INTERNET RADIOS

[theshadow]

I''m sorry "TheShadow", but you are being insane and a fool to promote illegal activity like this.

Call it promoting, whatever.

All I'm stating is that internet broadcasting has been going
on for years, folks broadcasting their thoughts (like podcasts)
their public safety scanner radios (like me), and music (like
hundreds and thousands across the world). Just like I said, some are
big into it, want to make a profit (like Club 977), and do it 24/7/365,
and probably pay all the associated royalty fees. Others could care
less about the big time and fees, but think it's cool to log onto the
Shoutcast server, call a friend in a foreign country, or
another part of the US and say "Dude, tune in to this on Shoutcast
and you can listen to my CD/Mp3 collection." This latter group is the
overwhelming majority out there. Again. most could care less about
any fees, or have any knowledge of them.

For the record, I DON'T have an internet radio station. I was just
SHOWING how easy it is to start one, without spending a cent.

As for DOWNLOADING music...well, that's a matter of preference.
Some choose to pay download fees, others do not. And I would venture to
bet that most are in the latter group. That's just "the way it is"
....some things will never change .....

 

[Robert Bass]

For the record, I DON'T have an internet radio station. I was just
SHOWING how easy it is to start one, without spending a cent.

The way you worded your previous post, could be interpreted by the wrong person as if you are advocating illegal activity. Just because people break the law, doesn’t mean one should go into such detail as your post did, on the simplicity of wrongdoing. In this day and age of frivolous lawsuits, it’s very wise to be cautious when getting on a soapbox to condone criminal mischief, not that such activity was wise to begin with.

R

 

[theshadow]

Just because people break the law, doesn’t mean one should go into such detail as your post did, on the simplicity of wrongdoing.

There is nothing "wrong" with internet broadcasting.
American laws can not be enforced worldwide (AND SHOULD
NOT). What might be considered illegal or WRONG DOING
in our country, is fine in others. Try as folks may over the years, you
can't police the internet, and never will. It's too far reaching and
encompassing. Royalty fees can be enforced in this country and
broadcasters can, and will be shut down (that is - IF they
cave in from their own fear of the government and "radio police"),
but what are you going to do with the hundreds of other internet
broadcasters in foreign countries that are pumping out the same
tunes as American internet broadcasters, and not paying one iota
of royalty fees? Again, I invite you to just check out how many
internet broadcasters are out there, again, using as an example,
Shoutcast. Do you honestly think each and every one in the US or
elsewhere is paying royalty fees like good little boys and girls. NO!.
That's the cold hard facts. We would love for this to be a perfect
world of do-gooders, with no rebels or rule breakers, BUT, it
ain't happenin'....and never will. And frankly I like that. It'd be boring as
hell living in a perfect world. You gotta' have some things to stir the
pot every once and awhile....

Now let me get back to downloading those 100 tunes off Itunes..
Oh my goodness...that's 100 bucks to the record companies!
Let's see, over here on Limewire I can get all of them for FREE.
Geez, I wonder where I'll get those songs? Tough decision....
Hmmmmm.....

 

[oaktree]

I have the sneaky feeling that this foray into "fantasyland" with "the shadow" is a mere waste of time, but here goes.

You come across as one who knows how to build a bomb and tells everyone, but feels that as long as you don't build one, the "bomb police" won't come a'callin'.

That's not how it works.

In other countries, there are also music licensing laws ... some even more difficult than they are here. Secondly, there are countries, and "free" ones at that (like Great Britain) who block Internet Radio streams to their borders to prevent those music streams from getting to the U.S. (The BBC, for example.)

Oh, sure, they can be hacked, and there are those who DON'T pay, as you said. But I do and I resent your saying that I'm a dummy just because I follow the rules in order to do the hobby or business that I choose to do. I do it legally and don't feel I should pay just so someone like you can, you think, get away with murder for free.

