In the next 5 years...

[neutralobserver]

Here's an idea. Let's save money at church. Instead of having a pastor let's just buy tapes of Turning Point and play that for the sermon each Sunday. It is a terrific message from the word, right? No need to waste money on some local who has to come up with some sermon that will never live up to David Jeremiah. Right?

In case you didn't know, that's being done.

The expectations of people are getting higher than the average speaker can meet; so churches are doing worship and ministry live-and-local and using a video from a teacher elsewhere for the message.

Many churches are doing that in-house. John Piper's church, for example -- John's church now has a couple locations (the small, land-locked downtown one and a suburban location where they can grow)...John does the first one downtown live on Saturday and then does the Sundays live at one location or the other only (or maybe neither) with the video of the Saturday played at the other.

Andy Stanley, Ed Young, Bill Hybels, and others are making extensive use of video, too.

But I still don't really understand ChiefEngineer's post.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Add Ed Young, Jr. to the list at Fellowship Church. I would rather have an outstanding pastor on large screen video, than somebody mediocre in person. As long as the music, pastoral care, Christian education, and fellowship groups are local. After 30 seconds, you forget he isn't there in the flesh because the content of the message is so good. This allows access to outstanding pastors to everybody, everywhere. All that is needed is the technology to access it.

I have done the small church scene with a live pastor. It turned into First Gossip Church - as members melted away after being mercilessly gossipped about. I prefer the large, mega church where you are not on the radar of brother and sister pharisee. You come, fine, you are greeted by friendly faces. You don't show up - nobody is going to gossip because you are one of 400 people and everybody knows everybody: "where is _____ this Sunday? did they backslide?"

All too often, Christian radio is run by First Gossip Church. You would think it would be the other way around. But the really good, large churches are often shut out of Christian radio by closed minds and closed allocations.

 

[neutralobserver]

Add Ed Young, Jr. to the list at Fellowship Church.

Why? That's who I was talking about.

His father goes by "Edwin," does he not?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I don't think very many people know that "Ed " is short for "Edwin". I do think it is a three generation tradition, though. I'll have to ask him.

 

[justalurker]

Well I suppose if Christians will accept virtual ministers piped in to their churches fighting the trend of virtual jocks piped in to their local radio station is a lost cause.

BTW: rbrucecarter5 I'm with you on the not wanting to be part of a gossip oriented church. I got burned by a loving couple in a previous church who kept asking where I was last Sunday ... One cannot always pick and choose one's work schedules at their first job unless they don't want to keep said job. Not everyone can work for Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A. They didn't seem to care, but they were beyond the point where they had to work for someone else. So they asked enough times that I got tired of being asked and avoided them. I wish they could just be glad I made it this week instead of condemning last week.

So when the current great preacher fades from the video circuit who will take his place? Plenty of preachers to go around, I'm afraid. With too many growing too big for their egos and honoring a different god in life than the God they preach, until they get caught. That's one nice thing about the local "warts and all" pastor. If he doesn't have a big "public image" to protect he is more likely to be able to reach people instead of teaching them to wear a mask like he wears. The same for the local jock. You can mess up on a local station and it is quirky and forgivable - but put the same content on a national feed and it somehow looks unprofessional.

The fun is gone and the radio is bland ... with the top songs as PUSHED by the record labels, very few local artists (if any) and everything spit shined so no one sees who is behind the mask. It certainly isn't good radio - and if the trend continues, in five years it will not be better radio.

 

[passafistwastaken]

The fun is gone and the radio is bland ... with the top songs as PUSHED by the record labels, very few local artists (if any) and everything spit shined so no one sees who is behind the mask. It certainly isn't good radio - and if the trend continues, in five years it will not be better radio.

Listen let's face it 99% of local artists Suck!! I've gotten many CD's from Local Artists and most of them are bland, if not laughably silly. The assumption that becuae the music is slick that somehow makes it bad is poor thinking. Technology has leveled the playing field so much that you can produce a decent record for half the price of what you used to. AS for independant artists they have to pay their dues and create music people want and just because radio isn't playing their CD's doesn't mean radio is horrible.

