Internships: Big Time Rip-off

[MattParker]

From today's New York Times:

Unpaid Interns, Complicit Colleges

...Colleges and universities have become cheerleaders and enablers of the unpaid internship boom, failing to inform young people of their rights or protect them from the miserly calculus of employers. In hundreds of interviews with interns over the past three years, I found dejected students resigned to working unpaid for summers, semesters and even entire academic years — and, increasingly, to paying for the privilege. ...
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The article goes on to highlight how interns work for free and pay their colleges for the privilege. The college collects the money but provides nothing - except a credit on the transcript. No faculty, no course, no classroom, no lab facility. And the student is not getting the kind of academic experience higher education is supposed to provide; what does a "student" learn being a gofer?

The article highlights the experience of a WNBC (NBC4) intern, who got paid nothing (despite parent company GE rolling in cash and not paying taxes), and had to crash on people's sofas and floors in order to stay in New York. The article mentioned that in addition to providing free labor and living at his own expense a NBC intern had to pay $2,700 to the University of Pennsylvania; a Daily Show intern $1,600 NYU.

 

[Lee Rust]

Just like college sports. Profitable business plan.

 

[davideduardo]

what does a "student" learn being a gofer?

I learned enough go-fering for a year or so for free to get paid shifts and duties... eventually. And a few years later, I was in ownership.

Granted, this was some time ago; today the combination of liability concerns, labor laws and other regulations makes anything but an educational institution sanction internship nearly impossible... so that one alternative allows a student to be inside a station, network or related media business.

 

[MattParker]

I worked for free at the student radio station. I learned enough from that to become a student employee (paid but not a lot) for the university's public radio station doing local news segments. I learned enough from that to work part-time evenings and weekends (paid better) at commercial stations in the area and I learned enough from that to work summers for a network owned station in a major market (paid and on-air in the news department).

I never did an "internship" and I only paid tuition to take actual courses. I consider the money I spent on broadcasting courses pretty much wasted because I learned most of what they taught on my own. My advice: Be a liberal arts major and take advantage of your best opportunity to really stretch you mind. Do entry level work and get paid in your spare time. I notice the people who make it to the big time mostly weren't broadcasting majors and they weren't interns. They went to top schools, had demanding arts, humanities and science majors and did outside activities other than playing radio. If they felt they needed media-specific academic preparation, they likely went to a top J-school for a masters.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

I agree with the prevailing opinion. I had the choice to intern or not one summer. An internship was a 3-hour course credit, for which I would pay about $2500. The internship was unpaid at a major broadcasting chain. Furthermore, I would have had to live somewhere for the four month summer term. Price somewhere between $1000 and $2000 depending on how many roommates.

On the other hand, I could get a minimum wage job at a mom and pop broadcaster.

Making $5.25 sure sounded a lot better than paying $8.33 to a university every hour I worked. I haven't regretted it yet.

 

[SirRoxalot]

There's a big difference between the academic world and the real world. It's as big as the difference between "theory" and "practice". Internships provide real-world experience for people who wouldn't have any chance of getting in the door of anything bigger than a mom-and-pop.

Any internship requires supervision by faculty, and a commitment from the company to supply both training and evaluation. If you end up as nothing more than a gofer, you might want to look in the mirror at your attitude and your skill set. Most employers will let you progress if you display competence and interest. If not, you get stuck fetching coffee.

Mom & pop may give you the opportunity to try a lot of things, but you're still not getting to play with the big boys, or see how the big world really works. That may be worth the extra expense.

 

[davideduardo]

I never did an "internship" and I only paid tuition to take actual courses. I consider the money I spent on broadcasting courses pretty much wasted because I learned most of what they taught on my own. My advice: Be a liberal arts major and take advantage of your best opportunity to really stretch your mind.

That is such good advice! And the "stretch your mind" concept makes anyone better able to communicate.

I had a similar experience. I had dropped out of High School when I put my first station on the air. It was not until about ten years later that I had the opportunity to go to college. I decided that sociology and psychology were really about programming, so I did a bunch of business courses, some math and science and all I could get of psych, cultural anthropology and literature in English and Castillian Spanish. Of course, I did not qualify for a degree because I sampled so many different things, but the non-communications focus really helped me in many ways that a degree would not have mattered in.

A lot of times people, parents included, forget that college gets you prepared to learn and the real learning takes place on the job in the private sector. That rounded education is the best preparation for many positions (unless it's designing nuclear reactors, of course).

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

so I did a bunch of business courses, some math and science and all I could get of psych, cultural anthropology and literature in English and Castillian Spanish. Of course, I did not qualify for a degree because I sampled so many different things, but the non-communications focus really helped me in many ways that a degree would not have mattered in.

My broadcasting years took me away from the college town so the degree had to wait for a number of years. When I re-entered it was under one of these flexible programs for adults entering or returning and it offered a lot of room for "mix and match" course selections.

I was down to electives to reach the 128 hours mark. I could take ANYTHING! Freshman courses. The only restriction was that I had maxed out on the number of psychology courses they would allow to be counted toward one degree. I took some interesting "wild cards" and the best ever, the long-term most useful course of all: Folklore! To this day my b.s. detector is very highly tuned and reasonably accurate.

