"In six months, we'll still play what we want"

[OldiesCat]

hardly

No. Now you're labeling Programmers. There are certainly two types of Program Directors, however- winners and losers.

So, is this how it works- some of you don't get the answers you'd hoped you could refute and now it's personal?


> That's a view that a true music driven pd would gladly bring
> into this thread, but what would a true personality driven
> pd say...or could one argue that the personality driven pd
> is dead?
>

 

[OldiesCat]

double-dodge

You have said just that a thousand times if you've said it once. this has nothing to do with personal desire to "dictate" something- you are obsessed about it and have been very vocal about it, including IN THIS EMAIL!


> I never said that. I did say that they should have a personality in studio
> live, not vt'd, taking requests, and playing them.
> And no, I won't shut up until a certain station in a certain
> market plays my request and/or lets me do a dedication. Like
> I said, if the sation down the dial, that does play my
> request, played the Jack music that I want to request,
> there'd be no problem.
>
> Your desire to dictate that this is an obsession and nothing
> more is not the way to go about it. You're just feeding the
> problem, and intentionally instigating it. You'd be smarter
> to ask me who the heck listens to the radio on a saturday
> night anyway?...unless they're live from a club and taking
> requests there or something...but I guess you weren't smart
> enough to ask...and it's not me, at least not every Sat.
> nite.
>

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: hardly

> No. Now you're labeling Programmers. There are certainly
> two types of Program Directors, however- winners and losers.
>
>
> So, is this how it works- some of you don't get the answers
> you'd hoped you could refute and now it's personal?

That's funny! Sounds like you're saying that the music driven pd is the winner, and the Personality driven pd is the loser.

That's the biz. You're either a music driven pd, or a personality driven one.
Right now, if we must get so personal, I'm sorry to hear you're not professional enough to do more than click a mouse for a few seconds a day.

Music driven pd's are in heaven with the world's easiest format to program.(Jack FM)
You know it, I know it, and the Personality driven pd's are the professionals that actually work for a living to make radio better. 'Nuff said.
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

bull

That's B.S. and you know it. Every word of what you wrote is garbage and those of us who do this for a living every day are wise to it.


>
> That's funny! Sounds like you're saying that the music
> driven pd is the winner, and the Personality driven pd is the loser.
>
> That's the biz. You're either a music driven pd, or a
> personality driven one.
> Right now, if we must get so personal, I'm sorry to hear
> you're not professional enough to do more than click a mouse
> for a few seconds a day.
>
> Music driven pd's are in heaven with the world's easiest
> format to program.(Jack FM)
> You know it, I know it, and the Personality driven pd's are
> the professionals that actually work for a living to make
> radio better. 'Nuff said.
>

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: Jack for radio

> Get real- if it keeps people on FM radio vs. going to
> satellite, it's good for radio. DUH! What more do you
> want? If X format gets listeners, it's good for radio.

BUT if X format listeners are there for the music, without the chatter, there's nothing there to make them feel that they should not listen to whatever durring the ads...but then again, who cares if they hear the ad, just as long as the advertisers see good ratings...right?

Best advice: If the voice over guy is mainly the voice, mention what's coming up, instead of just saying..."in a few seconds Jack is back"
or "at Jack we play what we want...right now, we want to play a commercial"

<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[radiolover78]

blah blah blah

> > Now, can we please move off this silly, insipid "Jack
> would
> > be perfect if only their voiceover guy would say 'call me
> > with your request on a Saturday night even if it's b.s.
> but
> > I know you'll feel better because I said it" rant?
> >
> I never said that.
> I did say that they should have a personality in studio
> live, not vt'd, taking requests, and playing them.
> And no, I won't shut up until a certain station in a certain
> market plays my request and/or lets me do a dedication. Like
> I said, if the sation down the dial, that does play my
> request, played the Jack music that I want to request,
> there'd be no problem.

Most listeners don't even take requests. This requests issue is stupid. All I see anymore is blah blah blah.

>
> Your desire to dictate that this is an obsession and nothing
> more is not the way to go about it. You're just feeding the
> problem, and intentionally instigating it. You'd be smarter
> to ask me who the heck listens to the radio on a saturday
> night anyway?...unless they're live from a club and taking
> requests there or something...but I guess you weren't smart
> enough to ask...and it's not me, at least not every Sat.
> nite.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: bull

> That's B.S. and you know it. Every word of what you wrote
> is garbage and those of us who do this for a living every
> day are wise to it.