This is not college radio, this is big business and independant music doesn't normally cut it.

 

[radioelizabeth]

The image that radio wants to give off is that the DJ is there ... alive in that little room somewhere lovingly selecting each song as if it were a gift from God and personally playing it for you, the listener. Back in the day when there was someone there 24/7 you didn't always get lovingly selected music but at least you had the OPPORTUNITY for a shared experience.

Yes, there were bad jocks who would just spin the songs and wait four minutes reading the newspaper or drinking coffee waiting to spin the next one. Not involved in what they were doing at all. But the opportunity was there. Working a long live shift they had the CHANCE (if they wanted to take advantage of it) to LEARN. They could listen to the song and relate to it. They could learn the music by repitition, not from notes in a cheat book, and with practice they could become the airstaff we all admire. But those long lonely live shifts are almost gone.

Voicetracking five hours in 20 minutes may save the jock time and the station money but it is artificial. The jock from the get go is LYING to the listener about being there and being involved. And unless that jock has run a live shift that is a lie that they are not prepared to tell.

I could try to convince you that I was an airline pilot. I could use the right jargon and quote from a book and probably pull it off. But there would be errors because I have never flown a plane. Even if one now voicetracks, the experience of being live is missing - and without that experience the jock has nothing to share.

Back in the day the DJ would have to suffer through their shift along with the listener - with the DJ having the power to control the suffering. When some insomniac tunes in at 2am and hears a warm friendly voice on the radio it can be comforting ... but when the studio phone rings without answer the listener loses the warmth. That DJ is no longer going through the night with the listener --- they are just faking it. And the listener knows that they are alone.

Some of the best stuff on radio has been devised on the long live shift. When the jock gets bored there is a good chance that the listeners are too. A VT jock just has to make it through 20 minutes and be off to the next thing. But a live jock has to live through the bordom and either accept it (bad jock) or shake things up (good jock) and magically make the presentation less boring for the listener as well. There is so much benefit in working THROUGH things in life - not just skimming over them. If more stations would see the value in having live local jocks there for the listener radio would become better - instead of just another bland vanilla with a few sprinkles.

Listeners might as well take an ipod to work with them for as much human contact they get out of their radio stations today. A decent market will have good drive hosts that are live and local, but it is so easy to flip on the bird and just "provide a ministry" without the expense.

I applaud the stations that resist the urge to go national. That cultivate local talent. That have long weekend and evening shifts where "new talent" can figure out how to be a DJ instead of a jock in the box.

Where will radio be in five years? I don't know. Perhaps there will be a revival in live local radio. Perhaps not. I hope that the revival is coming. The world needs more human connections --- especially from Christian radio.

First, let me say that I am very much in favor of the live jock. I am very much in favor of the live shift....but I wanted to address some of the thoughts on voice tracking and the live shift.

Jocks are not sufferring through the shift with the listener. I think it's a misconception to believe the jock and the listener are even on the same page when it comes to the live shift. Research is not showing the listener glued to the station awaiting the next song and sweeper. They simply don't use radio this way. They are in and out of the station throughout their lives, and won't suffer, period. If they find they are bored...they simply select another station. Our goal is to keep them listening longer, more often...but that does not mean we have kidnapped them and tied them to a studio chair and now we have to find a way to keep them entertained while in our midst. Just doesn't work that way.

Even for a workday station, you simply don't have that kind of attention span when talking about the listener.

The jock on the other hand might very well be bored to tears. The 5 hour studio shift can bring any great talent to tears if they let it....and the urge to "mix it up" can be premature and misdirected if the jock thinks the listener is in the same mindset they are.

No, our responsibility is not to see the listener in the studio with us, but to get into the listener's car, home, office, or wherever they may be. It's not so much something we must do when we crack the mic, as much as where our heads our when we do.

