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interesting story in RADIOINSIGHT . . . 6/18/26

Somewhat related to this thread is today's story about new layoffs at iHeart:

I had a hard time not laughing when reading this press release. Was this written by AI? It's a real flowery way to basically state... We're getting rid of more people, with the future being all voicetracked and syndication.

I go out of my way to NOT listen to any iHeart station (except KFI). It really is radio at it's least creative, and a mind numbing level of boring.
 
Meanwhile in most major cities, iHeart's boring radio tends to be in the Top 5.
Those top 5 stations have less and less people listening to them as time goes by. Especially young people. Radio no longer offers what a lot of oeople want to listen to. There are so many better things to listen to, personalized music streaming without commercials, and podcasts.
 
Those top 5 stations have less and less people listening to them as time goes by. Especially young people. Radio no longer offers what a lot of oeople want to listen to. There are so many better things to listen to, personalized music streaming without commercials, and podcasts.

I agree 100%. Which is why iHeart explained in its press release:

While we will be creating new roles to support our future needs, we also recognize that some colleagues and existing positions will be impacted as part of these changes.

They would be foolish to continue to fully staff signals that are attracting less & less people. Hiring more local staff, expanding the playlists, or allowing more creative programming won't change the basic trend. So they're redirecting resources to areas where there's more of a future. I can attest that they are still hiring people, and I occasionally see people who were let go from one market getting hired in another. The give preference to former employees.

I recently returned to my old college radio station, and a few students asked me for advice. I told them: Don't get complacent. Keep learning new skills, because the business we see today will change. Also don't depend on radio for 100% of your income.
 
I agree 100%. Which is why iHeart explained in its press release:



They would be foolish to continue to fully staff signals that are attracting less & less people. Hiring more local staff, expanding the playlists, or allowing more creative programming won't change the basic trend. So they're redirecting resources to areas where there's more of a future. I can attest that they are still hiring people, and I occasionally see people who were let go from one market getting hired in another. The give preference to former employees.

I recently returned to my old college radio station, and a few students asked me for advice. I told them: Don't get complacent. Keep learning new skills, because the business we see today will change. Also don't depend on radio for 100% of your income.
I know you mentioned iHeart having stations not meeting their numbers. Maybe it's time to trim down the station roster, cut the dead weight and concentrate on only the top 20-50 markets. Isn't this where the money is still being made?
 
I know you mentioned iHeart having stations not meeting their numbers. Maybe it's time to trim down the station roster, cut the dead weight and concentrate on only the top 20-50 markets. Isn't this where the money is still being made?

My guess is they don't think they're there yet. This didn't just happen. They've been doing this for 20 years. They found a way to repurpose some dead AMs into money with BIN. They already have a bunch of no-staff AM talk stations. There are music stations that are all piped in. So they're making money by controlling expenses. But yes, at some point, they start turning in licenses the way Cumulus and Townsquare are.
 
I know you mentioned iHeart having stations not meeting their numbers. Maybe it's time to trim down the station roster, cut the dead weight and concentrate on only the top 20-50 markets. Isn't this where the money is still being made?

The problem is most of those smaller markets are still profitable from an operational standpoint. If something makes you $1, you usually keep it, especially at current multiples. Springfield, MO, which just saw its last local programming employee get cut, was one of the highest margin clusters in the company 20 years ago and was one of the few Sub-100 markets not put up for sale when the company went to private equity. It might not have margins like it once did, but that cluster is not a loser.

As another example, the iHeart cluster in Omaha billed roughly $15 million in 2024. That cluster doesn’t do what one of its stations in LA does, but it's a very profitable cluster in barely a Top-75 market. I don’t know what the margin of that cluster is, but I can almost guarantee it’s well above the industry average of about 4%. You don’t just walk away from that.

Cumulus is a similar situation. Dallas/Ft. Worth practically keeps the entire company in business, but, if you look at the annual “President's Cup,” it usually goes to a smaller market. The total revenue is lower, but those clusters have higher margins.
 