But, oldies cat, you're only seeing what fits Jack best, and never seeing what may work for personality driven radio. Your mind is closed to anything that isn't Jack.

You point fingers at people who want requests and accuse them of having an obsession...if that wasn't you, someone did, and for mistaking it for you, I will apologize, but it's not wise to do that.

Radio is a business before it can be anything else. There's no need to label people just because they support something you don't(requests, that is.)
It just makes things slopy when trying to communicate.



<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

Jack for radio

Doesn't matter. Music freaks could say the same about talk-based formats. Listening is listening.


> BUT if X format listeners are there for the music, without
> the chatter, there's nothing there to make them feel that
> they should not listen to whatever durring the ads...but
> then again, who cares if they hear the ad, just as long as
> the advertisers see good ratings...right?

What IS your point on the VO guy??? WHO CARES IF HE SEZ THE WORD "COMMERCIAL"???

> Best advice: If the voice over guy is mainly the voice,
> mention what's coming up, instead of just saying..."in a few
> seconds Jack is back" or "at Jack we play what we want...right now,
> we want to play a commercial"

 

[OldiesCat]

still bull

Again, you're attempting to put words in my mouth and it's not appreciated.

I'm ONLY for what gets (or keeps) radio users to listen to the radio more. We can debate forever the virtues of this format or that, personality or music driven stations, AM vs. FM-- all that matters is how can radio survive and thrive in the face of iPods, satellite, internet and cell phone radio. Some stations will do it with personality-intensive presentations, some will make the music the star. In the end, who cares, as long as we keep listeners.

On the requests thing- it's been YOU who has been incessant about Jack and taking requests. On this, you're again putting words in my mouth- I have never, EVER said I don't support radio stations soliciting requests. You've posted dozens and dozens of times about your pet peeve with Jack not taking requests- so, yes you are labeled as obsessive about it. JACK stations are not the only stations in America who don't solicit requests- why not get on THEIR cases about it? In the end, however- it's all a non-starter because it is just a preference of YOURS, no different than some other person wishing his station had jingles or had a female voiceover person or a better news sounder. It's a very minor, little thing you've managed to make into dozens and dozens of postings.
>
> But, oldies cat, you're only seeing what fits Jack best, and
> never seeing what may work for personality driven radio.
> Your mind is closed to anything that isn't Jack.
>
> You point fingers at people who want requests and accuse
> them of having an obsession...if that wasn't you, someone
> did, and for mistaking it for you, I will apologize, but
> it's not wise to do that.
>
> Radio is a business before it can be anything else. There's
> no need to label people just because they support something
> you don't(requests, that is.)
> It just maks things slopy when trying to communicate.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

blah etc.

<LMAO> but, you don't understand- world peace depends on a "Jack" person or voice saying "call us with a request". The scary thing is, he/she will rant about this in one post, then in another act like they don't understand why he's getting slammed over it- "gee, I'm not making a big deal about that". Sad.
>
> Most listeners don't even take requests. This requests issue
> is stupid. All I see anymore is blah blah blah.
>
> >
> > Your desire to dictate that this is an obsession and
> nothing more is not the way to go about it. You're just feeding
> the problem, and intentionally instigating it. You'd be
> smarter to ask me who the heck listens to the radio on a saturday
> > night anyway?...unless they're live from a club and taking
> > requests there or something...but I guess you weren't
> smart enough to ask...and it's not me, at least not every Sat. nite.
> >
>

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: Jack for radio

> What IS your point on the VO guy??? WHO CARES IF HE SEZ THE
> WORD "COMMERCIAL"???

Good radio should suggest what's coming up...no one said anything was wrong with saying Commercial, just the fact that there's nothing to suggest what the listener may miss if they touch the di..sorry, I mean if they listen to what ever else instead.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: still bull

> putting words in my mouth- I have never, EVER said I don't
> support radio stations soliciting requests. You've posted
> dozens and dozens of times about your pet peeve with Jack
> not taking requests- so, yes you are labeled as obsessive
> about it. JACK stations are not the only stations in
> America who don't solicit requests- why not get on THEIR
> cases about it? In the end, however- it's all a non-starter
> because it is just a preference of YOURS, no different than
> some other person wishing his station had jingles or had a
> female voiceover person or a better news sounder. It's a
> very minor, little thing you've managed to make into dozens
> and dozens of postings.