And this is actually where a quality voice tracker often beats the jock. Because they aren't fighting that battle to the same degree. Not in the least. Everytime the track is cut, they are fresh, new, and prepared to be where the listener is...each time. The live jock is hitting a harder reset button, so to speak.

But yes, there is nothing like the live shift. And a quality voice tracker has done them, and has one. I'm a big believer in keeping a live shift in any market where a voice tracker opts to live. Maybe just a weekend gig, or pulling a few part time swing. It simply makes sense to keep it all in perspective, and it allows the voice tracker the luxury of remembering the difference between cracking a mic in one place and the other.

I think there is a lot of assumption that voice trackers are simply generic audio feeds that are sweeping through song selections. And I am the first to admit, there are times, my shifts have been that bad...but that is not a problem reserved to the tracker. That is simply human failing whether in the studio or out. The difference is, in the studio, the PDs and staff can easily see the change in countenance or call you into the office and say "what was that break all about?" or "everything ok, your sounding a bit bland these days"....often times, PDs aren't airchecking their voice trackers and so, the only real difference is that those "generic" moments last longer. And there is no live jock that is going to say they never had a live generic day. Someday, we do, someday, we want to, somedays it is all we can do to pull ourselves out of that blah mood and do the show. And that is why we are called professionals.

Great talent is great talent live or tracked. Period. And great talent will not settle for reaching the bar, but raising it every single time. And even if they miss the bar sometimes, they are still striving to stay on the air with that listener.

I think a lot of people forget, voice trackers are still competing for their jobs, just like the live jock. And this competition ought to compel anyone who has a shift (live or tracked) to be their best every single time...

But it's a mistake to suggest that live and local equals more in touch in regards to how they might relate.

Live and local allows the jock to connect differently, of course...but not necessarily to the degree being suggested always. And not always in the ways it's presented when I watch these discussions take place.

I've been craving a seminar to cover this topic for years. A place where stations can tap into the talent they have in a tracker. And a place we can determine what really is so different, and what is actually very much the same. Someday, maybe...

I used to be in the similar mindset that trackers are simply not telling the truth. But neither is the live jock, not really. Consider that if our perspective is that we are right there with them, there is no "other side of the radio". And there are ways to pull off a shift without telling a bold faced lie, and without the deception that is anything different than what is being done when in the studio. The tracker simply needs to be in the studio...that is the only thing that must change. I use station promotional items and a bit of preparation in my mind, and you know, sometimes I swear I can see the offices down the hall...

I completely agree that we need to be training new live local talent. It's priority. But there is a reason you don't see major market radio training talent in the middle of the day...there is a reason you can't even land a job in a top 10 unless you have proven experience in one of the 25.

It's called working your way up. And so, small market stations have always been the ones taking the risks and cultivating the talent that then moves on to bigger and better things. It's as true in radio as it is in any other profession. The instant success story simply doesn't exist unless you're talking about athletes that are scouted out.

And even then, those athletes are in the minor leagues or playing ball in high school first.

Hoping the analogy is heard.

The same goes for voice tracking. A proven record as a jock is always better than a laptop and a mic anyday. And if a station opts to spend less money, then they will always get what they pay for.

And that is true live or tracked, local or national.

There's probably more, but that's what I've got for now...

 

[neutralobserver]

...there is a reason you can't even land a job in a top 10 unless you have proven experience in one of the 25....The instant success story simply doesn't exist....

Actually, there are a number of such jumps, perhaps the most notable being Mark of "Mark & Kim" on KOST -- Mark made the jump to LA mornings from somewhere in the Dakotas or Idaho or Montana or somewhere around there.

 

[radioelizabeth]

...there is a reason you can't even land a job in a top 10 unless you have proven experience in one of the 25....The instant success story simply doesn't exist....

Actually, there are a number of such jumps, perhaps the most notable being Mark of "Mark & Kim" on KOST -- Mark made the jump to LA mornings from somewhere in the Dakotas or Idaho or Montana or somewhere around there.

You obviously missed the point of the post...and what preluded and followed what you quoted.

