individual. We are all trying to tell you that many AM stations are facing declining revenues and audience levels and have, for years, and all across the country, taken the additional revenue from infomercials as well as PI accounts as a way of keeping some revenue on the books.
This is, then, not just about WABC. It's about AM stations all over the nation. Some take ethnic programming. Some broker out time. Some take paid religion. And many sell infomercials.
Here's an analogy: where I live, in the California desert, we are in the middle of an enormous drought. There are many "turf farms" here that used to offer thousands and thousands of square feet of grass. But the governments here have told everyone to quit watering lawns and to seek desert-friendly planting or artificial turf. They pay us to make the changes. So now the turf farms offer agave plants and palo verde saplings and such. The "audience" for turf moved on. The turf growers still provide some of it for approved locations, but they have had to find some other way to make money as the market for grass (in this case, AM radio) is in rapid decline.
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