And don't under estimate the abilities of technology in getting caught. It happens more than you think. And it's quite nasty. Ever been caught downloading by a p-2-p network and got the nasty little letter that says you've been caught? You don't even HAVE to have downloaded and if you can't prove it (very expensive,) you're in for a $3700+ bill just to "go away." Or else ... it will cost you thousands -- right or wrong -- for you to "prove your innocence." You may be innocent until proven guilty, but try that in court. Welcome to America. You're presumed guilty until proven innocent.

Radio stations, 13,000 of them, are constantly monitored in big cities and small burgs for paying or not paying music licensing fees. It's not hard to find you. It's not hard to open a book and say, "We didn't get quarterly payments and no music log verifications" for the "radio police" to sue you.

And guess what, "The Shadow" -- ASCAP has N E V E R lost a court case and they'll be the first to tell you (speaking from close experience.)

On the net, going through Shoutcast to find whether stations like yours have paid or not paid is also quite easy. That little bot knows where your ISP is and where you're streaming from. They merely demand your ISP to shutdown and threaten legal action, the ISP merely comes to you and threatens legal action and you merely pay two legal bills. It's not as hard as you think.

I'd rethink the model and "do the right thing."

You're so far off base on this that you're about to get tagged out of this play.

I'd heed some kind advice, if I were you, as others have given you. What you're professing to do is dealing in illegal activity, and as one who pays more than I care to, it will only be a matter of time before you find out that the odds are against you.

Good luck!

 

[Robert Bass]

Yeah Shadow is missing the primary point here. The point is you shouldn't talk about how easy it may be to commit a crime. That only encourages those with malicious intent to carry on.

And I never said Internet Broadcasting was illegal. It is perfectly legal, so long as you pay the appropriate fees if you are playing music licensed under ASCAP, BMI and SESAC.

I used to have an Internet station on Live365. L365 charges a fee for broadcasters to stream licensed music. Those fees L365 collects, help the company pay the royalty fees. That's one of the great things about L365... They take care of the legal stuff for you. Just follow their TOS and you'll be fine. I have seen L365 shut down broadcasters who were misusing or abusing the service, so clearly L365 has sstrong enforcement.

Shoutcast is a whole different situation...

R

 

[jd]

I (like millions of others) have a computer full of MP3's from
Limewire. Did I pay for those?. Nope. Will I? Nope. If there's
a crackdown, I just delete them. Viola!

Free of charge, yes, but maybe not free of trouble. With any P2P program you better have good anti-virus protection. But even that doesn't guarantee safety.

Malware (mal´wãr) (n.) Short for malicious software, software designed specifically to damage or disrupt a system, such as a virus or a Trojan horse.
---definition from Webopedia

Besides the ongoing legal controversy over sharing, you run the risk of some really nasty "free" stuff on your computer.

 

[theshadow]

Ever been caught downloading by a p-2-p network and got the nasty little letter that says you've been caught?

Nope, because I don't use some waste of time like Napster, that caved in,
and became p whipped.

Radio stations, 13,000 of them, are constantly monitored in big cities and small burgs for paying or not paying music licensing fees. It's not hard to find you.

We're talking "internet" radio. And I am talking about folks broadcasting tunes to
the world from their home for non-profit, playing "dj" so others can simply tune in on
their computers and listen. What is so wrong with that? So what you're saying is that
if some young kid who is interested in broadcasting decides to play some tunes for
a hour or so on his computer via streaming audio to his friends across the US, or
in another country, that he or she should have to pay royalty and airplay fees like
a regular broadcaster on the AM/FM bands? I'm sorry but I find that ridiculous.
Again, I personally DON'T have an internet radio station, but I fully support those
that do. I also support their decision to run it whichever way they want to.

ASCAP has N E V E R lost a court case and they'll be the first to tell you (speaking from close experience.)

Hmmm. Maybe I need to tell them about the local manager of the
Captain D's who broadcasts Sirius Radio's Oldies channel in the
dining area of his restaurant for his paying customers, who happen
to enjoy the ambiance. Think he's paying? Probably not. Like
tons of others in retail and eating establishments.

I'd rethink the model and "do the right thing."