There are always exceptions for exceptional talent...but again, even the athletes that make it to the majors, played their games and paid their dues prior to the scout...


"The instant success story simply doesn't exist unless you're talking about athletes that are scouted out.

And even then, those athletes are in the minor leagues or playing ball in high school first.

Hoping the analogy is heard."

That's the complete sentence with the hope the analogy would be grasped. Sorry you missed it.


e

 

[ChiefEngineer]

We have let ourselves be "done in."

When the record companies were purchased by secular labels giving them secular control. This was a big jab at Christian.

Not all local artists are bad. many need help. I hear better cd's now than I heard cassette tapes 20 years ago.

Live jocks. I would love a 12 hour shift like I had in 1975...not. The problem isn't fining an audience, it's finding time to be on the air 4 hours. Not enough volunteers.

 

[radioelizabeth]

We have let ourselves be "done in."

When the record companies were purchased by secular labels giving them secular control. This was a big jab at Christian.

Not all local artists are bad. many need help. I hear better cd's now than I heard cassette tapes 20 years ago.

Live jocks. I would love a 12 hour shift like I had in 1975...not. The problem isn't fining an audience, it's finding time to be on the air 4 hours. Not enough volunteers.

It's a bit of a sad day for me when I read posts here or elsewhere that divide people in half, and create "us/them"...

Wasn't it Jesus who sat in Matthew's house sharing the story of the prodigal while Peter listenened on...

Certainly if we "set ourselves apart" this way, we miss the message behind what that truly means...

How can we blame the "big old secular" folks and make statements that we are so much better, so much holier, so much more, period.

I'm certain I'll hear the argument back that "the world" doesn't comprehend how ministry is done....really? Who defines what is "the world" and what is not? What makes it "Christian"?

Christian is not an adjective.

And why should a person volunteer to be on the air 4 hours? Don't we get what we pay for most of the time? The concept that we ought to just do it from the goodness of our hearts ignores our stomachs need some food to keep that heart beating...

imo

 

[neutralobserver]

So when the current great preacher fades from the video circuit who will take his place? Plenty of preachers to go around, I'm afraid.

No.......there aren't. That's the problem. The bar has been raised. People want better.

With too many growing too big for their egos and honoring a different god in life than the God they preach, until they get caught. That's one nice thing about the local "warts and all" pastor. If he doesn't have a big "public image" to protect he is more likely to be able to reach people instead of teaching them to wear a mask like he wears.

That's really, really, really unreasonable and unfair in so many ways.

The same for the local jock. You can mess up on a local station and it is quirky and forgivable....

Why do you believe that? Where's the listener who finds positives in the jock being a mess?

The fun is gone and the radio is bland ...

Why do you equate "fun" and flavor with screw-ups?

...with the top songs as PUSHED by the record labels,...

The label folks are laughing hysterically right now...

...very few local artists (if any)....

That's a good thing! Local artists are the last refuge of the really desperate.

...and everything spit shined...

That, too, is a good thing.

...so no one sees who is behind the mask.

What's this "mask" thing you keep repeating? And who's hiding? I think most of us have probably been far too revealing at times on the air.

It certainly isn't good radio...

Why is good radio not good radio? Why is bad radio good radio?

 

[justalurker]

Thanks for your well thought out reply. A couple of points.

I used to be in the similar mindset that trackers are simply not telling the truth. But neither is the live jock, not really. Consider that if our perspective is that we are right there with them, there is no "other side of the radio".

True. All radio is a bit of a put on ... but I believe the listener knows what the DJ is doing and can accept that they are there in their little room shuffling songs while they are wherever they are doing whatever they are doing. They don't expect to be in the studio, despite what some consultants may say (to imagine your target demo person sitting in the room with you - Becky is in the room ).

I do believe it helps when that person is there ... playing a song by request or giving an accurate time and temperature. Things that just can't be done as well in a VT. You can fake a request, but what happens when you never answer the phone? Word of mouth spreads pretty quick.

The "other side" exists. The microphone side exists to serve the speaker side. Personally I'd like to see more of that service than less.

