Infinity and Jack and WRBQ

[RMarino]

Today Infinity flipped two HUGE oldies stations to Jack-FM: WCBS-FM in New York and WJMK in Chicago. Neither were doing poorly, in fact CBS-FM was Infinity's highest rated FM in New York (and it made $34.1 million last year). Now it's jockless Jack-FM. Evidently there are no "sacred cows" when it comes to Infinity's oldies stations. I'm beginning to think maybe we'll be seeing it happen at WRBQ. Personally I think it's a bonehead decision to flip stations with such heritage, something like 33 years for CBS-FM (as oldies) and of course almost 32 years for WRBQ, when they are still very successful.

So don't be surprised if we see 104.7 Jack-FM in the next few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong, but if Infinity didn't think twice about ditching over 30 years of heritage and branding of WCBS-FM, who's to say they wouldn't do the same thing to WRBQ.

 

[byron]

Both of the two big stations are also still streaming as 'Jack's on Radio@AOL.

> Today Infinity flipped two HUGE oldies stations to Jack-FM:
> WCBS-FM in New York and WJMK in Chicago. Neither were doing
> poorly, in fact CBS-FM was Infinity's highest rated FM in
> New York (and it made $34.1 million last year). Now it's
> jockless Jack-FM. Evidently there are no "sacred cows" when
> it comes to Infinity's oldies stations. I'm beginning to
> think maybe we'll be seeing it happen at WRBQ. Personally I
> think it's a bonehead decision to flip stations with such
> heritage, something like 33 years for CBS-FM (as oldies) and
> of course almost 32 years for WRBQ, when they are still very
> successful.
>
> So don't be surprised if we see 104.7 Jack-FM in the next
> few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong, but if Infinity didn't
> think twice about ditching over 30 years of heritage and
> branding of WCBS-FM, who's to say they wouldn't do the same
> thing to WRBQ.
>

 

[Ivan]

Oldies Q105 must die.

Oldies Q105 must die. Bring on Jack FM. I know I've been listening to 100.7 on weekends lately because of the everything format. This is the first time I've listened to 100.7 for more than five minutes. I even added them to the presets on my radio.

Someone really should put oldies on a solid AM station. It would be a hit as well. Good Times Oldies Radio 1040?

 

[studiotwenty]

> Today Infinity flipped two HUGE oldies stations to Jack-FM:
> WCBS-FM in New York


Funny, WCBS FM used to throw in the occasional hit tune along with their oldies. Case in point, Harry Harrison once came out of "Palisades Park" and segued into "Little Red Corvette", at that time a current hit.

They should have just reworked CBS FM to what they used to be without the twenty something "geniuses" that probably made this latest switch...

 

[sbe]

Re: Oldies Q105 must die.

Great Idea.... How about the Home of the Best Oldies? WHBO?? Hmmmmm ring a bell? 1040???? Actually I was shocked to see them flip CBS... Just last weekend on WABC's famous rewind show, Cousin Brucie was talking up WCBS quite well....Oh Well, at least Chicago still has oldies on 1690, a very good station. If you take Infinity's logic, then the Tampa station they will blow up for Jack will not be WRBQ, but WQYK itself.


> Oldies Q105 must die. Bring on Jack FM. I know I've been
> listening to 100.7 on weekends lately because of the
> everything format. This is the first time I've listened to
> 100.7 for more than five minutes. I even added them to the
> presets on my radio.
>
> Someone really should put oldies on a solid AM station. It
> would be a hit as well. Good Times Oldies Radio 1040?
>

 

[robk]

>
> So don't be surprised if we see 104.7 Jack-FM in the next
> few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong, but if Infinity didn't
> think twice about ditching over 30 years of heritage and
> branding of WCBS-FM, who's to say they wouldn't do the same
> thing to WRBQ.
>


Yep. I agree......after NY and Chicago......anything is possible. it's easy to see what this is all about : It's all about the demo, specifically, lowering of the target demo.

Yes these stations had ''heritage'', solid 12+ numbers and superior 35-54 numbers.....but for whatever reason....Infinity feels that they no longer want to sell ''older'' demo's. It's obviously not desired anymore.

It's a change of target from 35-54 to 25-44.

