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"In six months, we'll still play what we want"

Re: yes, again

C'mon Oldiescat, Jack will fail in the Top 5 markets because
MusicloverII has all the #1 ratings. Give it up, you've
met your match. :) You're a small town nothing. Relegated
to daytime AM oldies. Ha! What a joke. (all, or most???
meant in jest or disgust..no harm intended.)<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 09/18/05 03:38 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: anti-Jack

> Yes, because it's far too sophisticated of a format for "us
> people". Spoken like a true left wing save the whales and
> hump the trees idealogue. I guess the politician part is
> right.
>
> It's small town radio, play anything you can get your hands
> on. Small town radio is fine for small towns, small markets.
> Until you bring in a number one in NYC, Chicago SF or L.A.
> you're not really qualified to have much of an opinion about
> "us people" who have.
>
> It's not about "getting it", it's about slapping rah-rah
> teste pulling yankers like you out of the terminal dreamland
> you're in about A FORMAT (or, lack of it) The ratings will
> come down and the format will crash. Says I. In many markets
> it's not spectacular. The trampolene will bounce and the
> numbers will settle in the FEW markets that matter most to
> this "new style" of radio. LAUGHABLE.

Like I said, here we go again. Dude, you may not like the Jack format, but apparently many people do. Give it up! This "small town" radio format, is obviously doing ok in many areas. Will it stay that way? LIke I said, time will tell. You don't know if Jack will fail, crash, or not. You don't know and I don't know.

> > It's not an attack and has nothing to do with
> > "dictatorship". There are some who hate the Jack approach
>
> > because they don't get it, therefore they don't like it--
> > THEN they say it can't and won't work (which is total
> > denial, since the format is off to a solid and sometimes
> > spectacular start in a number of markets).
> >
> > Some act like politicians- if you disagree with them,
> you're
> > "attacking" them.
> > THAT is comical.
> >
> > >
> > > Whom would that be? Your attack is not very
> professional,
> > > and your dictatorship is not going to help you.
> > >
> > > > True. And, those who don't 'get it' or harp on the
> same
> >
> > > > little-to-nothing details they don't like about Jack
> are
> >
> > > > against it, as well. Small people with no lives,
> > > > apparently.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
Re: Jack

> Whatever. Blah, blah, blah. Somebody got on me about
> "attacking", then you pull out all the left-wing idealogy
> stuff, which has nothing to do with the discussion? Nice
> try.
>
> The truth and the facts are that it's working in most
> places. Whether you or I like it, agree with it or get it
> doesn't matter.
>

Facts are facts and the facts are, Jack is doing very well in many markets, in this period of time. MusicloverII can't admit the actual facts. He just trashes the format. He doesn't have to like it, but I bet a hell lot of other people like it.

> > Yes, because it's far too sophisticated of a format for
> "us
> > people". Spoken like a true left wing save the whales and
> > hump the trees idealogue. I guess the politician part is
> > right.
> >
> > It's small town radio, play anything you can get your
> hands
> > on. Small town radio is fine for small towns, small
> markets.
> > Until you bring in a number one in NYC, Chicago SF or L.A.
>
> > you're not really qualified to have much of an opinion
> about
> > "us people" who have.
> >
> > It's not about "getting it", it's about slapping rah-rah
> > teste pulling yankers like you out of the terminal
> dreamland
> > you're in about A FORMAT (or, lack of it) The ratings will
>
> > come down and the format will crash. Says I. In many
> markets
> > it's not spectacular. The trampolene will bounce and the
> > numbers will settle in the FEW markets that matter most to
>
> > this "new style" of radio. LAUGHABLE.
> >
> > > It's not an attack and has nothing to do with
> > > "dictatorship". There are some who hate the Jack
> approach
> >
> > > because they don't get it, therefore they don't like
> it--
> > > THEN they say it can't and won't work (which is total
> > > denial, since the format is off to a solid and sometimes
>
> > > spectacular start in a number of markets).
> > >
> > > Some act like politicians- if you disagree with them,
> > you're> "attacking" them. THAT is comical.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Whom would that be? Your attack is not very
> > professional,
> > > > and your dictatorship is not going to help you.
> > > >
> > > > > True. And, those who don't 'get it' or harp on the
> > same
> > >
> > > > > little-to-nothing details they don't like about Jack
>
> > are
> > >
> > > > > against it, as well. Small people with no lives,
> > > > > apparently.
> > >
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
You get an A

