What was the longest a large or medium sized market waited for an independent or
FOX station?
FOX station?
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Independent Stations Question
- Thread starter classictvfan
- Start date
F
FreddyE1977
Guest
wow, great question! Define "large or medium". Do you count a place like Youngstown, Ohio which has
one Fox affiliate which is an LPTV?
one Fox affiliate which is an LPTV?
Mark said:
No, only full power stations
Why have there been no more responses?
The only one I know of that waited for a Fox station was Tyler/Longview, around 4 years IIRC. It took a flip of a CBS station to do it. The other 3 markets I've been in or near as an adult have had Fox since it's 1986-1987 start.
As far as indies, there were none in Amarillo during my years there (unless the Fox station was an indie before Fox started). Dallas-Fort Worth has been served since 1955 with at least one (7 years after the first TV station debuted there). Tyler/Longview had a couple of early UHFs that could be considered indies prior to the market's first VHF/network affil debuted in 1954; since then no indies till the early-mid 1990s (but that wouldn't be counted per the topic as it launched as an LPTV station) and another one later (I'm not sure when it actually debuted but it is now a CW affil). I think the Shreveport-Texarkana Fox station was an indie before Fox came along but I don't know when the station started.
As far as indies, there were none in Amarillo during my years there (unless the Fox station was an indie before Fox started). Dallas-Fort Worth has been served since 1955 with at least one (7 years after the first TV station debuted there). Tyler/Longview had a couple of early UHFs that could be considered indies prior to the market's first VHF/network affil debuted in 1954; since then no indies till the early-mid 1990s (but that wouldn't be counted per the topic as it launched as an LPTV station) and another one later (I'm not sure when it actually debuted but it is now a CW affil). I think the Shreveport-Texarkana Fox station was an indie before Fox came along but I don't know when the station started.
J
Julius Leonard Marx
Guest
classictvfan said:
In my case, I'm not sure how to answer the question.
Let's say were are talking about markets outside the top 50.
And look for the last one to have more than three commercial full-power TV stations.
In that case, some are still waiting. Those get Fox via cable (Fox has a satellite feed for cable systems in markets in which they don't have an affiliate), satellite TV (relaying the same Fox satellite feed) or as already mentioned, a repeater relaying an out of market signal. The same applies to CW.
Independent stations: There really aren't any around any more. It's too bad. The one's I know about had a great mix of local shows (local kids' shows, local cooking shows, local game shows, local news, local movie shows with a local host, local horror movie shows with a local host in lots of bad make-up, local bowling shows, local kids' talent shows), often done live, with syndicated shows and maybe a handful of network shows local affiliates wouldn't clear. They didn't have much money but they operated on guts and creativity. Many markets never got one of these at all.
The western medium-sized markets such as Albuquerque, Salt Lake, Spokane, Colorado Springs, Boise, and El Paso did not have independent stations until the early 80s, and all of them would end up affiliating with Fox by 1987. Infact Colorado Spring's first indy KXRM had only been on for a year when Fox was created and they affiliated with them.
WTIC-TV/DT (FOX) channel 61/D 31 of Hartford signed on in September of 1984, with WTXX-TV/DT (CW) channel 20/D 12 of Waterbury already being on the air as an independent since the spring of 1982. WTIC is one of the origianal FOX affiliates not owned by FOX themselves, going back to the Joan Rivers talk show days of 1986.
Erie, Pennsylvania didn't have an independent station until May 1986, when WETG/66 signed on. It became a charter FOX affiliate that fall.
Wichita, KS didn't get an independent until August 24, 1985 when KSAS Ch. 24 signed on the air, I remember when they first signed on, it was like a breath of fresh air for something different in Wichita at the time, they finally picked up Fox a year later in 86.
Speaking of 1986, Omaha, NE got their first independent with KPTM Ch. 42 and later picked up Fox.
Speaking of 1986, Omaha, NE got their first independent with KPTM Ch. 42 and later picked up Fox.
