Indianapolis area tv

[kd8hho]

another topic made me wonder after i thought about it. we all know the DTV is coming in feb. and i have noticed horrible reception on the indy tv stations up in anderson via rabbit ears.

has the indy tv's lowerd there analog power?

 

[Mid West Clubber]

The indy signals are horrible on Rabbit ears in Martinsville too, especially the UHF ones,,, Even Channel 4 is snowy here on rabbit ears and i can see the tower from my house.. I think they have definately lowered power in the last few years... CH 6 is the hardest VHF to get here.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

6 and 4 both replaced Biblical proportion antennas with replacements that are less than, well, Biblical. 6 installed a kathrein Scala that places large nulls over majorities of their coverage area. 6 lowered their main analog down the tower to put the dtv on top.

Several letters in the Ch 6 public file after this change note people like Don in Waldron not being able to pick up a snow free signal at 100 feet with the antenna pointed at 6. Greenfield has lousy 6 reception and shelbyville also. The big null is out East and S East. They placed the good signal over Carmel. Muncie cable complained, as did cable baords in other areas. The large number of letters requesting DISH waivers and people who can't hear the station in their cars (in Beech Grove in one case, Whitestown in another) are also noted.

I can't see where the analog change was a win-win.

Bad news on 6 is their dtv has a similar signal in Greenfield. 2nd floor with rabbit ears is bad. Mostly pixelvision.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

I don't know of any signal drops, although it seems like TBN 42 (Bloomington?) is off the air.

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

Wow! That you can see WTTV's tower, but the picture has snow is really something. I remember picking up WTTV here - just northeast of downtown Cincinnati back in the early 1960's. I had a friend about five miles away who could pick it up regularly with rabbit ears on top of the TV in the first floor of his house. Back in those days, the station's tower was one of the highest in this part of the country. I remember the announcement at sign-off gave the tower height at one thousand and something feet and noted the transmitter and tower were located in Trafalgar, Indiana.

Another reception story - I attended a college in south-central Kentucky. In the Fall of 1963, a television was placed in the lounge of a dorm with the antenna on the top of a 20-foot mast on the roof of that two-story dorm. There was no rotor, so the antenna was aimed northwest toward Louisville about 100 miles away. Under this set-up, the one station that could be received on a regular basis was WAVE-TV, Channel 3 in Louisville. It was soon discovered when the dial was tuned to Channel 4 that WTTV could be received. It turned out that it came in on many occasions. Apparently, the antenna was pointed in such a direction toward Louisville that in was also pointing at WTTV's tower south of Indianapolis. Figure the 100 miles to Louisville plus the 75 miles or so to WTTV's tower and that's quite a signal.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

As a side note, WHAS 11 Louisville reduced their analog power by 50% in October. They'll sign on with HD on 11 next month. The 50% power cut made very little difference here.

 

[bigtime]

Obama wants to delay the February switch to DTV. Consumers will be happy but tv execs are not. In an all DTV world some tv stations will be losing audience though.
People are willing to watch a snowy WRTV or WTTV but they CAN'T watch when there's NO DTV signal.

 

[KeithE4]

Wow! That you can see WTTV's tower, but the picture has snow is really something. I remember picking up WTTV here - just northeast of downtown Cincinnati back in the early 1960's. I had a friend about five miles away who could pick it up regularly with rabbit ears on top of the TV in the first floor of his house. Back in those days, the station's tower was one of the highest in this part of the country. I remember the announcement at sign-off gave the tower height at one thousand and something feet and noted the transmitter and tower were located in Trafalgar, Indiana.

I think the WTTV tower is about 1250 feet tall, and since Trafalgar is about 25 miles due south of Indy (to make sure that it can put a city-grade signal into Bloomington), chances are you'd get WTTV better in Cincinnati than the other Indy stations. WISH-TV Channel 8 transmitted from somewhere on the SE side of the city in those days, so you might have been able to pick it up fairly well too.

But in Bloomington in the early '60s, we could hardly get Channel 13! Always snowy, even with a big antenna.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Obama wants to delay the February switch to DTV. Consumers will be happy but tv execs are not. In an all DTV world some tv stations will be losing audience though.
People are willing to watch a snowy WRTV or WTTV but they CAN'T watch when there's NO DTV signal.