Maybe they belive they can carry some of the oldies listeners over to jack as well.....especially when there is no oldies station anymore.

I have a question , how does the existance of an 80's formatted station , such as WPOI 101.5 affect the chances of a flip to jack in a market such as Tampa ?
I notice the 80's content is heavy......is this the next generation of a station such as WPOI. Seems they would stand to lose share as much or more than any other station.....in the even of a ''jack'' arrival.

 

[Part-timer]

>> Yes these stations had ''heritage'', solid 12+ numbers and
> superior 35-54 numbers.....but for whatever
> reason....Infinity feels that they no longer want to sell
> ''older'' demo's. It's obviously not desired anymore.
>
> It's a change of target from 35-54 to 25-44.


Actually an AE at CC's Tampa cluster told a PD friend of mine recently that it's not so much what they want to sell, but a shift in what the agencies want to buy. The grocery chains, for instance, are shifting their target to 18-34 females because they fell that demo can he persuaded to change brands more easily. Once women are over 35 their shopping habits are pretty much set in stone, so they're trying to build brand loyalty with a new generation.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>

 

[robk]

> >> Yes these stations had ''heritage'', solid 12+ numbers
> and
> > superior 35-54 numbers.....but for whatever
> > reason....Infinity feels that they no longer want to sell
> > ''older'' demo's. It's obviously not desired anymore.
> >
> > It's a change of target from 35-54 to 25-44.
>
>
> Actually an AE at CC's Tampa cluster told a PD friend of
> mine recently that it's not so much what they want to sell,
> but a shift in what the agencies want to buy. The grocery
> chains, for instance, are shifting their target to 18-34
> females because they fell that demo can he persuaded to
> change brands more easily. Once women are over 35 their
> shopping habits are pretty much set in stone, so they're
> trying to build brand loyalty with a new generation.
>


Makes sense.....younger people have more of an open mind......win them over younger and maybe when they are older they will be ''set in stone'' with your brand. after all...advertising is an attempt to persuade someone into buying your brand......dollar for dollar....who do you want try to persuade......a more open mind, or less open ? This would certainly apply to a grocery chain's advertising......grocery shopping is an all age adult activity.

 

[altsped]

I believe the VP of Programing for Infinity is the same guy who was VP of programing for AM/FM in the late 90's. He did the same thing then. He went around the country blowing up VERY sucessful and VERY PROFITABLE Oldies stations for the "Jammin Oldies" format he claimed to have invented. He said everyone listening to Oldies was dieing. Every single one of those stations went down the toilet. He cost AM/FM $Millions. He finally decided "to spend more time with his family" in other words, he was "allowed to resign".

 

[Frank_Ferreri]

>Although the name of the format is silly, the concept is old. Variety. For those of you who are old enough to remember the Ed Sullivan Show. Opera, dancing bears, The Beatles, and Phylis Diller all on the same show. The little narrow format niches devided by decades is simply too targeted. Then when you miss the bullseye you have nothing else! Everybody is a programmer at heart and it is fun to speculate. Here is my scenario and two cents. Return 104.7's identity to Q105. Cash in on the heritage of the station (i.e. WFLA) Play a large variety including some current music. Make it a full service type of station. It can remain an "oldies" station without calling it an oldies station. YUU would be the likely candidate to become Jack (or whatever). Speaking of YUU, why not drop the word "country"? When you become "country" or "rock" or whatever genre tag you put on your station, you alienate a certain number of people who have a perception of the genre.

Always has interested me the way a station like DUV is discounted because of "demographics" and those wonderful folks who place ad buys will not buy certain stations. These same buyers are putting a jillion dollars into news paper because the paper has a circulation of so many thousands. More human beings listen to DUV in this market than any other station. Also, what do demographics tell us beside age? NOTHING! No two 35 year olds are the same. No two 60 year olds are the same. Yet, they will put a brinks truck of money in newspaper based on cume numbers. Does the radio industry do itself wrong by becoming so targeted? Additionally, the word "commercial" in the radio industry has become something bad. "fewer commercials" "Commercial free blah, blah, blah". Yet in today's St. Petersburg Times on the top of an insert is printed "More Advertisments Inside".

If you have read this, thank you. Feels good to air some thoughts every now and then.