The other thing to remember is national advertisers don't sell to just big cities. They sell to the entire country. The reason radio has become less useful for national sales is it focuses on population areas. That's how radio has worked for 100 years. But the internet can reach everyone. So it's a better sales vehicle for national advertisers. If iHeart sells off all small markets, it's less useful for national advertisers.

So the goal is to create an audio marketing system that has the potential to reach the highest percentage of people in the US. They don't have to own all the stations. They can still get credit for the market if their syndicated programming is carried by a locally owned station. Or if people can be documented as streaming them on iHeartRadio. They have multiple ways to reach the most people. That's why they're trying to retain all of their owned stations.
 
I know you mentioned iHeart having stations not meeting their numbers. Maybe it's time to trim down the station roster, cut the dead weight and concentrate on only the top 20-50 markets.
They probably can't sell them for a decent price, and they can't afford to turn them in en masse.

To make an example, iHeart has a 5 station cluster in Bakersfield, CA. Connoisseur recently sold a 3 station cluster in Bakersfield for $1 (plus a 25% cut of any future profits for 5 years). Connoisseur's cluster included a couple of successful music stations and a dying AM. I think it is safe to assume the cluster was unprofitable under Alpha/Connoisseur given that sales contract, so there's a fair chance that $1 is all they ever see.

iHeart can't turn them in because all the licenses and other assets associated with stations are part of the collateral for the whole company. Taken as a whole, they are a significant part of the financing story, and without them iHeart is probably driven into bankruptcy again.

The problem is most of those smaller markets are still profitable from an operational standpoint. If something makes you $1, you usually keep it, especially at current multiples. Springfield, MO, which just saw its last local programming employee get cut,
That's another reason the smaller iHeart clusters would be hard to sell without the large markets. iHeart has spent 25 years cutting away at staffing, especially in the smaller markets. If you bought the iHeart cluster in Springfield, MO or Tupelo, MS or Davenport, IA, what are you really buying?

I'd guess a brand and a long-term tower lease with Vertical Bridge -- but no programming expertise, no respected local talent, and possibly no sales structure either, as iHeart has been eliminating local sales roles in certain markets.
 
The other thing to remember is national advertisers don't sell to just big cities. They sell to the entire country. The reason radio has become less useful for national sales is it focuses on population areas. That's how radio has worked for 100 years. But the internet can reach everyone. So it's a better sales vehicle for national advertisers. If iHeart sells off all small markets, it's less useful for national advertisers.

So the goal is to create an audio marketing system that has the potential to reach the highest percentage of people in the US. They don't have to own all the stations. They can still get credit for the market if their syndicated programming is carried by a locally owned station. Or if people can be documented as streaming them on iHeartRadio. They have multiple ways to reach the most people. That's why they're trying to retain all of their owned stations.
The below sentence is prima facially wrong:

But the internet can reach everyone. So it's a better sales vehicle for national advertisers.

No. The Internet can't reach everyone in the sense that an advertising agency can buy "the Internet" and be able to sell to everybody. As pointed out in another thread about the future of streaming, there are thousands of different streams of both radio broadcasters and Internet-only radio stations throughout both the U.S. and the rest of the world. If advertising agencies think they can negotiate with one (or a few) Internet streamers and that they will therefore get the national audience they sought with national radio buys, then they're only fooling themselves.

Yes. The Internet does offer an advantage over broadcast radio but it is not getting the entire Internet audience in one shot; in fact, it's the opposite. Because of the myriad of streams and formats available, advertising agencies and their clients can really target their ads to the most likely buyers of their products in ways that could never be done through radio--the technology just wasn't there. I know that @davideduardo likes to talk about national advertising agencies wanting to only negotiate with one or a few buyers to get everybody, but that is not, and will never be, the case with the Internet.
 
The below sentence is prima facially wrong:

But the internet can reach everyone. So it's a better sales vehicle for national advertisers.

No. The Internet can't reach everyone in the sense that an advertising agency can buy "the Internet" and be able to sell to everybody.

You'd think I'd learn to stay away from making unqualified statements. Yes you're right. The internet doesn't reach everyone because there are reception holes. Yes I know that and I get it. I have driven in areas where I have zero cell service. It's likely there's no cable there either.