You make a good point that is not mentioned nearly enough. Places like Effingham,IL might as well not even bother with the Terre Haute TV transmitters being 62 miles away. They will simply lose over the air TV unless they are very serious about it. The basic idea of HDTV is good, but they should have made provisions to produce a solid HD signal to all viewers can get get a snowy analog signal. But then the governement wouldn't have had excess frequencies to sell off and make money, which at the end of the day is what this whole transition boils down to. This flaw will become quite evident next month...gotta run...my stock broker just called back...time to go buy stock in DISH Newtork...2009 will be a good year for them.

 

[kd8hho]

well here is my list. as posted in another topic

in 2007 this is what i got

chan--call-location
4 WTTV bloomington fuzzy watchable
6 WRTV Indianapolis fuzzy watchable
8 WISH Indianapolis clear
13 WTHR Indianapolis clear
20 WFYI Indianapolis clear
23 WNDY Marion (tower on 246th st cicero,in i beleve) clear
29 WTTK kokomo clear
32 unknown? something was there verry faint pic in the snow. sometimes sound
40 WHMB Noblesville fuzzy watchable
42 WCLJ Bloomington something was there verry faint pic in the snow. sometimes sound
49 WIPB Muncie clear
59 WXIN Indianapolis clear
63 WIPX Bloomington something was there verry faint pic in the snow. sometimes sound


today 1/8/2009 my list

chan--call-location
4 WTTV bloomington gone
6 WRTV Indianapolis gone
8 WISH Indianapolis moderate/severe fuzz
13 WTHR Indianapolis moderate fuzz
20 WFYI Indianapolis gone
23 WNDY Marion (tower on 246th st cicero,in i beleve) clear / light fuzz
29 WTTK kokomo fuzzy bad
32 unknown? gone
40 WHMB Noblesville gone
42 WCLJ Bloomington gone
49 WIPB Muncie fuzzed
59 WXIN Indianapolis fuzzy bad
63 WIPX Bloomington gone

32 (lousville/chicago/BFE?) i allways wonderd what station it was there when sound poped in it was never at a time of a ID

 

[KyDXIn]

As a side note, WHAS 11 Louisville reduced their analog power by 50% in October. They'll sign on with HD on 11 next month. The 50% power cut made very little difference here.

Glad to hear you can still get WHAS, though I've stopped watching their news after Ken Schulz left. (The station didn't fire him after 30 years of service-- they were just going to move him to weekends with a cut in pay-- so he "retired".)

Anyway, I'm wondering would it be such a disaster if the DTV signals were increased 10 times, 25 times, from their current power?

Would there be as much interference with a digital signal as an analog signal?

I'm reminded of the story in the 1950s when Cincinnati got their first TV stations-- WLWT and WCPO. In Louisville, WAVE began as Channel 5, and WHAS was on Channel 9. Within a few years both stations in Louisville were moved to reduce interference with their Cincy counterparts.

If this were to happen today, would the same thing happen with the digital signal? Lets say if your lived in Madison and pointed your antenna to the northeast, could you pick up WLWT on Channel 5? If you turned your antenna to the southeast, could you pick up WAVE on Channel 5? With a digital signal pretty much being an all or nothing deal, could a person in Madison get both stations with a rotor?

Will a DXer be able to receive anything with an antenna and a rotor? Being a person without cable, I think it would be nice to turn my antenna to the north to receive the Indianapolis stations, and to turn it to the south to receive the Bowling Green (or even Nashville) stations.

Thanks for your input. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that even the FCC doesn't have answers to these questions.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

As a side note, WHAS 11 Louisville reduced their analog power by 50% in October. They'll sign on with HD on 11 next month. The 50% power cut made very little difference here.

Glad to hear you can still get WHAS, though I've stopped watching their news after Ken Schulz left. (The station didn't fire him after 30 years of service-- they were just going to move him to weekends with a cut in pay-- so he "retired".)

Anyway, I'm wondering would it be such a disaster if the DTV signals were increased 10 times, 25 times, from their current power?

Would there be as much interference with a digital signal as an analog signal?

I'm reminded of the story in the 1950s when Cincinnati got their first TV stations-- WLWT and WCPO. In Louisville, WAVE began as Channel 5, and WHAS was on Channel 9. Within a few years both stations in Louisville were moved to reduce interference with their Cincy counterparts.

If this were to happen today, would the same thing happen with the digital signal? Lets say if your lived in Madison and pointed your antenna to the northeast, could you pick up WLWT on Channel 5? If you turned your antenna to the southeast, could you pick up WAVE on Channel 5? With a digital signal pretty much being an all or nothing deal, could a person in Madison get both stations with a rotor?