Jack is the only station that has dictated that there's no point in letting the station know that you have a request. The other guys you speak of that don't take requests say "I'll see what I can do" which sounds so much better because an employed dj said that. EMPLOYED! JOB! It's nice to hear the dj apologize for not being able to find the song later...the EMPLOYED RADIO PERSONALITY! A good talking to the music department either got a better understanding on why a certain tune doesn't fit the format, or how it will be played within an allocated time....and no, I DON'T ASK LIKE THIS...I ask like this.

This advertising business has no room for people to dictate that Jack is the ONLY answer...but respectfully, an option, and nothing more, and it should only be used when...(heh, go figure huh, "Yeziknoradio" had to run...something more than a phone ringing just came up...)<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[musicloverII]

Re: still bull

> I'm ONLY for what gets (or keeps) radio users to listen to
> the radio more. We can debate forever the virtues of this
> format or that, personality or music driven stations, AM vs.
> FM-- all that matters is how can radio survive and thrive in
> the face of iPods, satellite, internet and cell phone radio.
> Some stations will do it with personality-intensive
> presentations, some will make the music the star. In the
> end, who cares, as long as we keep listeners.

You're definitely one of those under the desk servicing lackeys. I can't tell you how many GMs and Regional VPs I told in consultation about everything you now know as competition. My presentations were considered alarmist back in 1998. From cell phone to satellite to internet to music downloading to on demand programming to spot overload and the burn out of employees being overburdened with work. They dismissed them all. And now you want to talk about how you're all about getting or keeping users to listen or tune in more and Jack is your answer? Jack is your Messiah? You're too late and Jack ain't it.

You [like them] lack vision. Just because some new format (let's not kid ourselves here, Jack's not a new idea. It's done day in and day out in small town markets without the smart ass voicers.] is put on doesn't make it great because you're a pawn for the format or the company. Bad ideas and bad formats exist, Jack's one of them. If you can justify this you can justify a Polka Techno House Lounge format too. Your incessant support of such an assinie idea [that you perceive to be a way to keep or get users to tune in more] leads me to believe you were one of the people who wrote out a nice check for me to tell you your future 7 years ago.

Radio crying boo-hoo because it's hard to compete. Hilarious! Mismanagement triggered more competition and ridiculous concepts like Jack will just accelerate the mass exodus to alternative sources of media and entertainment

 

[musicloverII]

Re: You get an A

Was this all in the marketing meeting. Talking and selling points to media buyers. Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Comical. Your pitch is nice but I'll spend my money elsewhere thanks.

> > Sure.
> >
> > The "Jack" approach is working in many markets for a
> number
> > of reasons:
> >
> > * it's different than anything else available on the radio
>
> > dial- musically, presentation, imaging attitude. It is
> not
> > conventional and that is an extremely positive attribute.
> >
> > * the "playing what we want" is extremely effective with
> > audience that's already
> > bonded with the station- they understand "we" includes
> them.
> >
> >
> > * Jack is feeding a growing frustration with repetition
> and
> > a desire for something more than a "typical 300 song"
> > playlist for library-based formats.
> >
> > * the Variety Hits approach is perceived as an
> "anti-radio"
> > approach by it's target audience-they love the fact that
> > it's out-of-the-box and unpredictable.
> >
> > * it gets major points for being fun music to listen to.
> >
> > * the "memories" aspect of this format is a huge music
> > positive- familiarity of the music is a major draw.
> >
> > * ratings-wise, it can impact ACs, classic hits & classic
> > rock.
> >
> > BTW, these are not my opinions. These come from Variety
> > Hits stations' potential listeners (where the whole idea
> for
> > the extra-wide variety came)
> > and from those who've adopted these as their favorite
> > stations.
>
> Good job, you got an A. Great points.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > Pretend I'm your professor at a prestigious mid-western
> > > communication school. Your assignment is to explain to
> me
> >
> > > "how &/or why JACK is good for radio". Remember, this
> > > counts toward your grade this semester, so you can't use
>
> > > phrasing like "small minded" or "not getting it" in your
>
> > > thesis. You must be precise.
> > >
> > > Use somewhere around 50 to 100 words. Long hand is
> fine,
> > > but I'd prefer typed, single spaced.
> > >
> >
>

 

[musicloverII]

Re: anti-Jack

Formats that never made any money. Which ones would those be? You obviously have an issue with reality when it interferes with what you want.