It's called working your way up. And so, small market stations have always been the ones taking the risks and cultivating the talent that then moves on to bigger and better things. It's as true in radio as it is in any other profession.

I wonder if the bottom is falling out of radio. Yes, I expect DJs to work their way up ... perhaps even move from market to market as they learn their trade or become a multi-station remote voicetracker. But where to they start? At a station that has canned (VT'd) most of it's DJs? At a small market station that lives off of the bird except during drive time? Is the bottom now broadcast schools or secular stations?

The same goes for voice tracking. A proven record as a jock is always better than a laptop and a mic anyday. And if a station opts to spend less money, then they will always get what they pay for.

And that is true live or tracked, local or national.

True. Stations get what they pay for. In the end though it is the listener and the ministry that pays.

 

[justalurker]

One thing for sure ... if radio becomes more canned with less new talent neutralobserver will love it and I'll hate it! I'm glad that you like the current direction ... because it appears that you are going to get what you want.

Might as well hook the station up to an iPod and put it on shuffle.

 

[radioelizabeth]

Thanks for your well thought out reply. A couple of points.

I used to be in the similar mindset that trackers are simply not telling the truth. But neither is the live jock, not really. Consider that if our perspective is that we are right there with them, there is no "other side of the radio".

True. All radio is a bit of a put on ... but I believe the listener knows what the DJ is doing and can accept that they are there in their little room shuffling songs while they are wherever they are doing whatever they are doing. They don't expect to be in the studio, despite what some consultants may say (to imagine your target demo person sitting in the room with you - Becky is in the room ).

I'd say it isn't Becky in the room with us, as much as we are where she is....or should be.

I do believe it helps when that person is there ... playing a song by request or giving an accurate time and temperature. Things that just can't be done as well in a VT. You can fake a request, but what happens when you never answer the phone? Word of mouth spreads pretty quick.

That will go to how vital a station feels requests are. Personally, I'm not an advocate of request hours. I think it might seem like a great way to connect, but there are other ways that are equally, if not more, effective in doing this. Regarding answering the phone...that can also lend itself to the illusion the lines are jammed...or there is a busy all signal as well. Just depends on each station's use of their hours of tracking, and how they pull it off.

The "other side" exists. The microphone side exists to serve the speaker side. Personally I'd like to see more of that service than less.

We know that yes, and certainly the listner "knows" this as well...but we are to strive to tear that wall down as jocks and communicate as if we were right there with her. If we or they "hear" that wall, we've failed as talent in my opinion.

It's called working your way up. And so, small market stations have always been the ones taking the risks and cultivating the talent that then moves on to bigger and better things. It's as true in radio as it is in any other profession.

I wonder if the bottom is falling out of radio. Yes, I expect DJs to work their way up ... perhaps even move from market to market as they learn their trade or become a multi-station remote voicetracker. But where to they start? At a station that has canned (VT'd) most of it's DJs? At a small market station that lives off of the bird except during drive time? Is the bottom now broadcast schools or secular stations?

You're talking to a person who started in a large market (Major market at the time). So there are always ways to do this in any market, at any level. But overnights are a tool most stations use. Pick a time when you can take that risk to train a talent that has already at least proven they have drive and determination to learn their trade. Having a local jock is not nearly as important as having an eager talent. I don't suggest the bottom, but I certainly don't advocate drive time in a major market either. It's going to depend on the talent and the station and the format. There are plenty of opportunities to work one's way up and prove their ability to pull it off. I was doing morning drive within one year of being on the air. I'm certainly not going to say I din't have to work for that...it was grueling training at the other station...but well worth it. Anyone who is serious about being on the air, needs to simply do whatever it takes whenever it takes it to get there...and yes, PDs need to be looking for that talent. That might mean scanning the dial during those overnight hours or listening online so they can hear the potential and then make the decision to train them to be the best on their station instead.