Elon Musk just signed a big fat government contract where his SpaceX satellite will be able to provide high speed internet where it's not available now. So it's likely that in the next few years, the holes in the system will be filled. So they're working on it. In the meantime, the FCC just offered a bunch of construction permits for radio stations in mostly unpopulated areas. How many of them will get bids?

Yes. The Internet does offer an advantage over broadcast radio but it is not getting the entire Internet audience in one shot; in fact, it's the opposite. Because of the myriad of streams and formats available, advertising agencies and their clients can really target their ads to the most likely buyers of their products

I think iHeart is addressing that in the way they sell their own streaming service. Once again, this is why iHeart is shifting resources from broadcasting to its various digital businesses. That's another reason why they won't walk away from broadcasting completely. They will just combine the platforms into a larger sales platform that will make them more relevant than other broadcast-only companies.
 
I've noticed that so far the top 10 markets have not been affected yet by any RIF's. Everywhere below that seems to be the focus, with Denver and Phoenix being the largest. This could change, of course.
 
to be fair though, is there really anyone else to cut in the top 10 markets? At least in DFW, I can’t think of anyone else to cut except maybe the evening host on KEGL, but then again I could be wrong.
 
Ultimately it will be the likes of Seacrest, Woody and Bobby Bones on every iHeart station and no local talent at all. Don't know why they have to drag it out any longer as if whoever is left doesn't know the plan.
 
Ultimately it will be the likes of Seacrest, Woody and Bobby Bones on every iHeart station and no local talent at all. Don't know why they have to drag it out any longer as if whoever is left doesn't know the plan.

So it means that radio stations will return to they way they operated in the golden age, with network radio talent coast to coast.

The fact is that AFTRA will continue to require local hosts in markets where they have jurisdiction. And there will be local talent at stations where it's important, such as news, talk, and sports. You don't need local talent to introduce recorded music owned by global record labels. If the music was local, there might be a point. It's likely that non-com AAA stations will continue to staff locally, because members pay, not advertisers.
 
To make an example, iHeart has a 5 station cluster in Bakersfield, CA. Connoisseur recently sold a 3 station cluster in Bakersfield for $1 (plus a 25% cut of any future profits for 5 years). Connoisseur's cluster included a couple of successful music stations and a dying AM. I think it is safe to assume the cluster was unprofitable under Alpha/Connoisseur given that sales contract, so there's a fair chance that $1 is all they ever see.

What Connoisseur has been keeping and what it’s been dumping has confounded me. I don’t think much of anyone expected it to keep stations in rural Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, and South Dakota, but it’s odd to me that it dumped Bakersfield and Topeka while keeping Lincoln and Columbus, NE. I'll grant that Topeka has always been a tough place to make money, but Lincoln is, by pretty much all measures, much tougher. Even if it gets the waiver to buy all but one of the commercial licenses in Lincoln, it will barely get half the listening in that market. At least since FM took off, Omaha gets 40-55% of listening there, and almost nobody in Omaha listens to Lincoln stations. I don’t see how it raises rates as advertisers in Lincoln have generally been aware of that and pay radio accordingly. Topeka has a similar problem with Kansas City getting a disproportionate share of listening, but it’s nowhere near 40%.

That's another reason the smaller iHeart clusters would be hard to sell without the large markets. iHeart has spent 25 years cutting away at staffing, especially in the smaller markets. If you bought the iHeart cluster in Springfield, MO or Tupelo, MS or Davenport, IA, what are you really buying?

It wasn’t iHeart (it was actually Alpha), but a friend of mine looked at buying some stations. Alpha had a higher price than Connoisseur, but he ran into the problem that buying the stations meant he got licenses with no tangible assets. Alpha sold its towers, much like most every other major broadcaster, and the stations' building was leased, too. Rent on towers and the building would've run close to $250,000 a year. Seems like he concluded that about one out of every three dollars he made would go straight to rent and debt service. Needless to say, he didn’t go any farther before deciding to bail on that idea!

