In 2011, HD's slow death continues

[tomservo]

More computers than radios? God, even I'm not that big of a nerd.

Again, I put this forth: streaming radio is going to big another big waste of time like HD has been. It's going to be strangled by bandwidth caps by wireless providers and performance fees. The stream needs a workable mobile solution that will work where cell phone signals won't, and HD can help fit that bill, at least on FM. But it has to be done right, and even then it won't work well in every market. Still, it's better than nothing.

You guys have to remove yourselves from the radio world for a minute and realize that streaming mobile radio is gonna take a back seat to streaming video, which are super data intensive.

 

[TheBigA]

More computers than radios? God, even I'm not that big of a nerd.

I prefer my iPhone to the clock radio. That's how bad it is.

It's going to be strangled by bandwidth caps by wireless providers and performance fees.

Yeah, I agree with that, at least for now. But sooner or later the revolution will be successful. I also agree with the streaming video thing, and that's why I'm so excited about the multi-platform possibilities. It's all just so much more dynamic than radio-only.

 

[tomservo]

I really need a smartphone. Something tells of I'd do a 180 on HD if I got my hands on one. The 5 year old Walkman phone I'm using to write with now is really showing its age.

After I posted that about video being bigger, I read today's Taylor on Radio Info, which had a story about how streaming radio will actually be bigger than video because of the caps, and also because it can engage listeners while they do other chores, which video can't do since it requires eyeballs. So maybe I'm off the mark? I dunno.

 

[BRNout]

It's going to be strangled by bandwidth caps by wireless providers and performance fees.

Yeah, I agree with that, at least for now. But sooner or later the revolution will be successful. I also agree with the streaming video thing, and that's why I'm so excited about the multi-platform possibilities. It's all just so much more dynamic than radio-only.

That issue is often cited by detractors of the 'streaming' concept, but it's also a straw man. Fact is, the bandwidth issue tends to be concentrated around certain highly-populated areas with a high percentage of users. New investments in infrastructure (4G tech., new transmitters, etc.) are quickly acting to mitigate this issue. This is what is known as a 'growing pain' and it will subside in the not very distant future as the infrastructure catches up with demand. For example, steaming via a 4G system is truly effortless.

A good analogy is cable TV and the switch from old fashioned coax to fiber optic cable. 3G wireless devices are the old 79 channel analog systems; 4G systems are like digital cable with 999 channels, on demand and a DVR. If anything, this issue of bandwidth demonstrates just what a resounding success the concept of audio and video streaming is.

As for HD radios: well, there are no shortages, production snafus or waiting lists. No buzz at all - except on adjacent channels where it doesn't belong! :

It's NBC for HD radio: No Body Cares.

 

[ajc_trw]

It's NBC for HD radio: No Body Cares.

For HD radio It's local station WGAF

 

[radiogooroo]

I've seen convincing evidence that both broadcasters and listeners reject HD even when it's free. Think about it: if iBiquity offered to send you its junky encoders, importers, exporters and hoo-had for NOTHING, you would still have to install it, maintain it, dork around with the matching audio delay on a daily basis, and field interference/reduced coverage complaints.

That's weird. Install it and maintain it I get. The rest, not so much.

Matching audio delay on a daily basis? No. As a matter of fact, I haven't had to adjust the delay once since upgrading my stations to the V4 architecture. It's a consistent 7 seconds.

Interference complaints? I'm still waiting for the first one.

 

[radiogooroo]

Oh, and for the black or white crowd, it's not HD or streaming. In my world, it's HD AND streaming.

As it turns out, a lot of us are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Who woulda thunk it?

 

[tomservo]

If 4G is the solution to the bandwidth problem, someone should tell the service providers. They're charging as much or more for 4G access and some are still capping usage. The rest will follow suit soon as their networks are sufficiently over-sold.

When the network is hammered, HD will work. Even if the end user sticks with it just long enough until their connection comes back. One thing I've learned is cell networks are a lot more fragile than people think. I lost all access to my network for an hour last night. At midnight! Whatever they were doing, they took their sweet time. But the internet on my mother's new phone is off more than it's on, even in off peak times. Ask your station's sales weasels how they'd feel about the station going off the air for 30 minutes during evening rush hour. I'm sure they'd understand.

 

[Don Juannn]

Actually, it'd be nice if there were some discussion here regarding interesting uses of HD and its multicast channels, but that might be seen by some hereabouts as "supporting" it.

I think it's a foregone conclusion for many of us here that HD is just biding it's time.

Yes,...that's right...that conclusion is forgone...here.

As long as you keep in your little nerdy internet groups, you get the impression everyone is on your side.

Time for a little reality.

2.) Are concumers interested in ANY radio?

You are right, I have never heard of fruit listening to the radio.

Now there's a response that made me laugh!

 

[Don Juannn]

ALL radio is undergoing apathy....there are not many new things about radio AT ALL that have succeeded. I cant think of the last time an AM success story hit the dial (with the exception of the sports formats that have appeared.)

Talk to Joe and Nancy Reilly, owners of WHLM in Bloomsburg, PA:

http://www.whlmam.com/

They brought a dark daytimer back to life, made a ongoing commitment to local service, added two FM translators for solid 24 hour coverage, (for a fraction of the cost of an iBiquity broadcaster license), put up a web stream, and they've turned the thing around.