There are ways...but I think we just need to be looking for them. My first gig came when a PD heard me cut a spot and listened to my passion. He took a risk, but I'm fairly certain if you asked him, it was based on something he heard or thought about the future.

The same goes for voice tracking. A proven record as a jock is always better than a laptop and a mic anyday. And if a station opts to spend less money, then they will always get what they pay for. And that is true live or tracked, local or national.

True. Stations get what they pay for. In the end though it is the listener and the ministry that pays.

Agree.

 

[radioelizabeth]

One thing for sure ... if radio becomes more canned with less new talent neutralobserver will love it and I'll hate it! I'm glad that you like the current direction ... because it appears that you are going to get what you want.

Might as well hook the station up to an iPod and put it on shuffle.

Unless the talent that is on the air learns to keep getting better at their craft...

 

[neutralobserver]

One thing for sure ... if radio becomes more canned with less new talent neutralobserver will love it....

Whoa, whoa, whoa...hold on! That's not true one bit, and I have never said anything like that. Evidently, you've misunderstood something -- or everything -- I've said.

I'm glad that you like the current direction ... because it appears that you are going to get what you want.

I'm not sure there's one thing I like about "the current direction." Again, you've apparently misunderstood something or everything.

Unless you equate "the current direction" with "well-done radio." Otherwise, I don't understand your comments.

 

[justalurker]

I like humans on my radio stations, netural. The best jock I've worked with usually made one mistake per shift ... "well that didn't come out right" kind of error ... nothing major just enough to get away from being "Mr Radio" and become a regular Joe to spend some time with. He didn't plan it, it just happened sometime in his hours on the air. Probably things that most voicetrackers would just hit erase and do over. He had been in radio more than 30 years.

Another jock practically voice tracked his live bits ... constantly pre-recording his bits and erasing them pushing so much for perfection that he lost the humanity. The second guessing seemed to hold him back. He was broken of that pre-record habit and became a better DJ.

I don't want constant errors but absolute perfection shouldn't be the goal either. Churches are not for saints only, I don't believe Christian radio should be limited to only Mr and Mrs Radio with perfect voices and execution. If a local artist sends a station a CD and asks how they can get their song on the air the answer shouldn't be "find a major record label to sponsor you". I realize 99.999% of indie stuff has only a prayer due to talent quality and production quality. (I have a CD of Senator Orrin hatch singing somewhere around here - no joke see http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html ) But there has to be a door to be something more than just a chart follower. (Even charting stations get into the rut of chart following, lest they lose their reporting status.)

Where we will be in five years is the question. Looking back to 2002 and seeing the change since then might provide the answer to what has already changed. Personally the last five years look pretty good ... it was ten years ago when the FCC first allowed unattended operation that the major change occured. When stations had to pay a warm body to be there overnight they might as well have put that body on the air. Today, fewer stations with a warm body and more serving up cold cuts from a VT (or a satellite service).

I'd like to see the radio of 1997 with the technical and production quality of today. I don't believe I will see that again soon.

 

[radioelizabeth]

I like humans on my radio stations, netural. The best jock I've worked with usually made one mistake per shift ... "well that didn't come out right" kind of error ... nothing major just enough to get away from being "Mr Radio" and become a regular Joe to spend some time with. He didn't plan it, it just happened sometime in his hours on the air. Probably things that most voicetrackers would just hit erase and do over. He had been in radio more than 30 years.

Another jock practically voice tracked his live bits ... constantly pre-recording his bits and erasing them pushing so much for perfection that he lost the humanity. The second guessing seemed to hold him back. He was broken of that pre-record habit and became a better DJ.

I'll jump in to say voice trackers who constantly erase and re record are doing a disservice to themselves. What that tells me when I've done it, is that I haven't taken the first attempt seriously...and that is failure. It makes no difference if a talent is in the station's studio, or their own, when that mic is cracked it's got to feel "live" each and every time. This means you believe you don't have the second chance. I let tracks slide if they sound the same as they would if I was on the air....but certainly I take advantage of erase as well....usually just when I realize it wasn't as good as it could have been content wise.