> Sure.
>
> The "Jack" approach is working in many markets for a number
> of reasons:
>
> * it's different than anything else available on the radio
> dial- musically, presentation, imaging attitude. It is not
> conventional and that is an extremely positive attribute.
>
> * the "playing what we want" is extremely effective with
> audience that's already
> bonded with the station- they understand "we" includes them.
>
>
> * Jack is feeding a growing frustration with repetition and
> a desire for something more than a "typical 300 song"
> playlist for library-based formats.
>
> * the Variety Hits approach is perceived as an "anti-radio"
> approach by it's target audience-they love the fact that
> it's out-of-the-box and unpredictable.
>
> * it gets major points for being fun music to listen to.
>
> * the "memories" aspect of this format is a huge music
> positive- familiarity of the music is a major draw.
>
> * ratings-wise, it can impact ACs, classic hits & classic
> rock.
>
> BTW, these are not my opinions. These come from Variety
> Hits stations' potential listeners (where the whole idea for
> the extra-wide variety came)
> and from those who've adopted these as their favorite
> stations.

Good job, you got an A. Great points.

>
>
>
> > Pretend I'm your professor at a prestigious mid-western
> > communication school. Your assignment is to explain to me
>
> > "how &/or why JACK is good for radio". Remember, this
> > counts toward your grade this semester, so you can't use
> > phrasing like "small minded" or "not getting it" in your
> > thesis. You must be precise.
> >
> > Use somewhere around 50 to 100 words. Long hand is fine,
> > but I'd prefer typed, single spaced.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
Re: six months

> > > Flipped from Oldies on May 12, 2005, 12 noon.
> > >
> > Major players should then restore oldies on stations that
> > would otherwise be competing with themselves...prefrebly
> on
> > AM, but that's my (mono music) opinion, respectfully.
> >
>
> What? This makes no sense to me, explain again, please.
>
Depending on the market, and who owns what station, it MAY be wise to keep oldies alive.(As well as Jack) The Buffalo market is one place that seems to be doing just that...not sure how much longer though. (1520 AM)

The worst mistake, for example, may be to launch Air America on 1520 there, as it may(I said may) take too much away from sister talkers in the same market, but respectfully, there are other options too.

The other point, (yes, on my opinion) is that since oldies were originally recorded in mono anyway, there's no harm in keeping them alive on AM...but respectfully, if FM can find them a home, then...sorry...I've said too much for this board already, and perhaps should visit the oldies board, I guess.
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: yes, again

>> Some listeners might like it, some may hear it as something
> they'd hear on a typical, existing station and totally not
> care for it. <----that comment would be ok if Jack weren't the only station in a certain market playing the type of music that they do. Sure, let the other guys take a "Jack" request, but if you're in a market where the other players in town don't touch "Jack" music, it would be nice to hear a certain song.
Don't just plop Jack there because head office says it worked elswhere.

Cookie cutter isn't always healthy.


<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Jack

To a lot of radio users, Jack is just that- fresh and exciting. the earlier poster's "small market" comment is small-minded. LA, Indy, Nashville, Dallas, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Seattle, Phoenix, Denver, etc., are not small markets. Sure, Jack is off to a slow start in NY & Chicago- there is not one format that works in every single market where it's on (and that has always been the case).

Funny, to us, radio in Australia and New Zeeland seems exciting, different and creative. But I know people from N.Z. who've come here and found American radio just that- it's all in the ear of the listener.


>
> This negative Jack movement is a sign of a bigger problem
> --- if you don't follow the leader, you are of no count.
> Screw that thinking. Instead of trashing Jack, come up
> with something fresh and exciting that'll be #1 in NY, LA,
> Chicago and Dallas. And maybe even "SMALL" markets ---
> which if you add them together add up to about 95% of the
> US population (a reference to your 5% comment above.)
>
> And, please, don't tell me I hate America or ought to go
> back to Australia, etc. I just think that this industry has
> lost it's creativity at such an amazingly fast pace that it
> is disheartening. Can anyone stop the trainwreck we have
> imposed on insiders and listeners alike???
>
 
dodge

You again dodged the point.

The "they don't solicit requests" obsession you insist on is a non-starter. And I never said cookie cutter radio is healthy.

Now, can we please move off this silly, insipid "Jack would be perfect if only their voiceover guy would say 'call me with your request on a Saturday night even if it's b.s. but I know you'll feel better because I said it" rant?


<----that comment would be ok if Jack weren't the only station in a certain market playing the type of music that they do. Sure, let the other guys take a "Jack" request, but if you're in a market where the other players in town don't touch "Jack" music, it would be nice to hear a certain song. Don't just plop Jack there because head office says it worked elswhere.

Cookie cutter isn't always healthy.
 
yes

Seems like he/she thinks like that, huh. Sheesh.