Before you denigrate the Reillys as "small-time operators", consider that WHLM provides a unique community service unlike Sirius, XM, cable TV, or the TV and radio stations in larger adjoining markets. As always, programming (and a good signal to carry it) are keys to local radio's continued success.

I would never denigrate their efforts.

To them, I would say congratulations! I would love to see more dark stations brought back to life serving their local communities!

However, I would add that the WHLM case is not a trend...rather the exception. It would also appear they have an FM to help support their AM efforts?

http://radio-locator.com/info/WHLM-FM

 

[nd2023]

4G has more bandwidth available to it and can transmit data more efficiently than 3G. It could even serve as a complete replacement to a home broadband connection.

 

[Savage]

So what's wrong with having "an FM translator to help their AM efforts?" In most markets FM listening comprises 80% + of listenership, so in order to attract a meaningful audience these days you need the FM vehicle. That's where the folks are.

And in any case: WHLM's FM is a translator. By definition that means: no AM, then no FM. There has to be a primary for the translator to duplicate......?

 

[Play Freebird]

To them, I would say congratulations! I would love to see more dark stations brought back to life serving their local communities!

However, I would add that the WHLM case is not a trend...rather the exception. It would also appear they have an FM to help support their AM efforts?

http://radio-locator.com/info/WHLM-FM

Joe would be in the best position to give you the real story about this -- but my impression as a listener is that the AM may be subsidizing the FM! Comparing the two stations, the AM (which is also simulcast on two FM translators) is much more active.

 

[Savage]

Gooroo - I respectfully note your experience with HD. If you're not having delay problems or interference complaints, those are good things.

My response would be: interference complaints are a case-by-case situation. Your frequency allocation and market apparently luck out - you've got enough elbow room there so your HD isn't causing any problems. But where the interference exists: it's bad, and it's real. Don't just take WYSL's word for it. Ask Local Oscillator about HIS first-adjacent HD problems. And there are many, many others. As far as "listener complaints" about interference: of course you haven't received any, nor would you - ever. That's the cynicism behind the FCC "policies" about addressing HD interference - no listener will ever complain because they lack the technical expertise to identify the source or type. They just tune out when the noise is too bad, assuming "radio sucks, it's all staticky." Bad for the industry? You bet, even when HD interferors
skate on stepping on neighbors.

As far as the delay goes - obviously you have a different technical infrastructure. As this discussion board bears witness, most installations apparently don't have this luxury. Delay matching is a pervasive problem with HD.

 

[BRNout]

Oh, and for the black or white crowd, it's not HD or streaming. In my world, it's HD AND streaming.

As it turns out, a lot of us are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Who woulda thunk it?

No, that's more like chewing gum as you eat filet mignon. Sure, you can do it - but who would?

 

[Don Juannn]

So what's wrong with having "an FM translator to help their AM efforts?

And in any case: WHLM's FM is a translator. By definition that means: no AM, then no FM. There has to be a primary for the translator to duplicate......?

Nothing is wrong with it...but is it a translator at 4KWs?

 

[Don Juannn]

Ask Local Oscillator about HIS first-adjacent HD problems.

OK Local Oscillator...what are your first-adjacent HD problems?

And there are many, many others.

Not really, most can be explained away....and when asked for hard and fast data, the complaint dissappears.


As far as "listener complaints" about interference: of course you haven't received any, nor would you - ever. That's the cynicism behind the FCC "policies" about addressing HD interference - no listener will ever complain because they lack the technical expertise to identify the source or type. They just tune out when the noise is too bad, assuming "radio sucks, it's all staticky."

Incorrect. Most major stations/companies/markets do ongoing market research...and one of the necessary questions in any strategic research is about reception. And indeed people have complaioned in recent years over AM reception, but when chasing down the cause, they find it is monitor or computer problems, cellphone issues, etc. I have yet to see a listener complain about anything that resembles an HD problem.

Also, there has been no noted decline in listening to stations who have added HD.

As far as the delay goes - obviously you have a different technical infrastructure. As this discussion board bears witness, most installations apparently don't have this luxury. Delay matching is a pervasive problem with HD.

This discussion board bears witness to bad engineering = bad engineering. If a station is badly run, with talent, and employees who don't have the technical expertise, then problems pop up everywhere.

I'm reminded of the beginnings of stereo...when engineers had to start thinking about keeping everything in phase...whereas they didn't have to previously.

Most stations have not had any problems with delays...IF their engineering staff understands it. If they don't...then what do you expect?

 

[tomservo]

You'd think a foolproof digital delay system would be part of HD radio off the shelf. But apparently it isn't. How stupid is that? I definitely agree bad engineering = bad product. For HD to even approach decency, the underlying technical details must be solid. All the Clear Channel stations in my state sound bad in analog and unsuprisingly sound even worse in HD.

 

[local oscillator]

The HD interference I receive is very real -- from a super-powered first-adjacent FM. And yes, it's inside my "protected" contour -- and certified by one of the top consulting firms. And the Commission couldn't care less; it has more important things to do like squeezing spectrum out of our TV brethren, fine-tuning the regulatory fees for next year, and bringing broadband to every mountaintop in Wyoming.

 

[Don Juannn]

The HD interference I receive is very real -- from a super-powered first-adjacent FM. And yes, it's inside my "protected" contour -- and certified by one of the top consulting firms.

Can we add some facts to this?

Which station is receiving interference from what other station.