Inmates Running The Asylum @ K-Rock

[DToTheJ]

Major changes over the last week - not sure if they're affected by the ousting of Tracy Cloherty, or the advent of WRXP, but the changes show:

They're asking listeners to submit their own playlists. (Didn't they try this back when they were "Free-FM"? Can you say "Free-cast"?)

The 6 o'clock "Fresh Meat" segment is gone.

And now more than ever, more of that "old school rock" is being played quite frequently.

All they need to do now is bring back the "Great Rock. Period." slogan.

This is clearly a station that, after taking two steps forward, is taking a huge leap back.

 

[Neanderpaul]

Who says it's a step back? You do.

What if...and stop me if I'm nuts here...What if New music is in such a bad state that 25-54s really want to hear "lounge act" next to Van Halen?

It's different than the crap everyone else is doing.

Step off the hair-trigger for a week, and let it breathe...see what happens

 

[neo11]

Here's a thought....how about if the old music those 25-54's want to hear is *not* classic rock from the 70's and 80's hair bands? It doesn't seem like too many listeners have flocked to the station at any of its previous attempts, like "Great Rock Period."

 

[Neanderpaul]

The market will dictate where the focus lies. Not the other way around.

This is the problem with radio people. We overthink everything.

In a city of 15 million people, it would stand to reason that the most familiar, time-tested songs are going to be not only familiar, but most appealing to the masses. Which is what we do. You want to be "too cool for the room?" That's fine. Go rent "High Fidelity" and make lists. Radio is no longer in the music education business. It's not what we do anymore. The content that grabs people is truly non-musical.

They can get the songs anywhere. They cannot get what comes between the songs anywhere else.

Someday we'll figure this out.

The music is the thing that keeps their attention between the entertainment, and the commercials.

Arrogant? Probably. But people get their new music fix everywhere but radio. When you're attempting to gather the biggest audience, you gotta give 'em what they want.

Check national soundscan. The best-selling "rock" CD, not in its first week of release is friggin' Daughtry. The masses love the drek. Then...the Eagles & Bullet For My Valentine (who sold a whopping 23,400 nationwide this week)....then Nickelback. Linkin Park, Buckcherry.

You gotta dig deep to find "new rock" that the masses are accepting of. nothing in the top 50 nationally. Maroon 5? That's about it.

Meanwhile The Eagles and Zeppelin continue to sell. New rock isn't mass-appeal. Radio is a mass-appeal medium.

See how this works?

I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy. But it is what it is. And the sooner we accept it, and do the other things to enhance the listening experience for them, the better we'll be.

Again...

They can get the songs anywhere. They cannot get what comes between the songs anywhere else.

 

[p_herring]

Just when we were so close to having a current-based rock station in NYC this has to happen. Ugh...

 

[hotpatrick2004]

But sometimes what comes between the songs is god awful as well!!!I agree no more dinasoar rock this is new york not alabama!!!Guess when i am in town to visit my bro in long branch new jersey this is one station that i will not listen to period!!! Very sad G rock all the way baby!!!

 

[DToTheJ]

Who says it's a step back? You do.

My point is, this is not the first time 92.3 has rehashed an idea. They're already reintroducing old concepts in a shiny new package. The whole "you control the station for one hour, submit your playlist" is eerily reminiscent of their "Freecasts" they used to do on weekends as Free-FM. And as mentioned, their music mix is roughly similar to what it used to be pre-Free-FM, in the final months of Stern's terrestrial radio contract.

At this rate, we'll probably hear Crazy Cabbie hosting afternoons on 92.3 in the near future!

 

[itsnotthathard]

The market will dictate where the focus lies. Not the other way around.

This is the problem with radio people. We overthink everything.

In a city of 15 million people, it would stand to reason that the most familiar, time-tested songs are going to be not only familiar, but most appealing to the masses. Which is what we do. You want to be "too cool for the room?" That's fine. Go rent "High Fidelity" and make lists. Radio is no longer in the music education business. It's not what we do anymore. The content that grabs people is truly non-musical.

