Infinity feels the heat

[WizardofProd]

Hollander appeared on "power lunch" on CNBC this afternoon for an interview. Much of the discussion centered on why CBS fm was flipped from oldies to jack. My brother who is an investment bankingbtype and lives glued to cnbc taped it and sent me a copy at work. The caption underneath read "moldy oldies"?. While the viacom stock split should have been top of mind much of the interview centered around questions about why Hollander flipped CBS rather than xrk, or wnew. His answer was that if WNEW hhad flipped the station would have canibalized CBs. In parting the host asked Hollander "is there anything you would like to say to the oldies listeners in NYC"? Hollander reminded the audience that "we love oldies" and that they could listen to their music streaming online.

Quuestion: How many of those listeners would actually take the time to stream online? i think not many. That is more of an 12-24 and 18-34 activity.

Hollander also mentioned that infinity is working "feverishly" to replace Stern. CNBC.com may have a transcript.

 

[OldiesCat]

CBS-FM online

While I totally agree it sucks CBS-FM is gone, your statement about online listening is about 5 years behind reality.

It is true you can't really take it with you, but the notion that only people under 35 listen to music online is way off.

> Quuestion: How many of those listeners would actually take
> the time to stream online? i think not many. That is more of
> an 12-24 and 18-34 activity.
>
> Hollander also mentioned that infinity is working
> "feverishly" to replace Stern. CNBC.com may have a
> transcript.
>

 

[radiolover78]

Re: CBS-FM online

> While I totally agree it sucks CBS-FM is gone, your
> statement about online listening is about 5 years behind
> reality.
>
> It is true you can't really take it with you, but the notion
> that only people under 35 listen to music online is way off.

True, but the thing is, not as many people will listen and plus, some people's computers can't stream their audio, such as me.

> > Quuestion: How many of those listeners would actually take
>
> > the time to stream online? i think not many. That is more
> of
> > an 12-24 and 18-34 activity.
> >
> > Hollander also mentioned that infinity is working
> > "feverishly" to replace Stern. CNBC.com may have a
> > transcript.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

 

[radiolover78]

> Hollander appeared on "power lunch" on CNBC this afternoon
> for an interview. Much of the discussion centered on why CBS
> fm was flipped from oldies to jack. My brother who is an
> investment bankingbtype and lives glued to cnbc taped it and
> sent me a copy at work. The caption underneath read "moldy
> oldies"?. While the viacom stock split should have been
> top of mind much of the interview centered around questions
> about why Hollander flipped CBS rather than xrk, or wnew.
> His answer was that if WNEW hhad flipped the station would
> have canibalized CBs. In parting the host asked Hollander
> "is there anything you would like to say to the oldies
> listeners in NYC"? Hollander reminded the audience that "we
> love oldies" and that they could listen to their music
> streaming online.
>
> Quuestion: How many of those listeners would actually take
> the time to stream online? i think not many. That is more of
> an 12-24 and 18-34 activity.
>
> Hollander also mentioned that infinity is working
> "feverishly" to replace Stern. CNBC.com may have a
> transcript.
>

There really isn't much of a good defense Infinity can use for switching WCBS FM. They may say something that sounds like a good defense, but they will be fired at back. AN example is "new york deserved a station like Jack". A response may be, "no, we don't need to have Jack" or "then why blow up CBS FM?".
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

 

[RickRose]

Re: CBS-FM online

>> True, but the thing is, not as many people will listen and
> plus, some people's computers can't stream their audio, such
> as me.
>
>
I feel sorry that in 2005 you have a computer that won't stream audio, I pray that you get a modern computer that will allow for that

 

[WizardofProd]

Re: CBS-FM online

> While I totally agree it sucks CBS-FM is gone, your
> statement about online listening is about 5 years behind
> reality.
>
> It is true you can't really take it with you, but the notion
> that only people under 35 listen to music online is way off.
>
>
> > Quuestion: How many of those listeners would actually take
>
> > the time to stream online? i think not many. That is more
> of
> > an 12-24 and 18-34 activity.
> >
> > Hollander also mentioned that infinity is working
> > "feverishly" to replace Stern. CNBC.com may have a
> > transcript.
> >
> I dont think so at all I think online listening is something that is not as common with tthe CBs demo 25-54's as it is with the 12-24's and the 18-34's, arguing that point denotes a basic lack of understanding of technology and who uses it. Then again your name is "Oldiescat" which means that you either work in an oldies format or you're a huge fan of oldies. Either way you are not really objective about who the audience is. everyone wants to think their audience is a lot hipper or relevent than they are in actuality. What I said stands, of the people who listened to that sttation a very small minority would even know how to stream it online let alone would have the time and desire.