Today Infinity flipped two HUGE oldies stations to Jack-FM:
> WCBS-FM in New York and WJMK in Chicago. Neither were doing
> poorly, in fact CBS-FM was Infinity's highest rated FM in
> New York (and it made $34.1 million last year). Now it's
> jockless Jack-FM. Evidently there are no "sacred cows" when
> it comes to Infinity's oldies stations. I'm beginning to
> think maybe we'll be seeing it happen at WRBQ. Personally I
> think it's a bonehead decision to flip stations with such
> heritage, something like 33 years for CBS-FM (as oldies) and
> of course almost 32 years for WRBQ, when they are still very
> successful.
>
> So don't be surprised if we see 104.7 Jack-FM in the next
> few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong, but if Infinity didn't
> think twice about ditching over 30 years of heritage and
> branding of WCBS-FM, who's to say they wouldn't do the same
> thing to WRBQ.
>

 

[heinrich]

My thoughts EXACTLY. After all isn't that what Q105 was to a certain extent? Lets say Infinity decides to bring the JACK format to WRBQ. Why pay to licence the "Jack" name for one more station? Why not bring back Q105 and have the "play anything" format. Simple business here, why pay for something if you don't have to. You have a brand (Q105) that was very successful years ago, a brand that many people in this area are familiar with. Not too many listeners, in my opinion, are familiar with the "Jack" name, at least from what I can tell from talking to friends about it but the same friends remember Q105. My point here is spend money trying to establish a new brand (Jack) or spend money advertising an established brand (Q105)with the "play anything" format. If I was in charge, that's how I would go with the Q105 option. Better potential there.


Everybody is a programmer at heart and it is fun to
> speculate. Here is my scenario and two cents. Return
> 104.7's identity to Q105. Cash in on the heritage of the
> station (i.e. WFLA) Play a large variety including some
> current music. Make it a full service type of station. It
> can remain an "oldies" station without calling it an oldies
> station. YUU would be the likely candidate to become Jack
> (or whatever). Speaking of YUU, why not drop the word
> "country"? When you become "country" or "rock" or whatever
> genre tag you put on your station, you alienate a certain
> number of people who have a perception of the genre.
>

 

[LouPickney]

> So don't be surprised if we see 104.7 Jack-FM in the next
> few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong, but if Infinity didn't
> think twice about ditching over 30 years of heritage and
> branding of WCBS-FM, who's to say they wouldn't do the same
> thing to WRBQ.

Infinity putting JACK-FM on in New York and Chicago wasn't surprising. What was surprising was the choice of stations that were blown up. WNEW stays; WCBS-FM goes. WCKG stays (even with Stern leaving at the end of the year); WJMK goes.

Tampa is a market that's NOT suited for a Variety Hits station at the moment. Respected consultant Guy Zapoleon wrote an article about the VH format and how other formats in a market could limit its success. Of the six he listed, Tampa has four (Classic Hits, 80s, Hot AC, Oldies station that has evolved into playing a great deal of 70s music), and Zapoleon said that two or more could have an adverse effect.

But it does seem that Infinity is looking to get out of the Oldies business, so who knows what might happen. But with WRBQ's move toward being a Classic Hits station itself, perhaps it can be saved from the chopping block. We shall see.<P ID="signature">______________
Lou Pickney
Tampa, FL
RadioHotTalk.com & VarietyHits.com</P>

 

[Jay_F]

> Today Infinity flipped two HUGE oldies stations to Jack-FM:
> WCBS-FM in New York and WJMK in Chicago. Neither were doing
> poorly, in fact CBS-FM was Infinity's highest rated FM in
> New York (and it made $34.1 million last year). Now it's
> jockless Jack-FM. Evidently there are no "sacred cows" when
> it comes to Infinity's oldies stations. I'm beginning to
> think maybe we'll be seeing it happen at WRBQ. Personally I
> think it's a bonehead decision to flip stations with such
> heritage, something like 33 years for CBS-FM (as oldies) and
> of course almost 32 years for WRBQ, when they are still very
> successful.
>
> So don't be surprised if we see 104.7 Jack-FM in the next
> few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong, but if Infinity didn't
> think twice about ditching over 30 years of heritage and
> branding of WCBS-FM, who's to say they wouldn't do the same
> thing to WRBQ.
>



I'll go ahead and guess YES WRBQ will flip to Jack. Tampa is one of the largest markets without a Variety Hits station. Infinity (and every other company) is dumping oldies stations. Infinity is totally sold on the Jack concept.