Re: Independent Stations Question - SOME ANSWERS
The largest market without an independent television station until 1974 was Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This market was even a top 10 market at one point. Channel 53 signed on July 14, 1953, as WKJF-TV. However, financial woes and the fact that it was a UHF station competing against the more established VHF station WDTV-TV (now KDKA-TV) forced the station to sign off in August 1954.
The station returned to air under new owners U.S. Communications in February 1969 as WPGH-TV. However, despite a well-programmed lineup, financial problems continued to plague the station again, forcing it off the air on August 16, 1971.
Under the technical leadership of: Chief Engineer, Robert Boyd, Broadcast Engineer, James G. Miller and others, the station was repaired and updated in 1973. WPGH was finally back on air for good in January 1974, after being sold again in 1973. The deep base & melodious voice of William C. Trushel II was often heard during station indentification & other audio spots.
So Pittsburgh was without an independent station for all intents and purposes until 1969. Then from 1971 to 1974 they were without one.
Orlando, Florida was without an independent television station until 1979 when WOFL signed on.
San Antonio was the last top 50 market to be without an English speaking independent station. Channel 41 had been a Spanish "independent" since the 50's BUT eventually they formed a Spanish Network with othet Spanish stations forming S.I.N. which is now Univision. San Antonio finally got an independent station in September of 1985, 35 KRRT owned by TVX. In 1988, they got their second one 29 KABB owned by River City.
The second to last top 50 market to not have an independent, was Scranton/Wilkes Barre. They got one in June of 1985, 38 WOLF.
Another market without an independent station in the top 50 Was Charleston/Huntington, West Virginia. They got theirs in 1982 with 23 WVAH (now on Channel 11).
The largest market without an independent television station until 1974 was Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This market was even a top 10 market at one point. Channel 53 signed on July 14, 1953, as WKJF-TV. However, financial woes and the fact that it was a UHF station competing against the more established VHF station WDTV-TV (now KDKA-TV) forced the station to sign off in August 1954.
The station returned to air under new owners U.S. Communications in February 1969 as WPGH-TV. However, despite a well-programmed lineup, financial problems continued to plague the station again, forcing it off the air on August 16, 1971.
Under the technical leadership of: Chief Engineer, Robert Boyd, Broadcast Engineer, James G. Miller and others, the station was repaired and updated in 1973. WPGH was finally back on air for good in January 1974, after being sold again in 1973. The deep base & melodious voice of William C. Trushel II was often heard during station indentification & other audio spots.
So Pittsburgh was without an independent station for all intents and purposes until 1969. Then from 1971 to 1974 they were without one.
Orlando, Florida was without an independent television station until 1979 when WOFL signed on.
San Antonio was the last top 50 market to be without an English speaking independent station. Channel 41 had been a Spanish "independent" since the 50's BUT eventually they formed a Spanish Network with othet Spanish stations forming S.I.N. which is now Univision. San Antonio finally got an independent station in September of 1985, 35 KRRT owned by TVX. In 1988, they got their second one 29 KABB owned by River City.
The second to last top 50 market to not have an independent, was Scranton/Wilkes Barre. They got one in June of 1985, 38 WOLF.
Another market without an independent station in the top 50 Was Charleston/Huntington, West Virginia. They got theirs in 1982 with 23 WVAH (now on Channel 11).
Re: Independent Stations Question (Alabama)
Mobile/Pensacola didn't get an independent until WPMI-15 (now NBC) signed on in 1981. Birmingham (market 49 or 50 at the time) didn't get an independent until WTTO-21 signed on in 1982. It went Fox in '91, then went WB in '97, and is now CW. Huntsville's WZDX-54 signed on in 1984. It's now Fox. Montgomery didn't get an independent until 1986 when CBS affiliate WCOV-20 dropped the Eye Network when Selma's WAKA-8 became the CBS affiliate for Montgomery and Selma.