They can get the songs anywhere. They cannot get what comes between the songs anywhere else.

Someday we'll figure this out.

The music is the thing that keeps their attention between the entertainment, and the commercials.

Arrogant? Probably. But people get their new music fix everywhere but radio. When you're attempting to gather the biggest audience, you gotta give 'em what they want.

Check national soundscan. The best-selling "rock" CD, not in its first week of release is friggin' Daughtry. The masses love the drek. Then...the Eagles & Bullet For My Valentine (who sold a whopping 23,400 nationwide this week)....then Nickelback. Linkin Park, Buckcherry.

You gotta dig deep to find "new rock" that the masses are accepting of. nothing in the top 50 nationally. Maroon 5? That's about it.

Meanwhile The Eagles and Zeppelin continue to sell. New rock isn't mass-appeal. Radio is a mass-appeal medium.

See how this works?

I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy. But it is what it is. And the sooner we accept it, and do the other things to enhance the listening experience for them, the better we'll be.

Again...

They can get the songs anywhere. They cannot get what comes between the songs anywhere else.

Dig deep to find new rock? Are you kidding me. You obviously don't have a tv, and seen the latest ads for huge corporations playing new rock artists. Have you ever logged onto Myspace and seen the millions of plays and hits these latest rock, and indie artists have?

The only reason the alternative stations have died is because of there lack of attention towards the new alternative bands. These PD's are dinosaurs and never let go of the Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam etc. those bands are classic rock now...Radio could still be educational...look at top 40 and hot ac, it educated people on a daily basis about new music. Why doesn't alternative? Because the archaic PD's lost track of the format.

When the alternative format first started, did they play Zeppelin?

 

[Neanderpaul]

Dig deep to find new rock? Are you kidding me. You obviously don't have a tv, and seen the latest ads for huge corporations playing new rock artists. Have you ever logged onto Myspace and seen the millions of plays and hits these latest rock, and indie artists have?

Yes. I have. And it's not translating into mass sales. Which is the final arbiter. People are not buying new rock music. It speaks volumes when GM, in an attempt to find a hip soundtrack song for their Cadillac campaign, has to reach back to use Hum's "Stars" to sound hip. When did that song come out?

13 years ago.

You're actually illustrating my point. People no longer use radio as the epicenter for discovering new music. It's not right. But it is.

The only reason the alternative stations have died is because of there lack of attention towards the new alternative bands.

No. Alternative radio is (in your estimation) dying because it doesn't appeal to the money demo. That's it. There's no money in it. The kid that digs Silversun Pickups has no income to spend on advertisers' products.

Were Alternative radio to be programmed with a proper balance of "classic alternative" (Billy Bragg, Psychedelic Furs, Camper Van Beethoven, Smiths) and newer alternative (Shins,Paramore, Silversun Pickups, Bravery) it might appeal to someone over 30, who has some money to spend. Those PDs who you claim "never let go of Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam etc." Didn't because the fans of those bands are now IN the money demo.

"those bands are classic rock now"

And you, and you're not alone, have this notion of having to label everything. Rock is Rock is Rock.

The great stations were always able to balance the library with current product. When we over-fragmented the formats, (which was done not because the audience demanded it, but because record company promotional budgets were allocated to format-specific outlets, and more was being spent to break Alt bands in the 90s than Mainstream. Truth hurts)

The audience never wanted one style formats until we served it to them. The great stations played both the Allman Brothers & The Smiths until we as an industry screwed it up in pursuit of the record company dollars.

...Radio could still be educational...look at top 40 and hot ac, it educated people on a daily basis about new music. Why doesn't alternative? Because the archaic PD's lost track of the format.

Top 40 doesn't educate anybody about anything. They play what's popular. End of discussion.

You're obviously unhappy with the state of Alternative radio. And I'm sure it's well-founded frustration. But that's not what's happening with K-Rock.