I will also guess that if does happen, Jack will not do well in Tampa because the market is already oversaturated with the type of music Jack plays. The irony is that Jack's 25-54 and even 25-44 numbers could be lower than they are today as an oldies station. The pie would be split so many ways that nobody would get a big slice, including Jack.

 

[Oldiesgal]

> I believe the VP of Programing for Infinity is the same guy
> who was VP of programing for AM/FM in the late 90's. He did
> the same thing then. He went around the country blowing up
> VERY sucessful and VERY PROFITABLE Oldies stations for the
> "Jammin Oldies" format he claimed to have invented. He said
> everyone listening to Oldies was dieing. Every single one of
> those stations went down the toilet. He cost AM/FM
> $Millions. He finally decided "to spend more time with his
> family" in other words, he was "allowed to resign".

My problem with "Jack" is not the music, but another station going jockless.
>Another music machine. What WRBQ has going for it is live people. I think WCBS firing Cousin Brucie is really cold, but I guess its a cold business. If WRBQ goes JACK, will the entire airstaff be out? Even Mason?

 

[PassDutch]

> I'll go ahead and guess YES WRBQ will flip to Jack. Tampa is
> one of the largest markets without a Variety Hits station.
> Infinity (and every other company) is dumping oldies
> stations. Infinity is totally sold on the Jack concept.
>

I'd say 101.5, because Florida's already got an adult hits station in Orlando on 98.9, that is WMMO, one of the original adult hits stations.

 

[Jay_F]

> > I'll go ahead and guess YES WRBQ will flip to Jack. Tampa
> is
> > one of the largest markets without a Variety Hits station.
>
> > Infinity (and every other company) is dumping oldies
> > stations. Infinity is totally sold on the Jack concept.
> >
>
> I'd say 101.5, because Florida's already got an adult hits
> station in Orlando on 98.9, that is WMMO, one of the
> original adult hits stations.
>


Orlando and Tampa are two seperate markets. Besides, WMMO is more like a male AC. It's a well programmed station, but doesn't play the variety a Jack station does. Just compare sample hours of WMMO to any Jack station and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Irishfl]

If Cox's was smart

They would jump on with the jack format before Infinity has a chance with 101.5 the point.

They already have almost everything in place. All they need to do is cut back a little on the 80's music, add hits from the 70's 90's and/or today (some jacks are more retro, while other include music of today).

Since jack formats are mostly jockless, they can get rid of the 2 they have.

Possible names for it could be Peter-FM 101.5 (St.Pete) Buc-FM (the bucs) any other suggestions?

1 problem however with the point going jack is, with all the jacks I have heard they frequently update their liners (like once a week), so it sounds less of a juke box. As we all know, this isn't something Cox is good at (Do they still call it "the new" 101.5???) Anyway I now live outside Philly, and we have Ben-FM. It's jockless, and plays alot of the music I use to listen to on the point. However 1 reason i find it better is because they always update the liners, while when I was in Tampa I was sick of the point liners.

Anyway back to the subject, I again say if cox was smart. While a jack format might not be too succesful for Infinity, it would take enough away from the point, that Cox would have to do something with it.

 

[RMarino]

Re: If Cox's was smart

> Possible names for it could be Peter-FM 101.5 (St.Pete)

Peter-FM? I think the "St. Pete" connection would go over everyone's heads and instead "Peter" will be forever associated with an entirely different image. Might as well call it Dick-FM.

Hehe.

Anyway, Cox already threw away a great local identifier they had with "The Bay"

 

[jefflaurence]

Re: Oldies Q105 must die.

Ya know..they could put WLCY back on the air on AM..but why? People are no longer conditioned to hearing music on AM. IBOC won't fix it either.