You were a lawyer for Metallica weren't you?

 

[Robert Bass]

What is so wrong with that? So what you're saying is that
if some young kid who is interested in broadcasting decides to play some tunes for
a hour or so on his computer via streaming audio to his friends across the US, or
in another country, that he or she should have to pay royalty and airplay fees like
a regular broadcaster on the AM/FM bands? I'm sorry but I find that ridiculous.

You may find it ridiculous, you may find it stupid, hell you may even find it to be an annoyance. But the answer to your question is "yes". You must pay a royalty fee to stream copyright music licensed under ASCAP, BMI and SESAC if you wish to broadcast said music on the net; whether its 15 minutes, 15 hours, 15 days or however long you wish to broadcast.

It is a law; you cannot avoid it without consequences.

R

 

[Robert Bass]

Here you go, Shadow:

The Dallas Morning News

Internet radio stations taking a 'Day of Silence' on Tuesday

Internet broadcasters around the country, including some public and commercial radio stations that broadcast online, are observing a "Day of Silence" – muting all music on their sites – to protest and publicize increases in the fees they pay record companies and artists for playing songs. The fees, set to go into effect July 15, are so high, they argue, many of them will have to shut down their sites.

Full story here: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ebradio_01bus.ART.State.Edition1.36e583f.html

R

 

[oaktree]

Ever been caught downloading by a p-2-p network and got the nasty little letter that says you've been caught?

"Nope, because I don't use some waste of time like Napster, that caved in,
and became p whipped."

Yes, well, uh, Napster is like so '90s. Welcome to the "new age," Shadow. Napster didn't cave in. The court system caved them in, and, if he gets its lawyer-laden hands on the likes of LimeWire, FrostWire, et al, it will happen again ... but more likely, it will happen to you as the RIAA and its evil twin, Sound Exchange don't care if you're young, old, kid, whoever. They send a nasty letter then make you, at your expense, prove that you didn't download. Deleting those toe-tapping mp3s from that drive of yours won't do the trick. Look up the initials "DRM." It stands for "digital rights management" and it leaves traces. Lots and lots of traces. It's an invisible fingerprint, a watermark, if you will ... and its on "legal" music tracks. Easy to find.

Radio stations, 13,000 of them, are constantly monitored in big cities and small burgs for paying or not paying music licensing fees. It's not hard to find you.

We're talking "internet" radio.

And you think we're talking Ginsu Knives, maybe? You think the Internet is just some black hole that nobody knows? You haven't received many "forced" updates from Microsoft, or spam mail, or junk without asking, have you? You could be rich if that were the case ... and I doubt you are. Do you answer letters from rich people in Africa, by any chance? They need your bank account...for an investment they'd like to share with you.

And I am talking about folks broadcasting tunes to
the world from their home for non-profit, playing "dj" so others can simply tune in on
their computers and listen. What is so wrong with that?


Oh, Mr. Shadow, sir. Please save this eloquence of emotion for the judge ... a Superior Court judge at minimal, then a Federal District Court in the second appearance. He/she won't move aside Copyright Laws of this great nation to hear your sniveling, wimpering and whining.

As for "what is wrong with that?" It's i l l e g a l without music licensing fees and these now exhorbitant Internet only "performer/label" fees, Keemosabe. Nobody disagrees with your distaste for them, but we must pay them. Merely buying those pieces of plastic called CDs don't cut it. You own the CD, you don't own the music. Sorry...life is a b**** at times. Get over it.


So what you're saying is that if some young kid who is interested in broadcasting decides to play some tunes for
a hour or so on his computer via streaming audio to his friends across the US, or in another country, that he or she should have to pay royalty and airplay fees like a regular broadcaster on the AM/FM bands?


Yes, sir, as Mr. Bass, a nice, usually patient man with great experience, has pointed out ... them's the laws, pal. Just like a regular broadcaster. Imagine that. This ain't no free play jukebox. And hey, it will only cost you a little less than $100 a month. You can do it...

I'm sorry but I find that ridiculous.