 

[Slinky]

Re: CBS-FM online

> While I totally agree it sucks CBS-FM is gone, your
> statement about online listening is about 5 years behind
> reality.
>
> It is true you can't really take it with you, but the notion
> that only people under 35 listen to music online is way off.

Give it another 5 years and you WILL be able to take it with you. There was an article just yesterday about Sirius readying a deal to stream music via Sprint PCS's cell network. Internet listening certainly will be a force in the future, and already, 25+ demos are taking to it more than younger ones. The college crowd prefers filesharing and iTunes.

 

[OldiesCat]

portable radio via cell

actually, it won't take THAT long to take your music via cell phone.
I'm hearing early 2006.

But- just satellite, it'll cost you.

>
> Give it another 5 years and you WILL be able to take it with
> you. There was an article just yesterday about Sirius
> readying a deal to stream music via Sprint PCS's cell
> network. Internet listening certainly will be a force in
> the future, and already, 25+ demos are taking to it more
> than younger ones. The college crowd prefers filesharing
> and iTunes.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

Re: CBS-FM online

that cat needs to get a high-speed connection.
> >
> >
> I feel sorry that in 2005 you have a computer that won't
> stream audio, I pray that you get a modern computer that
> will allow for that
>

 

[am-fm]

Some things about the online stream:

*Usage of the word oldies - in 2003, CBS-FM couldnt get rid of that word fast enough, now they use it like they never evolved. Somewhat ironic that a term they were rejecting they now embrace.

*Music - mainly 60's and 70's mix, but more like the CBS-FM of old that had variety to it. The hour I listened, I didnt hear a single pre Beatles sounding tune, which pissed me off.

*Imaging - mix of jingles from SuperHits and the JAM packages post Do It Again. The old VO guy was brought back, which I liked.

The stream doesnt scream CBS-FM: even though the jocks are gone, the music mix doesnt seem just right. I remeber allot more Phil Spector/Dusty Springfield sounding 60's tunes on CBS-FM.

Ah well - I still think my stream is a better representation of what CBS-FM was at its zenith (playlist wise atleast).
<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.115.5:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>

 

[Slinky]

Re: portable radio via cell

> actually, it won't take THAT long to take your music via
> cell phone.
> I'm hearing early 2006.

Right, 5 years is what I'm predicting for "cell radio" to have mainstream appeal on the order of what internet and satellite have today. The tech is there now. It's just expensive and in limited markets.

 

[radiolover78]

Re: CBS-FM online

> that cat needs to get a high-speed connection.
> > >
> > >
> > I feel sorry that in 2005 you have a computer that won't
> > stream audio, I pray that you get a modern computer that
> > will allow for that
> >
>

The computer I have is a Dell from 2004 with DSL service. Maybe I am doing something wrong? I can listen to CC stations online.<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

 

[Boondocker]

Re: CBS-FM online

> > While I totally agree it sucks CBS-FM is gone, your
> > statement about online listening is about 5 years behind
> > reality.
> >
> > It is true you can't really take it with you, but the
> notion
> > that only people under 35 listen to music online is way
> off.
> >
> >
> > > Quuestion: How many of those listeners would actually
> take
> >
> > > the time to stream online? i think not many. That is
> more
> > of
> > > an 12-24 and 18-34 activity.
> > >
> > > Hollander also mentioned that infinity is working
> > > "feverishly" to replace Stern. CNBC.com may have a
> > > transcript.
> > >
> > I dont think so at all I think online listening is
> something that is not as common with tthe CBs demo 25-54's
> as it is with the 12-24's and the 18-34's, arguing that
> point denotes a basic lack of understanding of technology
> and who uses it. Then again your name is "Oldiescat" which
> means that you either work in an oldies format or you're a
> huge fan of oldies. Either way you are not really objective
> about who the audience is. everyone wants to think their
> audience is a lot hipper or relevent than they are in
> actuality. What I said stands, of the people who listened
> to that sttation a very small minority would even know how
> to stream it online let alone would have the time and
> desire.
>
I'm 53 and prefer to have a full-service, personality-driven, LOCAL radio station instead of a soulless jukebox that would still be playing for weeks after an apocalypse. But if the Internet or Sirius becomes the only place I can hear my music and my favorite personalities, that's where I'll reluctantly go.

Oh, and by the way, I'll take my disposable income with me -- a disposable income that's much greater than that of the 18-35s.