I thought of the late Scott Robbins the other day when I got the news of CBS-FM's demise..along with Scott's friend Cousin Brucie, Bob Shannnon was an freind of mine (under the name Don Bombard) in Syracuse. The fact is that people don't seem to want that kind of radio any longer. And the few of us that have the blind love of the business to keep doing it, are being laughed out of most markets as washed-up, has-beens, never-weres and dinausaurs. Sad indeed. Scott would have been devistated by this turn of events.

An iPod is a hand held radio station. You can program your own station with ALL of the songs you want..some will even hold over 2000 songs. And if some new ones come out, you can delete some you are tired of, and be your own PD. No jocks? Big deal! Today's voice tracked "jocks" are not doing their stations any favors.

There are no talent pools to allow young broadcasters to learn the fine art of ad-libbing, or thinking on thier feet..or for that matter show business. Radio is no longer show business I guess. Oldies music is being poo-poo'ed as weak, and tired. Maybe true, but if so why are so damn many national TV spots using oldies hits as part of thier campaigns?

As far as listeners are concerned..America is becoming a grey-haired baby boomer country with many of us reaching our financial stride right about now. Who better to sell to? I just bought a brand new sports car. And I specifically went to a dealership that still advertied on local radio..and told them so. I had the money, and they treated me like a player, not a crumbling fool.

I think "they" turned the oldies off too soon..and with proper thought they can be brought back. But re-tooling Q105 or WLCY would be a mistake. there will always be a few of us with memory left that will know it's just not the same product.

Even as a weapon against the dreaded iPod.

Jeesh I sound like I should be rocking on a porch somewhere in my robe. I think I'll fire up the roadster, and run to the DQ for a cone.

 

[sbe]

Re: Oldies Q105 must die.

I wonder if anyone thought that people got tired of the same old 300 song oldies playlist. You can only play Hey Jude so many times. Even standards havent been kicked to the curb quite as fast as oldies have been. Oldies can still be a player on underperforming AM's. or is there more money in Brokering those stations? I'm sure glad I put my entire 6000 song oldies collection on hard drive. Now I'm my own music director. I miss Scott, he was a champ. I can see him now at the St. Pete colliseum with that Marlboro hanging from his lips, welcoming everyone there to those many sockhops. So is the next big oldies station to tumble going to be super power WOMC in Detroit????



> Ya know..they could put WLCY back on the air on AM..but why?
> People are no longer conditioned to hearing music on AM.
> IBOC won't fix it either.
>
> I thought of the late Scott Robbins the other day when I got
> the news of CBS-FM's demise..along with Scott's friend
> Cousin Brucie, Bob Shannnon was an freind of mine (under the
> name Don Bombard) in Syracuse. The fact is that people
> don't seem to want that kind of radio any longer. And the
> few of us that have the blind love of the business to keep
> doing it, are being laughed out of most markets as
> washed-up, has-beens, never-weres and dinausaurs. Sad
> indeed. Scott would have been devistated by this turn of
> events.
>
> An iPod is a hand held radio station. You can program your
> own station with ALL of the songs you want..some will even
> hold over 2000 songs. And if some new ones come out, you
> can delete some you are tired of, and be your own PD. No
> jocks? Big deal! Today's voice tracked "jocks" are not
> doing their stations any favors.
>
> There are no talent pools to allow young broadcasters to
> learn the fine art of ad-libbing, or thinking on thier
> feet..or for that matter show business. Radio is no longer
> show business I guess. Oldies music is being poo-poo'ed as
> weak, and tired. Maybe true, but if so why are so damn many
> national TV spots using oldies hits as part of thier
> campaigns?
>
> As far as listeners are concerned..America is becoming a
> grey-haired baby boomer country with many of us reaching our
> financial stride right about now. Who better to sell to? I
> just bought a brand new sports car. And I specifically went
> to a dealership that still advertied on local radio..and
> told them so. I had the money, and they treated me like a
> player, not a crumbling fool.
>
> I think "they" turned the oldies off too soon..and with
> proper thought they can be brought back. But re-tooling
> Q105 or WLCY would be a mistake. there will always be a few
> of us with memory left that will know it's just not the same
> product.
>
> Even as a weapon against the dreaded iPod.
>
> Jeesh I sound like I should be rocking on a porch somewhere
> in my robe. I think I'll fire up the roadster, and run to
> the DQ for a cone.
>