Implementing a format is about fulfilling a need - no matter what. Jack is not a need. Jack was a reaction to technology and radio's own self-abuse.

Jammin' Oldies, Dance and 80s had a great future in Chicago, they billed well and were profitable. They were pulled for a variety of reason that had nothing to do with their success. In fact, Kiss FM Chicago is a dud and has been since it's inception. Energy billed well, the Parent company took a dump not the CHICAGO stations. The 80s format in Chicago had a signal that was stronger in Lake Michigan than it was in the listening area and yet they billed and showed up in their first book.

There were so many reasons people have been told why 80s failed, why Jammin' Oldies failed, why Jack failed. They're all bullshit. There were factors that had nothing to do with the success of those formats in Chicago.

In fact, I dare you to show me where I've ever been wrong in my statements about Chicago radio. Jack in Chicago is a dud, it's a joke and a non-event. Nine FM has evolved a bit and not as crazed as Jack. They seem to be patching things up a bit but I don't expect much out that either.

If you want to live paralell to reality that's fine but when it comes to reality? Leave the room because you can't handle it.

It's hard to have a conversation with someone so unattached from reality. You're not being intellectually honest and I'll no longer discuss any issues with you. It's not worth the time.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: blah etc.

> but, you don't understand- world peace depends on a "Jack"
> person or voice saying "call us with a request". The scary
> thing is, he/she will rant about this in one post, then in
> another act like they don't understand why he's getting
> slammed over it- "gee, I'm not making a big deal about
> that". Sad.

Oh, ok thanks. I'll see if I can get my "world peace" friends to post here. Thanks for the idea.
Radio is an advertising business, not an ipod for the poor, and certainly not an all music business. Personalities matter, and clumping me in with the jingle fan is not going to help either. It doesn't matter what I say, Oldies cat will still be very pro Jack, and I'll still be very pro request. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[tibbs]

Re: anti-typical? anti-social?

You can take your ball and run home, or you can actually be surprised
by my comments here:

> Formats that never made any money. Which ones would those
> be? You obviously have an issue with reality when it
> interferes with what you want.
>

Sadly enough, the only huge moneymakers have been the same five formats
that have been driven into the ground twenty years ago, any we all know
and "love" them. Did you mention Country or Adult Contemporary? No.

The formats that never made any serious money are Jammin' Oldies, Dance and
80's (along with a few specific "screwball" stations like Blu and Red)
BUT, I didn't say they sucked because of the idea to create them, the
problem with them was simply they were (in most cases) disasters because
they were hog-tied by the limited playlists imposed on them by corporate
pencil-pushing safety officer control freaks that sucked the very
creativity out of them in MOST cases, causing them to sink and be duds
before they had a chance. Still, they all are looked on as failures,
and I don't think they were given enough air to survive. So, yes, they are
perceived as failures --- but the industry caused them to implode. You
have to admit you championed the underdog formats. Is that wrong?




> Implementing a format is about fulfilling a need - no matter
> what. Jack is not a need. Jack was a reaction to technology
> and radio's own self-abuse.

I think Jack fills a need and has a better chance to succeed because it's
managed to get suits to buy into it's "all over the map/not play it safe
mentality. Although I think it is a safe mentality and probably will be
abused and stifled out of existence by the safety patrol. I don't know that
it's the future of radio, but it may well be the format that allows some
c-r-e-a-t-i-v-t-y to return in the years ahead. I AGREE 100% that Jacks
a reaction to technology and even more importantly radio's self abuse.
That's probably the best thing you've said, yet. As hard as it is to
admit those facts, they have to be admitted to if radio has any future.
Radio has to be the creative, pro-active, risk taking medium to survive
and it'll cost $$$$ in the short term.