What's happening is right now, the audience is voicing their opinion about what they want to hear.

And we are seeing a rebirth of traditional AOR radio.

That's a good thing. Because the quality of new product is not such that it can sustain an entire format anymore. The kids dig Iron Maiden & Avenged Sevenfold. They like Cream & Wolfmother. They dig Siouxsie & Gnarls Barkley.

And that means we, as radio personalities had now better be more well-rounded overall to provide everything they want to know about all of them if we want to make sure we have that non-musical entertainment base covered.

When the alternative format first started, did they play Zeppelin?

Yes they did. Except it was called Progressive Rock Radio back then.

 

[itsnotthathard]

I agree and respect a lot of what you are saying. I want to throw that out there first because I see a lot of these conversations turn into pissing matches instead of discussions. It is just is horrible to see so many alternative stations die off left and right, when you have so many people in the 18 to 34 demo who don't want to hear Nirvana and Pearl Jam, played next to the latest from Paramore, Muse, Jimmy Eat World, etc... That is where the format lost its touch on music. Just because it is new doesn't mean that people in there 30's do not want to hear it.

We have a daily show that runs Monday-Saturday that plays nothing before the year 2000, and it plays the latest in Alternative, and Indie...it is our highest rated 18-34 show on the station. This might just be a local thing, but I doubt it.

I may be wrong, but if a station went out on a limb and dropped the early 90's grunge and started focusing its playlist on the year 2000 and up it would sound refreshing and be what the format was originally all about.

Top 40 radio does educate people. A good percentage of people hear a song on Top 40 have no idea what the song is, and who sings it. They have no idea about the artist and where they came from. After a week of spinning it the person knows who it is, and if the jocks on said Top 40 station are informative they will know about the brand new artist.

You are very intelligent Paul, sorry if I came of kind off harsh. I completely see what you are saying, this is just an idea that I am really passionate about, and can hear it in my head. I gotta go, the latest track from Guns N' Roses is playing on the alternative station in town...I think it's called "Welcome to the Jungle"...this song is gonna stiff...its never gonna be big.

 

[Neanderpaul]

Appreciate the courtesy. I too would like to make sure this doesn't come off as argumentative. It's difficult to shape tone-of-voice in typeset.
I completely understand the frustration of those who're bummed about how Alt has evolved.

But, we always tend to forget that we're in a multi-billion dollar business. And it's about making money. Everything outside that one truth is simply window dressing.

This isn't art. It's commerce. And whatever sells, and provides the shareholders the greatest return on their investment is going to dictate just about every decision. And right now, we're hearing a pretty heavy dose of heritage rock on a station that has tried to market itself as an Alternative station. It has heritage as such, and yet the customer (and obvious target for advertisers) is voicing their opinion that Alternative isn't really what they want. They're OK with hearing Van Halen and deep cuts from Nirvana, and RHCP (ugh)

Not only are they OK...based upon the past few hours of listening, they actually prefer it. Right, or wrong. The "customer" is always right.

This is a living, breathing, perceptual. Taking place in real-time. In the largest media market in the world. It's actually fun to listen to from afar. If this is "what people want" out of their Rock station (and BTW K-Rock is not imaging as an Alternative station right now at all. It appears to be "Your Rock" which means what?) in NYC....imagine the trickle down. With PPM, we're going to find out all too soon what songs work, and what jocks cause tuneouts. This is a good/bad time. It will answer some questions, and cause a lot of unrest across the board. But...at least it's movement. Which is what we've been lacking for a while, and what we've all wanted to happen right? "Radio's dying...do something"

Sound familiar?

Here it comes. Hope it's what you hoped it would be. But, if it's not, you still have to accept the results. Becuase whatever the audience wants...is what they're going to get.

As far as 18-34s...the focus on them should be what are they going to want when they're 32-49.

That's when the money flows like rain.

 

[itsnotthathard]

Don't you think 18-34's spend money though? They get there paychecks and spend it on there apartment, tv's, the latest upgrade to there vehicle, going out to eat all the time. I always read that 18-34's aren't that big of spenders, but I've thought they are some of the biggest.