I believe the underlying reason for the Infinity move -- one that they'd never in a million years admit -- is that twentysomething ad sales and promotions people just can't relate to the Beatles and the Platters and the Supremes -- any more than we boomers could relate to our parents' Lawrence Welk and Glenn Miller. And you can't -- and don't want to -- sell what you don't understand.

 

[OldiesCat]

radio via cell

very true.

But, I gotta tell you- as "techy" as I am I have a hard time seeing myself listening to radio on my cell phone.

>
> Right, 5 years is what I'm predicting for "cell radio" to
> have mainstream appeal on the order of what internet and
> satellite have today. The tech is there now. It's just
> expensive and in limited markets.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

selling Oldies

I think you are right on this one (and I don't think it's just Infinity- radio sellers these days are under such intense pressure to "make their number" every month few will put the time and effort into it).
>
> I believe the underlying reason for the Infinity move -- one
> that they'd never in a million years admit -- is that
> twentysomething ad sales and promotions people just can't
> relate to the Beatles and the Platters and the Supremes --
> any more than we boomers could relate to our parents'
> Lawrence Welk and Glenn Miller. And you can't -- and don't
> want to -- sell what you don't understand.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

online

you should have your connection checked out by your provider. The computer itself is less important than your connection speed (though robust RAM does help).

>
> The computer I have is a Dell from 2004 with DSL service.
> Maybe I am doing something wrong? I can listen to CC
> stations online.
>

 

[WizardofProd]

Selling oldies, the reality.

> I think you are right on this one (and I don't think it's
> just Infinity- radio sellers these days are under such
> intense pressure to "make their number" every month few will
> put the time and effort into it).
> >
> > I believe the underlying reason for the Infinity move --
> one
> > that they'd never in a million years admit -- is that
> > twentysomething ad sales and promotions people just can't
> > relate to the Beatles and the Platters and the Supremes --
>
> > any more than we boomers could relate to our parents'
> > Lawrence Welk and Glenn Miller. And you can't -- and don't
>
> > want to -- sell what you don't understand.
> >
>
That's nonsense. Trust this if Infinity thought that they could "make the number" by programming oldies that station never would have been touched. If most radio companies thought that they would do better sales wise with a format of all Hitler speeches you would be hearing the all new sieg heil 101. To blame the age of the sales staff and saying they dont understand the Beatles or the platters, that is bunk you're clutching at straws.. The reality is that the station just was not performing ratings or revenue wise, end of story. Most sales people at that station had been there for years and were way into their 30's and or 40's. There were not a lot of young 20 somethings trying to sell that station and if you think that Infinity would flip a format to something that the sales people enjoyed listening to a little more, well that is pretty naive. Most sales people do not even listen to the station they sell anyone who has ever dealt with sales can tell you that, in that regard they are clueless. They're just in it for the $$$$$$$$ and that is fine.

 

[Andrew_MacKenzie]

Re: Selling oldies, the reality.

The reality is that the
> station just was not performing ratings or revenue wise, end
> of story.

I had heard CBS-FM billed something on the order of $30 Million in 2004 alone. How the heck can anybody say that station wasn't selling? They sure had a big enough spot load.

 

[RumourControl]

Re: Selling oldies, the reality.

> The reality is that the
> > station just was not performing ratings or revenue wise,
> end
> > of story.
>
> I had heard CBS-FM billed something on the order of $30
> Million in 2004 alone. How the heck can anybody say that
> station wasn't selling? They sure had a big enough spot
> load.
>
To answer your question:

It's common sense Obviously they were not selling ENOUGH by company standards. IF they were there is no way that they would never have touched it. That is just common sense. If they were making the money that infinity brass thought they could or should be making you would still be hearing "sea Cruise" and other favorites of that era as we speak. Again opinions iare not facts and that company clearly is all about the numbers these dayys, more so than ever before..

 

[Mouth1390]

Re: Selling oldies, the reality.

> The reality is that the
> > station just was not performing ratings or revenue wise,
> end
> > of story.
>
> I had heard CBS-FM billed something on the order of $30
> Million in 2004 alone. How the heck can anybody say that
> station wasn't selling? They sure had a big enough spot
> load.
>
They may have done $ 34 million last year but it is my understanding from David Eduardo that is down from $ 41 million about five years ago. So you have ratings that are on the decline and falling sales. . .something's gotta give. And to be honest, I tried listening to the new format. . .but I just couldn't. Perhaps the lesson here is that Oldies, like Adult/Standards, will thrive in smaller markets where the Account Executive gets to meet directly with the business owner rather than a buyer at an agency. In that situation, the Account Executive actually gets to make a presentation, sell the format and explain how much disposable income his listeners have rather than just breaking out a ratings book.