> C'mon Oldiescat, Jack will fail in the Top 5 markets because MusicloverII has
> all the #1 ratings. Give it up, you've met your match. :) You're a small town
> nothing. Relegated to daytime AM oldies. Ha! What a joke. (all, or most???
> meant in jest or disgust..no harm intended.)
>
 
Re: Jack

> Funny, to us, radio in Australia and New Zeeland seems
> exciting, different and creative. But I know people from
> N.Z. who've come here and found American radio just that-
> it's all in the ear of the listener.
>

If you are from New Zealand or Australia and you hear radio in a different country, it sounds fresh and different, probably because they are so used to their own country's radio. Same goes for Americans.

<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
Re: anti-Jack

And herein lies the problem with people. You ask questions when the answers are in front of you. If you'd like to know my answers to your questions and get an idea of what I believe WORKS (as so evidenced by HIGH BILLING, LOW OVERHEAD formats that are actually GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY) you can simply research them on this board. Now I'm not going to tell you what to click to find that out, you'll just have to do something on your own. What's next? Do I have to wipe your ass too?



> And your response to the demise of radio is what uninspring
> done over and over format? All talk jibber all morning? The
> same boring formats (AC, Country, Urban, Classic Rock?) With
>
> your experience as America's #1 programmer in the Top 5
> market(s) -- which I doubt you will ever give us actual
> success/stations info --- why don't you come up with
> something
> that will make listeners want to tune in, instead of bitch,
> flip and iPod.
>
> Oh, and here's an interesting fact. American radio stations
> in general SUCK because NO ONE thinks out of the box. I just
>
> spent a month in Australia and listened to some incredible,
> diverse and addictive radio stations and also had the
> pleasure
> of being able to tell one station that I could not offer
> them
> anything of substance to improve their already great radio
> station because, BEING HONEST, I, like everyone else, have
> fallen for the copycat mentality that is rampant in this
> industry in America, where we should celebrate diversity,
> right.
>
> This negative Jack movement is a sign of a bigger problem
> --- if you don't follow the leader, you are of no count.
> Screw that thinking. Instead of trashing Jack, come up
> with something fresh and exciting that'll be #1 in NY, LA,
> Chicago and Dallas. And maybe even "SMALL" markets ---
> which if you add them together add up to about 95% of the
> US population (a reference to your 5% comment above.)
>
> And, please, don't tell me I hate America or ought to go
> back to Australia, etc. I just think that this industry has
> lost it's creativity at such an amazingly fast pace that it
> is
> disheartening. Can anyone stop the trainwreck we have
> imposed
> on insiders and listeners alike???
>
 
Re: anti-Jack

> And herein lies the problem with people. You ask questions
> when the answers are in front of you. If you'd like to know
> my answers to your questions and get an idea of what I
> believe WORKS (as so evidenced by HIGH BILLING, LOW OVERHEAD
> formats that are actually GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY) you can
> simply research them on this board. Now I'm not going to
> tell you what to click to find that out, you'll just have to
> do something on your own. What's next? Do I have to wipe
> your ass too?

Thanks for the many great suggestions, MusicloverII! I took
your bait and "researched" your replies. All I saw was : RE:
Jack sux, everybody sux, hundreds (well I didn't go that far
through them, I fell asleep)of out of touch comments about
formats that have never been successful, dead air, how bad radio is
and other unimportant facts. I guess it was to good to be true,
someone who makes claims of superiority, success and a positive
attitude could actually bring an intelligent discussion about
radio to the table. Instead, I got the ass wiping comeback.
I apologize for wasting YOUR precious time trying to have a
decent discussion.


Funny, for a guy with such attitude, I have yet to see one
single post that would lead me to believe you are what you
claim to be.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 09/18/05 10:40 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: dodge

> Now, can we please move off this silly, insipid "Jack would
> be perfect if only their voiceover guy would say 'call me
> with your request on a Saturday night even if it's b.s. but
> I know you'll feel better because I said it" rant?
>
I never said that.
I did say that they should have a personality in studio live, not vt'd, taking requests, and playing them.
And no, I won't shut up until a certain station in a certain market plays my request and/or lets me do a dedication. Like I said, if the sation down the dial, that does play my request, played the Jack music that I want to request, there'd be no problem.