Do I like Jack? 80% yes. Do I think it's the savior of radio? No. I just hope
it gets enough energy and buzz to get creative minds to break the perceived
radio rules that have ruined the entertainment factor of the medium. It's
scary to think Jack is all radio has to bring to the war for listeners ears.
There has to be more.

>
> Jammin' Oldies, Dance and 80s had a great future in Chicago,
> they billed well and were profitable. They were pulled for a
> variety of reason that had nothing to do with their success.
> In fact, Kiss FM Chicago is a dud and has been since it's
> inception. Energy billed well, the Parent company took a
> dump not the CHICAGO stations. The 80s format in Chicago had
> a signal that was stronger in Lake Michigan than it was in
> the listening area and yet they billed and showed up in
> their first book.

The typical knee-jerk reaction of play it safe radio is to jump ship.
What are the formats of these stations today?

And, not specific to Chicago only --- Why hasn't Dance been embraced
by a diverse country like ours? Because so few stations have tried
it? Or are we are a follow-the-leader "it's only cool if everyone's
doing it" nation? 80's could have been so mucher better if done right. I do
think Jammin' Oldies (which some people said was a Jack-like
approach) was just created to late and was to audience limited.
A cool mix ( a word that scares me) of the Dance, right 80's and Jammin'
Oldies could be pretty interesting. A winner of a format? Probably
not because it would never be allowed to sound as tight as it could
because of the cheapness of the industry.

>
> There were so many reasons people have been told why 80s
> failed, why Jammin' Oldies failed, why Jack failed. They're
> all bullshit. There were factors that had nothing to do with
> the success of those formats in Chicago.

Probably people will look at these formats as duds overall. There is always
an exception to the rule. I sincerely hope you'll at least share
the market dynamics with those of us not in Chicago to help us
understand your comments for why they should have succeeded.


>
> In fact, I dare you to show me where I've ever been wrong in
> my statements about Chicago radio. Jack in Chicago is a dud,
> it's a joke and a non-event. Nine FM has evolved a bit and
> not as crazed as Jack. They seem to be patching things up a
> bit but I don't expect much out that either.
>
> If you want to live paralell to reality that's fine but when
> it comes to reality? Leave the room because you can't handle
> it.
>
> It's hard to have a conversation with someone so unattached
> from reality. You're not being intellectually honest and
> I'll no longer discuss any issues with you. It's not worth
> the time.
>

Okay, I'll be intellectually honest and say that your last couple
of posts have been so much better in explaining where you're coming
from. Whether you choose to discuss anything with me or anyone
else is your business. Then again, this is a forum to agree or
disagree (like gentlemen, hopefully) and I hope you don't leave
the room right when I saw a hint of what your thoughts are.


At least for now, you made some points that were interesting and thought provoking that I wish we could discuss. Oh, well, if nothing else, was nice chatting with you this time around.

 

[OldiesCat]

radio

For goodness sake- cat, just forget it. You are clearly in over your head.

>
> Good radio should suggest what's coming up...no one said
> anything was wrong with saying Commercial, just the fact
> that there's nothing to suggest what the listener may miss
> if they touch the di..sorry, I mean if they listen to what
> ever else instead.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

da end

you last two cats are impossible- over & out with the both of you sour grapes.
>
> Jack is the only station that has dictated that there's no
> point in letting the station know that you have a request.
> The other guys you speak of that don't take requests say
> "I'll see what I can do" which sounds so much better because
> an employed dj said that. EMPLOYED! JOB! It's nice to hear
> the dj apologize for not being able to find the song
> later...the EMPLOYED RADIO PERSONALITY! A good talking to
> the music department either got a better understanding on
> why a certain tune doesn't fit the format, or how it will be
> played within an allocated time....and no, I DON'T ASK LIKE
> THIS...I ask like this.
>
> This advertising business has no room for people to dictate
> that Jack is the ONLY answer...but respectfully, an option,
> and nothing more, and it should only be used when...(heh, go
> figure huh, "Yeziknoradio" had to run...something more than
> a phone ringing just came up...)
>

 

[OldiesCat]

You get an A

What a shock. Yes, please do.

> Was this all in the marketing meeting. Talking and selling
> points to media buyers. Yeah, yeah, that's it.
>
> Comical. Your pitch is nice but I'll spend my money elsewhere thanks.