I'd guess a brand and a long-term tower lease with Vertical Bridge -- but no programming expertise, no respected local talent, and possibly no sales structure either, as iHeart has been eliminating local sales roles in certain markets.

Cumulus has also been reducing sales staff, or so I've been told. They’re always advertising marketing consultant positions, but a friend of mine who buys radio local said he stopped buying Cumulus after the sales staff got decimated. I was also told that, at one point, the receptionist position was eliminated, and sales staff was told to spend one hour per week at the reception desk and make cold calls.

No. The Internet can't reach everyone in the sense that an advertising agency can buy "the Internet" and be able to sell to everybody. As pointed out in another thread about the future of streaming, there are thousands of different streams of both radio broadcasters and Internet-only radio stations throughout both the U.S. and the rest of the world. If advertising agencies think they can negotiate with one (or a few) Internet streamers and that they will therefore get the national audience they sought with national radio buys, then they're only fooling themselves.

You’re not wrong that some people either don’t have or can’t afford to pay for internet service. The latter aren’t a concern to advertisers as they don’t usually have enough discretionary income to be customers. What you’re forgetting, however, is that internet streamers, or at least the major ones, contract with national agencies. TargetSpot handles (or at least used to handle) national ad buys for Audacy, AccuRadio, Slacker, and several other large streamers. iHeart has Katz, which represents more than just iHeart, and Townsquare Ignite provides its services to companies like SummitMedia and Steel City Media. Townsquare also partnered with TargetSpot at one point and may still. National advertisers at least used to work with agencies and distributors like TargetSpot rather than with individual streamers. It doesn’t get everybody, but it gets the largest ones.

Yes. The Internet does offer an advantage over broadcast radio but it is not getting the entire Internet audience in one shot; in fact, it's the opposite. Because of the myriad of streams and formats available, advertising agencies and their clients can really target their ads to the most likely buyers of their products in ways that could never be done through radio--the technology just wasn't there. I know that @davideduardo likes to talk about national advertising agencies wanting to only negotiate with one or a few buyers to get everybody, but that is not, and will never be, the case with the Internet.

The smaller internet streamers that don’t or can’t work with agencies and services don’t move the meter enough to be important. Not sure if it’s still the case, but even ShoutCast and Live365 used to offer service tiers that provided ads through TargetSpot. In other words, getting access to those services isn’t, or at least wasn’t, difficult.
 
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What Connoisseur has been keeping and what it’s been dumping has confounded me. I don’t think much of anyone expected it to keep stations in rural Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, and South Dakota, but it’s odd to me that it dumped Bakersfield and Topeka while keeping Lincoln and Columbus, NE. I'll grant that Topeka has always been a tough place to make money, but Lincoln is, by pretty much all measures, much tougher.
I would wager that there is still a For Sale sign on certain Connoisseur clusters.


It wasn’t iHeart (it was actually Alpha), but a friend of mine looked at buying some stations. Alpha had a higher price than Connoisseur, but he ran into the problem that buying the stations meant he got licenses with no tangible assets. Alpha sold its towers, much like most every other major broadcaster, and the stations' building was leased, too. Rent on towers and the building would've run close to $250,000 a year. Seems like he concluded that about one out of every three dollars he made would go straight to rent and debt service. Needless to say, he didn’t go any farther before deciding to bail on that idea
Yes. I looked at buying a struggling single station from the former owner's widow, and just the tower lease payment was more than the station's billings, not including utilities (which were paid by the tenant, not the landlord).

I don't know how you could rescue that without being willing to light cash on fire for 18-24 months while you build a new business around the signal.
 
The irony of what you quoted is that radio *used to be* what Pittman claims it is now, but he and his company hold a lot of culpability for the cesspool it's become in recent years. It's bland music hosts and rabid talk jocks. Nowhere in there do I detect the pulse of any "companion". The current generations find companionship on Youtube, or with podcasters like Joe Rogan, or down below 92 in NPR-land. Commercial radio is, with a handful of exceptions, the lowest common denominator.

Like I said, I do have young family members (in their 20's, that do stream much and still listen to radio (in their cars, in the morning).
 


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