Your desire to dictate that this is an obsession and nothing more is not the way to go about it. You're just feeding the problem, and intentionally instigating it. You'd be smarter to ask me who the heck listens to the radio on a saturday night anyway?...unless they're live from a club and taking requests there or something...but I guess you weren't smart enough to ask...and it's not me, at least not every Sat. nite.
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: six months

> > > > Flipped from Oldies on May 12, 2005, 12 noon.
> > > >
> > > Major players should then restore oldies on stations
> that
> > > would otherwise be competing with themselves...prefrebly
>
> > on
> > > AM, but that's my (mono music) opinion, respectfully.
> > >
> >
> > What? This makes no sense to me, explain again, please.
> >
> Depending on the market, and who owns what station, it MAY
> be wise to keep oldies alive.(As well as Jack) The Buffalo
> market is one place that seems to be doing just that...not
> sure how much longer though. (1520 AM)
>

Nashville is one of the few markets with an oldies replacement. WRQQ flipped from Hot AC to Oldies days after the format hole became available. Both Jack and WRQQ have seen ratings increases since the flips so it's been a win-win situation.



> The worst mistake, for example, may be to launch Air America
> on 1520 there, as it may(I said may) take too much away from
> sister talkers in the same market, but respectfully, there
> are other options too.
>
> The other point, (yes, on my opinion) is that since oldies
> were originally recorded in mono anyway, there's no harm in
> keeping them alive on AM...but respectfully, if FM can find
> them a home, then...sorry...I've said too much for this
> board already, and perhaps should visit the oldies board, I
> guess.
>

AM oldies stations have gotten very poor ratings, including the "real oldies" recorded in mono. People simply won't listen to music on AM anymore.
 
A solid effort...

...that would garner a "C". I asked how JACK was good for RADIO, not a station.

Your answer could easily be re-worded to fit any given successful format change.

I want to know what happens to the medium if listeners come to accept JACK as a premise. For a hint, I want you to think how game shows - and then reality shows - took over network TV. Compare and contrast the artistic ramifications to where we are now... Corrolate your answer with current network viewing levels... Reference Marshall Mcluhan...

You know, that kind of sh*t.



> Sure.
>
> The "Jack" approach is working in many markets for a number
> of reasons:
>
> * it's different than anything else available on the radio
> dial- musically, presentation, imaging attitude. It is not
> conventional and that is an extremely positive attribute.
>
> * the "playing what we want" is extremely effective with
> audience that's already
> bonded with the station- they understand "we" includes them.
>
>
> * Jack is feeding a growing frustration with repetition and
> a desire for something more than a "typical 300 song"
> playlist for library-based formats.
>
> * the Variety Hits approach is perceived as an "anti-radio"
> approach by it's target audience-they love the fact that
> it's out-of-the-box and unpredictable.
>
> * it gets major points for being fun music to listen to.
>
> * the "memories" aspect of this format is a huge music
> positive- familiarity of the music is a major draw.
>
> * ratings-wise, it can impact ACs, classic hits & classic
> rock.
>
> BTW, these are not my opinions. These come from Variety
> Hits stations' potential listeners (where the whole idea for
> the extra-wide variety came)
> and from those who've adopted these as their favorite
> stations.
>
>
>
> > Pretend I'm your professor at a prestigious mid-western
> > communication school. Your assignment is to explain to me
>
> > "how &/or why JACK is good for radio". Remember, this
> > counts toward your grade this semester, so you can't use
> > phrasing like "small minded" or "not getting it" in your
> > thesis. You must be precise.
> >
> > Use somewhere around 50 to 100 words. Long hand is fine,
> > but I'd prefer typed, single spaced.
> >
>
 
Re: dodge

> Your desire to dictate that this is an obsession and nothing
> more is not the way to go about it. You're just feeding the
> problem, and intentionally instigating it. You'd be smarter
> to ask me who the heck listens to the radio on a saturday
> night anyway?...unless they're live from a club and taking
> requests there or something...but I guess you weren't smart
> enough to ask...and it's not me, at least not every Sat.
> nite.

The question is, though--are most "all-request shows" really all-request? Anyone who follows radio I think would know that answer. I just wonder how many people who called up Greg Brown at WJMK for the "Brown Bag Lunch" were told by him to request another song if they wanted to get on the air. Bet it happened every day--and that his playlist for the noon hour was already programmed into the AudioVault with just the "weekend/special" rotation list plugged in.
 
Re: A solid effort...

> ...that would garner a "C". I asked how JACK was good for
> RADIO, not a station.
>
> Your answer could easily be re-worded to fit any given
> successful format change.
>
> I want to know what happens to the medium if listeners come
> to accept JACK as a premise.