 

[Neanderpaul]

I absolutely know they spend. But it's not about what we think. It's about the "tangible" data that's obtained via market studies.

Tune in to 92.3 right now. There's a market study being done. Assuming they're playing the actual listener setlists.

Which opens a whole new room full of questions.

Gotta go play radio now.

Be Well. Good talk Rust!

 

[RobRosen]

Any word on whether K-Rock is planning on renewing Opie and Anthony's contracts?

 

[adma]

This isn't art. It's commerce.

The "customer" is always right.

And remember: that's what it's about. Not simply mass audience, but mass *advertising* audience.

In an age where radio advertising--and moreover, the reputation thereof--is increasingly chintzy. And for younger audiences especially, it's as obtrusively intolerable as unsightly banner ads, popups, spam--it's no longer a simple matter of "crap music", but more like, "crap milieu".

So, you're left with what remains of said "customer", i.e. a ghetto of susceptably least-denominator Joe Dirt mulletheads and their like...

 

[Neanderpaul]

This isn't art. It's commerce.

The "customer" is always right.

And remember: that's what it's about. Not simply mass audience, but mass *advertising* audience.

In an age where radio advertising--and moreover, the reputation thereof--is increasingly chintzy. And for younger audiences especially, it's as obtrusively intolerable as unsightly banner ads, popups, spam--it's no longer a simple matter of "crap music", but more like, "crap milieu".

So, you're left with what remains of said "customer", i.e. a ghetto of susceptably least-denominator Joe Dirt mulletheads and their like...

All money is green.

'tis the lifeblood of society. Can't blame them for catering to the masses. That's just good business.

Whether you like it, or not.

 

[adma]

All money is green.

'tis the lifeblood of society. Can't blame them for catering to the masses. That's just good business.

Whether you like it, or not.

But remember Gresham's Law. When you regard all money as being simply "green" without a distinction between "good" and "bad", er...there's problems.

You can cater to some notion of the "masses", but you don't have to look self-defeatingly least-denominator sleazy while doing so. And anyone from Bill Paley to Steve Jobs has realized that fact...

 

[scooty430]

Interesting discussion. Don't live in NYC, but visit often and listen online sometimes.

The problem alternative radio is having right now is the same one it had in the late 80's: not enough good new music. For awhile, "modern rock" stations were relying on mostly old songs to get through some lean years. Hair metal, rap, and dance-pop, while perhaps exciting, didn't fit the format, and were polarizing. Then along came Nirvana etc., and there was a renaissance.

Today, we have the same issue. Here's an illustration: The LA KROQ just did a (very creative and fun) Top 10 weekend. Top 10 songs from such and such a year, Top 10 from various bands, and themed Top 10s (such as Top 10 Ska songs, Top 10 Annoying KROQ songs, Top 10 Stoner Songs, Top 10 Shortest Songs.) When they did the Top 10 from 2006, I was surprised at how bad it was. Only one decent song, IMO. (Raconteurs) Whereas up to 2004 there was some strong material. So I think we're in a slump.

The KROQ weekend also demonstrates what someone said earlier in this thread: "what comes between" is what matters. This weekend was a delight to listen to because of how the music was packaged and presented. It was really creative, and quite addictive. I kept wanting to find out what the next Top 10 would be. I'm smack dab in the middle of the "money" demo, and have tuned out KROQ for the last few boring years of Linkin Park and My Chemical Romance, but my ears were glued! Excellent radio.

 

[Brooklyndon]

The most exciting thing k-rock is doing right now is acknowledging that the years 1995-1998 actually happened. I think those three years were pretty golden for alternative. I would like to see them incorporate some singles from what's big in britain, but waht can you do? It sounds better than ever.

 

[cartman1964]

When they start playing the Arctic Monkeys, the Kaiser Chiefs, Vampire Weekend, then I'll start listening.