Mobile/Pensacola didn't get an independent until WPMI-15 (now NBC) signed on in 1981. Birmingham (market 49 or 50 at the time) didn't get an independent until WTTO-21 signed on in 1982. It went Fox in '91, then went WB in '97, and is now CW. Huntsville's WZDX-54 signed on in 1984. It's now Fox. Montgomery didn't get an independent until 1986 when CBS affiliate WCOV-20 dropped the Eye Network when Selma's WAKA-8 became the CBS affiliate for Montgomery and Selma.
CT did have an indie station for a little while in 1957. When Channel 3 signed on (as WTIC-TV) for about the first 6 months of its life it was independent. CBS was on the less successful channel 18 (WHCT/WGTH). The Tiffany network went to the more powerful 3, where it still lasts to this day as WFSB. Meanwhile, 18 struggled, even with a subscription format, managed by Charles Osgood, but it was an indie into the 60's and 70's. But I would think cable penetration, or some good hook-ups would pull in stations from Boston or New York.
In 1982, WATR-TV, a secondary NBC station to channel 30 (WKNB/WNBC/WHNB/WVIT) was sold and became the first legit indie in WTXX (now a CW station). Two years later, WTIC-TV (Fox) 61 signed on touting its 5,000,000 watt super signal.
Cable was a factor again as NYC stations 5, 9 and 11 and Boston's 26, 38 and 56 fought for CT TV viewers. In 1991, financially scrapped, WHCT signed off the air, came back with Red Sox baseball and home shopping. But now is getting new life as WUVN--The Univision-owned station.
And for Providence, people had to get the Boston signals for independent TV. In 1981, though channel 64 signed on as WSTG, (Now Fox Providence WNAC).
In 1982, WATR-TV, a secondary NBC station to channel 30 (WKNB/WNBC/WHNB/WVIT) was sold and became the first legit indie in WTXX (now a CW station). Two years later, WTIC-TV (Fox) 61 signed on touting its 5,000,000 watt super signal.
Cable was a factor again as NYC stations 5, 9 and 11 and Boston's 26, 38 and 56 fought for CT TV viewers. In 1991, financially scrapped, WHCT signed off the air, came back with Red Sox baseball and home shopping. But now is getting new life as WUVN--The Univision-owned station.
And for Providence, people had to get the Boston signals for independent TV. In 1981, though channel 64 signed on as WSTG, (Now Fox Providence WNAC).
Richmond, VA didn't get its first indie until 1982 when WRLH channel 35 signed on the air.
Across the state over in the Roanoke/Lynchburg market it wasnt until 1985 until they got their first independent station, WJPR channel 21 based in Lynchburg.
Interesting thing about those two markets within a few years after their first, they each got their second indie( Richmond's WVRN channel 63 and Roanoke's channel 27 ) only to end up losing them within a short amount of time. In the case with Richmond, WRLH bought WVRN and simply shut them down while in Roanoke, their two indies ( channel 21 and 27 ) soon ended up together and simulcast its programming on both channels which continues today as FOX 21 & 27. There is a story about how that came to be, I remember reading it on here. Need to look it up. I do know that WJPR did have billboards up around Roanoke ( Lakeside Amusement Park for example ) telling viewers that their channel 21 is on the air plus the Roanoke paper carried listings for WJPR so that tells me their signal did make it to Roanoke.
Across the state over in the Roanoke/Lynchburg market it wasnt until 1985 until they got their first independent station, WJPR channel 21 based in Lynchburg.
Interesting thing about those two markets within a few years after their first, they each got their second indie( Richmond's WVRN channel 63 and Roanoke's channel 27 ) only to end up losing them within a short amount of time. In the case with Richmond, WRLH bought WVRN and simply shut them down while in Roanoke, their two indies ( channel 21 and 27 ) soon ended up together and simulcast its programming on both channels which continues today as FOX 21 & 27. There is a story about how that came to be, I remember reading it on here. Need to look it up. I do know that WJPR did have billboards up around Roanoke ( Lakeside Amusement Park for example ) telling viewers that their channel 21 is on the air plus the Roanoke paper carried listings for WJPR so that tells me their signal did make it to Roanoke.
When it launched in 1980, WUHF in Rochester, NY was an independent until FOX came along in 1986.
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