Will a DXer be able to receive anything with an antenna and a rotor? Being a person without cable, I think it would be nice to turn my antenna to the north to receive the Indianapolis stations, and to turn it to the south to receive the Bowling Green (or even Nashville) stations.

Thanks for your input. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that even the FCC doesn't have answers to these questions.

I know of an example that answers your question directly. A DXer in Charleston,IL has WILL DT 9/Urbana,IL (43 miles) and WISH DT 9/Indy (108 miles) on the same channel. He can watch WILL DT fine until the band conditions improve as they do on most warm season mornings. Even with his monster sized VHF antenna, WILL is unwatchable for several hours a day--at 43 miles. A couple examples here regarding HD/analog interference: WCPO 9 (77 miles) and WISH DT 9 (41 miles). WISH DT slams the meter in RF level, but the signal quality never tops 78%...presumably because of WCPO analog. I'll be watching to see if that improves next month. WCPO analog used to be 90% snow free here...since WISH DT came on, it's about 70% snow. Other example is WNDY DT 32/north of Indy (55 miles) and WLKY 32 (70 miles). Seeing WNDY DT has happened just a few times. WLKY was once snow free...now it has 30% snow. I'll be glad to see half these transmitters shut off so I can watch what's left in peace!

I can't see WHAS DT 55 since something 12 miles west of me went full power HD on 54 or 56. I look forward to their return to 11 in DT.
FYI...you have a Low Power TV station in greater Louisville that really rocks. WBKI 28. When I hook a small TV straight to one of my antennas (bypassing all the preamps & splitters & coax to get it into the house), it's got about 10% snow. If this were a 5000000 watter, it would be lethal.

FCC had the right idea on UHF. For some reason they gave UHF DT's 20% of their analog power (I would have preferred 100%, but they didn't ask me--population is spreading out from city centers--we need more signal, not less...duh). VHF's didn't fare as well, coming in under 10% it seems. Plus VHF has more noise to over-ride than UHF. Hopefully there will be some channels moved around as we see exactly what the 'growing pains' will be next month.

 

[KyDXIn]

As a side note, WHAS 11 Louisville reduced their analog power by 50% in October. They'll sign on with HD on 11 next month. The 50% power cut made very little difference here.

Glad to hear you can still get WHAS, though I've stopped watching their news after Ken Schulz left. (The station didn't fire him after 30 years of service-- they were just going to move him to weekends with a cut in pay-- so he "retired".)

Anyway, I'm wondering would it be such a disaster if the DTV signals were increased 10 times, 25 times, from their current power?

Would there be as much interference with a digital signal as an analog signal?

I'm reminded of the story in the 1950s when Cincinnati got their first TV stations-- WLWT and WCPO. In Louisville, WAVE began as Channel 5, and WHAS was on Channel 9. Within a few years both stations in Louisville were moved to reduce interference with their Cincy counterparts.

If this were to happen today, would the same thing happen with the digital signal? Lets say if your lived in Madison and pointed your antenna to the northeast, could you pick up WLWT on Channel 5? If you turned your antenna to the southeast, could you pick up WAVE on Channel 5? With a digital signal pretty much being an all or nothing deal, could a person in Madison get both stations with a rotor?

Will a DXer be able to receive anything with an antenna and a rotor? Being a person without cable, I think it would be nice to turn my antenna to the north to receive the Indianapolis stations, and to turn it to the south to receive the Bowling Green (or even Nashville) stations.

Thanks for your input. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that even the FCC doesn't have answers to these questions.

I know of an example that answers your question directly. A DXer in Charleston,IL has WILL DT 9/Urbana,IL (43 miles) and WISH DT 9/Indy (108 miles) on the same channel. He can watch WILL DT fine until the band conditions improve as they do on most warm season mornings. Even with his monster sized VHF antenna, WILL is unwatchable for several hours a day--at 43 miles. A couple examples here regarding HD/analog interference: WCPO 9 (77 miles) and WISH DT 9 (41 miles). WISH DT slams the meter in RF level, but the signal quality never tops 78%...presumably because of WCPO analog. I'll be watching to see if that improves next month. WCPO analog used to be 90% snow free here...since WISH DT came on, it's about 70% snow. Other example is WNDY DT 32/north of Indy (55 miles) and WLKY 32 (70 miles). Seeing WNDY DT has happened just a few times. WLKY was once snow free...now it has 30% snow. I'll be glad to see half these transmitters shut off so I can watch what's left in peace!

