Interesting Oldies article in NY Daily News

[Jim_Hicks]

David Hinckley's radio column in today's (Monday) NY Daily News helps explain what is happening in the world of oldies radio.

It is based on the experience of WMTR, which GM switched from Standards to Oldies about a year before WPEN.

One key line in the story regards the demo it reaches. The flip basically did little for the station's demos. Standards attracted the 65+ crowd, "Real Oldies" the 60-65 crowd. Not much diffrence as far as the ad agencies are concerned.

When WPEN made the flip, many posters here were ticked that WPEN still had most of the same ads. WMTR has the same problem. Since the audience is basically the same age, you are still going to attract retirement homes, burial plots and the like. AM oldies is not an easy sell.

 

[OldNumber7]

> Since the audience is basically the same age, you
> are still going to attract retirement homes, burial plots
> and the like. AM oldies is not an easy sell.

Unfortunately, that's the result of rather uninspired thinking by both the agencies and the account execs. In 2006, the first baby-boomers turn 60 but these folks are far from being put out to pasture. They have boatloads of disposable income for travel, entertainment, eating out, second homes, big cars and, yes, boats. 60 is the new 40, and I can't understand why advertisers can't grasp that. The notion that the 60-plus crowd is thinking all the time about meds and dying is beyond me. I guess with all the senior discounts given to older customers, the commercial establishments figure their marginal cost isn't worth advertising to the 60-plus folks. That said, I know when I'm 60, or 55, or whatever, I won't want my favorite stations to constantly remind me of my mortality. it's better listening to no ads at all then being told where I can arrange my funeral -- Hmm. Could that be why upscale older folks like NPR?

 

[am-fm]

> That said, I know when I'm
> 60, or 55, or whatever, I won't want my favorite stations to
> constantly remind me of my mortality. it's better listening
> to no ads at all then being told where I can arrange my
> funeral -- Hmm. Could that be why upscale older folks like
> NPR?
>

My grandparents (the under 70 ones) arent like the blue haired people that seniors are made out to be. She still shops, my grandfather still works, and they both drive nice cars (Buick Rendevouzs & a Mazda 626).This myth that 54+ is like the Greatest Generation is ill-conceved and is not a good way to make money. Brand loyalty is not known among todays youth (me being the exception - Cadillac's & Pepsi all the way!), and it was the Baby Boomers that were the 1st to really be bombarded by advertising.

Boomers are not like their folks - just because they are 55+ doesnt mean they eat Sunday dinners and all goto Bingo on Tuesday nights....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.125.155:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>

 

[Jim_Hicks]

Well said. You and Old #7 (which I like on the rocks - not the poster - the bev!) know what the agency people have not picked up on yet. People are working into their mid-70's in many cases. They remain exposed to new products. Someone driving a Buick SUV is obviously open to new ideas, even if they still stick with Buick.

They travel, buy new audio equipment, cd's, dvd's, and all the consumer products most adults buy.

But its mostly the just out of school crowd that make the ad buying decisions. And they all too often dislike older people in general.

> > That said, I know when I'm
> > 60, or 55, or whatever, I won't want my favorite stations
> to
> > constantly remind me of my mortality. it's better
> listening
> > to no ads at all then being told where I can arrange my
> > funeral -- Hmm. Could that be why upscale older folks like
>
> > NPR?
> >
>
> My grandparents (the under 70 ones) arent like the blue
> haired people that seniors are made out to be. She still
> shops, my grandfather still works, and they both drive nice
> cars (Buick Rendevouzs & a Mazda 626).This myth that 54+ is
> like the Greatest Generation is ill-conceved and is not a
> good way to make money. Brand loyalty is not known among
> todays youth (me being the exception - Cadillac's & Pepsi
> all the way!), and it was the Baby Boomers that were the 1st
> to really be bombarded by advertising.
>
> Boomers are not like their folks - just because they are 55+
> doesnt mean they eat Sunday dinners and all goto Bingo on
> Tuesday nights....
>

 

[musicrrrr]

AM Oldies, 'PEN, misconceptions, ad agencies, old folks, and Frankie Lymon

You all make good points about advertising and old folks...and no one can dispute that the ad agencies "just don't get it."