Well, Mr. Shadow, I found having to be in at midnight when I was your age ridiculous, too, but I did it. You'll be glad you did. Just know the newbie rules of webcasting before you spread your knowledge before those who know what they're talking about to help you out. Be appreciative of their time and wisdom.

Again, I personally DON'T have an internet radio station, but I fully support those
that do. I also support their decision to run it whichever way they want to.


And (asking for a show of hands...) no one here in this little room disagrees with you at all about your support, decisions to run whichever way you/they want to. This is the U S of A! Of course you are supported! Just play by the laws and the rules, pay those nasty little royalties and rock on!

ASCAP has N E V E R lost a court case and they'll be the first to tell you (speaking from close experience.)

Hmmm. Maybe I need to tell them about the local manager of the
Captain D's who broadcasts Sirius Radio's Oldies channel in the
dining area of his restaurant for his paying customers, who happen
to enjoy the ambiance. Think he's paying? Probably not. Like
tons of others in retail and eating establishments.


Uh, exsqueeze me, Shadow. But both Sirius and XM have "business plans" that include royalty payments that business pay starting at about $35 per month. Eating establishments do it all the time and pay the fee. Others who sign up for a "personal" license and use it in a business get nailed with a lawsuit, just like satellite dish owners in a sports bar. Nice try. You've learned something.

I'd rethink the model and "do the right thing."

You were a lawyer for Metallica weren't you?

No. Mr. Bass is but one of the lawyers. I'm just the bass player. Peace, out, dude. Rock on!

 

[Robert Bass]

No. Mr. Bass is but one of the lawyers. I'm just the bass player. Peace, out, dude. Rock on!

And if you think royalty fees are too high... just wait until you get my bill! ;D

R

 

[Robert Bass]

[banging head on wall}

Oh and yes, RIAA / Sound Exchange want royalty fees as well, for net streaming. How did I overlook that one, Oaktree?

[/banging head on wall]

R

 

[oaktree]

Life can be so confusing, sometimes, Robert... :-\

 

[Robert Bass]

Life can be so confusing, sometimes, Robert... :-\

So true.....

R

 

[GRAYWOLF]

Secondly, there are countries, and "free" ones at that...who block Internet Radio streams to their borders to prevent those music streams from getting to the U.S. (The BBC, for example.)

That is anything but "free"...

 

[theshadow]

Just play by the laws and the rules, pay those nasty little royalties and rock on!

Thanks for the insight, oaktree.

Chris Daughtry says thanks for the new mansion and Lamborghini,
and he'll be coming "Home" soon to enjoy it.

Music industry lawyers in LA and New York also say gracias
for making sure they can pay the mortgage on that 5th
Avenue condo, and Beverly Hills Mansion.

And Brittany, Paris, and Lindsay all give a big wet kiss to you
because they know next time they go into rehab, those royalty
fee checks will get them free massages and pedicures all day.

Rock on!

 

[oaktree]

Tell Daughtry that the car won't go over 90. We had it fixed in order to protect the next three CD investment.

The lawyers are writing up the papers for Mr. Bass to assume the mortgage in Beverly Hills, though he wants to make sure that the private jet is still part of the package ... he needs to be back in Dallas by sunset each night. And he can't give up the day job, but appreciates the mansion.

Big snaps to the rest... Keep us posted, and thanks for having some fun with us. Glad you're here on the board - Oaktree.

 

[theshadow]

Keep us posted, and thanks for having some fun with us. Glad you're here on the board - Oaktree.

Likewise.

Great discussion, even if we had to run through the
briar patch....

Peace, out!

 

[Megapsycle]

Better get on this folks! Contact your representitives or there won't be any internet radio at least as we know it now. The U.S. Court of Appeals has DENIED the emergency stay requested by webcasters! Unless Congress acts by July 15th, it is the end of the road for Internet radio. Few if any webcasters will withstand a 3X to 12X increase in rates, and paying those rates retroactive to Jan 1 2006.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

Bring back the "pirates!"