If listeners come to accept Jack as a premise, that implies either a slowdown or a reversal (I'd certainly speculate the former) in the erosion of radio's listening base. That, alone, is good for the industry, as the alternative is a more rapidly shrinking pie. Now, what if Jack works well for each station that runs it, but the overall pie still shrinks? Then at worst, Jack is no better or worse than any other station for radio as a whole, and is perhaps a better model from a business perspective...which is the best you can hope for under those circumstances.

>For a hint, I want you to
> think how game shows - and then reality shows - took over
> network TV.

Ah, but the game show comparison is inherently flawed. Game shows ruled prime time, and later daytime, when television was a very different landscape. Viewing choices were, essentially limited to an average of 3 to 10 stations in the prime time era, and a few dozen in the daytime era, with the earlier days of cable...and even those cable choices lacked the production values and quality of programming available on the same networks today.

The recent reality craze (yes, you could call the prime-time Millionaire the precusor to the trend, but as a whole format games did not "rule" network TV--only Regis did) is more comparable.

The networks face not dozens, but hundreds of other competitors for viewers' eyeballs...from traditional TV to the web to DVDs to video on demand...and on and on the list goes. Likewise, radio is no longer competing with LPs and tapes...CDs and MP3s, and all of those same competitors network TV faces are all in play. Of course the number of people watching/listening to the "traditional" outlets are shrinking, when the number of options has increased in unprecedented numbers.

Reality TV found a way to cut through the segmentation and bring viewers back to network TV (I leave the arguments of quality to another thread). People who might not otherwise watch the same genres of TV will watch Survivor, perhaps for different reasons, but then the advertisers don't much care WHY anyone watches the show, now do they?

Likewise Jack. If some people tune in for the songs they like but don't hear elsewhere, and others for something else (they dislike DJs, they like the wider range of songs, etc.), the end result is those people are not spending that time with the radio off...and THAT is better than losing them altogether.

Compare and contrast the artistic ramifications
> to where we are now... Corrolate your answer with current
> network viewing levels... Reference Marshall Mcluhan...
>
Marshall M. was a pompous a--, but that's just my opinion.
 
Re: dodge

> The question is, though--are most "all-request shows" really
> all-request? Anyone who follows radio I think would know
> that answer. I just wonder how many people who called up
> Greg Brown at WJMK for the "Brown Bag Lunch" were told by
> him to request another song if they wanted to get on the
> air. Bet it happened every day--and that his playlist for
> the noon hour was already programmed into the AudioVault
> with just the "weekend/special" rotation list plugged in.
>
Yes, perhaps, and staff posing as callers to, huh, but it sounded real, and an alternative to Jack...(no attack on Jack intended). Glad to see Greg employed, he's just doing it the way he's told, I'm sure.

I do know of some other stations that play requests that are already in the computer.
The requested song would have been played 3 or four hours from now, so in 3 or 4 hours the song that was coming up gets fliped with that song...or something like that.

I (and I know it's not just me) apreciate hearing songs people are requesting, and the fun little chit chat the radio personality has with the caller, and the fact that I can call a certain station out there and hear a song that I actually requested shortly after I requested it. It is soooooo not ipod.

If we must, let Jack have thier Jack crowd, but please, don't leave the (inching closer to 6 percent...lol) others out...station down the dial should make them count, and play a "Jack" song. I'm not saying it should go all Jack copy, I'm just saying that if there's a Jack request, play it...please.

As for Jack's success/failure rate, it's still too early to suggest wether it will survive or not, and it can be tweaked if need be, that's the beauty of variety formats.

<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: A solid effort...

> Likewise Jack. If some people tune in for the songs they
> like but don't hear elsewhere, and others for something else
> (they dislike DJs, they like the wider range of songs,
> etc.), the end result is those people are not spending that
> time with the radio off...and THAT is better than losing
> them altogether.

That's a view that a true music driven pd would gladly bring into this thread, but what would a true personality driven pd say...or could one argue that the personality driven pd is dead?<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Jack for radio

Get real- if it keeps people on FM radio vs. going to satellite, it's good for radio. DUH! What more do you want? If X format gets listeners, it's good for radio.

You asked, I answered (according to my Email, to many readers' satisfaction). If you just want me to give you a lot of personal opinion "s*%t" you can shoot down as not good for radio, I ain't playin' that game.


> ...that would garner a "C". I asked how JACK was good for RADIO, not a station.
>
> Your answer could easily be re-worded to fit any given successful format change.
>
> I want to know what happens to the medium if listeners come
> to accept JACK as a premise. For a hint, I want you to
> think how game shows - and then reality shows - took over
> network TV. Compare and contrast the artistic ramifications
> to where we are now... Corrolate your answer with current
> network viewing levels... Reference Marshall Mcluhan...
 
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