 

[TheBigA]

Internships are a great way to make connections for potential employment. It gives employers a chance to see your work ethic, and your passion for what you do. It's a great chance for the student to learn real world lessons. Every experience along the way is valuable, especially when you're a student. College is a 4 year program with lots of time for both internships and actual jobs. But it's easier to get an internship, easier to offer your services where there are no real obligations beyond the time you put in. Even then, FINDING an intership isn't easy, and the colleges have people who seek out and even create internship programs. I've been working with students who are simply looking for intership leads, not the actual interships, and those are even hard to find. Employers are looking for experience, and this is one way to get it.There used to be summer jobs programs, used to be "vacation relief." I did both, but they're harder to find now. You mention NBC, and they have unpaid interns, but they still hire pages. Those are paid jobs, but are usually drawn from the ranks of the interns.

In this world where there are way more applicants than jobs, it's really the only option for a lot of people looking to start out.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Our world has changed. When I was college age the only internship I ever heard of was doctors being interns. I grew up way out in the country so there were a number of things that existed that I never heard of. When did the internship concept as we know it today begin in broadcasting?

During my years of being in broadcasting, I can't remember ever being turned away when I walked into a radio station and announced I would like to visit. Most were generous in their access. The staff was equally as interested in picking MY brain and I was interested in THEIR operation. (Granted, I never tried to do that in NYC or Chicago. It worked pretty well in Little Rock, Memphis and Tulsa.)

I remember working at several stations where we had people that were regular "hang around" folks. Some were what we would later call groupies, others were serious about learning how to get their foot in the door.

In this day and age of corporate badges, security concerns, liability and injury concerns, and liability for implied wages-due, apparently hanging around a station without a formal internship agreement is ancient history.

 

[TheBigA]

In this day and age of corporate badges, security concerns, liability and injury concerns, and liability for implied wages-due, apparently hanging around a station without a formal internship agreement is ancient history.

That's exactly right. All the lawsuits and regulations have really changed the way people get started in radio. Used to be you could just show up as a teenager and sweep floors or be a go-fer. Not any more. The problem with articles like this one is it leads folks to demand more regulations or rules on how employers or colleges conduct themselves, and while that may seem good on the surface, it creates a chilling effect for the kids at the bottom of the food chain who don't care about anything but getting started.

Also, the education system really changed in the 70s. At one time, there was no broadcasting degree or college. There were journalism programs, funded by newspapers and other contributors. That grew into Communications programs, and then specific broadcasting programs for radio and TV. Now new media is a huge part of that program. Today, just about every junior college, small college, or university has some form of media program. They're churning out thousands of graduates a year into an industry where there's limited growth, and employees who don't want to retire or even leave to start their own media businesses. It clogs up the system, and that's why students will pay for experience.

 

[radiophiler]

It is different now, but this discussion brings back memories.

I worked at my college radio station for four years. I also took a one semester internship at the CBS TV affiliate on the advice of a faculty advisor who said, "You should get some TV experience. You might like it."

By outlining my college radio experience on my resume, I got my first part-time radio gig, which led to my first full-time radio gig.

My TV internship? I did learn one thing from it. I didn't want to be in TV. The egos of some of the staff were incredible. (Why were the sports and weather guys nice, but the news anchor and reporters ... not so much?).

Didn't get paid at the university station or the internship (early 1980s). Got a lot more out of being a student volunteer at the radio station than the unpaid internship.

 

[CompleteGame]

I own a broadcasting school in Atlanta and here are the stats for the last 150 students, dating back to 2008: 45% of graduates who interned for at least six months in anything (broadcast tv/radio, production company, cable) found full-time or meaningful employment (which I define as 25+ a week) within the next six months. Basically, almost half re-careered within a year. Again, these stats come from the teeth of the recession.

Lessons learned:
More than half of the 45% are at mom/pops.
The more important stat is that well less than 50% of graduating students are willing to intern for six months. You have to suck it up for six months.
There's not a damn thing wrong with working at a mom&pop. Is that worse than interning for the C's? I dont think so. Most of us on here are veterans of Class C AM and Class A FMs.
You cant cruise an internship. You have to have a strategy from the first day you get there. I could elaborate...
If interns are exceptional, many of the stations will ask you to continue after the internship ends, which is a sign that you can make it somewhere.
You dont have to be extroverted to stand out. You must, however, be quietly intense, curious and have a BS meter about the realities and your own abilities.

I tell my class the same thing every day: "If you knew for a fact that you'd be full-time in an exciting new career 12 months from now, wouldn't you make any (moral) sacrifice in the next 12 months to get there?"

 

[TheBigA]

I tell my class the same thing every day: "If you knew for a fact that you'd be full-time in an exciting new career 12 months from now, wouldn't you make any (moral) sacrifice in the next 12 months to get there?"

I agree and I think your success rate is impressive. Not that many college grads who major in broadcasting or media find meaningful employment in the field. It's all about dedication and, as you said, the willingness to do anything. That includes moving anywhere, put up with anything, and recognize that it's about making a personal investment in yourself. Forget about the employer. They have their own agenda. If you're going to achieve your goal, you need to do what's best for #1, and even change gears a few times during a career.