I can't see WHAS DT 55 since something 12 miles west of me went full power HD on 54 or 56. I look forward to their return to 11 in DT.
FYI...you have a Low Power TV station in greater Louisville that really rocks. WBKI 28. When I hook a small TV straight to one of my antennas (bypassing all the preamps & splitters & coax to get it into the house), it's got about 10% snow. If this were a 5000000 watter, it would be lethal.

FCC had the right idea on UHF. For some reason they gave UHF DT's 20% of their analog power (I would have preferred 100%, but they didn't ask me--population is spreading out from city centers--we need more signal, not less...duh). VHF's didn't fare as well, coming in under 10% it seems. Plus VHF has more noise to over-ride than UHF. Hopefully there will be some channels moved around as we see exactly what the 'growing pains' will be next month.

Thanks for the info. Thats some amazing results, especially not being able to pick up a station only 43 miles away on what I would think is flat terrain! What will the people in Eastern Kentucky do? Will translators be popping up like cell-phone towers? Will TV stations be leasing space on cell phone towers?

I'm not sure if you realize that despite being branded CWLouisville, WBKI is licensed for Campbellsville, KY. I'm guessing once it goes digital you will be without a CW affiliate?

 

[bigtime]

Might the tv operators be anxious for DTV so they can turn off their analog transmitters? How much does it cost to run an analog signal like WTHR's compared to the digital? Are the local Indy stations all running full power DTV signals now or are they holding back until they can turn the old xmtrs off?

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I believe that everyone is running some serious HD muscle at this point, but I'm sure there will be changes. Example, WTHR is return to 13 in HD and abandon their temporary--but potent--UHF signal. Others using side mounted antennas for DT will likely remove their analog antenna & perch their permanent HD antenna on top, thus improving coverage. WISH has an app or cp to boost their HD power by several kilowatts once WCPO 9 in Cincy shuts down. All in all, Indy's pretty far down the HD path.

There are 2 WBKI's...one in Campbellsville (I have seen their DT a couple of times) on 34 (?) and WBKI LP 28 that runs about 30 kilowatts from Floyd's Knobs, IN. The LP is far stronger here than Campbellsville's full power station.

 

[w9wi]

FCC had the right idea on UHF. For some reason they gave UHF DT's 20% of their analog power (I would have preferred 100%, but they didn't ask me--population is spreading out from city centers--we need more signal, not less...duh). VHF's didn't fare as well, coming in under 10% it seems. Plus VHF has more noise to over-ride than UHF. Hopefully there will be some channels moved around as we see exactly what the 'growing pains' will be next month.

Analog and digital power are not directly comparable. The 1000kw UHF DTV maximum is closer to equivalent to 2500-3000kw analog -- still less than 100% but not nearly as far short as it appears.

(the power of a TV station - either analog or digital - varies with time.

The quoted power of a DTV station is averaged over time - a "1000kw" DTV station may at any given instant be running less than 1000kw, or more than 1000kw.

The quoted power of an analog station is peak power - the highest power the station ever generates. A "1000kw" analog station will never be running more than 1000kw, but it will usually be running less.)

VHF DTVs probably mainly didn't fare as well because they had to protect existing VHF analog stations. (it was easier to find an open UHF channel for DTV operation than to find an open VHF channel) Quite a few will be able to increase power after transition, when the analog stations go off and don't have to be protected anymore. However, high-band VHF was still awfully popular for DTV and I doubt many stations will be able to increase to the full maximum limit.

 

[kd8hho]

another thing i been wondering for the stations that will be on a new channel (not going back to there analog chan) will they re-brand themselves like
WISH-TV 8 becoming WISH-TV 9

 

[radiorob2.0]

The branding will, in almost all cases, remain the same. The tuner will display the ID desired by the station.

In this neck of the woods the display and actual DT channel will be interesting.

WTVW analog 7 will stay on digital 28. However, WEHT analog 25 and currently digital 59 but will move to digital 7. Try to explain that to a lay person.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

WTVW is one of the few telling viewers the actual channel. While most tvs find all available channels the converters dont.

The big story is cable companies gouging consumers. All stations may be removed from analog feeds. So far all weather channles pulled. EWTN pulled because according to Comcast EWTN wanted digital. It only feeds in analog. Comcast claims the FCC made them switch to HD. Most customers have basic analog service. Another 30 bucks monthly for digital tier.

Used to watch wttv in Evansville on rabbit ears. Even when W04BV signed on at 10 watts herringbone on it in most places.

I have great concerns with interference to digital receivers from any signal based on tests here. Not sure of the selectivity.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

While most tvs find all available channels the converters dont.

They should. I know the Radio Shack convertors do.