But I think the bigger picture concerning WPEN was ratings. When they switched from standards to oldies the ratings dropped in half. Had the ratings remained in the upper 2.0 to lower 3.0 shares we'd probably still be digging Jim Nettleton's tight boardwork every afternoon.

But the general public, like the ad agencies, "just don't get it."

"Why should I listen to crappy AM when there is an FM Stereo version available?"

People in this town still perceive WOGL as an oldies station and a lot of "regular" folks don't differentiate between the "real oldies" WPEN played and the later stuff on WOGL. Unless you are a radio or oldies junkie, there isn't enough of a difference to notice. People are creatures of habit and the casual listener doesn't realize the two different and distinct generations of oldies music.

That having been said...one also has to consider that toward the end of WPEN...we were entertained with more WOGL selections than ever before. That was probably WPEN's last effort to SAVE it from it's ultimate demise.

Finally...lack of promotion and the weekend infomercials put the nails in the coffin. Instead of billing themselves as the "The greatest hits of the 50's and 60's" they should have stayed with the "real oldies" concept and ADVERTISED it! Remember, people still think they are getting the greatest hits of the 50's and 60's on WOGL.

Remember the old WPEN billboards? They used to name some of the recording STARS on the billboards. Had Oldies 950 tried a similar concept they may have had higher ratings.

I know if I were driving down 95 listening to WOGL playing The Spinners from 1969 for the 1,000,000,000th time and I saw a billboard with names such as Frankie Lymon, Bobby Darin, Sam Cooke, Fats Domino, The Ronettes, etc... I WOULD MAKE THE SWITCH. I think a lot of other people would have as well.

 

[mwebster]

Do we have to go through this AGAIN!

I dispute it. The ad agencies do get it.

They have all sorts of demographic data on the people who listen to any given radio station and the people who buy their products (and their competitors' products).

Ad agencies buy time on stations to reach people likely to buy their product - and who are the heaviest consumers of their product. Even if older people buy the same products, they are not the heavy users/core consumers. Agency media buyers work from facts - not impressions and anecdotes.

And people whose formats get flipped have been in denial about economic reality for 40 years or more. Ask your grandparents what their reaction was when WFIL stopped playing middle of the road, fired Wee Willie and others, and started playing rock.

It wouldn't matter if PEN had higher ratings with Oldies. They did have higher ratings with Standards. Either way, advertisers weren't buying - except for the infomercials.

 

[OldNumber7]

Re: Do we have to go through this AGAIN!

You make some valid points but some of them need to be deconstructed:

First, the older people of the next few years aren't the same as the older people of the last few years. They aren't the same in attitude, wealth, health or upbringing. There is an unrealized opportunity, and it's growing.

> They (the agencies) have all sorts of demographic data on the people who
> listen to any given radio station

As I said above, I think a big chunk of the upscale older listeners have already defected from commercial radio. So their listening and buying habits aren't part of the equation. It's not a coincidence that the car companies love to underwrite NPR programs that reach these people, but won't buy commercial music formats that supposedly (but poorly) target them. Commercial radio isn't giving this demo a real chance and that creates a Catch-22; the agencies have no avenues on commercial radio to reach them, even if they wanted to.

> Ad agencies buy time on stations to reach people likely to
> buy their product - and who are the heaviest consumers of
> their product. Even if older people buy the same products,
> they are not the heavy users/core consumers.

Yes, but there is a bang-for-the-buck opportunity. If NO ONE is going after the 55-plus crowd in a serious way, it's an audience that a station and its advertisers can call their own. A big piece of a small pie can be as good as a small piece of a big pie.

Lastly, no one can tell me that 54 isn't a completely ARB-itrary age for the end of one's useful consumer life.

 

[peppertree]

Re: AM Oldies, 'PEN, misconceptions, ad agencies, old folks, and Frankie Lymon

One WCBS-FM subway ad from the seventies said, "We play more Elvis." And a picture of fifities Elvis.

> I know if I were driving down 95 listening to WOGL playing
> The Spinners from 1969 for the 1,000,000,000th time and I
> saw a billboard with names such as Frankie Lymon, Bobby
> Darin, Sam Cooke, Fats Domino, The Ronettes, etc... I WOULD
> MAKE THE SWITCH. I think a lot of other people would have
> as well.
>
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